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3rd person language barriers & cultural appropriation (11)

1 Name: Dusty Bunny !08vfntjTRk : 2014-09-29 03:31 ID:TxGrsLrf [Del]

Hello Dollars, I'm fairly certain this hasn't already been made a thread, and if it is I apologize beforehand, but I was hoping to get some opinions rolling in regards to a problem I've run into with my fledgling WIP.

For some background, this is a piece of high fantasy with magic, and the main character, who we'll call Kell for now because I'm still tossing up on names, starts off in her home country but flees to escape after a spark finally ignites some deep-seated tensions. Investigations, conspiracies, and hi-jinks of suitably epic proportions ensue. Unfortunately, since most of her friends chose to stay and try to protect their home instead of simply getting out of there, she's by herself. Whilst fleeing, she has to travel with a group from a neighboring country but only has a passing knowledge of a handful of words in their language, which is where I begin pulling out my hair thinking about how I am meant to do this.

Should we hear the others speak around her for plot's convenience, but make it clear that she doesn't understand a word? Or should we keep it in really, really close third person, and only decipher what she deciphers? I'm no Tolkien-level language master, so there would be no actual foreign language written, save for maybe a few words or grammatically incorrect sentence fragments that her travelling companions teach her over time. Or maybe there's a third option; the reader only gets to read dialogue she's actually focused on, and though she doesn't understand most of it, the reader will? What would you personally, as a reader, like more, or feel best fits the scenario? And if any of you wonderful, wonderful people decide to help me out and give some feedback, please just keep in mind that the story does revolve a bit around differences in culture, religion, morals, and language being a divisive force.

Also, if you just have anything you want to get off your chest regarding cultural appropriation, please be my guest. Anything that possibly makes me come across as less of an ass-hat in this department is welcome and wanted, and will probably just be something good to bring up and raise awareness of.

2 Name: Chibi-chan : 2014-09-30 19:23 ID:peidm3Mi [Del]

I'll try and give what little help I think I'm able to. Before I begin though, I feel I need to say that your idea is simply brilliant and I wish you the best of luck with.
Also, pardon any possible mistakes in terminology, it happens from time to time, English isn't my mother toungue.
Personally, when I write (and they're only short stories, nothing more) I end up having an all-knowing narrator, but the characters being in the dark, the narrator being a person outside the 'action' as one of my teachers used to say, which is closer to your first option. I believe it's the easiest way for the potential reader to understand what's going on, but clearly stating that the character doesn't understand.
Also, since the plot is focused on cultural differences, but is it more comedical/satiric oriented, or more serious/social oriented? I think that might influence what you might want to write.

3 Name: Dusty Bunny !08vfntjTRk : 2014-10-01 09:22 ID:2Idv4qVW [Del]

>>2 Thanks for your advice and your kind words, Chibi-chan! The all-knowing narrator option wasn't one I had even considered, but when you bring it up, I think it could work. Since it's a little different from the style I've become accustomed to, I might have to practice a bit to get it down, though. Oh well, who ever said life was easy, right?

The interactions between Kell and her new travel companions are meant to be relatively satirical on the surface, but when it comes down to it she is feeling very much alone in a crowd, and she's still pretty torn up over things that happened before she left. But in order to show this inner turmoil, I'll have to jump into her head quite a bit throughout the story, which throws another spanner in the works as to how I'm meant to show both outer conflict and inner conflict.

Maybe I could set it up like a POV change? I could switch between Kell and the all-knowing narrator depending on what the focus is on in the chapter, perhaps?

4 Name: Chibi-chan : 2014-10-05 15:02 ID:VMiPtqHa [Del]

You're welcome. I usually play around with different writing styles, and haven't ended up mastering any. 'Jack-of-all-trades, master of none' that's how the saying goes, right? I stick with writing fanfiction until I settle on a writing style. And second person POV is shitty, in my opinion. POV chance can work too, but can be tricky from time to time, I believe, but that's on the writter, I suppose.

Oh, I see! Trully brilliant! I wish you the best of luck!

5 Name: Dusty Bunny !08vfntjTRk : 2014-10-09 04:24 ID:ShOZSPdM [Del]

Yup, that's the saying. And I agree with you on the second person POV - I've seen one instance where it's been done well, in The Night Circus, and it only had small interval chapters in it. Again, thank you!

6 Post deleted by user.

7 Name: BarabiSama !lmBitchbiw : 2014-10-09 13:22 ID:ELIKZuYc [Del]

>>4 Writing in second person can take a project to another level, but it's compatible with very few stories. Not just anything can be written in it. So unless you have something that's made for that POV, it just doesn't work, meanwhile 1st and 3rd are usually interchangeable.

>>1 Whether or not you want the reader to know what the people are talking about depends on whether you want the reader to be in the main character's shoes or to watch the protagonist's struggle. I think you have a great opportunity here of having a first person or third person limited narrator and really getting the reader to experience the protagonist's struggles. It's something that anyone who has traveled can relate to, and it has the potential of really giving depth and insight into the character we're following as the readers.

However, you're passing up that chance by translating what these other people are saying or by not providing the original dialogue at all. By doing that, you're separating us from the story, and by then it's just a nice story to read - not the interactive experience it could be.

Providing us with dialogue to analyze would also open a door for tossing in easter eggs and playful things you can do as the author. Perhaps she think she's having a casual conversation at the beginning with someone then, later on in the plot, she learns those same words, which turn out to be insults. We as the readers can then put two-and-two together and laugh at her for misunderstanding earlier. That again gives her depth and relate-ability.

So yeah. Those're my preferences, but what you do in the end is up to you alone.

8 Name: Annie : 2014-10-09 13:46 ID:8R9aJlCw [Del]

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if you wanna join, then you have to ask for the friendship of the man who owns the group. Adam Ace Eriksson.
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9 Name: Annie : 2014-10-09 13:59 ID:8R9aJlCw [Del]

i know this doesn´t belong to the subject but i promised myself to tell you all about this. there is a facebook group for dollars called Unity law.
if you wanna join, then you have to ask for the friendship of the man who owns the group. Adam Ace Eriksson.
i hope that i´ll get to see you all at facebook^^

10 Name: BarabiSama !lmBitchbiw : 2014-10-09 14:18 ID:ELIKZuYc [Del]

>>9 Go fuck yourself. By spamming our site, you can be assured that no one with half a brain is going to support your shit.

11 Name: Dusty Bunny !08vfntjTRk : 2014-10-10 07:45 ID:ShOZSPdM [Del]

>>7 You raise really good points, and my preferences are leaning a bit more towards your idea. Thing is, I'm no linguistics professor, I'm still a student. I'm learning a second language, which is helping me recognize some language conventions, and I've got the internet to help fill in a few blanks here and there, but I'm still floundering when it comes to creating even the basics. Kell would pick up and make conscious notes on the language she's being surrounded by in order to learn (even if, as you suggested, they might not necessarily be right), so it stands to reason that the author should have a good grip on the language in order to guide the readers through it with her. I kind of hit a road block at that point and started trying to possibly find ways around, hence the thread. Well, I also wanted to see what other people would prefer reading.

Ah, geez, I'm sorry if this reads like an incoherent mess, but I'm tired and on some wicked pain medication at the moment. Thanks for the feedback!