The purpose of this thread is to promote active discussion on changes and activity within our community. Any and all input is welcome, and we would all appreciate open-mindedness and serious conversation. Thank you.
-Souvalen

Also, in case it gets asked, I am Maerizlos. I decided to post under a more recognizable name for those of you who are active in communities outside the BBS itself, particularly the IRC chatroom. I apologize for any confusion.

The mods destroyed the only amount of real discussion in years. 10/10 mods.

Regarding the want for immediate communication (along with my suggestion for how to make group meetings possible outside if the site), I suggest Kik if everyone is willing to download it. We can use it for moment to moment communication between ourselves, locally and globally, it would be much easier to get organized.

So, to continue the deleted thread's discussion? Nice.

Anyway, like I was saying before the thread was deleted, I think threads like this are much better for having community discussion than to go on the more closed off chats, since any newcommer to the conversation can just read the thread in order to get the gist of what's going on on the conversation, and the format allows everyone to have a pretty equal say on the topic.

>>3 Probably due to me sending Reltair an email to have it deleted.

Why was the other thread taken down? Is censorship taking over the Dollars-BBS now as well? This is not heading in a good direction...

Well then, we'll start a new thread, and give them no motive to take it down. The conversation itself wasn't garbage, but the hostility needed to stop to be able to really talk.

Also you all will have enough time to fix up community organization and discussion and have it work, since when the new season of DRRRR comes out, this place will be flooded with newbies.

>>6 Let's actually use this thread to keep the meaningful conversation in and the anger from the other thread out please.

>>4
>>5
Kik only works on smartphones. I don't have a smartphone and not everyone has smartphone. A better medium would be Cryptocat or IRC. I'm personally voting for Cryptocat because the info leakage is minimal at best.

>>5 I agree totally. But an immediate chat is more for organizing events and missions, the threads are still the main form of communication.

Though the absolute best thing would be an app with both aspects *COUGH*Reltair*COUGH*

>>4 I am not opposed to Kik as a way to begin conversation. However, let's also not turn this thread into a giant Kik username post-fest. If someone thinks we should start another board somewhere else for the usernames to post that, then we should.

>>11
Once it's fixed a bit due to bugs..I do have a DRRR chat.

>>14
Will you make it open source :D?

>>11 IRC is designed for this sort of thing, but the current Dollars channel would get flooded with new members (good) who may need proper tutorials on how IRC works (Bad, unless we can organize the current IRC members to teach the new IRC members.) Cryptocat doesn't have logging either, which would be useful for this sort of thing. Kik and Line are the cleanest place to have discussion, however IRC may be best suited. Or we can do IRC, Kik, and here, since it doesn't have to be limited as long as we all speak on it.

>>13 Yes.

>>11 Great point, but it's still so effective. It just sucks that not everyone can get in on it. Do you think Cryptocat could work just as well? I only say so because in the app, one gets notifications, which may not come with Cryptocat, and that can make all the difference.

>>15 That would be up to my host and programmer.

I am going to post the Kik Username thread on the Mission section. Any who wish to join the IRC chatroom may click the link for IRC at the right side of their webpage, above the QR code.

>>19
Go into the random thought thread and make sure who all is cool with that idea before posting it.

The reason I like a DRRChat so much is because once you leave, and go back in, all posts are removed. Or it should be, like it was on some others. We plan to fix that bug in ours, and turn on password protected rooms eventually.

The main issue is an avatar/bubble bug and the bug keeping our avatar uploader from working.

>>17
I do believe there are apps for Cryptocat as well but I don't know about notifications tho. I'll have to check it out

>>19
Cryptocat has no learning curve which you were complaining about earlier. And works on Phone and web browser.

>>18
Did you fork it from the code.google.com one? If so, you have to release the source actually.

>>21 My apologizes Thiamor, I already posted it on the Missions board because I thought it was the most appropriate. I figured this is more of a "Mission" than most of the missions on the board since it's a project in itself. Here is a link to the board http://dollars-bbs.org/missions/res/1417995890.html

>>22
Cryptocat does that as well ;)

Delete the topic and remake it before someone posts. It needs to be more detailed.

>>26 Deleted. Since you seem to have a distinctive idea of how you'd like this done, would you like to create the topic and link it?

>>23
I happen to be an expert on this subject, and I think that Cryptocat is better. So I support this idea!

>>26
>>27
You never know about Kik and I guess it is true, that some people cannot use Kik. Even IRC is better, just because of the availability. I wouldn't want other users to be excluded from an actual and meaningful discussion.

>>27
Just make a Cryptocat room and tell people to hop on.

Crypto seems to be a good place to discuss this, everyone has access to it and it doesn't have rampant mods who dislike discussion

>>27
No thanks. Just make sure to explain why it's a mission, why you want to cause more conversation.

>>23
I have no idea where he got it.

>>31
>>17
Thoughts on Crypto? It has mobile and regular web clients, is fairly simple, and pretty lightweight. I can vouch for it if people are interested. I just figured it'd be harder to convince everyone to get a new thing just for this. Here's a link https://crypto.cat

>>30
You can't claim they dislike discussion and please just drop that subject. It's people like you who drives it forward when no one wants to discuss about the mods.

>>31
it looks like you are opposed to all this, why so hostile, Thiamor???

>>35
>>34
Thiamor is just an contrarian. Don't mind him.

>>36
a*

>>35
Not opposed to this, opposed to people who still bring up the mods being opposed to discussion. That was on the other topic and Souvalen asked to keep the animosity from the previous topic out of this topic.

>>38
How is bringing up poor moderation "opposed to discussion"? Banning people that they disagree with or people that even mention it like >>30 is part of the problem

>>38
Yes the mods who deleted the only real discussion in years are ones for stand against all kinds of censorship. On a site with no official rules page and no way to know what we got banned for. 10/10. Mods are butthurt so they're banned anyone that criticizes them for abuse the lack of transparency to do whatever they want.

Also I started a Cryptocat room called Dollars. You guys are welcome to join :>

>>38 Thank you Thiamor. If anyone has ideas on how or where to have communication (Kik or Crypto really, both are good but have issues), please make any thoughts known so we can make this decision swiftly. The purpose of the thread is not to discuss the pros and cons of both clients >_<

The Crypto room's already up, hop on in

All you faggots flapping your gums spouting that you want something to change, then you don't join the chat? Step up bitches

I'm sorry, but if someone were to ask me about the IRC, i would warn them not to trust it. For others who like to express more open and alternative views are chastised- sometimes harshly for they're different views.

Never used cryptocat, can someone link me to the room that we for some reason let the idiot Kami create?

>>46
I prefer the term mad genius :3. https://crypto.cat
Download the extension/addon to your browser
It will ask for a name and room name.
Type your username and type Dollars in the room name
And then you'll be there

The Crypto.cat room will stay open. Also, Kik usernames will be going out. Now that I've thought of it more, why not keep the usernames here until such point comes where it needs it's own thread? Consolidate it for now.

>>45 PM me on IRC, I actually wanted to talk to you about some of that but you left while I was gone for vacation.

I'll have to re-download it, i uninstalled HexChat after i was banned from the Dollars IRC channel by Konkoe (or however you spell the Moderators) and i was pretty badly mocked by Biohaz, Chimera and others, but i will redowwnload it. Thank you Soulvalen.

Bump for revival.

Awesome. Good to know this thread exist.

So far, discussions have been taking place about community events in the near future to help truly interact with one another, but nothing in particular has been really decided upon. Anybody have any ideas they'd like to contribute?

I seem to be late to the party here. I don't want to start an argument, but this thread is confusing and quick to leave a bad taste in someone's mouth.

What on earth are you guys even on about? This thread is at 50+ posts yet has no discernible content other than chatroom comparisons and a large collection of ignorance-driven complaints. What kind of discussions are you really trying to promote?

Speaking as someone who hasn't read the previous "deleted thread" where you were all apparently having some deep discussion on, it'd be appreciated if you could actually explain what's going on in here, as there's no point to this having a thread if all the discussion is going to take place in personal emails and unaffiliated chatrooms.

If you want to discuss changes for the community, then you're going to need to discuss it with the community if you want it to be taken seriously and avoid having anything saged again.





And I see many baseless accusations and misunderstandings in this thread as well. Some of you claim to have been here for years, in which case you should know the common knowledge that mods do not ban here - only the admin. If you were banned site-side or if a thread was outright deleted, that means it was a personal decision by the admin.

However, if you were banned through the IRC, then that's a personal problem with the IRC staff that the site has no control over since, like most of the off-site links, it's managed by third parties.

If you believe that there is some kind of corruption and censorship, then you ought to state it bluntly and email the admin about it to get an explanation instead of making assumptions. Assumptions aren't going to get you anywhere. You obviously aren't taking it seriously if you're only sharing it in the context of this conversation.

>>53
KEKKING. You're so off base thats its funny.

>50+ posts but nothing by baseless accusations and chatroom recommendations
So many things wrong with this. First of all, the only reason why were talking about chatrooms because obviously real time communication is a lot better for planning events/missions/etc etc.

>But nothing was posted back here.
Thats because no one came to none of the chatroom or talks. There is nothing to report back to the thread. Why give the community information they choose not to seek. This thread was on the front page for like 3ish days before sinking down the page. Not a single person posted/join the crypto.cat nor requested info about that. Obviously the community deemed bumping "more important" threads was more valuable.

>Baseless accusations
I don't know what accusations you are talking about specifically but I'll take a shot at it

>Lack of transparency
When you're banned, there is no reason for it. It just says 403 forbidden. You don't know the "offending post" or the rule you have broken or how long you are going to be banned for.

>BUT MUH TERMS OF SERVICE SAYS I DONT HAVE TO GIVE YOU A REASON
Right, but its still dickish thing to do and totally within Kareha, the system that runs that BBS, to do this.

>Mods support censorship
The thread previously didn't break any rules of the site. It was just very critical of the BBS and there were a few dickish comments, made by yours truly, but still doesn't justify deletion of the thread. Also many people that were in the previous thread were banned as well for talking about the mods
in a negative light.I was probably banned for being an asshole, which is a stupid reason, but the other just talked about the mods and my post in a respectable manner.

>BUT YOU'RE MAKING AN ASSUMPTION ABOUT THAT
Right, but I wouldn't need to do this if people were told what they were banned for. But this is rather safe assumption based on what was said in that thread

>BUT THERE IS NO THREAD TO LOOK AT
Exactly, This is why this is censorship.
>Get banned for no reason
>Can't respond properly without reason
>Deletes threads to make sure no evidence for an appeal.
Sounds pretty shitty to me. Also this is why I'm achieving threads locally. Because of shit like this

>HOW DO YOU KNOW THEY WERE NOT LYING ABOUT GETTING BANNED
They have no reason to lie about that and screenshots tend to not lie.

>Kami is an asshole
I am

>Why didn't we explain anything from the previous threads
Because of the ban hammer

>Only admins ban
This is not true. State your source about this because Kareha by default allows mods to ban. Also how would this be "common knowledge". Its not this is stated anywhere that isn't a thread. If it is in a thread, how the hell am I suppose to find it? Randomly clicking on threads until I find everything? KEK
Now if that is true, thats reflects poorly on Reltair for the previously stated reasons and for using excessive force for a situation that was controlling itself.

>Email Reltair
I did.

>Not taking "it" seriously
I don't know what "it" is referring to exactly. The community part? Obviously the community didn't take it seriously. The censorship? I stated everything in my angry email. ? This conversation? Yeah you're right

>>54 "real time communication is a lot better for planning events/missions/etc... Why give the community information they choose not to seek... community deemed bumping 'more important' threads was more valuable"

If you're not going to start the discussions in the thread, there is no purpose to it nor reason to bump it. If you want to have a discussion about something vague like this where not many people have an opinion, you need to start it. There's nothing for the "community" to join in and talk about right now because there's nothing to go off of. You haven't even said what kind of "changes" or "activity" you want.

"I don't know what accusations you are talking about"
Those complaining the BBS having censorship or the mods randomly banning people who disagree, etc.

"When you're banned, there is no reason for it. It just says 403 forbidden. You don't know the "offending post" or the rule you have broken or how long you are going to be banned for."
Then email Reltair and ask. It's not that difficult. I'm fairly sure he doesn't work on this site full time, so he hasn't gotten into the more technical side of it and wouldn't bother giving reason for banning since his email is obvious (and most people work around their ban within a day anyway). After all, he usually only updates when the community agrees on something and emails him asking if it can be done, so it doesn't surprise me that Kareha isn't being used to its full potential.

"The thread previously didn't break any rules of the site."
Are you sure it wasn't just badly made or difficult to understand (or went completely off topic to the point where it wasn't getting back on)? Because the badly made part is what this one is as well. I wouldn't be surprised if it ended up saged and deleted as it is. Some threads don't need a lot in the OP, but in this case, you can't really just say "oh well come discuss community changes here~" without explaining what you mean and expect other users to understand the angle you're going for with it.

"This is why this is censorship."
Deleting a thread isn't 'censorship'. You should be happy they get deleted at all. Could you imagine how chaotic the archives would be if all the permasaged threads were saved? That's why saged threads automatically delete once (or twice??) a week. The previous thread might have been saged right before the auto deletion. Otherwise, you can usually argue your point about why the thread shouldn't be saged, and (in my experience) it will usually get unsaged unless it's blatantly against the rules.

"I was probably banned for being an asshole, which is a stupid reason, "
That would be a reason, yeah. Reltair didn't just make the be-respectful-to-fellow-members thread for fun. I haven't seen the conversation and can't comment on whether the other guy was being respectful, though.

"This is not true. State your source... how would this be 'common knowledge' "
I have no source, sorry. It's pretty obvious. Why do you think threads are saged during floods of spam yet the spammmer still continues (often for hours)? Why do you think it takes so long for a ban? If a mod is already online and saging, there's no reason they wouldn't ban if they had the power to do so on their own.

"I don't know what 'it' is referring to exactly."
The others whining about how they've been 'wronged'. If they think it's a serious problem, they should be contacting Reltair and the IRC admins and sharing the explanations with the community instead of just making butthurt accusations in their cozy little thread.

"I did. ...my angry email."
Good for you. Hopefully you at least made an attempt to be respectful about it.

I don't really get the point of this thread. Isn't this exactly what the Missions board is for?

Also, pretty foolish how everyone cries 'censorship' when people's threads get deleted. The problem is no one says the problem with the thread or how to fix it. It should be mandatory for the mods to post on the thread saying why it's being permasaged before it actually is. There's a reason we have anonymous posting, right?

But, it's kind of self-centered to think you are speaking out against the BBS and being targeted or something. If you're bitching about mods continuously just for the sake of it, there's no gain that can come of that. Everyone is painfully aware we are short on mods and they don't communicate at all, and this is a problem.

We really should have some sort of system that tells you why you were banned, though. Normally, it's for spammers and the like, and it would be pretty obvious, but if anyone here is telling the truth this is not always the case. I am not sure how technically feasible that would be.

Anyway, at the very least the OP of this thread is pretty vague and general. Seems like we could get a lot more detail in there, you dig?

>>55
>>56 My bad for that, I'm writing out an explanation but it's rather late where I live and my writing is taking a hit from that. Trying to clean it up the best I can at the moment and make it as clean yet detailed as possible.

>>56 That's what I thought. I was originally going to say that the thread is just redundant to the Missions board, but honestly, I feel like I don't understand the purpose well enough either way.

I want to say that the reason should be stated whenever something is saged. I really do. But when I policed the boards more regularly, it became so unbearably frustrating because I did exactly that. It got to the point where I would keep a document with the same basic explanation and copy and paste it across the boards, just substituting in the necessary links and changed names, because the majority of the bad threads would break the exact same 5 or so rules. Even with copy and pasting, though, it was time consuming and incredibly annoying. You'd be surprised how quickly saged threads pile up across the boards.

Not to mention that it would inspire them to then make more threads whining about how "mean" you are because you calmly explained why their thread was wrong. The system also birthed more than one angry spammer. I lost patience with that whole process very quickly. It's just easier to explain only when asked or to point to the FAQ.

I'd also like to note that the site isn't fully anonymous. You can tell by their ID who they are if they've commented on the board before. I'm pretty sure that's why they leave it up to the regular members to explain the problem, but we've gotten lazy about it.

>>57 Glad to hear that you're cleaning it up. Even if it does get a proper OP, though, I'm not positive this belongs on Main; we'll just have to see.

>>58
I think the 'consequences' of explanation are far and few between. Anyone that would complain about getting corrected would be equally upset about having their thread deleted. I don't see how simply shoving the problem under the rug is okay. Even if they don't make a thread expressing their discontent, then their discontent is still unacceptable. It's completely avoidable. The mods have to think about whether or not the keep a thread, might as well write it down for the OP to see when they decide against it.

I also heavily policed the boards for months, I have the same strategies with word documents that you do. It was annoying seeing the same rules broken, but it was more annoying seeing mods permasage a topic and giving no explanation why. It's beyond me why this is even happening. It's not helpful, since they will just recreate it sometimes as we've seen in the past, or at the very least be frustrated and not learn anything.

>>59 I wouldn't say few and far between. It was more often than not. However, I otherwise agree. I'm just saying that I understand why the mods don't explain every single sage. Imo, I still think it should be explained by active members. I'm grateful enough anything gets saged. We went almost a year without any active mods earlier; it was chaos, and I'm not going to suggest demanding they do something the rest of us can easily take care of.

^

>>60 >I still think it should be explained by active members

Well, as we have just seen a bunch of times, this isn't happening and people have no idea where their threads are going. So, unless the members all start commenting on every permasaged thread explaining why it is bad, then the mods should do it. And, I don't see members doing that, because sometimes I just don't know why something is permasaged. I do my best, but sometimes it isn't enough.

Maybe we can easily take care of it, but we aren't, so that doesn't mean much.