Human beings have always striven to find things that differentiate ourselves from other species. One such trait many believe humans possess that animals don't is free will. They believe humans can choose what they do, and are not entirely governed by nature like cats or dogs are.

Many think we can choose our own destiny, that everything is not predetermined. When coming up to a fork in the road, some will choose left and some will choose right, and that is chosen of their own free will.

However, many think that based on everything that has happened in their life, a person will always choose a certain path. They may think they can go down either road, but based on their upbringing, biological make-up, and every factor that makes them who they are, the choice they make is determinable before they make it.

Do you think we are doing things of our own free will, or do you think everything we do is quantifiable and determinable? Perhaps you think free will exists, but humans don't have it? Share your opinions here.

Note:
There was already a thread about this topic here:http://dollars-bbs.org/main/res/1356043346.html. However, I felt it did not promote discussion and was generally badly made.

Um when facing a fork in the road wouldn't an animal be faced with a choice the same as a human? The amount of thought put into taking the decision is considerably different, but a choice is still somehow made.

I don't really see the question of free will being a purely human issue, just because other members of the animal kingdom don't have the ability to reason and rely mostly on instinct there are a lot of situations where an animal will choose to do something that doesn't make sense from a survival point of view.

I'm not out to debate free will among animals, but what I'm trying to say is that I don't think that animal thought patterns are so black and white and determined solely by natural instincts that their behavior should, from the get-go, be considered predetermined.

And about the actual topic of the thread, I've always thought of free will as an issue that ties in with the existence/nonexistence of a higher being supposedly controlling the universe's evolution. Without that I don't really think the fact that your actions are determined by nature, upbringing and circumstance robs you of free will. Everything that happens is a chain of causation, theoretically every action has a cause and will serve as the cause for another future action. Or something like that.

You are the result of your life experiences, but you're the one who made the choice to have those experiences, sometimes because you wanted to, sometimes against your will and preference. The course of your life isn't determined solely by intrinsic factors, just by what makes you you, but by extrinsic ones as well. Unless someone's hand is putting everything into place, even if you see life as a chain of cause and effect, you're a key player in that chain not just passively experiencing it.

I haven't really paid attention to your discussion with Solace in the RTT, but I suppose that if you were to gain knowledge of every particle and every force acting on it in the universe you might gain the ability to tell what will happen in the future. I'm really not nearly knowledgeable enough in how the universe works to be able to give a definitive answer to this.

Yes.. ughh all that other stuff was way to long for me to read, so i'm just answering the title, and it's yes we do have free will. you can do anything you want but there will always be consequences... "every action has a reaction" ~by someone (i forgot who said that quote ughh i'm sleepy)...

>>2 Think about why you do anything you do.

For instance, why did you not pay attention to my conversation in the RTT? Maybe you were tired. What caused that to happen? You didn't sleep well. What caused that to happen?

If you keep asking that question, you will find something that started that chain of events before you even existed.

Therefore, something that happened before you existed caused you to not pay attention to the conversation, which means to me, it wasn't free will. You made a choice, but it wasn't really ever a choice, more like just an action. You can apply that to everything that you have ever done. If you keep asking why, you'll eventually wind up before you existed.

Or, think of it like this: if you could even possibly measure everything in the universe and predict the future with 100% accuracy, doesn't that alone prove everything that happens is determinate?

So, someone's hand did put everything into place. You can say it's God, or the Big Bang, but at the beginning of the universe, everything was already decided. That is what I believe.

>>3 "To every action there is always an equal and opposite reaction" ~by Isaac Newton.

i think humans have the ability to act with free will, but very few of them do because it's hard to act against constraints of life and fate.

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Free will all depends on how you look at it the only people it rules out are those with disorders and impulses so you may have some free will but you may not have complete fear will

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Technically, no one in this world has a complete sense or feeling of free will. There will always be some kind of barrier awaiting us in the future. Even though we are capable of doing some pretty putrid, cruel, and just plain messed up things, there will always be some sort of consequence waiting to rid you of that freedom. There will always be rules to follow and laws that are not to be broken, and no one will probably ever rid the world of those priorities and expectations. There will always be jail and those type of punishments and restrictions getting in our way, but it's not necessarily a bad thing, because I believe that it keeps this messed up world in some type of order. I wouldn't know what to do if there was no order or routine to follow.
And all of these restrictions aren't just ruled and things like that. They can also be feeling. I mean, would you want to have the freedom to harm whom in which you love, or your friends, or even your family. These types of emotional bonds are part of which is keeping us from complete freedom, because well, in my opinion, complete freedom over everything would make this world go into chaos and tragedy. There would be a lot more people being harmed if everyone were allowed to have complete and total freedom, and nobody wants that. So, I'm glad that we don't have those types of freedoms; and I'm really glad that we have those types of restrictions. So, technically, no one really has a complete sense of free will.

this is just my thought, so please don't yell at me if you don't like some of these restrictions, because I didn't create them...I'm just saying that they keep us all in track. ^^ okie dokie

*correction in my spelling at the beginning of paragraph two* rules...not ruled...

>>8 I would tend to think more basic than that, although by all accounts you have a point.

However, arguing against this point, I do not believe free will means you have to be able to choose anything. I think free will just means you can choose between two options, even if there is a third you can't.

If you had to be able to have no restrictions and choose anything, only God could possibly have free will.

To me, if everything in the universe is measurable (not necessarily by humans), there cannot be such a thing as true free will. However, this is false; measuring anything changes it. You cannot measure the position and speed of a particle; increasing the accuracy of one measurement decreases the accuracy of the other. So, we cannot measure every particle in the universe, but does not being able to predict the future prove in itself that the future is indeterminate? I still don't think so.

Does free will really even go that deep? Or does it just mean we have gotten above our primal instincts and simply consider our instincts another reason for a decision, instead of the only reason for a decision? If the universe is determinate, can there still be free will?

Everything is random for it is not of which is. The universe wasn't created but instead made random by self discovery of itself. Their is no other for we are one.

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Bumping this over the Main board spam.

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I gave each of you a free wheel, not will!

this may be in another area of discussion, but it is how i feel on the matter, and i am in no way speakling badly of what it is you are saying.

first off im athiest, i don't believe there is a god, i feel their is no real evidence of his existence, the bible is just a book wriiten by a person, and i apoligize for those who do believe in him, but m stubborn, your words will never convince me.

also free will to me is the same as freedom, i dont think we have freedom in this world, even here in america, i hate government and laws, my spirit is one that hates being restrained by rules and restrictions, and thus i dont think goverment should exist, but that is a whole different matter.

i do believe in fate, but i also believe it can be changed, as such i have predetermined my fate because i have set up for myself and dont plan on changing it. i get the chain effect thing and i do think it can go back to before your existence and all the way back to when the big banged happen, and ven before that when there may have been simply nothing.

my point you do and you dont have free will, i have choice to choose some things but there also things that you cannot choose, because that stuff is set and/or chosen for you

sorry for the long post, but thats how i feel, sorry if i gt off topic.

I feel like we have free will. We can make our own decisions.

But we do have all our history and experiences that influence theses decisions. That's why we sometimes feel like we have no other choices. Our personal experience block any thought of another option.

This is why in my opinion we should always keep an open mind. So that we get less blocked by our own past. And become more free.

(Sorry for my English, it's not my native language)

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Good point. There is free will, but if you look it up in the dictionary it says: 1.
the power of acting without the constraint of necessity or fate; the ability to act at one's own discretion. Voluntarily, willingly, readily, freely, without reluctance, without compulsion, of one's own accord, of one's own volition, of one's own choosing.

To out it simply, it means you decide your own fate and do things with your own choices in your own way. I believe there is a God, and that your fate and destiny is already set out, but God doesn't force those choices upon you. Instead you strive and still choose your own choices. It's like God read your mind a long time ago and knew what you were going to do years, centuries, and decades, later. I do believe there is free will. God instilled that feeling of instinct within humans. It's what separates us from other creatures. I'm not saying that God is just using puppet strings on you, but he simply knows what you will know in the future. He lets humans work how they want, but he created you so that it would turn out like he knew you would or have planned. Everyone's destiny strings together into one big web. It sounds extremely confusing the way I explained it, but I've come with this conclusion years ago. Slowly adding onto it as I went. But that's what I've got.

Kudo's to those who could understand what I just wrote down. That was a big explanation, but I do believe there is such thing as free will.

~Baron

worldwide

worldwide

>>28 That is similar to what I believe, but based on what you said that means humans do not have free will.

If God or the initial conditions of the universe in general could predict in any way the results of seemingly free choices made by humans, that would mean they did not act of their own accord, but of the accord of universe at that point.

Think of it like this: the universe could have been made to be random, or made to be determinate. Neither of these allow free will. Free will is not random, as it is supposed to be the acting of one's own accord, and if randomness decides everything that happens, that can't be true. If the universe is determinate, then everything that will happen has already been set in motion and cannot be stopped. There's nothing to stop it anyway, anything trying to stop it is part of the system already and is just creating it.

The only being with free will would be God, in my opinion.

>>31
Makes sense, but from human's viewpoint it would seem like free will. God knows that you will make that choice, so in his view it would be restricted as well. As for God, he probably is the only one who has free-will.
That brought a new spin on things. Gave me a lot to speculate on. Ah finally, I can think more about stuff. Haven't been this into debate and these subjects in a long time.

Anyways, humans still view it as free-will. God does not. The universe is not it's own free thinking body. We would not be able to follow it's own course. Although, if you were to see it from our standpoint there is such a thing as free-will, but as for God, he makes his own choices. Like really. It isn't decided by anyone. So it depends on which way you see it. Thanks Inuhakka!

~Baron

wow...just woah..mind blown

A while ago I heard someone say this. Humans don't have free will but just will. Will is being able to make our own choices whereas free-will is being allowed to make a decision. The way I took what he said was pretty much no consequences for what decision you make. I'm not sure if that's actually true but if it is then it means that we don't have free will.

I think that free will probably exists but on a smaller level than we think of it. The way I see it is that it fits into a small portion or bubble of what's actually exists and is possible for everyone as a whole. What options we have and can choose to do fit into the smaller bubble of what we can actually do. This takes into account the things that always confused me about free will like the people/environment we were born into, the people we meet, our race, gender, what we look like etc. So pretty much we have free will but different options are available for different people.

>>33 Humans can't have free will if God exists. If they did, they'd be doing something God Himself wouldn't be controlling, meaning He wouldn't all-powerful or all-knowing. Think of it this way: some of the choices you make are really life-changing for other people. For instance, deciding not to have kids could change the world drastically. If that were really up to you, God's plan would be destroyed every day by choices people make.

In my eyes, if there is an all-powerful God, humans can't have free will. It doesn't make sense to me to say God has a plan for the universe, but humans can somehow transcend this plan and choose for themselves.

Every knows god is too busy playing dice with the universe and that the only will is the will of the house because the house always wins. God does exist, he's just flat out broke from losing at slots and now has to work the Vegas strip for a living.

>>36 I disagree. I believe free will exists, and that every moment we exercise the ability. I don't personally believe that God has a specific plan of the every day actions humans make, just an end goal that isn't even dependent on earth anyway. There is a difference in knowing something will happen and causing it. I also believe that free will has to exist for Christianity to be true. If God fates everything, then why would he punish you for a choice he made? On the flip side, if God doesn't exist I still think we have free will, so either way my answer is yes.

>>25 I think you are confusing, like many people I know, free will and limitations and/or consequences. If you break a law and are punished, then you have just proven that you have free will. Otherwise you never would have broken the law. While it is true somethings are unchangeable (eg. your birth), its not because there was no free will, but because someone else's will caused it. The fact that you have no control over it is simply because of the way time works. Also, if you have decided your fate, then it wasn't fate. I don't quite understand what you mean there.

>>38
So you think that God already has the ending planned out, but in between is determined on our own? If it is done that way, he'll need to curb some of our choices so we would meet ends. If not, then either we would be completely blown off course, or we wouldn't have everything on point. Done that way, it wouldn't exactly be 'destiny' or 'fate'. It would be more like an odd coincidence. I know I posted above in >>28 and >>33 with my views. God would have to influence or create us in the beginning so we would end up that way. It would seem like free will, but in actuality, it wouldn't be. Only God would be able to have free will.

As for >>36 I believe you are correct in that manner. If there is no such thing as a God, then we would have free will since God would control our interests and is all-powerful, ect if he was there.
In this world there is no free-will since I believe a God does exist. He has already influenced up and curbed your choices up to now, so since the beginning, you haven't have real free-will. It may seem that way. But it is not in God's eyes.

~Baron

>>39 What part of God's plan required humans to make choices or else he would fail? My point is that there are literally trillions of paths history can take, and he just knows which paths we will take. For instance, I don't believe he forced Mary and Joseph to be married, he knew they would be, and as such chose them. Otherwise we are just pawns. I believe "the plan" doesn't require him to curb choices, because we would have made them anyway. The way I see it, if your choices are predetermined, then there wouldn't be a heaven or hell. Why reward someone for doing something you made them do, or punish them in the same regard? I could use some scripture, but I think that would compromise this threads integrity, so I'll leave it at that.

>>40
Since he knew they would, the person would just have to make that choice correct? Their upbringing and just their gut feeling at that point would influence their choice, and therefore God would. Since he would have taken part in their creation and upbringing. Since he just knows that it will happen, won't that mean that the future has already been decided? That would mean that he does have control over that and therefore controls out free will. I thought of it that way a few posts before it was pointed out that God has influenced us as well as other things. So it wouldn't exactly be free will, since in the beginning he knew that we would make that choice. It may seem like free will to us, but God is actually controlling our choices. Even if it seems we are making it of our own accord. Since he has already 'read' our minds before the event itself happened.

So in our view it WOULD be free will, but God does influence in ways we can!5 even comprehend.

~Baron

We are free...our minds are imprisoned on illusion. If we break the chains of mind we will real free. We can do everything,starting from the smallest thing,we can start by stopping the bullysm in school, come on dude, we are the Dollars, nothing can stop us.

>>41 I see what you mean now, just a difference in what we mean by free will. I'm not completely agreeing 100%, but I know where you are coming from now.

>>43
Yeah I disagreed with this at first, but then I noticed how realistic it sounded. I liked our exchange Vontar. Hope to speak with you again soon!

Free will all depends on your opinion - no matter how free you feel, you can never be truly free. Think about it; no matter what you do you will always be constricted by society, your morals, emotions etc... So it will depends where you draw the line - are you free to live in society today, or are you only truly free when you only have to follow your emotions and morals? It's up to you.

free will exists.
But many humans are severely restrained - Especially by what we've been taught growing up - morals, what's "good" vs "wrong", how to act in society, etc. We're led along a path and unless something traumatic occurs - which allows them the chance to be more free willed - the person is likely to follow the original path because he believes he Has to - that it's the Right thing to do.

We act in accordance to those around us. Therefore the things we may, at the moment, feel is Our choice, isn't.

>>40 In this same respect, it doesn't make sense to punish people at all, given that God controls, directly or indirectly, everything that happens in the universe. Isn't a common solace for people that have lost a loved one that it is part of God's plan? The punishment itself is part of the plan. God's plan for the universe does not stop with one person's imprisonment in Hell. So, reward and punishment happen all the time, and calling them unfair is ignoring that you can't comprehend the reasoning behind God's plan in the first place. Also, God knows everything that has ever and will ever happen, so this is in essence His plan. If God exists, the universe has to be entirely predetermined. Otherwise, God would not be omnipotent.

I like to consider this issue from a physics standpoint. Consider every particle in the universe right now. Everything in the universe, including forces, energy, and matter all originate from or are caused by particles. All of those particles have a set state they are in, and each of these will interact with each other to produce stars, galaxies, and last but not least, people. All the atoms in a person's brain determine how they will act and think, and more to the point, what choices they will make. Nothing else is going to change what course the particles are currently set on. Everything will continue to do whatever it is going towards. The entire universe is predetermined, because nothing can influence the universe and not be within it.

Well, nothing except God. God is the only exception to that rule. Which means, by acting without having a choice able to be predetermined, God has free will. However, this means humans do not have free will, because the only way humans can act outside the predetermined universe is by the actions of God. When God influences humans so they can make a 'free' decision, their actions are not entirely of their own will, and therefore they do not have free will.

i believe that free will exists.
in life there are always two or more choices. the choice belongs on that person and his alone. for example, murder.. a person was about to kill you so you fought and killed the person instead.. you can say you had no choice but in fact you were a given a choice, it just so happens that the other choice not appealing nor was it favorable. there are always two or more choices, it just so happens that the other options is not really palatable; like dying, suffering and such.

there is always an option available, it's just other people's choices or your past choices and preference limits favorable choices or maybe both equally bad. however you still have your free will. like all organisms have their own free will, they make their own choices, just like dogs who go against their abusive human masters, cats who decided to stray the neighborhood, a tarsier committing suicide if you take it away from it's home, bird choosing where they would rest during migrations, plants who choose to bend towards the light(some plants actually would bend towards the shade), the rain tree, prayer plant, bush clock, lotus who make subtle simple movement like opening and closing or their flowers or leaves regardless of human intervention, mahogany tree killing other plant that grows near it by secreting toxins. they all make choices on their own free will, they just don't have the kind of consciousness that humans posses but they do have their own morals and traditions. it's human vanity that makes it seem that we are superior, like cats who often act like they are the superior beings.

for religiosity sake, Free will and the ability to Choose is the greatest gift 'god' gave other than life. after all, he also let Lucifer and the 1/3 of the angels to make their own choice which resulted to their banishment or imprisonment in their very own realm which we call hell or purgatory, whichever you believe. god's omnipotent. he know what the choice will be beforehand and its effect, but he lets us choose either way. he knew what adam and eve would do, so he warned them and let them choose.

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I believe there is no 'absolute' free will. A human's free will is not the ability to absolutely choose and determine something, rather, an ability to choose a part of something, else, God choose it. There is free will up to some degrees, but the only 'absolute' free will is God's.

>>47 Have you ever read the Omnipotence Paradox theory? Some says that God can't be omnipotent, but some says that God couldn't do or create something greater than himself, else, he could.

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>>55 I have heard of that theory before. I think that would just be a problem if God could create something he cannot do, create a being greater than himself, etc. I don't think that limits his omnipotence, only his ability to actually change something in such a way as to undermine his own power (Eg, making a boulder so heavy he cannot lift it). A being would not have to have near the power of God to manipulate a group of human beings. That is, compared to the rest of the universe, fairly easy.

No it does not. If it did why was there slaves, why do people get discriminated, why are there rulers. There is no such thing as Free Will that is something to calm a person down. When it that will happen when the world corrupts, because if there is war there is always someone standing at the top ruling.No one can escape from this horrible world. Unless you die but I think it wont make a difference because the place you go their is always someone ruling.

There is no such thing as Free Will in this world

>>55>>58 if you think about it logically, why on earth would he create something superior to him?? it doesn't make sense. why on earth would he create such liability without possible positive reapings?

yes,and no. it's true we have the power to change our thinking;we have power over our circumstance. however,we are a prodcut of our surrrundings.alway

I fine this a very fascination idea and thank you for sharing it. Biological approach in psychology does prove that many of our choices are influences but our biological backgrounds but it is not a set in stone path at all. We may be influenced by it but it is not decided. We have the power to change the path that is layed out in front of us. :)

I am sure it does. But it isn't easy to controll it.
People and culture have a big influence on our personalities.
I think usually we just follow others and that's why we feel that we have to do this or that.

I wouldnt say yes. But you can change your way of looking at a situation instead of changing the entire situation

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Yes it does. But sometimes people have a narrow perspective, and the other pathway isn't seen. There is always another choice, although maybe that one isn't the best alternative. The best road, in their POV, is the one people choose. Maybe if they continue down that particular pathway, they will look back with regret. Or pride in having made the right choice. Who knows?

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Well, you could look at it like this: you are you, and in being you are you, and you wouldn't do anything you wouldn't do, as such, you are going ALWAYS to make the choice you would make, you have free will but you would/will always make the choice that's in your character: not a pre-determined path, but a self-determined path. (sorry if I confused you even more!)

>>75 This is interesting.

Free will is doing something completely of your own accord. However, would your past choices influencing your current ones be outside your accord? Would you consider your past self to be different than your present? In this sense, very few would have free will.
Then, would your choices have to be made in total ignorance of your past choices up until that point, and essentially follow no pattern? Would a pattern mean you don't have free will?

I'll have to think about that.

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If I know someone I can predict what they will do, so yes.

no

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Humans do have free will. It's just their choice to use it and follow any path they choose in life, or to follow what they have been taught since birth. Each person will have their own opinion on the matter and they are each correct and incorrect in their own way, according to both their own logic and that of others. Some may believe in predetermined fate and others may believe in carving their own paths. To each his/her own. There is never a true correct answer. Things are always changing around us. People are always faced with decisions, both big and small. Each choice leads to a different future. For example, if I had followed my upbringing I wouldn't even be on this site and wouldn't be typing this now. But it was my choice to do all of that, so at least to me and in my own opinion, free will does indeed exist and we are all using it each and every moment of our lives.

Life is like a game, there's a set plot line but you have choices that can alter some aspects of it.

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I agree with Neko here--

Life's a game, but no one can win it. It is like a game, but when you lose you can never restart. You have various characters with various plots and places. You, as the main character, has only one objective in life and the longer you play the game, the more you discover.

~Hannah

"Everything happens for a reason" They say.

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That is a brilliant thought! I have thought about it aswell and have t say that i agree 100% but its that people want to think their choices are choices not predetermined turns, thats how people go insane

I believe it is free will but to some extent we each have our own different end results. Time will happen, things will change that is all I am certain of.

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>?<

Free will is found in all animals, from fruit flies to humans. Humans seem to get this idea that we are different from all the other animals in the sense of having more "choices". While humans may have more "choices" than other animals, it has not been studied enough to state the level of our free will versus other animals.
It's just fact.

In a way its hard to believe in free will when everything in this universe is caused by an effect. Its the whole cause and effect idea, and your "will" is simply a cause caused by an effect. Its a complicated notion combined with some probability.

free will is just an illusion...we dont really posses such thing..

'Free will' seems to come about due to us feeling that we are restrained or something. If 'free will' already existed, then there's no need for us to be wondering if 'free will' does exist.. If you kinda get what I mean ~_~

Well, I guess we do have free will to a certain extent. After all, we can be easily influenced by others/society when making our choices.

i think it excist..but...i don't know. -_-"

>>102 Maybe the cause of your effect is possible by means of free will...

If you freely choose to do anything, then you must deal with what comes after...

Free will exists within our causes.

Nya!

as a theis I believe it exists though, free to choose something but rethink again about the effect.I believe that God create us to do a good deed, but he give us a freewill to choose it, wanna do a good or bad things, like a cause-effect theory.

free will doesn't exist...everything is mapped out or planned from the very start....for example one's future is going to be rich...therefore he is bound by that future to do things that will make him rich in the past...that's why i can say that we do not posses free will..

you thought that we are robot??? we already programed??
If that soo, life is really such, and we can't do whatever we want to do. That's not life. freewill is exist. Base on my persepective

*suck..

Free will exists, though we can't really make full use of it in modern society which basically limits our actions to those seen as "acceptable"

It does exist but we live in a world where other people's feelings matter as well.
It has to be one dominant over the other.

free does exists. Humans are mindful beings, so they are able to choose what to do or not do. The only thing you have to consider
is the "cause-effect" rule that governs the world, every decision that you make (good or bad decisions) has its consequences and you have to live with that because that is what you chose. So humans are dominated by their free will.

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Nya!

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Nya!

This is a brilliant thread! I've been thinking about this for a while.

And yes, I do not believe that free will exist.

But this is another think I've been thinking about.
Why did God create this world, this universe, and everything?
They say that God have similar emotion with humans.
So, maybe He create this world because he's bored?
And if He's bored, He would like to be entertained.
And if everything is already determined, wouldn't it still be boring?
And yeah, everything is determined!
And he's expecting someone, a human, to break it and act to according to its free will, which seems impossible.
But if you think it from that view point, wouldn't that be interesting? XD

Sorry, that's really a weird thinking. And sorry to get off base.

So, the conclusion is, I think there are no free will.
Peace! (*´・ｖ・)

I believe that each one of us is a creator of our own world, that world being our life and the events around us. I feel that most things happen for a reason, and we all believe in something different. Making whatever we believe in, our reality. Our perspective. So if one person believes that his or her destiny is planned out for him or her, than it will be subconsciously. If another person believes they have free will of their life and being, and makes every choice in life themselves with no belief of it being some sort of pre-planned destiny, then so be it. Then that person can and will make choices based upon that. It all depends in my opinion, on the person. There is a different case for each one of us, because we are not all the same with the same thoughts and same experiences. That being said, I do know we are all human. And we all have common emotions. We are all very much alike, but each unique. Every one of our perceptions of life and being are right. So long as we believe it. And with that each of us live differently and create different things with different outlooks, putting our separate worlds together making one incredibly entertaining world we share.

But that, is merely my belief. ^.^"

^

It is called anarchy.

It is called anarchy.

>>124 no, stop breathing air

I personally think that people does have free will. Biological traits and others have no effect on what you are going to be in the future. For example, your father is a businessman, though he forces you to be a businessman, you have the choice to be or not to be one.

What I believe in is that why people tend to feel like they do not have or not able to use their free will till its full extent is that they have boundaries which is other people's free will. Because free will should not destroy not effect other people's free will (unless they have the consent of the said person). If they did go against other people's free will then it's not free will anymore it's called as anarchy.

P.S: I'm not a native speaker thus I'm sorry for any mistakes in spelling or grammars.

Free will is the ability to make choices on your own. With that said, there are some things you cannot control. For example, breathing. You cannot stop breathing just because you want to. Your instincts want you to survive so it'll make you breathe sooner or later...

Free will, no free will would be imo the freedom to do whatever youd like even if it disrupts the peace

My opinion would be that it does exist.
Everybody chooses the choices in their life with their own free will, and nothing else, it's always up to us what we do, and how do we decide, but on the other side, maybe we were just "made" to be like this, and there is something bigger beyond our comprehension that makes us think that we are free, well theories, there are unlimited number of them.

OPINION
Free will does exist, this is different from so called Fate
WHY ?
As common knowledge, free will is a choice, this or that, it's like "what's for dinner tonight?" FOOD FOR THOUGHT, or maybe the biggest of all *Kill or *Suicide, I don't think it's your fate to kill people or suicide over love problem and so on..
Fate is law, you can't change it however you want, live, death, accident, nature disaster this comes from God, the only being that able to change everything.
IN CONCLUSION
Human does have Free Will, but it will not change their Fate.

Free will is determined by ourselves. Yes, I can do anything (within reason) that I wish, yet I am bound by my own personal limitations. The government does attempt to contain free will for the benefit of the greater masses (i.e. murder, arson, etc.). As a human being, I can choose to ignore these rules and commit these "crimes" if I am willing to accept the consequences of theses actions. To put it simply, free will exists within reason, yet it is limited by rules society has placed upon us.

Fate if it exist doesnt matter to us because if you know your so called fate that changes your fate because you will make diffrent decision based on that information so fate doesnt really matter to us it is most often used by people unwilling to change there bad ideas saying there trapt in a bad fate that they think is of some one elses making and refuse to see it as ther own making. Pretty comon with people in our world

If you're talking about free will in general, I don't think it actually exists. There are tons of parallel worlds out there, hence, no matter what choice you make, you're still bound by something called fate.

For example, you reached the end of a road, and the road splits into two different paths, one to your left, the other to your right. Which one would you chose? Left? Right? Or do you walk back from where you came from? Or do you walk off the path into the unknown?

Yet, no matter what you have chosen, they're surely one of different world where it had expected you to chose what you have chosen. Thinking about this this way, there's really no free will is there?

It does not exist. In our world everything you do is basically monitored. Until children move out of the house their parents own what the children have. For adults if you do the process of buying a car you are just giving it to the government and they are just letting you drive it. So in this world the government are the adults, the adults are kids, and the kids are just unborn children. Therefore, we have no free will.

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@ Termicreeper
totally agreeing with you. Nowadays, the world acts like a merry go round that never stops. There are times that something out of the ordinary happens, but who's to say it didn't happen to other people as well?

I think that some people can have free will but choose not to because, it is too much responsibility.

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Bumping over the Main board spam. ; w;;

There's no one who can live their whole life being completely uncorrupted.

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asdf

Even if this thread is dead, im still writing.

The way I see it is that "Free will" is just a concept created by people to merely give it a name, for it to be easier to explain. Thinking that there is right or wrong, good and evil is absurd. Good and evil are just names for actions that we people like or dont like, its actually quite egoistic. There are ONLY choices that we make and what we make of it, thats up to the individual to work out. What im getting is that our brains work like a security system, creating various explanations and illusions so as not to harm our sanity. Basic rule of survival to be fair. Its reflex and instinct, we are animals in the end, just smarter. The brain will do anything to keep us in check, because our tasks as living organisms are:
Not die and reproduce.
So what separates us from animals is that we can go beyond those instincts and do whatever we want. We can make the choice and are aware of it.

In my opinion that is what we call "Free will". Being aware of the choices we can make.

I personally think that we have free will to a certain point. If you dont believe in God then dont read this post. I think God writes all of our stories, and sometimes he oeaves blanks and a couple of options for us to fill in. In other words we do but only in certain places.

The will exists,but it's not absolutely free. It depends also on external conditions and other choices we made and other people make. It's not that simple.

I want to say that free will exists, however i also believe that everything we as humans do is predestined. The choices we make, the things we do, the people we hang around are all set by an event that has happened that could or could not have happened with our knowing. Free will is what lets us think how we like but ultimately most of our decisions and subconscious.

I believe that free will doesn't exist. It's just like believing your parents raised you. They didn't really, circumstance raises a person and circumstance takes their free will too.

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I believe that there is no free will-not in a way that fate controlls us- but more as in..erm....we just can't be free because we don't heve the means to be.

In a sense, yes, I would say that we have free will. But not a lot of it. We get to chose which shoes we like to wear, what are favourite colour is, how we style our hair. However, choosing our own paths is not one of them. We have to go to school, get a job, get married, have kids, pay the taxes, pay the bills, watch tv, watch the news, obey the law. This is expected of us. Yes, not everyone does this or follows it. But those who don't have someone pulling their strings. So then again, that isn't their free will. I would say that the likely hood is, free will doesn't exist as much as we would like to think. But maybe that isn't all that bad. If we did have free will, I doubt society would be the same today. Lots of people would be dead, the planet would be a mess. So in this case, I don't think it wasn't a bad idea that we don't have as much free will. It would just be better if they lightened up a bit and gave us some more.

The winner of a game is decided from the beginning. Not during the game.
Think of {life} as a game.

Like admin said, there is free will, but not much.
Say someone suffers from an abusive past, but break away from it. The rest of that persons life is spilt into 2-5 paths. Path one: grow up to be just like the person who hurt them. Path 2: do something they see as a wonderful way to help those that went through or are going through something similar. Path 3: Live in fear of it happening again. Path 4: end it short in life so no choice needs to be made. Path 5: become what most of those around expect you to become (giving into peer pressure).

Free will? Nah, its all just brain chemicals and electrical stimuli. In my opinion your consciousness, or a creatures level of awareness, is a tool that mobile animals use to survive.

Our brains are really good at doing tasks that we aren't aware of. Why aren't we aware of them though? Don't you think it would be ideal to control the beats per minute of your heart manually, or expand your blood vessels to allow more oxygen rich blood in faster in a time of immediate action or reaction?

Lets go smaller, right down to every cell that makes up out body. Why can't our conscious minds control the amount of vitamins, minerals, water, or oxygen each cell needs? Do you even know the exact amount a human cell needs let alone what each type of cell needs?
Kind of makes you feel better about not having to manage were all those proteins and vitamins go during digestion.

Going back to consciousness and free will being a tool, its for decisions. "You" the "person" reading this right now is a tool, used by your brain to lead it to the things your cells need to survive. Who knows maybe there are multiple versions of "you" in your brain, all unaware of each-other, the brain only has to pick the most viable one to follow. What if your unconsciousness is an alternate version of "you", one obsessed with sex, food, water, and any other necessity.

"But what about emotions and love? Those are real right?"
We use these as excuses to relate or connect to the outside world. Think about it in a world were all the human brains want sex, food, and water, nothing would get done. Thankfully we have the cushion of consciousness between each-other to lessen the blow. We can communicate, pass or retrieve resources to each-other.

The really cool/unfortunate thing I find about human consciousness is time. We came up with it to keep track of the things we've done or will/want to do. It also allows the human consciousness to fear things as simple as the end of its existence.

If you made it down here thanks! ♫♪*
Sometimes I get a little crazy with this deep stuff. I'd like to point out now, I have no education or evidence to back up my claims.
*~Its my opinion and everyone is entitled to one~*

Right or Left
???
YES! In my opinion were all quantifiable and determinable.
Were a learning program its how we work.

My entire evolutionary ancestry and experience has lead up to this derision...

Left.

I'm going to be brief; this is all subjective.
In nature, everything is subjective, therefore there is no real way of knowing whether or not this statement is true or not. But in the ultimatum, it doesn't matter if it is or not. Live, play, experience life as much as you can, for living will be your only truth.

>>157 Very true. It is impossible for humans to know if there is free will, and everything we do is unaffected by that fact. It is interesting to debate about, and brings up some interesting ideas that apply elsewhere.

>>156 Excellent point. It could be that our consciousness is just another tool for survival. In fact, I don't find this particularly unlikely.

Thing is, these tools have clearly changed over time. Not everything the consciousness does is for survival anymore. That is what could possibly be considered free will, when we disregard our own survival instincts and start to do other things for other reasons we ourselves decide.

However, it is very possible that in a more advanced way than anyone can imagine, it is still for survival. It could be that the evolution of our thought process and consciousness over the centuries is a controlled way to advance our species, by our own species. I'm not sure what or who would have planned that out, though. Mostly just speculation.

bump

Free will is most likely not a tangible thing for humans, for we will always be governed by our own conscious, which evolves over time and experience. Though humans could do as they please, their conscious dictates what their actions are. Remember, I am not an expert, this is just my own view on the matter.

^

I feel that in certain circumstances we have free will. If we let it, instinct would take over and we would simply survive without any conscious thought. In some situations we really don't have any free will, for example. A wolf attacks someone, and even if they were going to attempt suicide later that day, they will fight back. Although, when we are not in any immediate danger we can put instinctual thought aside and exercise our free will, like continuing playing a game instead of getting something to eat even though that person might be hungry. Now I could be very wrong, but this is my stance, and it's the best I can offer. For all we truly know fate and destiny may be a real thing dictated by a divine being, and all our decisions may be already laid out for us in some grand scheme. I do not believe that myself, but it could be true.

^^

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lump

Bumping over the Main board spam.

Free ? There is no meaning to life if you know that then you can be free
Do whatever you wan't to do is freedom that's all

I believe in what i call "free fate". It's up to YOU what actions to take in life, but life already has a map set up, so YOU chose your actions, and life in return brings about the consequence to what is done. When you do something good, life might give you something good, but there is always the possibility that (since life's a bi*ch) life will give you something bad.

Remember this username Dollar members.... All life is calculated in every essence. Our lives have been lived thousand times over. But... I can say, without a doubt, there are an infinitesimal amount of possible outcomes, an infinitesimal different realities, so to speak. Every normal human has the ability to perceive every possible outcome, because our "imagination" is so great. Even though in actuality, it's not our "imagination" at all, it's our ability as humans to calculate probability.

In short, we all have will to change the "fate" in one of our lives at a time, but there are only a certain number of possible realities before we've lived every possible outcome. Think of it as an iPhone Simple Passcode numbers 0-9 with 4 slots. 10 numbers x 4 slots x ?Number (if you wanna know why this ? Number was added in, google combination probability for more detail) = ?40 different possible combinations, we can choose which combination we use first, but ultimately, we will have used up every combination at the end.

I know this is a very....vague... Way to answer your poll/question.... But you should understand what it means

Sorry for the rather long thread

-Dawn

Well, as some already answered I would just add that free will exists. As each of us is a unique individual who has their own background story and personality traits, we have infinite number of choices, though the end result of that each choice might be predetermined. Moreover, there are situations when a human being acts contrary to his beliefs and conscience.

I believe that everyone has free will. Sure, our upbringing might be the reason we do something, and affect our morals. But even though it affects our morals, doesn't mean that we always follow what our upbringing and genetic structure "predicts" that we will do. I don't believe that it is calculated or anything. You can calculate the possibility that a certain person will do something because of their upbringing,genetics, personality, but there will always be the odd moment when they choose something that you completely didn't expect them to choose.

"I hate the word “fate.” Birth, encounters, partings, success and failures, fortune and misfortunes in life. If our lives are already set in stone by fate, then why are we even born? There are those born to wealthy families, those born to beautiful mothers, and those born into the middle of war or poverty. If that’s all caused by fate, then God is incredibly unfair and cruel. Because, ever since that day, none of us had a future and the only certain thing was that we wouldn’t amount to anything."
Shouma Takakura (Mawaru Penguindrum)

I believe that we all have some form of free will, yet as time goes on we are all manipulated so that our choices are determined then by ("our" beliefs pressure from external and internal forces, along with the mindset).

We all are able to freely choose from one thing to another, yet we cannot truly be free and we are all people of what thoughts were set in us , along with how we interpreted. Many people see things different from other. So in turn we do have free will. yet the choices of one can be narrowed down by many factors. It is our choice and amount of will we have can change the factors and end results.

thats one deep thought you got there
in my Opinion free will does exist but only with such limitations like flying and other stuff, yes you can choose your fate but at first if you are not currently sure what fate your going to choose then theres something i call BETA Fate where thats where you go with the Flow thats how God made the world for us to choose when we made up our mind :D

It is hard to determine if free will exists given the multiple influences in our lives and the experiences we've had. I much rather believe free will exists, but I have thought about the duality free will brings to the concept of time. I'll provide an example. Why did the leaf fold while landing? Why didn't it go father then the ben? Why didn't it hit the tree? The leaf had 10,000 spots it could have landed, but yet it landed in "that" spot. It folded due to the wind and landing, while others did not. The simple leaf had no free will, but yet it folded like only a few others, though their path to the folding was different in every aspect but also the same. Every leaf represents a decision that could have been made, but separated from the one that was chosen. Chosen to lead a separate time from all the others that is just like it. I will do my best to explain this example.

Think of all the possibilities feet present when walking, all the paths that could be taken, the twists and turns they can do, but you choose only one action. The dozens of possibilities to the said action cease and only continue in their own dimension. But the chosen path only opens up more possibilities and after another chosen action, it is repeated. It can be applied to the clothes you wear, the angling of your wrist, etc. Everything has a set timeline, and a course it follows, though I still believe each timeline can be chosen. What remains in the past becomes just that. I know I might have strayed from the topic of free will, but I do believe free will has more than one link, and I certainly think the concept of time plays heavily it.

>>173 Oiprocs
I have to agree. We eventually do have limits to are freedom because of the choices and changes we make and restrictions in our lives. For the better or worst we are as free as we make it. For example, I love to drink but for what happened to my lover back then I don't do it anymore. My lover rather me smoke but I quit so even if I wanted to use something to calm my nerves I don't because I limit myself for my lovers sake and my own. I smoke very little if anything now but I don't want it unless I'm really having a hard stressing moment which so far I've been ok with without it.

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Does fate exist? Does free will exist? Discuss it here.

For me it does.

It does, I suggest everybody to watch the film Mr. Nobody and you will see my entire point.

It does, but not completely, and I think we all can agree that it's a good thing.
Still, I don't think that things are decided by 'fate'
For example, if one would read a book with all of his/her future written out, she/he would have the power to change it.

free will exists.

just because there are laws and rules doesn't mean we can't actually do it. because we most definitely can.

consequences? yes.
but when it comes right down to it, you can do whatever the fuck you want.

>>184 Yeah, but you can't really. Here's an example:

You can punch a person in the face. You are free to do that. However, you cannot punch everyone in a given city, for instance, in the face. You will get caught and taken away before you are able to. You will be physically stopped. Right now, you can do a lot essentially because your fear is trusted enough to keep you in place. However, once it is clear that isn't the case, you will see just how little free will you are being given.

Those consequences you brought up can actually stop you at a point, and hinder your free will.

"Do you think we are doing things of our own free will, or do you think everything we do is quantifiable and determinable?" I'd say the latter. It's just not proven or solved yet, since the topic would require more in depth scientific study. But think about it, when you make a decision, what's the underlying mechanism? You choose the best option in terms of serving your own interest every time, you get to a fork. So based on your upbringing, environment and valuesystem it's deterministic. You never make a decision for the sole purpose of making it. That would be free will and it's nonsense. You always make decisions based on your background. Even if you are told to say a random number between 1 and 100, which should totally result in decision which has no stake for you, your current environment, the time, what you see in the moment influence which number will be first triggered through synapse in your memory, basically the most cost-efficient way to think of a random number.

Anyways enough of my blabbering, long story in short, I've never heard a definition of free will which couldn't be disporved in reality. Free will is something man made up, to explain a simple phenomena, just did a poor job.

I don't think free will is really. I think everyone's destiny is set in stone, whether or not it changes along the road is entirely different. There are theories of parallel worlds, where you made the other choice. So regardless, you probably made the other choice in a different world, but in this world, too me, you don't make your own choices. It's destiny.

>>186 Well, unfortunately humans have the ability to recognize they are making a decision, so they can actually do that for the sake of it. However, that behavior of self-observation can also be quantified in the same way basic decisions can. It just gets a little more complicated.

>>187 That's a good point, however if there are infinite parallel universes, you would actually be able to make choices. If in every universe someone made a random choice, or a choice based on free will, with infinite of them there will still be every outcome fulfilled.

>>185 which is where you are wrong. like i said - just because people can stop you doesn't mean you still can't. it's like jumping off a cliff. dying or serious injury will stop you. but you still can do it right?

i think you're seeing it as more of 'people don't want you to do this so you cant haha you dont have free will'.

but literally speaking, you do.

someone can restrain me from punching a guy in the face, sure, and that someone had the free will to do it. and i can have the free will to punch that someone in the face so that i can go back to punching the guy i originally wanted to punch.

free will exists.
people are simply conscious of the consequences, there for, they do not act upon it.

No, that is not how I am seeing it.

>i can have the free will to punch that someone in the face
No, that is not necessarily true. You overestimate your power compared to the power of others around you. Consider this person handcuffs you. Consider this person is simply stronger than you. Consider that person doses you with chloroform. You do not, in this case, have free will to do anything at all. Your body will shut down and you won't be able to do anything. No matter what you 'will' yourself to do, you won't be able to do it.

Basically, you don't always have the ability to do anything. There are limitations you cannot possibly get around. You don't have free will to choke yourself with your own hands. You don't have free will to walk across the ocean. You don't have free will to look at this text and not translate the words into meaning. A lot of these limitations come from lack of total control over your own body, and most come from lack of total control over your surrounding environment.

You could argue that you always have the ability to choose at least two things to do at any given time. Like, as you are falling asleep from the chloroform, you have the choice of what you are thinking, or to an extent what direction you fall down. However, you clearly don't have the ability to do anything you want.

Sapere Aude!

We at the same time, have both free will and limitations. Our free will extends to the point that limitations take over. Like >>190 said, we have choices-and the ability to choose between them- but we can't make these choices. Our limitations make these choices- and its for us to choose. In that case, our free will is in the boundries of our limitations. (Of course XP)

>>188 Well, unfortunately humans have the ability to recognize they are making a decision, so they can actually do that for the sake of it.

That might be true if there is a case where you can create a decision to decide for the sake of the decision. That sounds like a paradox. But anyways, I didn't mean it that way. I meant that even if you are aware that you are making a decision, making it based on that knowledge and purposely making it for the sake of the decision is also happening since it serves your interests at that given moment. Long story short, yes I agree, it can be quantified the very same way.

I also think that it's very amusing that people believe that their illusion of free will exists. I mean, you make only one choice, you're bound to make a choice, where's the free part in that? You have to determine what to choose, based on experience, so there's no freedom to that. That's why it's a choice. Let's say you're in a room with two exits. One leads to certain death, let's say immediate cremation, and the other leads to life or your escape. I say free will would be to parallelly take both choices, and live both consequences. Having to make the decision makes you measure the consequences and take the one serving your interest the most.

God gave us all a free will

asdf

>>194 not everyone believes in God.

here is a idea i have been thinking alot lately we have two wills will of god to which we have to submit and the will of devil now we have completely free will to choose between them .

free will isnt exist... because there'r rules that make the freedom dissapear

Everyone has a different concept of "freedom".

You can do anything and take anything. But there's a price to pay for everything. Whatever your interpretation on "free will" honestly.

I believe that we do have free will but our choices that are limited.

Everything can be done, now what happens can be called the result of your free will. Sink a yacht and what happens after is that many people hunt you down due to their will to follow a rule set forth some time ago. Free Will shall exist forever but many of those actions are frowned upon due to the way society has developed and changed. Cannibalism used to be a way to survive but now is frowned upon since "food" is readily available for a price.

>>198 no one is actually making you follow those rules however.

there's a law that says "don't kill anyone" and yet murder happens every day.

i think i have a better way to explain free will now that i've been properly reading every body's arguments and points.

let's get down to the already obvious:

• you can be stopped from doing something


• consequences will be made on certain decisions


• people can still force you to do something

my stance on it is still the same.

we have free will.

just because you can be stopped from doing something, the person who stopped you had the will to do it. they fight against each other in confusing ways and really it just depends on a person's point of view.

moral views and federal laws are a barrier, but i mean, you can still do it.

if it is in your ability to do it, and if you decide to do it, then it's free will.

but that term is too broad because, like Inu has stated, people can still stop you by force.

i feel like sometimes we think too much into things, and that's not necessarily a bad thing. but some answers aren't meant to be found. the question of freedom has always been an ongoing thing, and no one will ever really be free. it's a battle between having all your rights, and then keeping the peace.

confusing and kind of sad; yes. right; that's not really up to me.

but looking at the bright side of things - we are lucky enough to express our opinions and think what we want. people may not like it. but in the end - that's free will enough, right?

I don't believe in free will. Everyone's just a combination of their neurons, genetics, and what they learned.

For humans to think themselves as or having something "special" I find to be very narcissistic.

I think free will exists, why?

We are who we are and make the decisions that we do because of A) our GENETICS B) our ENVIRONMENT and C) our SPIRITUAL side or our personality. One might say that our personality is purely shaped by our genetics and environment, but it could also be that our genetics contains the physical manifestation of our spiritual self. Or, our spirit could act independently of the physical world, though I doubt it.

I'd also like to note the quantum nature of the universe to show that nothing is predetermined. This too could be a source of our free will that may never be able to be proved.

it does. I go against this accursed system every chance I get, but for those who believe in fate might say it controls our "will", so I try not to think about it. it hurts my head. -_-"

imo, it does exist. It's what makes us "us". its Fate/Destiny that i dont believe since it is only the result of our choices/decision in the present. who would want to live a life like a train that just follow a pre-determined route anyway.?

As a Thai, I confirmed that it doesn't exist in my country at all. This country ain't the Land of Smiles or Land of Free, it's always the land of lies and propaganda that brainwash kids to worship the absolute monarchy system (which they lied it's constitutional monarch....what kind of constitutional monarch involved and choosed sides in politics as well as jailing citizens for little critics)...with that, the caste system climbs its way back up again.
Brainwashed people are also really dangerous, they are all under cult of
personality spell, would ignore all negative facts about the king and the royal family even if they supported dictators. They are like a bunch of North Koreans, but more violent that they can kill you for not loving their monarchy or agreeing about the monarchy in the same way as them, regardless whether you're Thai or foreigner. The lese majeste here can also be reported by any random guy which means that if any idiot kid thinks you insult his king, he can report you to police and the police can take the case which may resulted in you being in jail for at least 3 years if the court (ridiculous Thai court) think so.

Logically there's no such thing as free will. Wherever you go, whenever you go...there must be certain rules you have to obey, no matter how corrupted the rule is...if you don't follow the rules you will be an outcast. As an example, a friend that likes talking about a certain topic could be anything, if one of them didn't follow that topic, that person will be an outcast. A criminal, caught by a police...people will judge that criminal and mocked...even when the criminal already changed into a good person, people are quick to judge...

If there is such thing as freedom, our country would be a mess without rules to follow. In other words, in freedom...there's a price that you have to pay.

Ithink both fate and free wil exist. You can make your own choices and all, but you can't choose who your parents were, for example. Some hings you just can't control. there are plenty of examples of that in Durarara

After some thought on this topic, I feel sure that there is no such thing as free will. People are influenced not only by others around them, but also by themselves.

>>211
But that has nothing to do with free will. You can choose what you do. Whether or not you follow the norms is up to you.
Free will and a lack of rules are not the same thing.
>>212
>>213
But that's not fate. That's someone else's free will. It may not be yours, but it's still someone's. The debate isn't whether you can control everything, it's whether you can make choices or whether all your decisions are predestined.

Asking whether free will exists is questioning the human thought process in itself. We do not know what it is that determines our actions and emotions, of course, the brain is always a valid answer, however I do like to think that a more romantic entity such as the soul makes you the person you are.
Personally, I do not want to know how counciousness works, since a satisfying answer is impossible to find for me. So judging from the things I am more or less sure of, I would say free will does exist, assuming "free" is defined as something the individual decides without any boundaries.
For example, a person decides his job by his needs: money, peers, satisfaction and time are all values we judge differently, and based on them, we make our decision. One my justify that this is free will.
Nonetheless there are an awful lot of limitations, not even mentioning laws, social norms already deprive us of our freedom. The human is a social being, they will probably prefer fitting into the group instead of self-realization. Cases in which the individual is not excluded when breaking out of the usual ethics and behavior are rare.
To sum up, I think free will exists in some cases, but is highly limited by society and its system, the government for example.

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In regards to FREE-WILL:

The Will to be Free exists
But actual Freedom is more of a phantom
Being told you have someone doesn't guarantee your possession

True 'free will' can never exist, merely by existing, a human imposes on another human's freedom, giving them expectations, morals and emotions to follow. Free will, as we call it in society, is limited, and is only 'free' to the extent that the people controlling society want it to be 'free'. To have true free will a human would have to exist without contact from another creature, however this causes humans to act like animals, so it could be said that true free will is merely relying on our animalistic desires...

Free will can't exist or if it does someone will break the "law" and etc and etc

Kats got this. If free will was an emotion and everyone had it we would all have anarchic fits. Stealing, killing, rape, torture. Heh, You tell me if we as human beings have the ability to do these things. Then ask yourself if free will exists.

No no it does not my wounderful human for we r all Slaves to death muhahahahahaha

Heh. This is intruiging. Free will can only exist or have no exiatance what so ever. We arnt slaves to anything but death. But death is the one destiny we all share. So the fact is that we can do what we want. Though the "law" goes agianst this. Isnt tyere an old saying called " fuck the police." ?...

Yep hehe fuck the police and do wat u feel like yolo my humans yolo hehe

Hehe. Nice one! Lol

Ikr I'm just pertending to be izaya so I'm having fun lol

Little to much narsisism. Lol

I think izaya is all narsisism

Lol

Ya got a point lol.

Ikr it's fun I momerised his personality so it's fun to pretend to be him lol

I did that with shizo once. And a few other anime characters.

But izaya is more complicated he has so many different experetions but but always with that narrisistic tone lol

Free will would (in my opinion 😋) only excist if exacly the same people in exacly the same situation could do different things.

YOLO~^^ but don't yolo too much lol. YOHO (Yolo only happens once) LoL... ^bump^ but you have a point though :)

I am a Christian because I know that there actually is evidence for a supernatural existence as well as evidence to prove the Bible to be 100% inspired by God and faultless. Many Christians have been arguing for many years if humans truly have free will, or if God controls everything we do. I personally lean toward the side that we have free will to sin and turn away from God, but ultimately God is the only one who can change our hearts and minds.

Humans believe that they have free will but I personally think that they're just being delusional. It kind of depends on what kind of freedom you're talking about. For example, we aren't really free to live forever, we'll all die eventually. Humans are weak and delusional in that sense. As Izaya said, Humans really are interesting. (Sorry if that didn't make sense, I kind of just rambled on with a bunch of information that doesn't really make sense.)

Yes it is a such confusing matter, no doubt. And yes these sort of questions can be for many other things, like religion, conspiracies, etc. And truthfully ( or at least in my opinion ), for all these things, WE HAVE NO CLUE ( duh ), and sure we are curious, sure some may WANT to find answer, but for things that a truth can be inevitable, knowing we will never know, why worry in the first place? If we truly were told that we are controlled/there's a god/a secret organization runs it all, life would be different in a huge manner. Don't stress, for even if there was a magical unicorn flying in the sky, that chooses which side of a forked road to choose, for you (i truly don't know) are in a fine position. ( i hope ).

I think we do have free will. The reason why you could quantify someone's 'fate'if you will, is because most humans aren't stupid.
Usually they'll pick the better option.
I could punch a cop in the face out of my own free will, but will I? No because that's stupid. This is what I mean, MOST people wont go doing something like that.
Anyways if we had limited will that would mean something is limiting our will, and if that something is limiting our will why in the world would this thing(by definition God) allow us to think of the argument of free will. Sorta seems counter intuitive from the guy who made reality.. course that's IF limited existed, I'm obviously on the free side.

yes we do have free will and i think that humans do have what we define as "free will" like we can make choices by ourselves. some humans don't but most do. If we didn't have free will then we would probably still be living in caves. You see, humans are not like other animals, we are not bound to one fate like fish that follow a continuous cycle of living, bound to their one and only nature. Animals have a purpose for living, reproducing, staying alive. However while we as humans, make a purpose for ourselves, no one can take away this natural right that we call "free will"

This always a tricky question, because people say that there that thing called destiny, I believe we have free will but it is only on the time being, because we are all destined to die it's like a maze with many paths, all paths are right but have different outcomes it's up to us to choose wich path in the maze to take, but one is certain we are headed to death. So the life we live is our choice, we are free to lead the life we live. (≧▽≦)/~┴┴

Striven is not a word, I don't like the argument you made, you need to take philoshophy class. Promptly fuck off.

>>241 Uhhhh..
if you would just look down real quick to the "Respecting Fellow Members" thread..

>>241 Merriam-Webster disagrees.

I don't like the argument I made either, but that may be for a different reason than why you don't. Mind sharing?

>>241 you didn't need to cuss you know! Hmf! Very disapointing...

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I think we humans have free will. Animals may have some free will too, but I don't think its as much more instinct than will. humans have free will because think about it (as your thinking isn't your free will to think or not to think) something has to cause us to act right lets say you have two different people walking down the street and there`s a homeless guy there. he asks for money from both. one person simply walks off without caring while the other gives him $10. there were two different actions taken by two different people. for examples sake put animals (dogs) under the same circumstances because there based on instinct they both would most likely have similar reactions. They may not have the exact same reaction but they probably would be similar. yes humans have free will

*correction in 247* I think it more instinct than will

No never will

i like to think so i do whatever i want everyday we make choices everyday is making a choice for yourself not free will idk im stupid lol

as long as there are laws, no.

I think people have free will. You said that based on a persons upbringing, biological make-up, ect that what they do can be predetermined, but I don't think that's entirely true. For example, have you ever been surprised by something your best friend did? You thought you knew what your friend would do in that situation because you know them, yet they did something completely different. No matter how well you know someone or how long you've known them, they could still completely shock you, this is because they have free will. There isn't something that doesn't allow you to do something. Nothing telling you and stopping you from doing something. flame said if there are laws then there is no free will, but that's not true. If it were we wouldn't have criminals. You see, the government, our parents, teachers, they can all tell us what we SHOULD do, but they can't MAKE u s do it. It's up to us if we disobey and still choose to do something; that is our free will.

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I believe all Humans have free will, choices are proof of our free will. Like Nagi522 said, we may believe someone will do something but because of free will there is always the chance that something else will happen and we will be utterly suprised by the outcome. There is no written or determined path, there are multiple paths and we choose where that path leads through our free will. If we didn't have free will our lives would be on a constant cycle, no one would die until they got to old to move, no one would be different or have their own personality. When it comes to being unique, most people do not realize how much about them is different from others.

>>254
>have you ever been surprised by something your best friend did?

Yes, but I don't really know them. I guess that's part of my point. We don't really know anyone or anything, not even ourselves. We only know based on our limited interactions with them. We don't see them when they are alone, or hear their thoughts. On the other hand, if I knew the location and state of every particle in their body, including neurons and electricity in their brain, I could easily predict what they would do. At least, that's the theory.

But, it becomes more complicated when you scale it. Can you possibly tally every particle in the universe? Can you even tally a person without changing them significantly in the progress? We'd have to know these to know the answer, and frankly I don't see that happening any time soon. So, I'll have to come up with a better counterargument.

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not if you post a thread about chatrooms XD then your free will is stripped away and replaed by a number of complaints

lol true

we all have the power to live our lives the way we want to and sure the laws retrict us of certain actions but laws are placed in order to keep everything in order. the world isn't completely in order currently, but its better than if we had no laws. it would be complete chaos.

BUMP

No, your subconscious makes decisions before your conscious mind is aware. For anyone who believes free will is an endowment from God, he is meant to be omniscient, meaning knows everything. If this is the case then he knows everything you have done and ultimately will do. You cannot act differently or else he would know, that's is not free will. However, I personally don't believe in God, or free will for that matter.

the question is a little contradictory because of the very laws of language which was used to start the question. It might be free will to reply to the question, as I myself am currently doing, but also might be reactionary as I acted upon the question itself, thus determined by it. This little idea can spiral into a constant (almost) endless abyss of things determining other things. I mean, I could just stop typing right now and say I did that because of free will.. (but im not), but I could also say I'm employing my free will to keep typing. This point is quite a simple one; it gets a little fuzzier when thinking of other acts such as suicide. That one is a little harder to do. So maybe suicide is the final way to answer the question. Think about it for a bit and see where it takes you. Or otherwise, think outside the language of the question and consider ur acts for what they are. Everything is everything yo~~

No unless you can change the past it does not. Everything is cause and effect. You're actions now are caused by the past, so if you cant change the past you have no true control over your now.

-L

past is a concept made up by the acts of free will; present is freely acting upon a past of free will, maybe

Sorry hin0ki but the world works on cause and effect. the future is an effect of the causes of the past. everything today wouldn't be the same if 9/11 or world war II never happened. the future isn't a constant line. it moves in waves based off the rocks you throw in its water.

-L

Two roads diverged in a yellow wood,
And sorry I could not travel both
And be one traveler, long I stood
And looked down one as far as I could
To where it bent in the undergrowth;

Then took the other, as just as fair,
And having perhaps the better claim,
Because it was grassy and wanted wear;
Though as for that the passing there
Had worn them really about the same,

And both that morning equally lay
In leaves no step had trodden black.
Oh, I kept the first for another day!
Yet knowing how way leads on to way,
I doubted if I should ever come back.

I shall be telling this with a sigh
Somewhere ages and ages hence:
Two roads diverged in a wood, and I—
I took the one less traveled by,
And that has made all the difference.

this poem talks about how no matter what road you take you end up in the same spot. but going the long way all you really did.

-L

Oh man, L, man, I'm not sure what you're getting at here. I didn't even mention the future: that's a whole other ball game. I'm not sure what point ur trying to make with the little pond metaphor. If it's in regard to the idea of determination, then you're saying everything is determined by some single point in the far past that now effects what the 'future' is? It's a cute thought, but totally means that we have no control over anything bc some all-controlling-past tells us what to do? I'm not into being dominated like that yo, not sure about you.
Also, not sure why you posted that poem. It's hella surface level and really cringe tbh; at least give me a fun limerick or something. If I was the cool 'one traveller' in the poem, I'd defo retrace my steps back to the diverging branch and check out both routes. It'd totally be an expression of free will to do that (although probs really boring)

Facts do not care for your feelings.
and that poem is a world renowned poem. also the past does dictact the future, of your first relative died before he had kods, you wouldn't be here. so you're future was made because of the past, your personality is made by how you were raised. you have the illusion of free will, but your brain makes them based off of past experiences. if you get mugged in a dark ally way, your brain will go out of its way to avoid dark ally ways.

-L

Mass bump of appropriate discussions