I'm going to keep this short and simple.
Basically, a lot of what I think misinforms and misdirects new members is the About. A lot of them would read that first, and it gives quite a misleading depiction of the website. If you haven't already seen it, the link is at the top of the page.

I think we should change it to be more appropriate towards the sites reality, rather than what the Otakus on Mission get led to believe.

I think we might as well move away from the anime completely and just have this site being something unique in and of itself. We get too many Otaku trying to change this into their own little, personal heaven and fantasy.

If they want to discuss the anime, there is an anime section. Want to discuss the novels, there's a manga/literature section. I feel we should start changing this up a bit.

There is still a part of a community that does come here for the missions.. so I dont know. Depends on the extent of the change.

>>2 I definitely think we should head more in that direction, but still keep a part of this site open for those types of people. They are fine to perform missions, it's just when they try to force others to as well.

>>3 We can definitely keep a bit that mentions the missions we do; just make it so it doesn't mislead what this site really is.

"Just who are the Dollars?

To put it simply, we are a group united in transparency. Our flag has no color, and our members are not bound to any hierarchy. At over 10,000 strong from across the globe, we have many smaller cells, but there is no true leader. Age, ethnicity, economic status, ability; none of that matters here. Everyone is equal.

We abhor violence and go out of our way to bring peace, justice, and prosperity to our respective communities. We want to show the world that groups like ours are not to be feared. Many of the Dollars vow to do what they can, and our only reward is motivating others to join our cause. We use a Bulletin Board System to congregate and bounce ideas off one another, as well as being a place for general discussion of shared hobbies and interests.

Anyone can join. Just say you’re in the Dollars and you’re in. Spread the word.

We are the Dollars, and we welcome you in open arms!"

Sentences like "We abhor violence and go out of our way to bring peace, justice, and prosperity to our respective communities", gives quite a heavy impression of a group more like Anonymous, rather than a discussion forum with room for Personal Missions.

Maybe if we changed it to something more realistic as to the current state of this website, we would have less trouble with new members having sooks at the people who don't feel the need to do missions.

I feel like it would be quite a simple change, and could improve this site markedly.

>>3 I think we can change it to something that still acknowledges missions as a part of this site, but also makes it clear that isn't the main point. People are coming on the site and thinking anyone not doing missions is failing.

Also, I really think the About tab should have a basic explanation of BBS's. Many people coming from DRRR!! have never been on a BBS, and it shows. A simple explanation of what it is could also help.

I think we should even change the name.
I don't think we should even be called Dollars, but instead something more unique to us and the website.

>>6 Calling it the Dollars is part of the layout or aesthetic. The whole point of creating the site was to replicate the layout of the site of the same name in DRRR. It is one of the foundations of the site itself.

That being said, I understand the possible benefits of changing the name. I just don't see it as a pressing issue.

>>7
The fact is at the time I doubt Reltair knew how this site would play out. Now, I think we might as well be our own site, and not something where our crutch is an anime.

>>8 what does bossman even think about this? Has anyone even bothered to ask him his opinion

>>9
We don't bother him with stuff until we get a decent 'community' opinion. It'd be pointless to get his word on it until after we know what most of the community wants, or at least the active ones.

The new Kanra person is precisely why I think this needs to be changed; if nobody has any big objections, I'll email Reltair about it now.

why thank you, solace.. i see that i tis have a deciple of goodness! thanks for agreeing with my proposal..

I smell a misinterpretation of what I said.

>>13 You meant that we should eliminate the Help tab, replace the About description with a picture of Izaya, and have every new thread be named 'I LOVE SHIZUO'.

...Right?

oh...sorry ^^ my bad.. if you really dont agree, then its perfectly fine ^^

>>14 Thought it was obvious that was what I meant.

Emailed Retair about it, btw.

I can imagine an otaku and someone hoping to do some serious work getting into a misunderstanding or something of the sort.

>>8>>6>>2

I agree with you guys completely. While the Dollars from the anime are a good inspiration, if the point of this website is to actually form a constructive group it needs to distance itself from its origins a little bit. I think a group, with widespread, anonymous membership, united by the internet that goes out and tries to do a little good in the world is a wonderful thing, but I think the association to an anime is going to hold it back in terms of increasing membership, or having people take it seriously.

>>18 The level of misinterpretation that you just went through is unbelievable.

Also, Reltair still hasn't replied.

I'm pretty sure I didn't misinterpret anything? I agree with most of the points Thiamor was making about changing the name of the Dollars, in addition to just the "About" section, and moving away from the Anime, and then provided my own reasoning to why that should happen. Unless I'm missing something that's completely within the scope of this discussion.

Also, I also forgot to mention in my original post that I agree with your (Solace's) points about what needs to be changed in the about section, promoting peace and justice sounds a little ambitious. Personally I would also remove the reference to having many smaller "cells" and maybe replacing that with a synonym with fewer negative connotations.

>>21 He was talking about how in reality, this site is nothing like a gang. Thiamor wants this to be completely a discussion forum, not associated with any kind of gang from an anime that might make it seem like we are trying to achieve anything. I was talking about how although most new members interpret us as largely a force akin to Anonymous, we are simply a BBS system, used for discussion of various topics. We are both talking about the realistic aspects of this forum, you seem to be on a different, but similar, tangent to the new members we afore mentioned.

If that's the impression I gave I obviously did not explain myself very well. I in no way see this as anything like a "gang", if I did, I wouldn't be here. Same thing with anonymous, where I see anonymous as widely distributed internet activism (and to a degree, hacktivism), often with questionable motives and methods, I don't see (or want to see) the dollars as anything like that. For one, having political goals will always be divisive. If you've seen my other posts (they were the most recent posts in a few suggestion threads for about a day), you'd see that I agree this is definitely mainly (almost exclusively) a discussion BBS system, but I also like the idea of the "missions" section and actually trying to accomplish small things locally, but believe that as it is its usefulness is limited. When I mentioned being a "constructive group" I didn't have anything unrealistic or terribly ambitious in mind, just maybe making it easier for people in the same area to get together and do small, positive things that will help their communities. The relevance to this thread is that I think if people were serious about trying to do anything like that, and about trying to increase the usage of this site, the association to the anime should be dropped,and the about section changed to be a bit more realistic so that newcomers who haven't seen or don't care about the anime will be able to take this place seriously.

>>23 or drop that alltogether and become a discussion site. Delete the mission section and turn the dollars site into a forum like every other. Change the name of the site into something like OtakuCentral or something. Create a new logo, remove the password. Change the color scheme. We aren't the dollars. We're otaku. Nothing more.

>>24
No need to delete the mission section.
We'll always still get people who would use it. Doesn't mean we label it as being a god dollar, but instead doing it just because.

Also no need to change the color scheme of it. The fact of the matter is it's still highly unique and the over all theme itself fits. Logo could be changed, password should be changed, not removed.

Also you're an idiot if you call us Otaku. Being an Otaku is a BAAAAAAD thing. Something we shouldn't label ourselves as.

>>24>>25
I have to agree with Thiamor on this one, if the idea is to make the site more accessible, labeling the place as an Otaku sanctuary is not going to help things. I think it should go in the opposite direction and move farther away from that sort of thing, keep Anime-centered discussions in the sections where they belong and keep the rest of the site open to a wider group of people than just anime fans.

>>23 Ahhkay, glad you explained yourself. I'm just always naturally a bit wary when people start talking about that subject on this site.

Please let us avoid Otaku at all costs.

I truly hope that these kinds of changes are made in the near future. I hate seeing the multiple bullshit posts by some Otaku coming straight from watching the anime hoping this site will be their haven for roleplaying. I fully agree with moving completely away from the anime. I could honestly care less if the missions are kept or removed.

Might I bring up the point of if we were to change the password? If the reason of changing it would be to separate the Otaku from the rest who take this site as it is (correct me if I am wrong about that), how will we also try keeping Otaku from coming again and thinking that this is a fan site? I'm sorry if I am asking this the wrong way.

>>24 I don't see why you would want to take something that's unique in certain aspects for some (maybe not for others) and change it into something we have out there a thousand times over.
If you just want a discussion site why don't you go to one somewhere else?
Changing everything will defeat the novelty of this entire site.
That being said, i do agree that we should change the about page. I didn't come from DRRR (?) but i stumbled onto this site, read the about page and instantly assumed this was some kind of union or like you said 'gang', i went away and looked into it (more than i did to find the password) until i found it was from this anime called Durarara. It's nice they made the site real, even if it is misleading it's still a novelty.

>>31
"I don't see why you would want to take something that's unique in certain aspects for some (maybe not for others) and change it into something we have out there a thousand times over. "

You do realize this type of site is no longer unique, correct? There are thousands if not 10's of thousands or more of these types of sites.

This IS a discussion site, mind you. We're normally running off those Otaku who want to use it as some fansite anyway, so we might as well just change a few things up to limit those Otaku as it stands. They provide nothing to this site. We do. Not them.

That's a good point, Thiamor.

There's something else to consider.

We have a steady flow of new members coming in: some are good, while others are not. However, if we change our name, password, and are not called the Dollars anymore, that flow will stop. We will have to manually invite everyone that comes, and even then interest in the site is not guaranteed. The only reason I ever came here was because of DRRR!!, and if the site changed it's name I never would have found it. It is essentially free advertising.

We could be more selective in our invitations. However, the site could lose members quicker than they are coming in.

Something to consider.

What if you just do a registration base system? But not where people actually register for accounts?

All you do is type in your Email, it sends a notification to an admin panel with the email and the IP used, they click accept, and it allows them access. Now when they change their computer or get a new Internet provider, they'll have to do so again, but this way people can click to join in, we don't have to invite, and the Oktau password is gone.

Keep the site itself the same. The boards. But change how we're found, our name, our URL, and what people think of us via the about.

Update: got an email back from Reltair.

"Hi Solace,

Thanks, and sorry about the late reply.
The original "About us" I wrote didn't emphasize being a "mission-oriented" organization so much, but it was changed to this current one a while back at the request of some members. It does mention " .. .place for general discussion of shared hobbies and interests." but I can see new members being confused.

Sure thing, I can change it if you guys come up with a revised text.

Thanks,
Reltair"

So I guess, any ideas, people?

>>37 Super happy to see that the changes can be made. We should stick with what you had originally stated. Emphasize that the site is more oriented for discussion. Make it known that we are not based off the anime in any way from this point forward. Leave small part for the people who want to do missions, but make it clear that it isn't what defines who we are as a group on the site.

I agree that we should keep with Solace's original idea.

I took a whack at the rewrite. And Thiamor, I really don't agree with the idea of changing the name of the website and all that shit. I agree that the weaboos are annoying, but the entire layout is based on the website from the anime; it would lose its charm in its entirety even if we just switched the name. Let those of us who aren't weaboos but still enjoy the idea of it being based on the anime keep our little corner of visual pleasure.

"Just who are the Dollars?

To put it simply, we are an open group and website not bound by user accounts nor official member ranking. There is no true leader, though the few site rules themselves are enforced by experienced members of the community. Due to this unique lack of hierarchy, there is a strictly kept balance of respect throughout the website despite the anonymity of its members.

Just as there is no one symbol nor color which defines us as a collective entity, there are no discriminatory filters acting against those who join. Your age, ethnicity, personality, economic status, and abilities have no influence on your membership, though how the community will respond to your posts largely depends on your own maturity and attitudes. Everyone is equal here under the electronic flag of the Dollars so long as the site's few rules on thread placement discussed in the FAQ on the Main board are kept to.

No matter the length of your membership, you are welcome to join the site's discussions and debates not only on controversial topics but also on matters of hobbies, sports, art, food, television, and many others. We also have a section of the website strictly dedicated to making the world a better place. The Missions sub-board is where many of our justice-loving members commune to share ideas to fight against pollution, violence, bullying, etc. and to work towards countless other causes. These members are the young heroes of our offline communities and are always looking to gather more followers for their causes. However, this website itself does not revolve around such concepts and has many different creative outlets and open discussions for members of all moralities.

We always have our figurative door open for those who wish to come and go, but once you join, you're one of us: Just leave your mark in the Introductions board, check out the FAQ, make a few posts, and you’re already united under our transparent flag. Bring your friends. Join a cause. And most of all, remember to enjoy your stay.

We are the Dollars, and we welcome you with open arms!"

>>40 I like the ideas in this rewrite. However, I have some issues with it.

You seem to be pushing the idea of rules, respect, maturity, etc, which is good since most people don't seem to get that. However, people coming to the site from DRRR!! may never have even been on a BBS before. I would have a quick explanation of topics, posts, and boards before anything else. You don't need to explain all of it, that's what the FAQ is for. But I think there should be some kind of explanation as to what the site actually is.

Also, may just be me, but most of the people on this site are younger than 20. Sometimes the language you use may be a little too advanced, for instance, "Just as there is no one symbol nor color which defines us as a collective entity, there are no discriminatory filters acting against those who join."

I know it isn't impossible to understand, but I can imagine younger people getting confused by some parts. To me, it should be a simple, short explanation of what the Dollars really are, what the site is all about, and what to start doing. Again, I really like the ideas you bring up, and I think it's a good rewrite. It's already an improvement on the current one, in my opinion.

Correct me if I'm spouting garbage or something.

>>41 Yeah, my vocabulary, uh... does that sometimes >_> You're perfectly welcome to tone it down. I just figured I'd give an example of what might be a good path to go for the new one.

And a board system is basically an anonymous forum site. If you've used forums before, you'll understand how it works. If you haven't used forums before, an explanation of how posting works probably won't make sense either until you actually experience it. Could you give an example of what you'd like it to say in regards to posting/how BBS's work?

>>42 The problem with that is the mistakes people make are because they don't really know how the site works. They don't understand how important or impactful making a new thread is. They may just think that's what you do to use the site.

Something like this: "The Dollars is a Bulletin Board System (BBS). There are a number of Boards, like Main, News, Food, and Technology to name a few. Each Board separates topics (or threads) into categories. Any topics about music would be posted in the Music Board, and a topic about building a custom computer would go in Technology.

In each board, people can post threads about things that relate to that board. There can be one thread for Folk music in the Music board, and a thread for Durarara!! in the Animation board. However, duplicate threads are not allowed, so there is only one thread for Folk music that everyone posts on. If there is not already a thread about a topic on a board, you may create a new thread for it.

Make sure you read the entire FAQ and look around the site a bit before making new threads or posting on topics. The reason we're still here is because we are organized, so we'd like to keep it that way!"

The only problem with explaining the BBS is the About becomes quite long, and discourages reading it. I hope you get the idea I am trying to convey, though.

i personally think that the current way is perfectly fine, and that even though many of us here may be otaku we do not use this site to carry out our fantasies or whatnot, but to do what dollars is here to do and connect with our society through discussions and missions without bias of race, religion. age, nationality or whatever. many have gotten here through the anime but we do understand that difference between 2D and 3D, and know that this is not the group mentioned in DRRR!, this is a group who's ideals have been based off of the ideals of the DRRR! Dollars. that is not to say that we are attempting to be the DRRR! Dollars.

>>44 do you even know what otaku actually means

>>45 enlighten me.

>>46 no. use a dictionary.

>>46 >>47 "a young person who is obsessed with computers or particular aspects of popular culture to the detriment of their social skills."

An otaku is someone who is so heavily obsessed with something that they can't function socially in nearly all major aspects of human interaction. Otaku isn't limited to animation despite how people without any understanding of the word claim that it refers only to how much they love anime. Being an otaku isn't something to be proud of no matter how watered down the meaning of the word is in English speaking countries. A good word to compare it to that we use in English would be "weaboo", which has a more realistically negative connotation.

If you were a true, anime 'otaku', what you're claiming is the exact opposite of what would happen. You would be so obsessed with the idea of there being a true Dollars (like some of our members seem to be) that you wouldn't be able to have an honest conversation on any other topic and would be completely against the website being based on anything except good deeds and becoming an online gang. That's exactly the type of mentality that we're trying to break down because so many members come in here acting like that on boards where it's not appreciated.

Trying to find the effort to write the second email but I seem to have hit an apathetic wall.

Going to get it done soon though.

Okay, actually did get around to writing up a draft.
I tried to combine Inuhakka's and Barabi's, while keeping in a touch of the old about and adding a few touches.

Greetings and welcome to the Dollars!

Just who are the dollars?
The Dollars is an open topic BBS (Bulletin Board System), that does not need an account, welcomes all kinds of people, and encourages a helpful, discussion-based atmosphere. There is a range of topics for people to discuss, new things to learn, and new people to meet each day!

All kinds of all types are welcome on the BBS; as long as you respect others and post maturely, your age, ethnicity, personality, economic status, and abilities have absolutely no influence on your status as a Dollar! Please note that because there is no heavy pre-set constraints on where you post or what you post, it is up to you to keep the BBS lawful and clean. For each board there is a short description near the top of the page; please check that your thread fits into the guidelines before posting it!

Although we are mainly a site used for discussion, this does not limit those who want to go out and make the world a better place. There is a board where fellow Dollars can congregate to post ideas for Missions, or to report their progress on them. However, please do not attempt to force others to partake in Missions; that section of the site is strictly voluntary and should be participated in by choice.

For new members to the BBS, it might be good to hang around for a bit before becoming a fully active member. Before beginning to make threads, please: introduce yourself on the Introductions board, read this thread, and just observe for a while!

Once again, greetings; we are the Dollars, and we welcome you with open arms!


Thoughts?

That's perfect, imo. Anyone else?

>>50 There are some minor corrections I'd make.

"there is no heavy pre-set constraints on where you post"

Don't think the 'heavy pre-set' is necessary. Instead I'd say "it is up to you to follow the rules and keep the BBS lawful and clean." I know what you are going for there but heavy pre-set seems awkward to me. Also change 'is' to 'are'.

"All kinds of all types are welcome on the BBS; as long as you respect others and post maturely, your age, ethnicity, personality, economic status, and abilities have absolutely no influence on your status as a Dollar"

Should probably be two sentences, split at 'Your age', and then change the semicolon to a comma.

I really like it. It remains sufficiently neutral while clearly stating the main rules of the site. The explanation of a BBS was obviously not necessary, as even a 12 year old child should be able to understand this.

You definitely have my vote.

>>50 Excellent! I think it is a very accurate description of what the entire site is all about. I also agree with Inuhakka. After reading this even our younger members should have no issue understanding this.

>>52 I think mentioning the reason you have enforce yourself might be good so we don't sound like dicks, but I did add in "follow the rules", because that just adds that lil bit of casualness.

Good point about the age thing, added that in.

Okay! Here is the latest version: If it goes till tonight without any changes, I'll send it in.

"Just who are the dollars?
The Dollars website is an open topic BBS (Bulletin Board System), that does not need an account, welcomes all kinds of people, and encourages a helpful, discussion-based atmosphere. There is a range of topics for people to discuss, new things to learn, and new people to meet each day!

All kinds of all types are welcome on the BBS; as long as you respect others and post maturely. Your age, ethnicity, personality, economic status, and abilities have absolutely no influence on your status as a Dollar! Please note that because there are no heavy restraints on where you post or what you post, it is up to you to follow the rules and keep BBS lawful and clean. For each board there is a short description near the top of the page; please check that your thread fits into the guidelines before posting it!

Although we are mainly a site used for discussion, this does not limit those who want to go out and make the world a better place. There is a board where fellow Dollars can congregate to post ideas for Missions, or to report their progress on them. However, please do not attempt to force others to partake in Missions; that section of the site is strictly voluntary and should be participated in by choice. 

For new members to the BBS, it might be good to hang around for a bit before becoming a fully active member. Before beginning to make threads, please: introduce yourself on the Introductions board, read this thread, and just observe for a while!

Once again, greetings; we are the Dollars, and we welcome you with open arms!"

>>54 "Introductions board, read this thread, and just observe for a while!"
is there supposed to be a hyperlink there for this or did you just fuck up

>>55 I removed the href in hopes that it would just show itself as a half formed hyperlink but instead it deleted the text.

(it was going to link to Barabi's "read this if you're new" thread, btw.

Honest reading all these got annoying. Many people here said they want to change something on the site or name. If you really don't like then go make your own website with your own name you like. This is a website that is made it seem like it was in the anime and its up to you if you want to says your apart of Dollars or not. But the group is made and their is no leader of power system to change the group, so just deal with it or leave. You'll always be welcome but if you decide to come back.

>>58
>there is no leader or power system to change the group

Oh, except that one Admin called Reltair who, you know, created the site and, you know, agrees with us?

Sent the email in to him a week or so ago but Reltair is doing his usual thing and taking ages to reply.

>>59 maybe bossman just hates you :D

>>60 Probs

either that or he just doesnt want to give a response that would probably so greatly affect opinions, and would much rather just watch n see what we decide on our own

>>62 He responded to my first email saying 'if you guys draft me up something I'll change it' (I think it's somewhere earlier in the thread). So he should be getting around to it at some point.

"Hi Solace,

Thanks, and sorry about the late reply.
The original "About us" I wrote didn't emphasize being a "mission-oriented" organization so much, but it was changed to this current one a while back at the request of some members. It does mention " .. .place for general discussion of shared hobbies and interests." but I can see new members being confused.

Sure thing, I can change it if you guys come up with a revised text.

Thanks,
Reltair"

>but it was changed to this current one a while back at the request of some members.

And it would appear that those members specifically have all forgotten just why it was written in this new way in the first place. Let me refresh your memory.

I'm sure some of you remember the Shriner's Hospital Project. It was something another user had come up with where people were submitting artworks which they would deliver to patients at their local hospital. It was one of the first collaborative efforts accomplished by the BBS group.

After that, more ideas began to pop up. Soon a Missions board was created, and with that, some of the regulars (myself included) felt it was time for a change. That About Page was something I actually wrote for one of the first missions ever posted on the Missions Sub-Board. It was for a school supplies mission. It was the first of many things to come.

And for about a year, things did come. There were many exceptional ideas being tossed around. But as the series proper became more popular, the same ideas were getting rehashed. People stopped coming up with new things for us to try. And people began to shut down.

To those of you who are requesting the About page be changed, and fuck, to those of you suggesting the BBS Name be changed as well, I am very disappointed. If this change happens, it won't be because of what the anime has caused, but because the members have all lost sight of what could have been.

And it's because of that, that I have dropped out of the BBS for so long, and only come back every couple of months. To see if I can bring something with me to revitalize the spirit that used to flourish here. I hope that isn't a fool's errand. I honestly hope.

im tired n dont really feel like thinking at the moment, so ill try to make this brief.
i think a lot of people at their core are fine with what the missions board as a whole is trying to accomplish, but the over saturation of the ideal has just corrupted it in such a way that all people see are these little things that dont really accomplish anything other than inflating the own users ego. it misleads the new ones, and causes the old ones to become bitter. in regards to the name change ideas that float around... id say ignore them. they arent something that would ever end up succeeding, no make how much some people despise what in one way or another resulted from the sites popularity.

i get why you leave, and i dont blame you.

>>64

I am not sure how the newly proposed About takes away from what you want. I am also not sure how the current About promotes coming up with new ideas, although I didn't see the About before that one.

My problem with the current About is it doesn't really give a clear idea of what the site actually is. The general idea is everyone is equal and we want to make the world a better place (which is true), but in my opinion that isn't really appropriate for what a lot of people will be seeing as a first impression of the site. I think it should be a more specific description of what this site is. The site is not purely for discussion, in the same way that it is also not purely for doing missions.

The site in its entirety is not for coming up with ideas for good deeds to do in the world. That is a part of the site, just like discussion of various topics is a part of the site. The About should be completely neutral, and explain that both aspects of this site exist.

The people I have a problem with are not people who come up with ideas for good deeds, but those who chastise other Dollars for simply using the site as it is intended. I do not believe that has to happen in order for there to be a thriving environment for discussion of missions.

That being said, I definitely see what you are saying about a decline in the quality of the discussion in the Missions Board. But again, I don't see how the current About contributes to a solution to that problem, or how the proposed change affects that contribution. What would you suggest to revitalize the Dollars spirit?

>>66 At the time of writing, the About Page was a step toward something greater than the sum of its parts and was intended as a symbolic piece with which to rally critical thought. What I see it being changed to, at least through the eyes of people in this thread, is a Pre-FAQ/Code-of-Conduct page, and deliberate attempts to shy away from the Missions Board in its entirety (ironically, the ones shying away are the ones who worked with me to help perpetuate Missions in the first place).

For years, the protocol was: you entered the site, you read the About Page, you read the FAQ, and you made your own judgments. If you wanted to do your own thing, that was fine. But a lot of people were trying to rally support for all sorts of things, on and off the Missions board. I'd seen wonderful discussions in News, Personal, and Technology all attributing to this fact by fostering not only discussion, but avenues for change which could be expanded on later.

With that said, I don't know what would revitalize the spirit of the original group. I don't know what to try which hasn't already been tried, and though giving up would sadden me to no end, the more I think about it, the more I realize that maybe my way of thinking is too conservative for the direction of the site.

Last night got me really emotional about all this because as someone who's seen this place grow, it's hard to just relinquish it to a new set of minds who won't hold the BBS in the same standing. But since many in the older generation also feel that way, I mustn't stand in the way of that. I must respectfully let it go.

I'll still be around, and I'll still be perpetuating the old way of thinking in the way that I see fit. Last night I posted a thread for a project (in Main, not Missions) and I'll see if anyone either joins me or piggybacks off of that. Additionally, I'll still answer questions of people who need help; that won't change.

But I remain firm on my disapproval of this suggestion. That won't change either. If the name is changed as Thiamor suggests (and goddamn, I don't know why you of all people have taken that stance), then the Dollars as all of us knew it will simply cease to exist. Whatever happens from there is anyone's guess.

>>67 do you think the about page is fine as it is

>>68 Having slept on it, I'm a little more open to the page changing, but I'm still against the way some members think it should be. If the About page is to become nothing more than a Code-of-Conduct statement, then no, don't change it. But if it's going to change to something which strengthens the community in a sense that it motivates people to be active contributors, then I'm not as opposed.

>>69 would you mind coming up with a draft?

>>70 If I must.

"We are the Dollars, and depending on who you ask, it is a group of many and varied interests. But no matter how unique each individual member may be, it is the understanding and acceptance of all peoples which keeps us united. Established in 2010 by Reltair, we began simply as an interepretation of a fictuous concept. However, through the input of hundreds of members over several years, this Bulletin Board System has grown into a diverse community of passionate and inquisitive minds.

Today, the Dollars is populated by all kinds of people from all over the world, sharing interests in current events, artistic media, technology, sports, music, or just those who wish to make friends and talk casually among one another. Conversations are open to everyone and constructive input is always valued.

And of course, among us are those who desire to hold true to the BBS's namesake, and to become a collective with which to instill peace and prosperity in the world, from behind the scenes. Well, there is definitely a place for that too here, and if you feel that sense of duty, you are encouraged to speak your mind and add new ideas to the Missions Board. It is entirely up to you.

To everyone who visits the Dollars BBS; whether a reader, a writer, an artist, a gamer, a hobbyist, an otaku, or anything else under the sun - there will always be a place for you to speak your mind. So do not be afraid. Jump in. Join us."

>>71 I really like this. I believe this paints a better picture of the site, and the members. It is also well written and easily understood.

>>64 Just like how you changed the About as the site was changing, we're changing the About as the site has changed again. The Missions board has become watered down. The new members read the About page, decide they want to change the world, then spam unoriginal threads we've gotten twelve times. They refuse to participate in the most complex threads, including those you've introduced previously. They won't even describe their missions with more than a few sentences.

MK, you've been gone for a bit so you probably don't know nor appreciate this, but I have been trying so fucking hard this past year to get the Missions board back to what it was. I spent a month going through what turned out to only be the first half of the enormous archive picking through the duplicates, which were and are almost every other thread. Not to mention that the mods haven't been paying any mind at all to the board, leaving many of the threads I linked them to still there to be bumped up over and over again. I have tried to give insight in threads to inspire users to go above and beyond. I've even had threads that I liked be moved to the SMT in an attempt to inspire users to go above and beyond in their posts. For about a month I solidly bumped good threads to keep examples at the top of the board to, again, inspire new members to do the same with their posts.

Nope. Of course that would have no effect because the first thing the new members do is come to the Missions board and post. They either post just once or bump up thirty of the same threads saying they're going to do it then never come back. The reason I don't want the Missions board to be such a big part of the About is because it needs dedicated, repeat users. It needs people who actually want to help instead of people looking to inflate their own ego.

I know you meant well by changing the About to have the site in its entirety centered around the concept of doing good, but I truly and honestly think that the huge amount of traffic to the Missions board is the reason that it has been reaching its downfall as the BBS populous increased. It reached its worst point when the anime was near the end of its airing. Luckily, though, the anime has stopped airing and the traffic is slightly lower now; we're also getting a lot more users that are sticking around. This is the perfect time to clean the board up and fix the About so that it doesn't happen again. The Missions board should be for members who find it, realize its value, and participate in a way that is truly helpful to someone or something - not for every single five minute member who read the About to spread their shit all over.

Of course, the other problem with this is that the concepts of the About have been dragged all over site. Even in our basic debate threads, we get people saying that the site is "meant to be nice" and that we "can't be rude" when debates and arguments are a regular (and often refreshing thing) that have been a part of this site for years. Whenever we try to clean up the boards (yes, even when we're being very respectful about it), we get bitched off because, according to them, the BBS is apparently about making people happy and only that, forgot organization or effort. And what gave them that attitude? The About page.

It worked for its previous memberbase, but it just isn't working for the current one and most likely won't work in the future. It happens, MK. It's nothing personal, and you really shouldn't take it as such.

As for it being a "Code-of-Conduct" statement, the proposals I see above each only have a short section regarding how you should act in comparison to how the site is laid out, and considering how few members actually read the FAQ, I do believe they need something else loosely guiding them on how the site works, especially since many new members don't seem to have experience with anonymous boards. That's for both their sake and ours. I believe that the "About" page shouldn't just be to brag about what the site is - it should help members who are starting up understand how to get started in addition to explaining what the site is about; we don't have any other page that has solid information in it to explain this to them because they're thrown immediately into the rough discussions of the BBS after putting the password in.


As for your concept, I don't disagree with it too much, but there are a few parts that bother me.

"who desire to hold true to the BBS's namesake" We may have taken the name from the anime, but even in the anime, the Dollars aren't about maintaining peace and prosperity in the world; they chat on a website and help a few of their friends. That isn't a mission to world peace; making it such in the About will only inspire fanfags to think too hard on it. It also makes it seem like this was what the BBS was truly made for, which is the whole thing we're trying to pull away from in the About. We want users to think that the BBS is a casual community site with a section for good deeds, not to think we were a site made for missions that got watered down by fools who post in other board topics and don't participate in the missions, which is how it feels when reading that paragraph.

Also, the otaku thing. plzno. I'd be up for "anime fan", but with all of the debates and arguments about the word "otaku" over the years, I really don't think we should have it in an official page on the site. And yo grammar on that last paragraph is wrong, too. It should be a ":" instead of that first ";". The next part is missing a word (should be "whether [b]you're[/b]". And finally, that last "-" should be a ",".

And it might be best to not be too vague at the end; you're saying that "there" is a place, but you don't say what it is. It's obvious, yeah, but it'd sound better if it was "this will always be" or "there will always be... here". The "do not be afraid" part is also awkward. I'd say to go with, "Don't be afraid." I know you were trying to go for professional writing with no contractions, but that sentence just sounds too stiff to be welcoming.

Okay so, I'm done nitpicking for now ;♥; plzdonthurtmeiluvu.

>>73 Those square brackets, though.

I also don't think you can pin people's ignorance on the About page. Possible, but more likely than not they haven't even read it.

I can attest to your efforts to clean up the Missions Board, though, so thank you.

>>69 I guess I see where you are coming from. The reason I wanted to have the rules of the site in the About was because I thought people are more likely to read the About than the entire FAQ. However, I realize now people are always going to start messing up right off the get-go, no matter how many rules we post.

In my eyes, we don't do a great job of explaining how to use the site properly if a newcomer has not used a BBS before. This probably contributes to the large number of mistakes people make. At the same time, most new members don't read the FAQ in part or in whole, so it's difficult to pinpoint the real problem.

I guess the FAQ should be for the rules and the About should be about the idea of the site.

That being said, it's already been updated.

>>74 ikr. I've been on a lot of BBC forums lately, so I'm out of habit with HTML.

And I'm sorry it came off that way; I meant that the About page is *one* of the (many) reasons. And you'd be surprised how many noobs read it. It's gotten directly referenced to quite a few times when talking to noobs (the moderately intelligent ones that can debate for a post or two before giving up).

And I see that .o. such update, wow.
Reltair's timing is... Yeah. >_>
\thoughisecretlyprefertheoneheputupsoitsokay

Barabi, you make good points as always (though the grammar thing could have been done a variety of ways - either with two dashes, a colon and a dash like you stated, or two semicolons). All things considered, this site is just not how it used to be, and you're taking the steps needed to ensure quality control, which I respect.

But I've already laid out my reasons for disagreeing with that sentiment. It's just me and my old way of thinking, I suppose. As this thread has now accomplished its goal there really is no more room for discussion.

The things I said in post >>67 still hold, meaning I will still act according to how I feel, regardless of the direction the BBS takes one or even five years from now (if we're all still around it by then).

>>76 Unless you're thinking of some kind of fancy British grammar, my points at the end of that post are still valid.

"To everyone who visits the Dollars BBS;"

Semi-colons are used to separate two complete thoughts, whereas this is an incomplete statement that couldn't stand on its own. An emdash could not be used either seeing as it's not a complete thought. Either a comma or a colon would have to be used here; I suggest a colon as per a personal preference.

"whether [you're] a [this or that] - there will always be a place for you to speak your mind"

A hyphen is generally used in casually written sentences to add a separate after thought (if you will) to a complete sentence when the after thought itself is not complete, meanwhile an emdash is used to add a related thought between either end of a complete sentence or to connect two complete thoughts like a semicolon. Again, the part before the hyphen is a sentence fragment because of the implications of "whether" and is broken specifically because of the hyphen use; the only way the sentence could be read appropriately would be as is without the "whether" or with a change in punctuation. The change would have to be a comma regardless because of how the sentence starts. It's the equivalent of saying, "If you do this, that will happen." The first part can't stand on its own but still needs to have that comma separating it by standard AE grammar rules.

At the very least, all the grammar and composition books that I have explain it as such (in more complex terminology). If the rules have changed recently, by all means, link me to a credible source so I know I'm not missing anything major when I'm editing o-o

>>77 "whether [you're] a [this or that]" may not be a sentence but it is a subordinate clause (seriously, are we having this conversation right now?). It's serving as a modifier to the other subordinate clause in that sentence ("To everyone who visits the Dollars BBS"). Really, there are a variety of ways to arrange these statements, such as:

"To everyone who visits the Dollars BBS, there will always be a place for you to speak your mind." or "Whether [you're] a [this or that], there will always be a place for you to speak your mind." (Additionally, since I know you'll try to ding me on it, the "you're" is implicit, and is what makes that a subordinate clause in the first place.)

A colon and a dash, as you suggested, would be grammatically correct, but would improperly put emphasis on the wrong place from a linguistic point of view (turning an afterthought into a forethought). Yes, I get this is the internet and that's hardly relevant; regardless, I type how I speak and that's the approach I was trying for.

Now, it turns out after reviewing some material on the net that no, you can't use semicolons after subordinate clauses. That was indeed a mistake, and I will own up to that. As for the em dashes - hyphens, if you will - this is what I found.

"Em Dash
An em dash is the width of an m. Use an em dash sparingly in formal writing. In informal writing, em dashes may replace commas, semicolons, colons, and parentheses to indicate added emphasis, an interruption, or an abrupt change of thought." - http://www.grammarbook.com/punctuation/dashes.asp

If you take into consideration that the first part is a clause or complete thought (it's an address to the reader), and that the second is a modifier but still a clause (because of an implicit "you are defined as being") then we come to the following conclusions:

- Semicolon and Semicolon: Incorrect (Bad MKOLLER Bad)
- Colon and Em Dash: Correct grammatically, but it would change the emphasis
- Em Dash and Em Dash: Highly informal, but at the very least valid.

Oh, and you could do a comma, then a colon as well. There's always that approach. But perhaps the most important lesson to be learned here is that implicit words still matter!

>>78 (Yes, we're really having this conversation right now xD)

I was under the impression that using an emdash to change the tone was only acceptable between two full sentences (excluding a dialogue situation where part of the first sentence may be cut off), which I now see was partially incorrect.

And hyphens, endashes, and emdashes are completely different with wildly different uses o: No reason to combine them in your explanation.

But yeah, that's good enough for me lmao

>>45 to dig up old conversations, it's safe to say a good few dollars members are otaku. We were all obsessed enough about the anime to look for this site, right? Also, I'm sure Durarara isn't the first anime you've all seen. Yeah, the Dollars-BBS role players ARE annoying, but at least they're not shipping Shizaya, telling you why hetalia is the best anime ever and farting whilst trying to get a DVD limited edition copy of home stuck out of their buttcheeks.

>>80 You clearly haven't been here long. That's exactly what they're doing. I'm amazed we've managed to keep all the Shizaya doujinshis off everything except Art for a few months.

>>81 honestly I kind of have been gone a while.. I haven't seen any home stuck in the animation section so.. That's a plus at least. I've been here for 2 years at this point though