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Help Thread: English Grammar/Formatting (49)

1 Name: BarabiSama!!Xu7p6LDw : 2012-05-17 16:54 ID:JPm30D5B [Del]

I'm pretty sure that just about everyone has had a situation where they just didn't know how the fuck to punctuate/capitalize/format/spell something. This thread is for help with writing English. In my next post, I'll give a comprehensive list of tricky grammar rules. (English has a lot of those.)

I have some questions myself, and Google just isn't the place for looking up grammar; even English teachers aren't sure about some things. So, if you've got knowledge, share it!

2 Post deleted by user.

3 Name: BarabiSama!!Xu7p6LDw : 2012-05-17 17:55 ID:JPm30D5B [Del]

Bambi's Grammar Corner || I
_________________________________________________________

Capitalizing Titles
I actually have a great list from one of my grammar books here. It's an old-y but a good-y:


Therefore, capitalize the following parts of speech:
  • Nouns (e.g., flowers and Europe as in The Flowers of Europe)

  • Pronouns (e.g., our as in Save Our Children; that as in The Mouse That Roared)

  • Verbs (e.g., watches as in America Watches Television; is as in What Is Literature?)

  • Adjectives (e.g., ugly as in The Ugly Ducking; that as in Who Said That Phrase?)

  • Adverbs (e.g., slightly as in Only Slightly Corrupt; down as in Go Down, Moses)



In general, articles (the, an, a) and most other smaller particles of speech (of, and) are not capitalized unless they are at the beginning. However, it does sometimes depend on their placement and use within the sentence. If you have any doubts, post the particular title you want to write and I can give you a solid answer as to what should/shouldn't be capitalized.

Repeated Words
Although there is usually a way to get around it, sometimes you just can't avoid repeating a word directly after itself. The correct way to do this is to have a comma between the words. Even if the sentence wouldn't normally call for it, the comma would go there anyway. That's just how it is. If you're writing a formal paper, though, avoid repeated words. Sometimes, people just add the other word in because it sounds right, and it even works without it. The most frequent example of this is with the word "that."

Original Example: "I thought that, that was his last pitch."
Better Example: "I thought that was his last pitch."
Possible Example 2: "I thought, 'Wasn't that his last pitch?'"

Stacked Punctuation
Sometimes, there will be instances where you need two different pieces of punctuation right after each other. First, I'll give you a general guideline, and then I'll give you examples.

  • When adding a question mark (?) or excalamation point (!) after an ellipse (...), you should always get rid of the last dot of the ellipse and replace it with your punctuation mark of choice. Remember that ellipses do have special purposes (see next section).
    Example: What is this..?


  • When a comma is following an ellipses, never remove the last period. Just put the comma after.
    Example: [There are very few instances where this is necessary, so I can't really think of an example right now. Sorry. Basically, though, it would just be "...,"]


  • The next sentence is an example of what it is explaining: If you want to say Mrs., Ms., Mr., or any other acronym/shortened word where you need a comma, always put the comma after the period.


  • Punctuation with parentheses () is a bit tricky. Depending on what you're doing, the period/end punctuation for the sentence before it may or may not come after. Basically, if what is in the parentheses is an independent clause that can be supported as its own sentence, then what is inside should be capitalized and the end punctuation for the previous sentence should be before the parentheses. However, if what is in the parentheses is a dependent clause that could not be a complete sentence, then it should not be capitalized, and the end punctuation should come after the parentheses. If the parentheses are in the middle of a sentence, what is inside must be a dependent clause, and there should be no punctuation directly after the parentheses.
    Mid-Dependent Example: I have brown eyes (with specs of gold) that shine in the light.
    End-Dependent Example: I have brown eyes (with specs of gold).
    Independent Example: He was beautiful. (You don't say?)


  • Double parentheses are technically alright, but they're not particularly formal. In general, you want to start with brackets, and use parentheses inside them. [(text)] Never use brackets inside of parentheses. ([DO NOT DO THIS]) If you need three within each other, it is usually best to go [((text))]. However, if you wanted to be cool, there IS a system that goes to four with this. In most cases, though, it's better to just start a new sentence rather than go that far, mainly because not all professors/writers accept using that type of separation punctuation past the bracket.


Using Quotation Marks
Quotation marks are annoying and weird. There are very few situations where the end punctuation comes after the quotation, so if you're not positive, the best thing to do would be to put it before the end quotation mark. I tend to not follow the quotation mark rules, but I'll lay them out for those who need it:

  • Quoting Within A Quote
    When you're quoting within a quote, you put the normal quotation marks as you would around the entire original quote, and then you actually use apostraphes around the quote inside.

    For example: He sighed, realizing he would have to tell the full story. "I asked him what he was doing. He said, 'I'm dancing. What else would I be doing?' It took me by surprise to see he had such a nonchalant response."


  • Changing Speakers
    When you change speakers, you go to a new paragraph, even if the last paragraph only had one line. You never have one paragraph with two speakers unless one speaker is quoting another.

    Example:
    P1: "I fell into the well," Charlie said. He didn't seem pleased, for his clothes were dripping wet. "Why didn't you help, James?"
    P2: James snickered. "I was too busy laughing my ass off."
    P3: "Screw you! 'Laughing my ass off,' you say? Fuck you - I'm gonna push you into the well next time, James." Charlie began to strip, throwing the clothes at his so-called "friend" before he dressed himself.

4 Name: Zero : 2012-05-18 17:06 ID:2iCFW86n [Del]

I have Google spellchecker installed INTO my computer so i'm lucky.

5 Name: BarabiSama!!Xu7p6LDw : 2012-05-19 06:48 ID:qHUNtbBY [Del]

>>4 Spell check doesn't do shit when it comes to grammar.

6 Name: arka !chvok4/SZI : 2012-09-01 13:34 ID:jdNZ9HeS [Del]

Yes, yes, yesssss. This needs a bumping.

7 Name: Gatzu !DFqtqWsVYk : 2012-09-01 21:09 ID:/NMifr6i [Del]

Yay! Thank you Barabi!

8 Name: Leigha Moscove !9tSeSkSEz2 : 2012-09-01 21:42 ID:GjTDLqfw [Del]

Okay, so I'll be the first to admit that I have punctuation problems. My personal problem with punctuation is commas. Since I know that my next post in the RP will have a good example pf my issue with commas, do you mind if a copy a paragraph from my next post and post it here with the problem part underlined? Would you tell me if I'm right or wrong?

My personal problem with comas is I don't always know when to add one, and I'll add one or two simply because it makes a sentence read better, but, since I love to write, I kind of want it to be as good as I can. I am also having issues with this because I'm writing a book.

I'm not saying that only Barabi can answer my question, but I kind of respect her opinion since I know that she's good at it. I know there are other people here who are bigger grammar Nazi's and all of that shit.


Anyways, enough with my rambling. Long story short, if I post a paragraph here and underline what I have a question on, will someone answer it?

9 Name: Zeckarias !kjn0nYOOPw : 2012-09-01 22:56 ID:85dpLWlO [Del]

>>8 I've had the same problem, and I've found that it depends very highly on the situation. I cannot directly remember the rules for formal works, but for informal the comma can be used as necessary for punctuation of personal intonation. In other words, if you were to speak what it it you're typing or writing and you conversationally pause, a comma can be appropriate.
If this is left in the air for much longer I'm sure I can discuss this with my English prof.

10 Name: arka !chvok4/SZI : 2012-09-02 03:21 ID:Fncc8Sie [Del]

I've got some notes on comma rules (with examples) lying around. Might take me some time to type them up though.

11 Name: arka !chvok4/SZI : 2012-09-02 04:14 ID:7MH0RU7b [Del]

Comma's Part One

  • When you have more than one adjective in front of a noun, there are commas between the adjectives. (Fancy wording- Multiple adjectives preceding a noun are separated by commas.)
    Example: The large, yellow tiger is hungry.

  • When an adverb is the first word in a sentence, a comma comes after it. (Fancy wording - An introductory adverb is followed by a comma.)
    Example: Hesitantly, the girl crept across the floor.
    Example: Yesterday, I slammed my hand in the car door.

  • When a prepositional phrase is at the beginning of a sentence, there is a comma after it. (Fancy wording - An introductory prepositional phrase is followed by a comma.)
    (A prepositional phrase is one that denotes position)
    Words like in, into, under, over, below, through, etc. are all prepositions.
    Example: Into the mist, the car sped far too quickly.
    Example: Under the moonlight, the cats fought wildly.


  • Now you may be wondering how you know where to put the comma once you realize that you have written one of the "position words" at the beginning of your sentence. You will soon get the feel for it with practice, but as you are learning, ask yourself, Into what?(mist) and "Under what?(moonlight). The comma goes after the word that answers your question.
    Also remember that commas only go after a prepositional phrase if it at the beginning of a sentence.

12 Name: arka !chvok4/SZI : 2012-09-02 04:17 ID:7MH0RU7b [Del]

More to come.

13 Name: Leigha Moscove !9tSeSkSEz2 : 2012-09-02 08:16 ID:GjTDLqfw [Del]

>>11 Okay, that answers two of my questions about commas. I still have one more. Okay, to better answer my question, tell me if these commas are alright.

"My personal problem with comas is I don't always know when to add one, and I'll add one or two simply because it makes a sentence read better, but, since I love to write, I kind of want it to be as good as I can. I am also having issues with this because I'm writing a book."

14 Name: arka !chvok4/SZI : 2012-09-02 13:42 ID:/mlF2NWV [Del]

Your commas appear to be in the right places. Usually, when writing you should be able to tell whether its okay to use a comma or not. For example, when posting on this board people (who actually bother to use proper punctuation) translate whatever they are thinking directly on screen as if holding a conversation with someone. In that case it's best to use commas whenever you would normally pause while speaking. There are no set rules. Try reading whatever you write out loud and check if it feels right to you.

When writing prose, using commas sometimes serve the same purpose. In this age some books' authors tend to wing it without
checking if their punctuation is "Oxford proper." Rules regarding them continue to become more relaxed as less people bother about it.

If you want to know the old-school rules for commas, I can't tell you because I don't know. I got most of my grammar/punctuation knowledge simply by reading and attempting to use similar styles to whatever I had/have read lately.

What I do know is that commas tend to make sentences longer than they could have been. This leads to run-on sentences. In my personal opinion, it's better to change up the pace of your writing by using long and short sentences. Sometimes splitting a long, comma-ridden sentence into a few bite-sized sentences is the way to go.

Anyway, I'm not some English prof...

15 Name: Leigha Moscove !9tSeSkSEz2 : 2012-09-02 15:45 ID:GjTDLqfw [Del]

>>14 Thanks. I now feel more confident about my writing abilities.

16 Name: BarabiSama!!C8QPa1Mt : 2012-09-02 16:44 ID:RqWe3U8n [Del]

Oh hey there thread.

17 Name: Leigha Moscove !9tSeSkSEz2 : 2012-09-02 17:46 ID:GjTDLqfw [Del]

>>16 Do you think my commas are good Barabi?In post >>13

18 Name: BarabiSama!!C8QPa1Mt : 2012-09-02 17:57 ID:RqWe3U8n [Del]

>>17 They seem fine :O I don't see any misplaced or lacking.

>>11 Thanks for your addition ^O^ Are you going to post the other rules, or may I make a Part Two to that?

19 Name: arka !chvok4/SZI : 2012-09-04 06:20 ID:/BVpRQC9 [Del]

Sorry, been busy. I will post the rest today.

20 Name: arka !chvok4/SZI : 2012-09-04 08:26 ID:+u0/u8he [Del]

I spent a half-hour typing the rest, and when I'm about post, my laptop shuts down. Like the idiot I am, I didn't even bother saving. So, furious, I spent the next five minutes raging into mid-air.

I'm too lazy to try to type the whole damn thing again and do all that formatting, so for now I'll just give a link to a webpage that has a *couple* rules about commas.

If you want, Barabi, you can type up a Part Two.

Commas


21 Name: Green Tea : 2013-05-23 00:35 ID:sVlS3ZUv [Del]

bump

22 Name: BarabiSama !!C8QPa1Mt : 2013-05-23 08:00 ID:roHXdlm7 [Del]

Mah thread!
/cuddles

Wow. It's been forever. I should add some things to this...

23 Name: arka !chvok4/SZI : 2013-10-01 10:10 ID:sVC+4sNV [Del]

....poor thread...

24 Name: Ao : 2013-10-02 22:25 ID:Z23HmC7u [Del]

Words I need help spelling:

Necessary.
Garuntee.
Restraunt.

Those are the only ones I can think of off the top of my head sorry

25 Post deleted by user.

26 Name: Litairtak Speruff!NRf7wfm3Qk : 2013-10-05 14:26 ID:hCf8egLv [Del]

"Necessary" is correct and the other ones should be

"guarantee"
and
"restraint" or "restaurant"

depending on what you wanted to express.

27 Name: Ao!xbaEGjJEyU : 2013-10-05 15:19 ID:Z23HmC7u [Del]

Yes, the place one goes to to poay chefs to cook food for them and others. Or prepare, if its not cooked. Thanks

28 Name: arka !chvok4/SZI : 2014-02-19 12:36 ID:isr7YA7L [Del]

Lazarus Rising!

I should really add more here..

-bumpedthisupsoitcouldseethelight.

29 Name: Litairtak Speruff!NRf7wfm3Qk : 2015-02-11 17:32 ID:qSLXDOPm [Del]

Useful thread

30 Name: Magnolia : 2015-02-11 20:11 ID:ab76+gX8 [Del]

Holy Shit, we had this??

31 Name: Kokkuri-san : 2015-02-11 21:07 ID:9P2C9FmW [Del]

alright well....how do you pronounce dishevelled?

My literature teacher pronounces it as dish-sheevelled

whereas I've known to pronounce it as dis-heevelled.

32 Name: Magnolia : 2015-02-12 05:27 ID:ab76+gX8 [Del]

>>31 I am almost a 100% sure that dish-sheeveled makes no sense at all. Is your Lit. teacher a foreigner, or something? I have never ever heard someone say dish-sheeveled.

33 Name: Crossark : 2015-02-13 10:47 ID:GMQC4fgH [Del]

I'm joining the ranks of the many grammar enthusiasts in the Dollars. I'll be here quite often.

34 Name: BarabiSama !lmBitchbiw : 2015-02-13 19:20 ID:Yg1j6bwN [Del]

>>31 >>32 Pretty sure neither of those are technically right. It's dih-shev-uhld. You can hear the pronunciation here.

35 Name: Magnolia!2ipznOcc5g : 2015-02-14 04:21 ID:03Zhx25C [Del]

>>34 Huh... I remember hearing people say it like that too.

36 Name: Crossark : 2015-02-14 11:09 ID:XlivUe6s [Del]

I can confirm that it should be "dih-shev-eld (or uhld, depending on regional pronunciations).

37 Name: Crossark : 2015-02-14 11:18 ID:XlivUe6s [Del]

See this video on the subject of mispronunciations and common mistakes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIvrDsnKuQ8

38 Name: Magnolia!2ipznOcc5g : 2015-02-19 18:35 ID:ab76+gX8 [Del]

I can't believe how helpful this thread is.

39 Post deleted by user.

40 Post deleted by user.

41 Name: Litairtak Speruff!NRf7wfm3Qk : 2015-03-08 12:25 ID:woQObNrr [Del]

Tips & Tricks - "1000 things you never knew about the English language."

Advice from a British native speaker and language coach. His tips are directed at business people who're learning English as a foreign language, but they might be interesting for other English learners, nonetheless.

42 Name: Magnolia!2ipznOcc5g : 2015-03-10 04:49 ID:ab76+gX8 [Del]

.

43 Name: Litairtak Speruff!NRf7wfm3Qk : 2015-03-24 06:58 ID:Tr6z4gky [Del]

Question: "object of affection" vs "subject of affection"

This question has been bothering for a while. I understand the logic behind the term "object of affection": It describes the person on the receiving end of your affection, so the "affection acceptor" has to be the object and the "affection donor" is the subject. So far, so good.

However, wouldn't it be better to change it to "subject of affection" from a "philosophical" point of view? By using "subject", you wouldn't objectify the individual you're feeling affection towards and you'd acknowledge them as a person who has their very own needs, desires, feelings and opinions. A person that you respect for being their own master. I hope this makes sense.

So here's my question: Is is possible to use "subject of affection" instead of "object of affection" without making a grammatical error?

44 Name: Litairtak Speruff!NRf7wfm3Qk : 2015-03-31 12:14 ID:ao0jSRQ8 [Del]

Still wondering

45 Name: arka !chvok4/SZI : 2015-04-13 10:43 ID:Dodb9rpZ [Del]

>>44 Yes, but people will fight you.

46 Name: Tagori !MJz/VilEkE : 2015-05-01 15:36 ID:W9Tey1Es [Del]

>>43 i had a friend that really wanted to put a strange twist on a common phrase. the phrase was "bone chilling scream" or something along those lines. i liked that he was trying to do something new and different, but it just didn't feel right. what i'm getting at is that, while it's good to try new things, you should stick with established norms if you want a wider range to understand what you're saying.

but that's just my 3 cents ;)

47 Name: Magnolia : 2015-05-19 05:38 ID:ab76+gX8 [Del]

Bumpity

48 Name: NZPIEFACE : 2015-05-20 05:28 ID:mB4PwLtq [Del]

After an acronym, if there is a period, how do you write it?

49 Name: Vera : 2015-09-04 06:06 ID:Ru2jdc3n [Del]

Hi(: I have a question on use of quotation marks and capitalization when quoting. How would you end a quote that ends with a quote? For example, "The quick brown fox asked, 'why must I jump over the lazy dog?' " Also, what needs to be capitalized in that sentence? Should "the" right after "For example" be capitalized because it's the start of the sentence of the quote or is that grammatically wrong? Same as for "why" which is the quote that the quote was quoting, should "why" be capitalized or should it not? Thanks in advance! (: