In the show, Ryugamine Mikado gets called a brat for wanting the Dollars to do good deeds, such as covering up graffiti. That got me thinking about constructive vandalism, doing positive things without somebody's agreement.
The problem with that is that whether you tag a wall or cover it up with paint, you are still de facto damaging somebody else's property.
Personally speaking, my surroundings are pretty dirty, people with no discipline or manners smear their tags or even non-tag scribbles over public service panels or leave trash in public parks. The garbage men are heavily overworked here in Berlin and as a consequence, there are many areas that are really dirty.
Because of that, I have started to sympathise with the act of constructive vandalism, as it would still be helping your community, even if it was semi-legal, which basically means outright illegal.
I have talked to some friends from the web and RL and some Dollars on the discord about that and the main consensus is the following:
a) It's okay as long as you don't get caught.
b) you need a team
c) it's okay if it reduces the overall damage to the property
What are your thoughts on constructive vandalism? I'd be happy to hear.
-AmazingHoffman

You should try to get permission from some of the private property owners. If it's as bad as you say, I imagine at least a handful of them would be more than willing to take up the offer.

Also, please use the missions board. hu

http://dollars-bbs.org/missions/

>>3 muck this is a discussion about it not a mission xd

>>4 Thanks for backing me up, Shiro. :)
>>2 Not the best example, but here's a service box (is that what you call it) in my surroundings. There's literally nothing without such marks. Who would you contact in such a case? If not even the city administration does anything against that, why contact anyone at all and take matters into your own hands?
https://imgur.com/5KCxGrq
https://imgur.com/vinJQdA

Seems like a good idea to me. My surroundings are pretty trash, so it would be nice to work with others to clean things up.

I'm from Germany too and I know that there are so many grafittis in Berlin and other big cities. I live in Köln and there are so many graffitis too. I really like the idea of replacing the grafittis with beautiful pictures, because many graffities are only letters or a penis or something like this and are not nice to look at.

Sorry, mein Englisch ist so schlecht. Ich glaube dass ich jetzt besser mal auf Deutsch schreibe damit du mich auch verstehst. Ich find wirklich dass Graffiti die Umwelt verschandelt, besonders wenn so schöne alte Gebäude mit hässlichen Schriftzügen beschmiert werden. Man sollte echt was dagegen unternehmen. Die Schmierereien zu übermalen ist eine richtig gute Idee. Ich denk nicht, dass es Sachbeschädigung ist wenn die Wand sowieso schon mit Graffiti besudelt ist, die ist dann ja eigentlich eh schon zerstört und man kann es ja nicht mehr schlimmer machen oder? Also ich bin voll dafür und denke dass es eine gute Idee ist. Ich würde des gleiche auch hier in Köln machen, wenn ich Freunde hätte die mit machen würden. Du könntest ja mal bei der Stadt nachfragen ob man so irgendwie eine Anti Graffiti Aktion mal in die Wege leiten könnte oder so was ähnliches. In Berlin gibt es bestimmt auch viele freiwillige, die da gerne helfen würden.

>>7 Don't worry, your English is very nice, I understood you perfectly! Maybe I'd find some Dollars from Berlin who would be up for an action like this.

(For those of you who don't speak German, G.P. talks about how Cologne is full of graffiti as well which annoys him and that he'd be up for some covering up as well.)

Personally I like the idea, and act, of constructive vandalism. I think that people that go out of their way to perform acts that better their community should be commended for their work, especially if they aren't getting any sort of recognition for it. It really speaks to the character of the people doing it. I think the problem with it is when it comes to someone's personal property and they actually wanted whatever you're attempting to help fix there in the first place. I think as long as you attempt to keep everything under wraps and you are truly doing things that are beneficial to the community then it is a great deed.

Do you actually think covering up graffiti would change anything at all?
If you're covering up graffiti with paint, you need to be a gifted painter, otherwise you're just covering up crappy graffiti with crappy art, which isn't actually any better in the end. Even if you're a talented artist there are still people who don't like art at all. They won't care for your "good deeds" but just think that another idiot painted the walls with new bullshit. However, if you're covering the walls with plain colours, you're just creating new space for new graffiti - won't change anything either.
Furthermore, graffiti is also a way to mark a territory as property of a certain gang. Covering up graffiti is like pissing in someone's territory. Want to start a gang war? Have fun.

>>10 First of all, I am only speaking about plain paint, why would I want to spray graffiti if I am annoyed by the overabundance of those in my area? Maybe I am too naive when it comes to that, but I think that at least a bit of tidiness, even if it only lasts for a while, is better than walking through dirty streets all the time. And I don't think that my city has any major gangs that anyone knows of, lol. Thanks for your thoughts, Chronos!

Bump

>>11 Then you're literally just creating new space for other graffiti.
That's pretty senseless, to be honest.

The problem of garbage and graffiti in Berlin is most likely caused by the high percentage of foreigners, therefore it's a social problem which won't be solved with constructive vandalism.

>>13 Way to apply your geopolitical values to a simple situation that plagues cities literally around the world.

Do you really hate the idea of community service that much? Or you just getting a kick out of arguing?

>>14 Nah, I'm just stating my thoughts on constructive vandalism.
And in my opinion it's senseless to cover up graffiti with plain paint, for a plain wall won't stay plain for long. OP would just create a loop by covering up graffiti to repeat the same action over and over again, because everytime they'd cover up graffiti, someone would just use that space for new graffiti.

I've got a friend in Germany. I've been to Berlin and I've been to other German cities, and I came to the conclusion that cities with a higher percentage of foreigners are indeed messier than others.

>>16 No you are not only stating your thoughts, you are trying to make >>1 look like his idea is silly, Chronos.
You are right in this one point that there are more graffities and garbage in bigger cities with more foreigners. But graffities are not only sprayed by foreigners, you sound a little bit like a racist when you say this. I believe that there will be people that will spray graffiti at the cleaned walls, but if nobody starts cleaning up the walls then you can't make the city more beautiful and it will always stay ugly and untidy. It is a question of good will and good will don't needs a sense.

Honestly, I think street art/vandalism that improves the state of a building is ok, just as long as you don't get caught. Some graffiti is useless though.

>>13 Well, Berlin as the largest city in Germany (roughly 3.5 million people) does have a lot of foreigners, but it's not that bad like everyone makes it seem. Most are Russians, Vietnamese and Turkish from way back in the GDR. I think graffiti comes from the general lack of discipline people have around here, not only foreigners but everyone. People just throw out their trash on the street knowing that the garbage people will (hopefully) pick it up. This is not a problem of multiculturalism, which has enriched Germany and especially Berlin extremely. Also, I would assume that cities with a lower percentage of foreigners are mostly more like homes for the elderly (where no foreigner would move to, no opportunities, etc.). And I don't think that elderly people would go around spraying stuff on their neighbour's houses.

>>17 I agree absolutely. German cities are ugly already, so every little bit of improvement helps, right?

>>18 thanks for your feedback! 👍

>>19
>I don't think that elderly people would go around spraying stuff on their neighbour's houses.
Don't be so sure about that :)

>>19 You're incredibly naive, no offence though.
Graffiti and rubbish on the streets might be a result of the lack of general discipline. However, where do you think does the mentioned general lack of discipline come from?
You can't state that more people = more graffiti. Have you ever been to Tokyo? There is barely rubbish on the streets and there is barely any graffiti compared to Germany. In my opinion graffiti can be seen as a consequence of the formation of different local groups/gangs, which again can be seen as a consequence of multiculturalism.

If you really want to do a significant change, it needs more than just covering up graffiti with plain paint. However, covering up walls could make a fair beginning.
Anyways, before starting anything on your own, I'd recommend visiting any local authorities to ask for a permission to cover up graffiti. It isn't worth the consequences when you get caught painting up graffiti without permission, for I actually think that your plain walls won't stay plain for long.

>>14 He Findmuck, your intentions might be good, but I realize how you jump on threads to scold others alot. Chronos says harsh and negative things, but at least they tell us their opinion and point out flaws. You only jump on a discussion to complain about others without saying anything related to the topic, what isnt any better than Chronos radical view tbh. Just saying it. Dont wanna pick up a fight tho.

I like the idea of constructive vandalism. Its better than graffiti.

>>22 You literally know nothing about muck or his intentions, stop assuming shit

>>23 Ok. Sorry that I assumed that his intentions were good, they are obviously bad then. Satisfied?

>22>>24
>Dont wanna pick up a fight tho
>Responds with inflammatory and sarcastic post

I dont wanna fight with Findmuck coz I respect them. Doesnt mean that I dont fight with Shiro when they are playing asshat here.

>>22 Scold? Hardly. I responded to Chronos like I did because they made a pretty strong claim without initially backing it up with any evidence or experiences.

To say I only jump on threads to "complain about others" is simply untrue.

Though I'll admit I'm totally willing to call people out on their bullshit. That doesn't actually happen that often.

You could have just asked for their reasons. You mustnt have asked them whether they hate community service so much or are getting a kick out of arguing. Chronos seems to have a reason for this opinion and you made them look like a troll here.

Ok. I never saw you doing something else, but ok.

>>28 I wanted them to back their claim. A claim I felt wasn't based in fact. They totally did. It didn't devolve into anything else.

I asked them if they hated the idea of community service because they keep using the "why do good in a world so bad" excuse, which is super weak.

I asked if they were just getting a kick out of arguing, because based on their activity as a whole, I'd say they totally love to argue.

Chronos is a big boy. He can defend himself.

It's funny you say I made him look like a troll, because he has to constantly defend himself from others already labeling him as one.

To be completely honest I felt a little guilty after responding so harshly. I didn't want chronos to take it personally. I only justified it because they can totally be a dick from time to time. And i figured they had thick enough skin to respond rationally. I'm actually really happy with the response I got. It was as informative as I hoped. Even if I still might not agree with how strongly they feel.

yea draw dicks everywhere

>>30 lol
Your response wasn't "harshly" at all.

>>22 FindMuck stated his view on constructive vandalism in >>2.
I suggest reading all comments before making unjustified accusations, which makes you look like an idiot in the end.

Well, this discussion has turned into a way more heated debate than I thought it would.

>>33 We have people here who make a heated debate out of everything.

Aaaaaaand back to the topic!!!

I like the idea constructive vandalism. Doing good deeds is a first step to make the world better. Even if cleaning up graffiti doesn't affect the whole world, it affects your surroundings and that's enough. Also, when one starts covering up graffiti others may follow. You could search for Dollars in your town and form a team to cover up graffiti. On the countries board is a thread for German Dollars, perhaps you can find a team there.

Just have one last question: Is constructive vandalism only covering up graffiti or are other acts also included? I don't know much about constructive vandalism tbh. And yea, I'm too lazy to look it up now. Sorry. Lmao.

*the idea <>of<> constructive vandalism.

>>36 your HTML stuff are leaking. Ill just pretend you did that on purpose.

>>37 I did it wrong. Lmao. Don't know what exactly I did wrong tho. It normally always works that way.

>>35 Other acts... umm... maybe something like caring for public parks that have not been cared for forever (although there are things you need to watch out for like bird breeding seasons whilst cutting hedges or the effects of the seasons, etc.) or picking up trash? Other ideas anyone?

>>40 Picking up trash seems to be very good imo. There is too much trash on the streets.

Ya my hometown has trash every were.

hey TheBigflames that not good

Yeah. good idea..

bump for more opinions! :)

Bumpy bumpy! I'm glad that so many people seem to be interested in this topic!

I say burn it all, the good gets us no where anymore, so the best idea to do is burn and start over, take it from a pyromaniac.

>>47 edgy

>>47 Could you please not troll?

I think it would be good if we could form local groups (doesn't need to be only Dollars) and could try to cover up graffitties and clean up parks. We must take our environment more serious.

Things like this is why I decided to check out the dollars I figured I may find some like minded individuals here

>>49 I agree completely.

>>50 It's good to have like-minded allies, but it's not very efficient if they are spread out across the whole world. :D

>>47 Pyromaniac? more like Arson

hihi nobody is interested in discussions. ppl have no brains. ppl like memes and bs. ppl dont know how to talk to each other anymore. thos world is so sad.

>>54 This is some reasons for why you got banned at that time

>>54 Many people are interested in discussions but what will you say? This is not a real discussion it is a collection of opinions.

>>55 I think Maimai was banned because she impersonated Shiro. XD

>>56 Yeah, that's quite fitting, a collection of opinions. I am really happy that this conversation has been so productive so far.

I think if you are going to try to cover up graffiti you should try what Chronos suggested(>>21) and ask the authorities if doing something like that would be okay. It wouldn't hurt to know whether there might be consequences.

I think the idea of picking up trash in parks and other areas is great. It would be fairly simple and if you can't get people to help, it's easy enough to pick up trash by yourself. Though, it would be more fun to have company^^

>>59 You're probably right. Writing an e-Mail shouldn't hurt. And yeah, picking up trash alone sounds like hell. Although, there was a report about someone doing that on Berlin TV recently. Props to her, although I'd prefer to do that with company. Also, I think that giving interviews like that and boasting about how great your impact is is kinda un-dollar-esque.
https://www.rbb-online.de/abendschau/archiv/20171217_1930/adventsengel.html

If you are saying that its only ok if you don't get caught, would't that be the same as committing a regular crime? I'm all for clearing away graffiti and renovating and area, but If its only ok if you don't get caught? That is the usual reply to talking about murder, It doesn't matter if you take out the criminals and corrupt politicians, If its only "ok" if you get caught then it must not be ok. I'm not equating this with murder as that is far more serious, but if you would get in trouble for being caught, is this really acceptable?

>>61 yea >>1 a) is a silly argument. This is why some ppl said that it's important to check out the consequences first. Only when you get permission to cover up graffiti it's really ok. I would say everything that is forbidden is a crime, no matter if it is good deeds or not.

>>63 The arguments AmazingHoffman listed in a) b) c) aren't his own arguments. He listed what other people on discord, the web or irl said to this topic to give us points to discuss about.

Well this has been fun. Honestly though, if someone wants to do this they won't pay heed to any laws against it.