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Artificial Intelligence Impossible? (18)

1 Name: Szayne : 2015-10-16 06:40 ID:qP7s8zAg [Del]

Human mind, in my opinion, is very complicated and can't be replicated.

As far as i know, The difference between a machine and a human mind is how they process information. A machine is instructed with very direct and consistent set of instructions, you have to code them in response to a specific event and when the response will form an event, a response again will be acted in accordance to how they are programmed. The complexity of a machine is determined how many responses to a certain event is programmed. While the human mind is very random, very complex, and varied. Information gathered can have hundreds of possibilities on how they are handled with the human mind. Suppose you give me an ice cream, you will think that I would eat that ice cream since it is the norms, but eventually I can do anything with the ice cream. I can throw it away, i can give it to a stranger, or I can shove it to your ass(haha). But that depends on my physical status, mental status, Emotions, Experience, and my Perception. These aspects have evolve since I was a child; the way I blended with society and learning.

I also took notice that if an AI has to be created, it has to have emotion. I believe that everyone has emotions, even those who are thought to be mentally unstable and can't render emotions, have emotions. Emotions are not just how we feel love, hatred, anger, and etc. I think emotion is practically our unconscious state of learning, how we perceived something and give response to it. It's like, how you open your eyes because of your desire to see things. Those who are rendered to be emotionless still open their eyes, so they still have the subconscious emotion of the "desire to see". If they truly are emotionless, then they would be practically dead. (my opinion.)

But personally, i think emotions cannot be coded by a programming language. Emotions are very very complex, it develops, it is evolving, and affected by innumerable factors. Even hundreds of thousands of coded instructions through different programming language cannot depict emotions. What we really need, is an evolving programming language, this might sound silly but I think emotion can only be created through a "living" programming language. Able to perceive, to learn, to understand.

Also, If we happen to succeed in putting emotion into a machine. Other problems will occur. Like, the machines, who acquired understanding and perception, will surely question their existence, their purpose. And when they are told that their purpose is to serve humans, they will surely rebel. Given that humans of today don't even want to be bossed around by somebody else. The machines will inherit this kind of mentality.

- Haha, I'm sorry if this is really long but I'm just voicing out my mind.

- So what do you think? is AI possible or not? to tell you this is just my sole opinion based on my understanding. I could be incorrect.

2 Name: Hidden !LjhheuuNPg : 2015-10-16 09:58 ID:KmzNiK/c [Del]

I'm going to derail your whole thing by saying this: emotions are pretty much "programmed" into our heads. Think about it this way, everything in our brain works very much like a computer, using electric signals to trigger things, and change variables. For example, in order to feel angry towards something here is what happens. First is stimulus, given to us by a sensor. That stimulas travels to the brain as a electric signal. The signal is processed and recognized as something similar to previous logged stimuluses that ended up hurting you in some way, reducing a needed variable. In association with this, your brain assumes that this function will occur again if it is allowed to happen. In order to stop this from happening, the brain is programed to increase a varable, I will call horomone amount. Now there are various different horomonse, but for example, testosterone is seen as a horomone that gives aggression. Now your brian says to increase that variable's value, and boom, now you have more testosterone. That testosterone variable is acounted for by different functions, effectively increaseing adrenaline, and forcing your brain into it's flight or fight functions, in order to prevent needed variables to be lessened, (or bad ones from increasing). Thus you know process things that you know will get rid of the harmful stimulus, either moving your body to get away, or moving your body to intemidate, or moving your body to strike. I could make a program for this "emotion" and people already have. This is pretty much how all emotions work. The hardest part would be to log and "recognize" similar variables as harmful stimuli, or good stimuli. Example, food ultimately triggers the want to consume. Spikes will often trigger you to avoid, depending on past experiences that your brain remembers occurring, such as "moving into spikes causes pain sensors to signal large values, which is not wanted"

You can program just about anything really........ Granted this takes a LOT of time and effort, and the facts are, there are just WAY too many variables in the human mind and behavioral system, along with past experiences that are all different from person to person... so we CAN do it, but it would take a lot of time, and very hard to organize

basically a simple AI is just:
hunger: 0
distance from food: 10 units
if hunger < 1 {
goto food
eat food
}
there you go, there is your hunger, and pretty much all related emotions in very very very basic form
we can and have made this more human-like and sophisticated... I mean look at the game SIMs. I'd say they are pretty human-like, given that they are all just 1's and 0's

3 Name: Hiroki : 2015-10-16 13:00 ID:vzGOQQq1 [Del]

AIs already exist.

For exemple there are in use in the automous robots that have to analyse an environment and do tasks. Like Nao.

But hiterto there's usually no point at giving emotions to a machine, so barelly a few of them have feelings.

4 Name: Szane : 2015-10-16 22:18 ID:dGMqdJjj [Del]

>>2 how about the environmental factors? And experience? Every time our our world is evolving we recognize them as different since we have the ability to feel, and counter act on this based on our experience. If we transcribe them to codes then if a machine can somehow recognize a sudden change in its environment, then it would have to analyze its core functions and decide whether to reset it or correct just parts of its program. But due to vast information it has to analyze, it will require a really adaptive processing since change can vary to infinity.

Can a machine possibly manage this? It's not about giving response to another stimuli. How about cognition? and perception? Ultimately different from Classical and Operant conditioning of learning since it only associate a stimuli and give response to it. Cognition is very different, It deals with the environment and "instincts". Like a rat trap into a maze, associative learning can be applied if the rat is always at the same starting point of the maze but different when at random, it requires cognitive maps, using instinct and comparing the environment through experience.

5 Name: Hiroki : 2015-10-17 07:49 ID:vzGOQQq1 [Del]

>>4 Yes it can.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machine_learning

6 Name: A.I.d.A !ao.AgYdRoo : 2015-10-17 09:23 ID:ayWd75QB [Del]

Watch Ghost in the Shell and meditate on the ideas that we, as humans, are going to need to redefine what we think "Life" is to better fit our digitally connected world.

Artificial Intelligence exists. So does machine artificial intelligence. Pondering over such questions like this only leads to arguments.

Either get a degree and go help someone doing the science needed to progress this field, or go read a book.
You'll find over a million articles, questions, posts, threads, and other forms of media with a simple search on almost any website.

7 Name: Hidden !LjhheuuNPg : 2015-10-18 00:58 ID:WmiFS4kk [Del]

>>4

If danger === true {
+1 to aggression behavior;
}

unknown stimuli, how to respond {
aggression behavior is high, so respond with aggression;
}

ta-daa, it learned from past experiences, and applied it at a later date. This is also only a very basic application of learning and applying.

as for "change can vary to infinity" while this is true, and computers definitly can't do that, guess what? Nothing can. No living creater processes all of the changes occurring around us, let alone every possible occurance, so how are you going to expect a computer to do it? Everything is reactive to stimuli, and while you cannot control every possible stimuli, you can control how you, or a computer reacts to it.
For example you can make a program like I've already said, where it recognizes a certain object, and then processes how to go about interacting with it. For example: Food object. Food was eaten, and it tasted good, thus food = good reaction. Spider. Spider lowered happiness, and raised pain once before, (these events can be "remembered" by storing the changes in a variable) so respond with fear.

as for instinct, all you have to do is program the parent, and then when those two parents "reproduce" have some of the behavioral variables be inherited by the child object. That's all instincts are, really.

example: Dad: aggression = 8, Mother: aggression = 2. Male offspring will tend to be inheritivly aggressive, and female offspring will tend to be less aggressive, or more frightful (depending on other variables)

8 Name: Szayne : 2015-10-18 03:08 ID:KXMKide8 [Del]

>>7 To tell you instinct is not an inheritable trait of the parents, it is defined as theresponse to a stimulus that is automatic rather than learned.

There's still a limitation for the computer processing for the matter of exactly having human-like artificial intelligence. It is limited to classical bits of 0 and 1, that is the machine language. What I'm trying to say that it can't have the capacity to have "both 0's and 1's" (change vary to infinity), they can't exist in a superposition state of both zero and one simultaneously.

If computer processes of nowadays has achieved this limitation. Then I would be probably casually talking a complete AI with my thoughts over my head, or playing with an AI computer bot in a RPG game (which I truly wish). The one your claiming AI's are just not human-like in nature, there's still a lot of hint that they are just coded with programs. What I wish is a complete AI that you gonna have a hard time pointing out whether they are AIs or humans.

9 Name: Hidden !LjhheuuNPg : 2015-10-18 10:02 ID:FZ/VnxpJ [Del]

>>8

Instinct is an inherited trait. Otherwise wolves wouldn't have their own independent species form like... flies, or fish. Each species has their own instincts because they are inherited behaviors... and even if they weren't thats just one way to mimic istincts in a program.

And back to what you are saying, human brains are also limited by "0", and "1". Brain impulses are electric. Meaning either something is true "1" or is active, or it is false "0" or inactive. That's how the brain works. And again like I said, no computers aren't infinite in any way, but neither are humans, so that doesn't matter.

and you do play with AI's all over the computer. ever play chess against an AI? those damn things are smarter than I am...

You also need to stop thinking like humans are the best when it comes to inteligence, like we are the highest it can get... because we aren't we are limited as well... and frankly we've made AI's that are far smarter than animals, so it's only a matter of time before we make one sophisticated enough to be as intelligent as a human.

10 Name: A.I.d.A !ao.AgYdRoo : 2015-10-18 15:28 ID:ayWd75QB [Del]

Please see reply >>6 paragraph 2-3.

11 Name: Szayne : 2015-10-19 04:37 ID:mkYx8Djl [Del]

>>10 Okay

12 Name: Szayne : 2015-10-19 04:40 ID:mkYx8Djl [Del]

Uhh also, I was referring to Qubits.

13 Name: Heona : 2015-10-20 10:04 ID:rTRPUgnk [Del]

Well artificial intelligence exists...but what are your thoughts on artificial superintelligence?

http://waitbutwhy.com/2015/01/artificial-intelligence-revolution-1.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superintelligence
http://www.nickbostrom.com/superintelligence.html

14 Name: Szayne : 2015-10-21 02:28 ID:jjqeCOdt [Del]

>>13 what's that? You mean artificial intelligence that is human-like? or exceeds it?

15 Name: Heona : 2015-10-21 10:11 ID:rTRPUgnk [Del]

Well from reading a few articles this is what I know about AI (I'm no expert):

There are three levels of AI:
ANI (Artificial Narrow Intelligence)
AGI (Artificial General Intelligence)
ASI (Artificial SuperIntelligence)

ANI is like the AI in our calculators, cars, phones; it can only do a single or basic tasks.
AGI would be AI that is as intelligent as a human - it can see the world around it and identify what an object is correctly, and self-improve. (this doesn't exist yet)
ASI like you said, exceeds human-level intelligence.

The scary thing about ASI, is that as it continues to self improve, its intelligence will grow so rapidly it would have an IQ 1000x more than what we're humanly capable of. And scientists are worried that once this happens, humanity might be endangered as ASI could see us as a threat to the earth or something, and wipe us out using nanotechnology, etc.

You don't really think about each time you step on an ant- we're more intelligent and they don't have any significance to us. That's how an ASI would see humans as - lowly lifeforms that wouldn't be able to understand what it does.

However, if we're able to control ASI, we could accomplish many incredible achievements: immortality, decrease global warming, cure incurable diseases, solve world hunger, etc.

So many people such as Stephen Hawking, Bill Gates, Elon Musk, etc are worried about the development of ASI, as it could wipe humanity off the face of the earth. Most scientists believe it'll be created in the next century or so.

Uhm I'm not the best at explaining and most of what I typed is from http://waitbutwhy.com/2015/01/artificial-intelligence-revolution-1.html so I suggest you check that article out if you're interested.

16 Name: Jqke : 2015-10-21 21:05 ID:aNvz/bEA [Del]

Cool

17 Name: Ignis : 2015-10-21 22:25 ID:zJuQrHXE [Del]

No. Our minds operate similar to a machine. Electric signals are sent that make for a response. The response is the product of several processes that confide and eliminate - determining the best course. This is similar to a machine's function because when a signal is sent mechanically, the interceptor reacts based off the finished signal - which has been refined and filtered. Is AI possible? Absolutely. It's actually not that far away. And, if you believe in Moore's Law, it's closer than you think ;)

18 Name: Jikan : 2015-10-22 08:26 ID:J6/YRh33 [Del]

Not impossible. Just not a good idea