Encouraging a circlejerk. I assume you all know what it means, in your infinite wisdom about internet standards.

While I disagree with the OP of the screenshot in some aspects (like roleplaying in a discussion board. Why would that be acceptable anywhere.) and this topic has been covered numerous times, I am not without my concerns either

Have you all seriously not noticed the pattern, or attempted an alternate perspective? It's no longer a necessity or a matter of course to be total assholes to certain people, but a fad to completely shut down any dissent. Does that sound like anything familiar to you? Shutting down anyone who doesn't fit an extremely precise criteria?

Ultimately all online communities fall for this in some form; we've simply hit ours, and people need to be aware of that instead of falling for the same pattern. If there's anything to be said about this consistency, it's that people need to think for themselves a bit more often around here. Some of them instigate, but they're then followed by a dozen who contribute nothing but pressure by numbers.

That isn't winning an argument, if that was unclear. No matter how right you are, if they simply concede because a bunch of people call them an asshole, that's just conceding to absolute faggotry.

But this has worked so far, you might suggest. Do you want a forecast of where this is going, from my perspective? This is what I see happening, based on how it went down in other known online communities:

Our standards become increasingly strict. All of us adapt to them, because they are small changes to us. To a new member, they are completely absurd and asking of way too much for what is supposedly an open, anonymous, online community. They're ridiculed for what amounts to being a newfag.

Rather than open anonymity, the site functions more like a profile-driven reputation hierarchy. The more known members have blind support no matter what they say, even if they're fucking wrong. And nobody can stand up to them because they monopolize the standard by default.

It grows until people just stop coming. It's now only the "regulars" we're so proud of, and maybe a couple others without a sense of individuality. All of us think the site is fucking amazing because it only consists of people we chose to tolerate, but our numbers have dwindled to a paltry couple dozen. There is no diversity, and outsiders know it as a shithole.

We spawn our own shitty concept of sociability, the likes of the worst of reddit and tumblr. Arguably, those aspects combined.
Reddit's worst consists of "edgy" assholes who take refuge in audacity, citing the same phrase we're so proud of here: "It's the internet, get over it."
Tumblr's worst consist of a hivemind that gets unironically mad about even the slightest offense, sending waves of hate messages to quell disturbances rather than leaving it to logic alone.

I may have only recently looked around the site again, but with a relatively cleared perspective of it,
We are currently in danger of exhibiting both these traits.

Feel free to tell me I'm wrong.

That girl is clearly only trying to help and you do a screen-print of it and be a asshole? You need to be shot, seriously.

Yomoto.

Take your left hand, and smack yourself across the face.

I was technically on "that girl's" side in this post, except for one single line about RPing.

If you're so vehement on proving a point, could you at least attempt to read when someone's trying to defend your concerns?

It's scary how much we've learnt to tolerate over time..I say this because I've somehow manage to subconsciously ignore these kind of things, but, now that i think about it, it's absolutely terrifying. When was it that being nasty on the internet became normal? Why do people spout things without a second thought? Maybe it's to do with the fact that we're anonymous to a certain degree, that lets people say things without repercussions or second thoughts.

Perhaps a new standard aught to be set, the question being when and how.

http://dollars-bbs.org/suggestions/#1321824143

Some people (a majority of the regular members being among those) are indeed assholes. It's something that everyone else had grown accustomed to if not joined in. Long story short? This is the internet. I don't know of one site where people are bitches and assholes to each other, and troll are a common thing. If you get offended by habitual rudeness, then the internet isn't the place for you and I suggest you leave.

The link is titled, "I don't understand how mean some of the 'older members' here are" I suggest reading through some of the reasons of the rude to get the point. Basically, people get sick and tired of being nice to idiots who continually make the same mistake, so they decide to be a faggot to every newb who makes a mistake. On the bright side, it works.

>>5 Saying that "it's the internet, get used to it" was exactly one of the things Misuto was saying is not ok.

The key word here, like in many other things, is probably moderation.

Getting angry isn't forbidden and using swear words isn't the end of the world. At the same time being polite and advocating niceness doesn't mean you're a coward, too soft, or that you're willing to let people make as many mistakes as they please. Much of it has to do with personal temperament anyway.

So. Like it's said in the opening post, the solution might just be not jumping on any bandwagon and giving things actual consideration. There must be some sort of happy medium somewhere in there. Between being the Inquisition and a bloody daycare center.

It feels like, when Leigha posted that thread, that she didn't know Misuto knew of that thread, or what it's about.

>>7 Well, generally speaking, it doesn't really matter. Bringing up different points of views will make things more understandable to people with different perspectives. Hopefully. But, on a different note, what do you think about this topic of discussion? I'm sure we all have an opinion on this matter, and like >>6, I agree with moderation. Just something to think about, I guess.

>>2 Yomoto-chan, I know you think your trying to help, but your not. Your coming off as a troll and all your doing is making it worse. Please stop.

You guys notice how this subject is all anyone talks about on pretty much every board? Its like a revolution or something. Hmm.. I was gonna say something, but I forgot what it was.. Oh well. Misuto, if things were to calm down and people would be less.. Assholeish.. Then how would YOU control the mess it would cause when new kids come in and start posting anything anywhere? We all know its most likely what will happen. Now, im not trying to defend that we should stay strict, but what else can we do? God knows they don't read threads like the FAQ or "Read this before you do anything else". o.~ I almost typed Misuto-san haha.

As much as i hate newfags and the likes i have to say that i agree with Misuto. Yelling and swearing at them tends to only backfired in our faces because all they go on to do is make new threads complaining that everyone's being mean which only makes people yell and swear at them even more. But at the same time the newer members need to grow the fuck up. I remember when i was a new member on the site and i made one or two bad threads or would bump threads without knowing what "bump" even ment and would be corrected (sometimes rather harshly)and would apologize and get over it

>>5 I'm not sure if you're aware, but I've been here nearly as long as the site's creation. I was around when that thread was necessary - I understand full well the reason it was made, and why it was needed at the time.

I guess it needs a bit of explanation. There was a point in time, maybe a couple months to a year into the site's life, when it started getting flooded by weeaboos from a particular site. Everyone was generally receptive of the attention, but we had already decided to dissociate from the DRRR anime in terms of what we talked about here - there's only so far you can go talking about a single thing, after all.

They wouldn't stop. It was wave after wave of new members with preconceived notions about the site, and it was particularly around the time when DRRR was at its peak in popularity. Those who cared had to buckle down and get mean about it, to drive them off - because they were the sort of member who couldn't be reasoned with. They weren't here for discussion, they were here for a fansite. And they were just wrong.

So over time we developed a sense of harshness towards people who couldn't get that idea driven into their head, and we had encouraged others to do the same. And it worked - people that were willing to have intelligent discussion were welcomed with open arms, and we actively attacked those that tried to say we were anything less than a discussion forum.

Over time things died down. We stopped getting those members in droves, and we implemented the moderator system for the first time (yes, we had to deal with all of that without permasaging). The problem was, for all intents and purposes, solved, so a lot of us backed down and enjoyed the site. Others didn't catch on to the detente. They were too used to how we dealt with things, and for whatever reason, thought that hatred was part of our culture inherently. The moderator system, which was meant to solve the problem, seemed to only make it worse. They had nobody to yell at anymore - they had to raise their standards just to have a target.

By the way, as an aside, permasaging shouldn't be viewed as an insult, and I feel like it is. People are afraid to speak their mind because they'll just get shut down. We have a moderation system; it shouldn't be our job to call out every little thing, just because the moderators are silent. It is our job to tell them what they did wrong. Posting on the wrong board once in a while? Not really a big deal anymore. But we seem to like to pretend it still is.

That's what's happening now. We've driven away quite a few members who may have been a little silly, but not at all detrimental to the site. A little diversity is needed for a thriving community, but we seem to drive away anybody that isn't, well, us.

It's true, the internet is full of dicks and assholes. But that's the excuse you make when you have to deal with them, not when you're among them. The example I'm going to use here is 4chan - people often view them as scum, right? They shit-talk openly, are expressive and lewd... in fact if I'm not mistaken we've copied a few of their mannerisms. "OP is a faggot," "sage this shit," etc. etc.

But the hate on that site, if you actually look, is minimal. Everything is transient, and jabbing at newfags is light mocking at best. They don't have to drive them off unless they're just being completely fucking stupid. In fact, terrible behavior is commonly called out on there.
Their hatred is ironic, unless necessary.
The mistake our site and others have made is making that hatred unironic, and completely serious - we take things seriously instead of in stride, and our community has tightened up and become prudes because of it.

In fact, I would venture to say people have begun to misinterpret the thread you linked. The one about members being rude as a necessity. The thread's discussion clarified, at least at first, in no uncertain terms, that we mean no ill will toward the people that make mistakes. We were simply terse, not antagonistic.

Before, the sort of thing people would complain about?
"Hey dumbass, quit posting anime in the news topic."

The sort of thing people complain about now?
"omg read the FAQ you piece of shit I'm not explaining why you're wrong"
"hey everyone get a load of this dumbass"
"lol what a faggot"
"OP gtfo"
"spiderman"

It's as bang-bang says. The problem is the bandwagon. People seem content to just jump on the first impression they see instead of giving something any real thought, and that's what's caused this problem. It's what causes any site's downfall. Oftentimes, they get so comfortable with their practices that it just becomes standard to make fun of anyone who thinks otherwise, which makes it impossible for them to learn. But I don't feel we've passed that point just yet.

>>9 How would I handle things? On a case-by-case basis. Sometimes reading the FAQ doesn't help that much, despite our efforts to make it comprehensive. If something is quite obviously in the wrong board, like video games in literature, fine, OP is kind of a fucking idiot. If someone posts a concern in the suggestions board, maybe that's not so dishonest of a problem?

The fact that we're more concerned about where a thread is located than its actual content nowadays means something. On the art thread, all you see is nearly-threatening posts stating "you better keep your art to one thread." The main board is riddled with "this doesn't belong here." It's bordering on nitpicking. And the frequency at which it happens doesn't tell me that new members are stupid, it tells me that maybe we aren't clear enough about where we want things. I gave an example on the FAQ thread earlier, about how the definition of the suggestions board was still vague after all this time.

:3

>>12 Thats a nice name you have there, It would be a shame if it was.... TAKEN....

>>12 still wrong.

Have mixed opinions. I believe OP makes somewhat of a point.

But I stand in neutrality right now.

Gonna start out my thoughts here by saying that I strongly agree with >1 and >11.

The circlejerking needs to stop. I don't want to get called out for hypocrisy here, but even I can acknowledge and admit that I have circlejerk tendencies. However, telling the people to stop circlejerking isn't exactly gonna get the point across on its own: an example of this already occured in >>5, where Leigha attempted to lash out for Misuto for making this thread (which in all actually, is probably necessary as a means to discuss what ways to approach the issue). What really needs to be examined here is why is this circlejerking happening? If it didn't occur to this extent before but there's a spike in it now, what changed?

This is just my theory and anyone is welcome to add to or rebut it: It's no surprise now that BBS either lost a lot of its crowned members who were valued for their input and opinions or those such members just don't frequent this site anymore. While people will deny the correlation between "older members" and "respected members," there is a connection. That's not saying there aren't exceptions to the rule, but there is a major connection: they have experience. They have experience dealing with the daily occurrences that need to be called out, and they have experience with how things go and should go in order to make this place not just organized and intelligent but also fun. Newer members that side with their viewpoints look up to them: I was certainly one back in the days when posts by Tsuki, insert, Aya, etc. were extremely commonplace and a huge reason why I came back again and again. With the increasing absence of these members that kept order, people are trying to step up and take their place by using the same methods...although the results have been less than satisfactory.

The greater story here though is that with the leave of these members, their valued input also stopped. With those new and interesting posts vanishing, the site became (and I think this is agreed upon by most people here) boring. Instead of attempting to change that boredom by adding intelligent conversation to our threads, we chose the easier option: just do the dirty work. Yell at people that do things wrong. Internet the internet, if you will.

And to an extent, I'm still an advocate for doing this, though as >>6 said, the key word is "moderation." I don't flip my shit with every misplaced or duplicate post, especially when I can tell OP tried their hardest or if the circumstances are in OP's favor. To end circlejerking, people need to realize that they can be calm in a lot of the minor situations that occur on the BBS, and furthermore, they need to make their primary focus improving the site's community through improvement, not through selective gangbanging.

To close this post of mine off, I also want to apologize for my behavior the other night. I was having a really shitty day and I was in an extremely pessimistic and grumpy mood and quite frankly, I should've just gotten off the computer and made myself a mug of cocoa and just forgotten all of this shit, but I didn't, and I let my mix of rotten emotions and disappointment get the better of me. It's actually because of this that I want to help end this circlejerking in whichever way I can, because when I do it, it makes me feel miserable, and I know this feeling isn't exclusive.

We need to end this circlejerking addiction on the BBS, and this thread will probably become vital to doing so. Thank you Misuto for starting this off, because it's something that most of us circlejerkers probably didn't want to hear but desperately needed to.

>>5
Christ, you repost that thread like it's some kind of mantra or something. "Hurr, it's the internet, deal with it" does not equate to "I'm going to be an insufferable fuck." How hard is it to figure out the difference between "telling someone the rules" and "everyone call this dude a faggot"?

People were complete dicks because it needed to be strict. Now, like Yata said, everyone is going "OH, I WANNA BE LIKE THOSE VETERAN GUYS, I'M SO COOL" by imitating them.

Well, attempting. Failing miserably.

You see, they don't see it as trying to bring order to a site, hell no. They saw it as running a tight, hivemind ship where everyone must know the rules absolutely and that anyone who does not fit these roles needs to be called out and ridiculed.

We have so much sheep, we can probably start a textiles company right about now.

>>9
Wild guess? I'm willing to bet that he isn't going to shoot slurs and belittle them.

>>16
Shame that it's on random. Would have been really interesting to see more responses.

Fuck, you guys write a lot. I haven't had a shit-long post in so looooooooooong!

Okay, back to seriousness. We have two major fucked up problems that need to be addressed here. This is just my perspective though. Be aware as you read this that this is just my opinion, and why I'm such a bigot and bitch to people that I view as fucktards, because I'll admit it.

1. Okay, let's say we are polite and do tell someone where they went wrong. I've seen this happen, and I'm sure a majority of you have too. The OP will make a thread and mess up. Let's say they just posted a shit thread in random when they shouldn't have.

A good Samaritan figuratively walks up and says something along the lines of, "This doesn't belong here because Random bored is for a thread that doesn't belong anywhere else, not just a random post." This is great and all, and I respect the people that do that.

The problem comes in response. Too many times have I seen, "This belongs here because it's random and this is the Random bored." Well, that's annoying, but maybe explaining would help? Someone else comes in and tries to explain it, and saying that it's in the fact. Perhaps they even copy-paste the FAQ.

That's generally when the thread becomes a shitfest with OP bitching about how they aren't wrong, regulars trying to tell them that they are, other noobs siding with the OP, and white-knights trying to say that the OP was right or something like that.

Well, now we have a thread filled with people bitching and cussing at each other, and the people siding with the OP as well as the OP themselves refuse to sage their posts bumping it up to the top. Brilliant thing for people to see upon entering this site, right? This even happens on Main as well.

Well, mods jump in and sage the thread. People bump it off, life is good. Then someone in the last argument, generally OP or someone siding with them, makes a new thread about how mean we all are and they sometimes dupe this thread in several boards. We even may get a thread about, "You're mean I'm leaving *cries*".

Well, now they've broken the rules again and the members are getting pissed. That thread may turn into a shitfest as well, and mods will eventually sage it.

Either way, people get sick of it, which leads me to choice 2.

2) Someone posts a wrong thread. A more regular member jumps in with something like Sleep did in the picture. Many of the members are meaner about this, and results vary. That will turn into a shitfest as well, and virtually the same thing that happens with the first option. The difference is that people generally are too scared to make the same mistake twice, but you do occasionally get new threads about people bitching about us being mean as well.

Continuing to my point, there are the noobs that come in and jump in right with the flow without much problem. It's a magical instance that people probably don't notice, but it does happen. The fact of the matter is, in my opinion, that people only notice the people that fuck up, and the others aren't really noticed as a noob, but a regular member that's always existed.

I believe that this has caused an unspoken separation among us where there's the people that don't mess up and those that do. Since noobs generally fuck up, I believe that the other members see a noob posting something and automatically think "wrong". However, it is also within human nature to agree with people that agree with you, so if they see a noob post something that they agree with, they think "right". This then becomes a conflict because noobs cannot be "right", therefor they must be one of us. To summarize this and explain it better, those who agree with us or have been here for an extended period of time are one of us. Which is why no one has flamed your thread (except me but that's because I misunderstood and am too much of an idiot to read. I have no excuse.).

Continuing, anyone who hasn't been here for an extended period of time or don't agree with us are "wrong" by default in our minds because we like to believe that we are right, and the only people we'll listen to are those that we've known long enough to respect. I do not mean everyone, but I've noticed this correlation everywhere, not just here.

Okay, to continue. I'll end this with a brief summarization. There are two reasons for the cause of this. The first is that we have so many noobs fuck up that we automatically assume a noob is wrong. The second is that as humans we generally don't want to believe someone that doesn't agree with us, but if we know someone long enough we're willing to listen to them. These conflict and the end result is that noobs that agree with us become someone similar to someone we've known for a long period of time.

Now, I will be honest yet again and say that there is no psychological proof or studying that I've did on this. No sources, but I can say that I've seen this correlation in real life over an extended period of time. If you don't believe me, just look at the person who disagrees with a group in real life. People hate that person that doesn't agree with them, especially if they hadn't known that person for an extended period of time. I would know, it's happened to me on more than one occasion.

Long story short, people are fucked up and this happens because we are humans and by default, fucked up. This doesn't apply to everyone because there are those people that are able to step outside and view the situation logically, which is why it has been brought up.

Another note, people in groups generally change their habits to fit in. This is often not a conscious decision, but it does happen. That means that those that have been here for a longer period of time have psychologically changed themselves while they are here to act upon what their mind views as socially acceptable. This often includes agreeing with the people who've been here longer.

I've read that somewhere, but I can't remember where. I saw that when writing an essay and used it as a scholarly article for a source.

Either way- None of this is an excuse as to why I do anything. I'm just a bitch that tends to come here to release their anger which often comes out as snapping at people. Maybe I should start posting in the rage thread again.

Solution?

Here's what I do. I pay no attention to who actually writes a post, so I read everything with an unbiased opinion. If we can all read with an unbiased opinion and actually think about what's said, then maybe we can solve this.

On top of it, we should have a system of how to react to those that make a mistake. How about we are nice and explain how they messed up for a first offense, but if they do it again, then we can bitch? A lot of these mistakes are because people are expected to know something that happened in the past, even though they are new here.

On a side note, I'll be in the rage thread.

On another note, I apologize for >>5. I wasn't paying attention and didn't read the OP. That's no excuse, but can't we just agree that I fucked up and accept my apology?

>>11
Well, I would love to help in any way. Though I don't think there is much I can do at this point. A little bird told me that I should just "leave it to the more important seniors here".

>>17
It might just be me misunderstanding, but I wasn't hoping that would be the case. I'm glad it didn't turn out that way. Did something I say make you think I was hoping it would end up being dealt with profanity?

it's Sleepology again, unbelievable...

>>19 This is kind of what I mean. I didn't make this thread to call anyone out or spawn any kind of argument. Hell, I was temped to post this thread anonymously just to see what answers I got - no doubt they would have been 10 times more disagreeable.

But you're right in >>18. That's exactly why this sort of thing happens - it's how people think, when they aren't thinking. As you say, it takes someone stepping outside the situation and thinking about it logically to make any sense of it - but that's not easy. It's easier to just go off of what is acceptable and to not question the norm. Which perpetuates any problems we may already have.

It's nobody's fault, but it's everybody's concern. Don't take my post as an accusation to guilt-trip you into making a change; I'm just asking you all to be a bit more aware. That's the real solution.

We don't need a "system" of how to deal with posts, we just need to change our attitudes. If you want to hear how I deal with most of these threads, I look at them and wait for someone else to handle it unless there's something to be explained. If it's been explained and OP is just being an idiot, I wait for the mods. If they keep posting, I know it'll stop once they stop getting responses.

But that never happens. Everyone is compelled to incite more arguments at them, which does nothing but provoke them to do it worse. I mean, is it really that big a deal if someone shitposts? It's as bad as you make it, and by choosing to respond with vitriol to every single one makes it a huge fucking deal. From the perspective of the offending party, getting yelled at won't make them stop, so why would you do it?

I'm really not against vulgarity and all that, I'm just asking that we use discretion when choosing how to word things. Be more willing to think you or your friends are wrong, because you very well may be sometimes.

>>22 No one said you called me out or anything. I just admitted to being in the wrong because I wasn't fucking paying attention because it's the right thing to do. I was just saying that I hadn't read the thread when I posted >>5 and I didn't know what the thread was about. Even through my ignorance, I snapped without even knowing what was going on. What I did was probably the equivalent of me jumping in a tread and ranting about something completely unrelated. So, I apologized.

On a side note, I think your last sentence was the perfect solution. Be willing to admit and think that you may be wrong, because people who think that they are always right are self-righteous assholes that I have to deal with on a daily basis and it pisses me, and other people, off.

Okay, the last part was opinionated, but seriously. Be willing to think and admit that you may be wrong.

I get it, I dont have a problem with those who make mistakes, or those who mispost somthing, its those that are obvious troll.s like posting things in obvious places where they are not supposed to go, I saw some one create a thread in news called "Durarara" it had a picture and .... written in it. that was all, like jesus fucking crist grow a brain. but with that aside I dont have a problem with the newbies, they make mistakes but its those who are trying to be cunt that I disapprove of, I agree that the shit and cruelty to new members should stop. but somtimes it is hard to tell if they are legitimately new and unaware or just simply a big smelly damp, cunt.

This is why I hardly post anymore.
We need a new BBS.
Separatists movement, anyone?

>>25 I second the motion!

>>25 That's stupid. What would that solve, if we don't solve the problem everyone here has now?

It would just create a second forum with the same issues. I mean, leave if you want to, but I honestly don't know what you'd be proving.

>>24 Well yeah, that's where discretion comes in. Respond appropriately - if they're fucking assholes then I don't think anyone's going to argue whether being a dick towards them is called for or not. And if you're not sure, well, nobody's obligated to act harshly, or at all - in fact it's probably better to just ignore it at that point.

In general, drawing attention to a shitty thing will make it worse if it can be handled quietly.

Where are the ADMINS in all of this anyway? They can't just sit quietly with all THIS going on. Unless they have no interest in the matter...

admin, singular.

>>29 you have got to be kidding me. There's only one? no wonder the site is all messed up

>>12>>14>>29 May I ask how many Sleepologys are there? you guys have the same name but different tripcodes. Or is this just the same person?

>>27
It's not about proving anything, really.
It was just an idea.
Probably an elitist solution, but it was more or less something I just wanted to put out there.

I'm all for cutting the shit and trying to get this place back up. But I guess my years in online communities has made me kind of a cynical prick. I don't think it will solve any problems.

>>34 wow, persistent.

>>35
Not exactly, I'm not trying to start a pissing match, I respect Misuto too much for that. I just came to give my thought on the current situation.

>>36 it's not that. It's just people who are persistent in something they believe in deserve to be heard by others and be an inspiration

>>37
That's not really my intentions either.
I've just been in enough communities to see the same thing happen over and over again. The same arguments, the same proposed ideas, the same discussions. Nine times out of ten the community falls to complete and utter bullshit.
I don't disagree with Misuto at all, and being one of the worst circlejerk offenders on this site it's hard for me to say that, but something has to be done.
The idea of starting a new BBS is a radical approach to the problem, regardless of if it would actually solve something or not, it was just an idea I wanted some feedback on.
I got that, so the idea won't really be pushed any further.
I think we should all try Misuto's approach and see how that goes before we start thinking of calling it quits and starting over.

I'm going to try and be expressly clear here. I haven't read this entire thread, but I have read a little (just enough to get what it's about). But I'm fine with correcting new members. Most of the time I'll just tell them what they did and to read the FAQ, but when they try to white-knight or preach to others about how things are "supposed to be" when they break the rules like some self-righteous hypocrite, then they lose all chance of me not be a total dick to them.

>>39 Also, in the OP image, my reply was in response to post >>3.

>>40 ...I thought we all knew that already.

I don't really know what to say to this, most of the good ideas have been stated. I know we don't need another bbs. Eventually that one will turn out like this, and we'd have this all over again. If you want one all for yourself go ahead, but to just bring all of us over would be pointless.

>>41 Some might not, so I thought I'd make it clear, just in case.

.... ahahaha, oh god Leigha linked that thread to suto.

That aside though.

It's been mentioned before - but it bares repeating now: What most people consider the norm now was not an arbitrary reaction. It has a reason for why it came to be, and the reason it exists is because what we tried was ineffective during the current situation.

That situation is long past. What is the norm is an outdated concept that people have kept to, because the people who put into place never told them to stop - For that matter, they never even knew there were other ways. Most of the new 'regular' members joined long after all this happened, so they didn't know anything of before and just assumed this is what happened.

They couldn't stop or revert, because there was no era for them to refer back to.

We make a big deal about how older members do not equal authority. Every member is equal, and only the content of their thoughts matter. The older members did, anyway.

Thanatos, Misuto, Insert, Forte, Divine, Etc. The biggest defining trait is not that they are older - Its that they, as people, looked at situations more objectively and reacted accordingly. We started chill, and only when that failed repeatedly did that change. It was made clear that we didn't do it for maliciousness, but because it was what was needed to work.

Arguably, it is no longer needed to work. The shitty times that called for that stuff is more or less over now, so there's no reason for it anymore. Of course, threads like this have cropped up from other sources before, but they've been outside sources.

The same outside sources we conditioned to believe would complain about this at the time.

You can think of it this as an extremely mild form of PTSD - fireworks are entirely different from ammunition, but your ingrained reaction to the sound remains the same.

The words are viable and legitimate now, but our ingrained reaction to them remain the same.

However, BBS - the members that yata and the others enjoy remembering and referring back to - Have always had a single, very simple policy for anything.

If you want change, then you lead by example.

No one respects someone who will say "you should do so and so" but cannot follow what they preach. When we saw harshness was needed, we led by example. When we saw boards needed to stay bumped to remain clean, we led by example. I'd like to think that any kind of respect that any member has gained in this site has less to do with their membership date and more to do with their actions and the content of their ideas.

To be blunt and clear, in case Misuto's verbose kindness obfuscated something for someone...

We want this shit to stop. It's outdated. It's arguably unneeded.

And we are not some disconnected hierophants who make this thread or say these things like they're passed down from divine dictate for people to follow.

Like with everything we do, and everything we've done, the change we want to see - We will lead by example.

As noted, several of the members who used to constantly be around to do this don't hang around much anymore. We're not going to be right on time to all the threads. However - This is the gauntlet being thrown down.

It's no longer needed. As we were the ones responsible for creating it, we are the ones responsible for reforming it. Cruelness will sometimes still be needed, but it is by no means something that should be needed often. Not at this point.

We've gone long enough to try nice again.

also, OP in the image was a faggot. I would have said as much if I was there.

... Also OP of thread is a faggot. faggotsuto.

"Like with everything we do, and everything we've done, the change we want to see - We will lead by example." -Ayanavi, Dollars

I think I might have to legitimately quote this on the wall of my room. In a general perspective, it's what the world/everyone need see.

Navi has been made into a quote. Thread derailed.

Me feels like we're just repeating ourselves now, and me reads everything so me thinks that me is right.

Thread rerailed. Listen to Navi and stop repeating ourselves because that's lame.

On a side note: OP is always a faggot, no exceptions.

You all smell. Nice thread.

On another note. There is something that has been bugging me for a while now. The chat. I feel that perhaps if it wasn't actually linked to this site, we probably won't have as many people making threads bitching and moaning about it. But on the other hand, we'd probably just get a load of "omg wheres the chat :o" threads instead..

>>48 There's a thread called "The Chatroom isn't Ours Problem" in suggestions if you want to bump it up with your opinion.

Okay, so I've taken the time to read this whole thing, and I legitimately agree with all/most of it.

Face it,everyone who posted here has circle jerked. After awhile it has become the norm on this site to run around with our arms flailing like a wacky arm flailing inflateable tube man yelling "OP'S A FAG!" and declaring our rightousness like we feel the need to.

And I never realized how wrong we are to do it.

And I'll admit it,I've circlejerked and Spidermaned threads just because I saw the (shall we say) "Higher up" or "Popular" Dollars such as yata,hatty,sleep,chrome,and people like them doing it just because I respected them and thought "Maybe I could be part of those people synonomous with power here" and "Maybe poeple will respect me and look up to me then to." I respected them and saw them as kings who refused crowns but wore them anyways. Alot insisted that they were'nt powerful or popular but they were and I saw that as modesty and went ahead and respected those who did like they did. I called OP a fag,posted copius spidermemes,and called out failtrolls instead of calmly and casualy referring op to the right source/place. It was wrong and I was wrong.

And honestly,When Misuto said that if she posted anonymously she would have gotten called out,she was right there too.

(I'm probably just reiderating this whole thread but felt the need to say my share./endcat)

>>50 Leigha called suto out even with a name.

No I am not letting that drop, it was funny as shit.

Misuto's a dude, Celty.

God, that's a lot of repetition. The thread's needed though. I agree with most/all of this here. I'm sure we've all circlejerked, for the most part, but yeah. Really does need to go out the window. I remember when I first got here, I was scared shitless of BarabiSama and sleepology and the other people here, because I was gotten onto once, and saw it happening a lot. I almost didn't come back, and it's probably why I don't post everything I'd like to. Even now, I am still kinda wary of them jumping my ass about something, whether I posted it wrong or worded it the worst way possible, or simply because they disagree, although the last concern is probably not going to happen, at least not from them.

So yeah, the circlejerking is definitely an issue that needs to stop. Even if the people who started it have nothing to look back to, they could turn to other sites who are currently not doing it, if there are any, and do like they are doing. Of course, it seems as if it would simply be easier to just stop before they do it, and remember this thread.

If this makes any sense... And now there is more repeating.

>>48

Well, that is one thing I'm trying to get fixed by the chat my friend and I've been working on.

"Encouraging a circlejerk. I assume you all know what it means, in your infinite wisdom about internet standards."

No. No they did not know what it means.

I'm going to be laughing my ass off every single time someone fucks up the use of this word on this site for the next couple of weeks.

>>56
Of course they don't know what it means.

The part of the problem related to the last bandwagon still exists, regardless. Instead of joining spidermanning and bashing op, people are now trying to call out circlejerking, regardless of whether they're actually right or wrong.

That said, I wouldn't be surprised if people keep doing as such considering how quick others are to agree with someone.
Hopefully that problem will diminish, but I doubt it will any time soon.

>>58 laughing sO HARD right now plz someone hold my sides

I - just

oh god
please re-read her post
"I'm going to be laughing my ass off every single time someone fucks up the use of this word on this site"
"fucks up use of this word"
"fucks up"

Holding your sides and mine >>59

Posting to signify that I agree with faggot OP.

I haven't been around much lately, but I've tried curbing the douchebagginess of my own posts over the last 3ish months. Best of luck to the rest of you :P

>>57 I never was one for Spidermanning, but lets face it... If OP's a faggot, OP's a faggot. No way around it, really.

>>62 Hay if you can't handle being patient, then you shouldn't be policing the site in the first place.

>>63 What do you mean, if I can't handle being patient?

>>64 Do you not know what patience means or something?? There's such thing as a dictionary or GOOGLE for a reason.

>>64 Exact what I mean.
"but when they try to white-knight or preach to others about how things are "supposed to be" when they break the rules like some self-righteous hypocrite, then they lose all chance of me not be a total dick to them."

I've seen many people handle these situations without resorting to being a jerk. If you can't then you obviously shouldn't, that's what I meant :I
Not that I'm saying you can't be nice and calm and patient. I'm sure you're perfectly capable of it. But yeah it's not like your posts reflect that so what can I say? (・ω・)

If you notice, I'm not nice to anyone, new or old. If most people are stupid enough to not see the above topics needing to be read, then why should I bother when they won't?

If they bother to read proper posts, I normally don't have to tell them off, and thus we don't have a problem at all.

You all bother every single day to bump it, they should bother every single day to read it.

>>66 If they're going to be a hypocrite, I'll call them out on it. It's like society. If you're being a douchebag, most people may just try to be polite or ignore you, but there's always someone who's going to call you out for being an asshole. And if someone is going to decide that the rules don't apply to them or they can do what they want "just because", then they deserve what they get.

Now, I can be completely reasonable. If someone makes an honest mistake, fails to find a thread after searching first, or something, I'm almost always cool about it. I also point them to the FAQ so that they not only know what they did, but if they have a question, where they can find most answers.

Now when people want to say "You guys are dicks, so I'm leaving", it does agitate me. If they were going to leave, they would have done so. When people post that shit, it's because they want attention, and I'm going to call them out for being an attention whore. When they act mature, they'll get a mature response.

>>56 Oh my fucking god

Look, if y'all idiots didn't understand in the first place you can tell me so I can rephrase in a more colloquial manner, jfc

A circlejerk is when you promote each other blindly and jump on a fucking bandwagon of "we're all awesome and right", it is not a catch-all for "acting mean." Where in the nine circles of hell they got that idea, I haven't the slightest.

My point wasn't "everyone be nicer!" nor was it "being a jackass is fine!" and if you think it was either of those you need to do what I told Yomoto in >>3

I said to exercise your fucking brains. If you're gonna be an asshole, you better damned well have a good reason to back yourself up! Same goes for if you call someone out on being an asshole - you better have a damned good reason to defend whoever they're targeting.

The keyword here is reasoning. People aren't doing it individually, and it's the root of most problems related to mob mentality.

I was busy this weekend so I was just informed how wrong people were by Navi, because she thought the irony of this thread was hilarious. Can you not.

To add on to this, I feel like I have to reiterate something else:

There is nothing wrong with people acting like jackasses when they have a good reason to. Once again, and I've said it like four different times including in my last post, this is not a call for niceness. It's a call for rationality.

Since we're all repeating ourselves, I'd like to summarize.

Definitive:
Circlejerking- (v)everyone agreeing to what one ass-hat says because you agree with that ass-hat, and then everyone decides to be a douche because they all think that they are right and everyone that disagrees is wrong. The only people allowed to disagree are the regulars, older members, and moon warriors. No one fucking knows why.

Oh hey! Let's steal Navi's definition, "A circlejerk is when you promote each other blindly and jump on a fucking bandwagon of "we're all awesome and right"."


Now that you know what it is, let's summarize the rest of this thread. You're allowed to be a douche if the person severally fucks up, but you have to fucking be willing to stand there and think, "hmm... Maybe I'm the wrong one?" Just because the member is newer doesn't mean they are wrong. Just because the member is a regular or older doesn't mean they are right. Take a long fucknig time to think about this before being an asswipe, but remember that the morons still might deserve it. You can't take a shit on everyone who disagrees with you.

On a side note, I can't be the only person who thought of a bunch of guys sitting in a circle and jerking off the guy to his right, can I?

Let's check urbandictionary on this.

Glad to know I'm not alone.

>>71 That was my definition :c

But yeah that's basically where the term comes from. Literally a circle of people jerking each other off, making each other feel great but not realizing how fucking stupid they all look from the outside.

I feel like I need to clarify my stance, ass after reading >>69, I feel as though I may have been misinterpreted. I'm aware circlejerking in this thread is used to mean members attacking someone because _____________ with no attempt to inform the violator of what they did wrong or show them where to find the answers to questions or misconceptions they may have. It's the mob mentality of "He's an older member and he's being a dick, so I'll be a dick".

My stance, however, is that I will not be nicer for no reason. If I've been a dick in the past, I felt it was only necessary and I always attempt to redirect them to the FAQ (as well as if I saw that someone else handled a problem, I didn't chime in as it was being taken care of. This, however, did end up in my being apathetic to circlejerking). That's how I've done things, and it seems to work, so I'll continue.

Uh.. so its kinda like propaganda?

>>73 Yeah, I wasn't directing it at you. My last post was at things like >>56. What you said is more or less what I expected, really. It's the people that feel the need to be needlessly rude, especially when they're wrong, that need to step back and think.

>>72 Holy shit, I fail at life. That is what I get for not paying attention.

>>71 Misuto* not Navi cuzz I fail at life.

>>77 While I didn't imagine it was entirely at me, I did feel that Imay have not been entirely clear.

Wow... This is still going?
I don't know whether to applaud the OP, or wait a moment until after I read it all...
Nah, I'll just applaud.

>>80 You should read it all. Part of my point was that people jump to conclusions without considering everything about it first.