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The Things You Say (23)

1 Name: Crossark : 2015-09-08 14:49 ID:Ei7ZgUE4 [Del]

This is a thread for anything you've found extremely useful to be able to reference, whether it be an excerpt from a novel, a quote from a figure, a poem you read once in eighth grade and you're more paraphrasing than quoting verbatim, or some graffiti you found once under a bridge. Hell, I'm not against you putting down song lyrics, as long as you do so because of the content of the lyrics selected and not because they're easily shouted at someone in a street protest.

The quotes can be chosen for any reason, but I'd really like to hear why you chose it (what are the parallels with your experience of the Universe?). Analysis can range from, "I just find it to be a catchy thing to convey this underlying idea," to a look at how it applies to different scenarios. Basically, it's English class; BS your way through if you need to, but at least give SOME analysis.

For my starting quote, I want to exhibit the poem "Ithaca" (this is the translation I first came to know; click here for the commonly accepted version) by Constantine P. Cavafy.

I found this piece while reading Paolo Coelho's The Zahir. It is located as one of five - six, including the dedication - introductory pages at the front of the book. As I read the poem I found it quite plain, but, having read the back of the book, I assumed I would find clear connections later on. However, the last three stanzas (I'm not a poetry person usually -- does that term apply to a poem with irregular separation, such as this one?) struck something deep inside me. It seemed that the speaker had almost begun to talk about Ithaca more as a person than just a homeland, and I thought back on the first person I loved. Those three stanzas were like a mentor telling me what to do about that person.

As I read back through the poem, I noticed, too, that the earlier stanzas are reinforcing this. I certainly wouldn't have thought that about them on the first read. They seemed like flavor text, or something thrown in to cement the reference to the Odyssey. But they're also instructions on what to do when you find your "Ithaca", whether it be a person, place, thing, or ideal. The speaker warns us against fear living, because you will only encounter hardships if "you carry them within your soul, / your soul sets them up before you." He tells us not to rush Ithaca, but instead to do what there is to do along the way, leaving only Ithaca for you to seek when you are done. Most importantly, Ithaca has redirected your search for her so that you may find more of your own potential; this is her gift to you.

The part I quote most from this is definitely the one I paraphrased in that last sentence:
"Ithaca gave to you the beautiful journey; / without her you’d not have set upon the road[...] / [S]he has nothing left to give you any more."


This is the concept I most often have to remind not only those around me but myself.

2 Name: Crossark : 2015-09-08 17:15 ID:Ei7ZgUE4 [Del]

Bump

3 Post deleted by user.

4 Name: Crossark : 2015-09-09 18:24 ID:NjXkegdL [Del]

Aww, where'd you go, other person?

5 Name: Crossark : 2015-09-11 22:22 ID:Ei7ZgUE4 [Del]

bump. I really want to see someone else's answers.

6 Name: The Captain : 2015-09-11 22:52 ID:RMPdkTd6 [Del]

This is from the movie, "The Great Dictator" by Charlie Chaplin. His speech should be heard all over the world in my opinion.

The Great Dictator's Speech
I’m sorry, but I don’t want to be an emperor. That’s not my business. I don’t want to rule or conquer anyone. I should like to help everyone - if possible - Jew, Gentile - black man - white. We all want to help one another. Human beings are like that. We want to live by each other’s happiness - not by each other’s misery. We don’t want to hate and despise one another. In this world there is room for everyone. And the good earth is rich and can provide for everyone. The way of life can be free and beautiful, but we have lost the way.

Greed has poisoned men’s souls, has barricaded the world with hate, has goose-stepped us into misery and bloodshed. We have developed speed, but we have shut ourselves in. Machinery that gives abundance has left us in want. Our knowledge has made us cynical. Our cleverness, hard and unkind. We think too much and feel too little. More than machinery we need humanity. More than cleverness we need kindness and gentleness. Without these qualities, life will be violent and all will be lost....

The aeroplane and the radio have brought us closer together. The very nature of these inventions cries out for the goodness in men - cries out for universal brotherhood - for the unity of us all. Even now my voice is reaching millions throughout the world - millions of despairing men, women, and little children - victims of a system that makes men torture and imprison innocent people.

To those who can hear me, I say - do not despair. The misery that is now upon us is but the passing of greed - the bitterness of men who fear the way of human progress. The hate of men will pass, and dictators die, and the power they took from the people will return to the people. And so long as men die, liberty will never perish. .....

Soldiers! don’t give yourselves to brutes - men who despise you - enslave you - who regiment your lives - tell you what to do - what to think and what to feel! Who drill you - diet you - treat you like cattle, use you as cannon fodder. Don’t give yourselves to these unnatural men - machine men with machine minds and machine hearts! You are not machines! You are not cattle! You are men! You have the love of humanity in your hearts! You don’t hate! Only the unloved hate - the unloved and the unnatural! Soldiers! Don’t fight for slavery! Fight for liberty!

In the 17th Chapter of St Luke it is written: “the Kingdom of God is within man” - not one man nor a group of men, but in all men! In you! You, the people have the power - the power to create machines. The power to create happiness! You, the people, have the power to make this life free and beautiful, to make this life a wonderful adventure.

Then - in the name of democracy - let us use that power - let us all unite. Let us fight for a new world - a decent world that will give men a chance to work - that will give youth a future and old age a security. By the promise of these things, brutes have risen to power. But they lie! They do not fulfill that promise. They never will!

Dictators free themselves but they enslave the people! Now let us fight to fulfill that promise! Let us fight to free the world - to do away with national barriers - to do away with greed, with hate and intolerance. Let us fight for a world of reason, a world where science and progress will lead to all men’s happiness. Soldiers! in the name of democracy, let us all unite!

7 Name: ooooooh : 2015-09-11 23:42 ID:rOlxjRsi [Del]

Well I made this up on my own and I called it "Inequality Rant" I also posted it on the "Personal" Page, but whatever. Read it, don't read it, do what you want:


Just because of our sex, just because of who we are as human beings, means that we, as women or men, are belittled and looked down upon or seen as superior to others. Physically we can't change anything, we can't easily change our sex, we are all born the way we are.

But can we change what has been "determined" by society for centuries upon centuries? "Women need to be protected," "women shouldn't fight for themselves," "women can't walk alone anywhere because they can be raped." In court, women are only counted as 1/2 a witness, we're not even seen as a whole person, only half of a person. The witness of two women are equal to the testimony of one man. But no, in society's eyes, "men don't need to be protected," "men are allowed to learn how to fight and fend for themselves," they are allowed to walk alone without a chaperon. "Men can't be raped," and it's okay if something happens to a male, since they can protect themselves.

NO. Men CAN be raped, women CAN fight for themselves, but the world goes around and around and around unaware of the personal inequalities each sex faces every day. Men are expected to excel at sports; women are expected to excel at cooking or doing the laundry; men are preferred as they have "higher intelligence"; women shouldn't go into the medical field, they need to stay home and take care of their children. I'm not saying that each and every person should not take care of their responsibilities, whether it be their child, their commitment to sports, or their current job. I'm saying that you should take a step back and just observe. Observe yourself, those around you. What is the first thing that comes to mind when a man does something like wear pink and shorts shorter than knee length; what do you think when a girl has "boy-length" hair and isn't afraid to tackle someone or play sports roughly instead of inspecting her nails? How do people whisper and mock someone behind their back when a boy likes cooking or fashion products, or is seen near an alley; when a women is seen burping out loud, with their legs not together while sitting on a chair, slouching, and a tattoo on her arm?

School:
PE teacher: "A boy's goal in soccer counts as one point, but a girl's goal counts as two."

Boy to friend:
"She's weird, she's a girl but can't cook and she likes to play sports."
- All of these things, I've heard personally. I've watched how someone will compliment someone, then as soon as they are out of earshot, turn to their friend and criticize everything they did that was "out of society's norms."

You see these things every day whether you are aware of it or not. I'm not saying go up to your PE teacher and threaten them to give boys more points in a sport. I'm just trying to say that I wish, I truly wish that people would stop this inequality, they would open their eyes, to what is really happening. It begins with the generations before us. The generations of rules and regulations, of society's strict beliefs subconsciously drilled into them; then them turning it around and forcing it on us as was done to them. We see it at school; we see it when our parents force us into sports or learning how to cook or not being allowed to do something just because of our sex; we see it on television; we see it in our lives. But do THEY see it? Do THEY know what they are truly doing?

But what makes us different? What makes US not THEM?

Well, we are the new generation.

8 Name: Leena !Uw.mzAFfos : 2015-09-12 00:32 ID:i5dl+Fgx [Del]

Mine, for some reason, would have to be from an email I got a couple of weeks ago (haha, if you're reading this, I hope you don't hate me for this) "This isn't goodbye, so please wait for me. We'll meet again." It always makes me think of one of my stories which I haven't quite started yet, where one of the main characters tells the protagonist something like this as she basically disappears forever and loses her soul/sentience. I'm not saying this person is going to die or disappear (I hope not XD) but it still inspired me to write that scene, 'le~!

9 Name: Crossark : 2015-09-13 14:02 ID:Ei7ZgUE4 [Del]

I'm liking these!
>>6, is there anything in particular from the speech that you find yourself quoting most? What part of it sticks out most to you?

>>7 Rants are great! Glad you were okay posting it on here. Hopefully this community is some sort of safe haven from what you described therein.

>>8 I'd love to read the story when you do get around to writing it. Often, I've found, you just need to get the first words out.


Anyway, since there have been a few more selections, I'm going to add one more -- "Ozymandias" by Percy Sehlley (in its entirety):

I met a traveler from an antique land,
Who said--
"Two vast and trunkless legs
of stone
Stand in the desert. Near them,
on the sand,
Half sunk, a shattered visage lies,
whose frown
And wrinkled lip, and sneer of
cold command
Tell that its sculptor well those
passions read
Which yet survive, stamped on these
lifeless things,
The hand that mocked them and the heart
that fed.
And on the pedestal, these words
appear:
'My name is Ozymandias! King
of Kings!
Look on my works, ye mighty, and
despair!'
Nothing beside remains.
Round the decay of that colossal wreck,
boundless and bare,
The lone and level sands stretch
far away."

I memorized this poem at the beginning of the school year in order to write it on my first World History test. This was in part because we had covered Egypt largely during the unit, but it was also a preface to the rest of the course because of the themes the poem expresses. Shelley wrote this poem following the announcement of the uncovering of the Younger Memnon, based upon the account of Diodorus Siculus of what was written on the statue's pedestal. The poem has a major focus on wonder and grandiosity, and seems to suggest that this is folly. However, it hints more at Ozymandias's own hand in the deterioration of his empire -- that he had as much a part in it returning to the "lone and level sands" as he did in constructing it in the first place. Because of this, it is more of a cautionary tale, warning the reader against becoming so caught up in what they do that it becomes all they are, for doing so would surely mean disaster at the sight of any minor upset.

I usually find myself quoting this in discussions about GPAs and college applications. My friends tend to get so caught up in maintaining a good outward appearance that they forget to look inward, and I know many who have been rejected by the colleges they wanted simply because they had no depth. Of course, their plans have come to nothing, and it seems like the end of a long-standing civilization, such as the one in the poem. They then become the traveler the speaker of the poem once met, who lived in the shadows of the past for some time before somehow actually travelling in order for this exchange to happen in the first place.

These travelers, through losing their greatness, have set out on their "beautiful journey", and will one day reach their respective Ithacas should their souls not set up before them the idea of failure.

See, I told you this was basically just English class.

10 Name: The Captain : 2015-09-13 21:02 ID:RMPdkTd6 [Del]

>>9, My favorite part of the speech is the 3rd paragraph. Talking about how technology has brought us numerous happiness but also despair. How we have let it control us in a sense. And unity being a big part of the stanza, we should all let go of the past and move on. Sadly, this world is too far gone in my opinion. The speech overall invokes a feeling of strength and brotherhood, which we should all aspire to.

11 Name: Crossark : 2015-09-15 17:51 ID:Ei7ZgUE4 [Del]

>>10 Interesting analysis, indeed.

Anyone else care to contribute?

12 Name: Crossark : 2015-09-17 09:26 ID:Ei7ZgUE4 [Del]

Well, since we're lacking in new content, I'd just like to notify y'all of a song by the name of "Exiles Among You" by The Weakerthans. I found this individual's analysis to be quite accurate. The subject matter of the song, like that of Ithaca, seems to be a very relatable tale of loving someone to whom you are only a friend, but not really minding at all as long as they're happy.

From this piece, I often quote "Wish on everything. / Pray that she remains / Proud and strange and so hopelessly hopeful." This really captures the essence of the piece, in my opinion. The speaker realizes that, though he loves the girl in question, he cannot do anything to help her -- or, rather, that she would not allow him to. So he just hopes she'll be okay, and that all the things - good or bad - that are happening in her life don't change who she is on the inside.

13 Name: The Captain : 2015-09-17 17:15 ID:RMPdkTd6 [Del]

The poem I chose consists of the themes death and liberation in my opinion. Throughout the story a man is witnessing his father dying and is urging/pleading for him to stay alive a little longer. This applies to us as human beings. Doing absolutely anything to have one more breath before the final chapter of our life.

Here's one of my personal favorites by Dylan Thomas:

Do not go gentle into that good night,
Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Though wise men at their end know dark is right,
Because their words had forked no lightning they
Do not go gentle into that good night.

Good men, the last wave by, crying how bright
Their frail deeds might have danced in a green bay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Wild men who caught and sang the sun in flight,
And learn, too late, they grieved it on its way,
Do not go gentle into that good night.

Grave men, near death, who see with blinding sight
Blind eyes could blaze like meteors and be gay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

And you, my father, there on the sad height,
Curse, bless, me now with your fierce tears, I pray.
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

*The fact that this was in the film Interstellar made it even cooler.*

14 Name: Rune_Vocs !i76PfsUPeE : 2015-09-19 07:34 ID:aqpd3ZLW [Del]

bump

15 Name: Crossark : 2015-09-19 13:41 ID:Ei7ZgUE4 [Del]

>>14 Thank you.

16 Name: Crossark : 2015-09-22 20:59 ID:Ei7ZgUE4 [Del]

Bumpin' for new members.

17 Name: Crossark : 2015-09-23 21:54 ID:Ei7ZgUE4 [Del]

I will not let this thread die. It will:
"...not go gently into that good night."

18 Name: Kanra!w13SR5tpU. : 2015-09-23 22:34 ID:6wJ+gBhf [Del]

If a problem doesn't cause a problem then it isn't a problem at all ~

19 Name: Crossark : 2015-09-24 12:49 ID:Ei7ZgUE4 [Del]

>>18 Interesting quote. I'm not sure I really understand it. Who's work was it?

20 Name: DutchBunny !lmBitchbiw : 2015-09-24 17:16 ID:UZSeZhZv [Del]

I swear, there are so many duplicate quote threads on this site that fighting them isn't even worth the effort.

21 Name: Crossark : 2015-09-24 20:31 ID:Ei7ZgUE4 [Del]

>>20 Exactly! Don't fight it; succumb.

22 Name: NZPIEFACE : 2015-09-24 23:22 ID:uoJkLkbX [Del]

>>21 Rick and Morty reference?

23 Name: Crossark : 2015-09-26 14:39 ID:Ei7ZgUE4 [Del]

>>22 Sure, let's go with that.