At this time, some countries are thinking about the independence, and in particular in mine, this topic is in the air.

There's a lot of people of my region who want the Independence, because the actual government is not thinking about the townsfolk, and they only look for them; people are really getting tired of them, but the politicians, won't give us the independence, not even a referendum, to ask us what we think.


What do you think about independence? And how would you try to get it, when the government is against it, when a lot of people want it?

Independence from who? Where? What injustices prompted this situation? Do you live in a republic?

It'd be much easier to formulate an opinion on your situation if we had a few details...

This country is Catalonia, we are part of Spain. The actual government is 'PP(partido popular)'.
And we are against the way they rule the country, because they are looking just for them, and keeping the money that should be ours; this way our region is becoming more poor, and also they are always criticizing and scorning us.

They don't even want to give us a referendum. we are not comfortable with their mesures, they also rise the taxes only in our region...


We would like to be listened. people is really getting tired and angry.

I don't know much about politic, but I think it's normal to care about your country and the happiness of the people who lives in it. You could talk it with your friends etc, and I'm sure it would help, to know what other people close to you think. I'm pretty sure you would come up with something interesting ^^

it would be interesting to hear also, what other people from other countries think...

I would imagine that at some point, the masses would want their freedom so badly that they organize themselves into a resistance movement. From there, a revolution escalates. People get hurt and die, lots of people start spewing political nonsense in an effort to save their own asses, and eventually one side emerges victorious.

If a government is taking freedom, and offering absolutely no opportunity for change, then the country is going to quickly find itself head-first in a civil war.

The question is they must think about it? Why, when it came to independs it not a easy way to get it many country get their independs form war, and the cost of war is the death of innocent people. The other choose is but taking the system form bottom to upper part of the government it can take years but the cost of innocent people isnt that high like in war. But whatever is the choose they must have a good organization and leaders.

Wow, But maybe a war is excessive, Don't you think it would have to exist another way to get their independence, doing other things, without hurting nobody?

A war is something dangerous and the cost is so high...

So what do you think I could do?
(Without using our hands or weapons)

Si vis pacem, para bellum

>>8 No mater what the government says the majority of the people's opinion will always be right. You don't work for the government the government works soulfully for you. You and everyone else have to just show the government that the majority of you want this this way; and whether the government agrees with it or not they have no choice but to do it for you. That's how democracy works; the government is your bitch.

politics is bullshit, they always want to do what they want D:<

bump

Bump

>>10 I agree with you, but the problem is that the government doesn't listen to us, and they even said that if we try to organize a referendum, the will put the president of our region in jail.

Spain right now, sucks

And we really don't know what to do... Any idea?

Bump

bump

There is no such thing as independence, in order to survive organisms must rely on one another to survive and flourish.

Without this cycle there is no future.

Yes, but they have to listen the people. If they don't the cycle will also eventually break.

>>17 It's called context. You are using the wrong one. You're mostly correct, but not here.

Actually my context is correct. Do you not rely on a government or an independent power to guide and allocate needs. Even if this influence is a little mis-guided its still there and even if they do not care for someones opinion is doesn't even matter.
There goal is to control.
And everything in this world has control over something right down to a bacteria molecule.

Then, What's the point of democracy?
Control over the people in this way it's not democracy.
Democracy is freedom and equality. The opinion in the people is what it matters.

@mvols42: The point of government is not control. At least, it shouldn't be. The point is protection; an individual cannot protect himself if he is small and weak. If he bands together with others, and they give their small individual power to a concentrated group, that group will have the height of the group's combined power and be able to protect itself. A labor union is a good example of this; the company could walk all over them if they weren't in it, because a minimum-wage worker cannot afford a lawyer. But if every minimum wage worker puts in a fraction of their paycheck to the union, the union can buy them a lawyer in court. The company will treat them fairly, because they have the power to fight back now that they have banded together.
This thread speaks of a bad government who abuses this power. If the people are not protected, do they not have the right to, once disbanded from their government, create a new one that will better protect them?

and @M&C: I would suggest many peaceful demonstrations, with much public attention. Call news stations around the world before you act, so that if your government acts against you by sending police or imprisoning people, the world will know. The government will look like the 'bad guys', and good people will be compelled to take your side. Gandhi and Martin Luther King Jr. did this, and brought about great change.
I can spread awareness in my area and on the internet, if it would help, and if you decide to take this route. Here on The Dollars you could start a thread on the Missions board and ask for help with publicity. I'm sure the dollars would readily help you.

>>22 I like your idea, and I would be very grateful if you could really spread this on internet, about our situation!

I'll start a thread in Missions too. Thank you!

Count on me, I'm also going to spread it!

Independence is something that has always been taken by force. Not that i condone violence, but when it comes down to it, both those craving freedom and the government will do what they deem right regardless of those around them.That's a great idea, but still, people will do what they see fit.

Bump!

independence is a great ideal but is nigh impossible to enforce. powerful people will take power and some people are born followers, take the end of WW1: that was a shit-show because the treaties didn't specify any government, many of these countries haven't recovered to this day.
Like >>22 said, a government should be there to protect, not control, but this would never work in our modern society as our daily life is centred around money and this lifestyle would destroy an economy.
But, overall at least, I do wish that we were given more freedom for our daily lives, maybe a social democratic state?
Damn, I just realised how old this thread is.