I wasn't sure if I should have posted this in technology, for a a few reasons:
1. The Tech thread seems incredibly inactive
2. This relates to SOPA/PIPA
3. Those who don't know what it is, can learn
4. and I wanted to hear what the Dollars had to say, and wanted intelligent debate.

Hear that?
INTELLIGENT
Don't come in here with bullshit knowledge and facts trying to make a point.

Anyway, what do you guys have to say about torrenting files, programs,games or music?
We all know that torrenting movies or anything involving the movie industry could get you V& quicker than a CP owner, because the movie industry has put money into that type of investigation.

Those arrested are charged on grounds of theft basically, and put away for a period of time or fined out of their keister.

Most that are against torrenting would say that it is because it is stealing, and it is wrong.

But let's be honest here, sure, stealing is wrong, but from a companies and industries that make multi-millions a year? By being criminals of a different degree?

In my opinion, I feel as if Torrenting is like being a Robin Hood.
You take from the rich and give to the poor, sharing among your comrades (seeding).
I do feel though, that torrenting newer software or new media is a bit extreme, so sticking to older stuff is better.
And it is also unfair to those who buy the same product, and you have gotten it for free.
However, the prices that are charged are a bit outrageous for such products and items sometimes, and that is why I feel it can be justified.
Do I see it as stealing?
Yes.
Do I think it is necessarily bad, or evil?
No.
Do I think the law should stop wasting time on people who torrent?
Yes.

IMO, Torrenting is just another way for us to share things among one another.
Remember the days when your parents (or you) recorded songs from the radio, to give to their sweetheart, or blast from their stereo system while they jammed to it?
Same idea.

No one really gave a shit then.
Why give one now?

Well I personally am on the fence about it.
Millions of people torrent shit during any given period of time, so it's impossible to actually stop it. But at the same time, millions of people not paying, say 7 dollars and up on movies, music, games, applications and so on (just an example, not sure the general pricing on most stuff these days), does actually, in-fact, take a lot away from the companies that produce the items.

Take 1 million people, stealing stuff that is only 1 dollars worth. That is 1 million dollars. Now take more than 1 million, taking things worth up to 50 and more, in things such as games, and programs.

It's a lot more than people thing. As I said, I'm really on the fence about both sides.

>>2
Think. Not thing.

Ok, I'm not in any sides, but I do understand what you mean. Torrenting isn't exactly right or wrong(not saying it is or isn't), but seems unfair. I do realize that many people try jail breaking products/softwares, giving them a half the price, or for free, and yes, I also realize prices have been changing lately. (sorry if this post sounds similar) But I'm still wondering why many torrent?(besides the fact that they want a cheaper price), when the actual product is the true form?

i torrent, it is wrong as all hell. just kidding, i think of it as sharing, that is all. in my opinion

I don't torrent. I don't really think there's a legitimate reason to "cheat the system" and obtain files for free (except maybe when said files aren't available in your country). So I don't partake in this behavior myself. Although I don't really have a problem with others doing so.
>>2 I don't really think your argument about the money is all that valid. Yes, that's a lot of money lost by companies. But it's money lost by a bunch of really large companies, so it doesn't really affect them that much

Bottom line, other people can torrent and I don't care, but I'm not gonna do it myself. It's not evil or anything~

>>4 Torrenting for many, is just like sharing something cool.
Or maybe they want outdated software.
Or they want to experiment.
Or want free porn.
It all depends on the reason.
You can torrent just about anything.
So for anything you can torrent, there is any reason.
lol

IMO I would only torrent for sharing(seeding) with others.

Sharing is caring! Besides,$ .99 for one song, now that's stealing.

>>7 lol okay, I get it. XD

>>8 especially when it comes to aids.
i think that it should be legal besides all these producers have enough money with their automated toilet seats and sexy maids the are also cybernetic robots that can instantly teleport pie to your lap.

>>10 "especially when it comes to aids"
I lol'ed

bump

Well the fact it's illegal, nullifies the many who still like to do it.


They can't stop it, but it doesn't make it legal just because you can do it. You can do it, you should if you're going to nonetheless, but it's still very much a criminal act.

Again, I am on the fence, but I'll still TRY to weight in the cons and pros about both sides the best that I can.

>>13 "but it doesn't make it legal just because you can do it. You can do it, you should if you're going to nonetheless, but it's still very much a criminal act."

I never said just because everyone does it, it doesn't make it illegal.

In my eyes, I simply see criminals fighting criminals over money.

How exactly, are the companies themselves criminals? Making you pay more money for an item than that of what you're wanting to spend?

Im my opinion it's beating the system so it's perfectly ok. If you have the knowledge and go through the effort to get what you want for free they you have earned the right to steal. I used to do it all the time; now that I got a job though I always buy the products from the company because I want to support them for providing me the things that I like. It's really on opinion in that way.

>>16

So if you could kill someone, and learned how to, with a lot of effort involved, you've then earned that right to kill? Your logic is very much fucking demented.

I also agree that torrenting is very similar to being Robin Hood, but what about when you torrent something from say an up and coming band or an indie game. You aren't stealing from the corporations anymore, aren't you taking from the little guy. Just like you.

I don't feel media is a durable good. Therefore, a company should not make revenue from it after three years. So if it's more than three years old, then I will me more lenient in its piracy.

There are exceptions, but generally only if the content isn't commercially available (such as the background music from various anime).

>>15 Legally, a company can make a return on a digital product forever. There is no limit to how long they can demand money for it. I feel, personally, that's an exploitable and therefore criminal system.

However, I won't deny that the acts we do as pirates are criminal as well. Therefore, if I am called out on it, I will have only myself to blame.

>>17 Your over-thinking it, killing and steeling are completely different.

I support it, I think that it made the net what it is today, and as widespread as it is today. I grew up in a country that didn't have much, but I still had the newest game or movie that came out, that made me want to try better, strive for more, and now I live in the US have a job, and buy most of my stuff (I still torrent a game every now and then before I buy it).
I think that the big companies should be thankful to torrents since they got us hooked on their stuff!

>>17 Keep your mouth shut son. Celestial's logic made more sense and was much more well thought out than yours.
We aren't talking about taking a life here idiot.
Stay on fucking topic.
You support the big wig companies?
The fucking steal from us, and exploit their products, for money.
Pirates are simply the Robin Hoods.
>>18 I wouldn't pirate smaller corporations. Never.
Why?
I support the little guy, and like celestial said, I WILL buy something from a company I want to support.

But fucking companies like Microsoft and Adobe, that sell programs and OS's with bugs BUILT IN? So that consumers have to spend money to fix the shit? Or get new serial numbers?
No, fuck them, and fuck that shit.

Low Orbit Ion Cannon
that is all

>>24 What?

>>23 I agree with you, open source companies alert that software is not stable. Microshit Winblows and others like say' "IT'S READY" when the software is still medium rare. It needs to be stopped. I wish more people would use Desktop LInux for a while to teach them a lesson. .....Why don't the Dollars have a custom Version? (just a thought)

>>25 What >>24 stated was basically naming a program used to facilitate DDoS attacks. Funnily enough, it's completely irrelevant to torrenting.

Honestly, my take on torrenting is similar to MKOLLER's take. Still, there is one additional thing that can motivate me whether to torrent or not, and that is regional price discrimination. Before people accuse me of not understanding how economics work, yes I do understand that there are additional costs when trying to sell a product outside of the country it was made in, such as the shipping of the physical media and import duties/taxes. Additionally there may be a price buffer inserted to absorb any potential losses caused by currency fluctuations. However, this does not excuse doubling the price of the product, especially if the two currencies in question (US and Aus for me) happen to be usually be roughly equal with a degree of error of 8 cents either way. And before someone asks "Why don't you just order direct from America then?", I should state that once I notice this price difference I start acting on a principle that I developed back in the NTSC/PAL days - why should the companies be allowed to shamelessly grab every cent they can? Why can they choose to discriminate against certain customer bases? Why can they restrict which versions of a product a customer base can reach and utilize?

(For those not in the know, NTSC and PAL were different formats that were instituted into various different machines based on the refresh rate of the TV - NTSC was 60 frames per second and generally instituted in the Americas and Japan, PAL was 50 and instituted everywhere else. However, even if you had a TV that could run both formats, the various products around wouldn't let you run the other format - a PAL PS2 couldn't run a NTSC game. So along with the regional price discrimination, you couldn't even escape it back then due to being unable to even use the cheaper product unless you performed various less-then-legal actions on your machines.)

>>27 THIS

>>26 Why do you have such a vendetta against Microsoft? For starters, they release updates to their operating systems and related software for free, just like the open source organizations that distribute linux based systems. Second, Windows 7 is well worth its cash when you consider that nearly everything is compatible with it.

The problem I have with linux distros is you have no choice but to use open source software (here's looking at you, LibreOffice, OpenOffice, GIMP, etc.) that is horridly behind the times or clunky to use, or you have to attempt running programs through Wine (which is buggy as shit). I have never found a use for linux that I couldn't just use Windows for.

I have used Ubuntu 10.04 and 11.04, as well as JoliCloud OS. Each time I was disappointed and quickly reverted back to Win7. Here's why:

- MS Office 2007+ is way better than OpenOffice and LibreOffice (and yes, I paid for them each time)
- iTunes and WMP are way better than SongBird
- Photoshop is way better than GIMP and GIMPshop
- The audio editor I use is Windows/Mac only
- Google Sketchup is Windows/Mac only
- The drivers for my laptop have compatibility issues with linux based operating systems.

Torrenting

Simply put....makes my life easier.Helps me work.Helps me game.Helps me modify.Helps keep my GFs happy at night til I come to bed with them.(Mostly serving as a large pillow for them incase u thought somethin pervy) And finally we have my favorit torrent...The wikileaks government document collection.

Torrenting huh?
i'm on the fence ^^


well, it does sound bad but hey, sho doesn't do it? it's not like it's 100% bad either isn't it? if people don't get things by torrenting well think about singers and other famous people... torrenting can help them earn money by: making them more famous, spreading their names, giving them more fans that would be willing to get their products >.> and hey, another example eBooks.... is this illegal? might be, but still this helps people to get old books or maybe limited ones or ones they can't afford.

In the other way, most people look from the "negative" side and say that either it's illegal, it makes the real producer loose some money [ which MAY be true ]

everything is like.... quite equal for me. you lose some money, you get more people willing to buy your product too ^^

>>1 My views on torrenting really depend on what it is that you're torrenting.

When it comes to music, as long as you're not burning it onto a CD or whatever and selling it, and as long as you're supporting the company, I don't see the problem. I don't agree with torrenting music from smaller, unknown bands, though.

When it comes to very large, popular softwears that cost ridiculous amounts of money (which they often don't need to cost), then I have no problem with torrenting.

I don't have problems with torrenting an online game. They open up a few more adspots on their websites, and tada, they're getting ten times as much money as your subscriptions would have cost. And don't try to argue this point - I've had websites before, I have made websites before, and I still take care of other people's websites for them. I have also advertised online before. That shit isn't cheap; most places get their income from this. And if it's a downloadable game anyway when you're going to spend most of your time off the website, shitloads of ads aren't going to kill anyone. There are other ways of people advertising that aren't as blunt, as well.

Basically, it depends for me. I'll torrent from money-grubbing companies and businesses that could get an equal amount of money by putting effort in elsewhere, but I won't torrent from small businesses/groups or anyone that really needs the money.

>>29 For the record, I think Open Office is fucktons better than Microsoft Office.

worldwide

>>34 You're not even good at trolling. Just go away already :V Learn how to troll right before you come back.

>>33 But, but! It doesn't have the RIBBON!

>>36 :|

>>36 I find Microsoft Office more difficult to format on than Open Office. Microsoft's programs are always so unorganized and just bundled together. Maybe other people like it, but now that I have experienced a much more organized program for writing on, I know that there are better choices for me.

Fair enough. Personally, I've been using Office 2007 since it came out (and then 2010 when it came out). I've gotten so used to where everything is that whenever I try to revert to the old layout I just want to tear my hair out.

>>29 Okay yea sure, Microsoft releases updates, but even within those updates, there are still bugs and shit. I remember when I first got my laptop. Had vista installed on it.

Couldn't play ANY type of CD game.
WHY?
Because a program written into the shitty software blocked some type of starter application in the game, and that prevented it from running.
I was pissed.
Tried calling Microsoft.
Wanted new software.
They wanted to charge me 250$
Then I asked about installing 7 on my laptop from the extra 3s bit CD we had laying around.
Same price.
WTF Microsoft.
Hung up on her.

Its been quite a while since that day,
and I will give you one guess what OS is running my laptop (even though, on Microsoft's website, it says my compy should have kicked the bucket doing so by now.)

They lie.

The computer itself, the machine is capable of so much more than what companies like Microsoft sell it of as.
So much more.
As long as you have the HD space, then you shouldn't let your computer stay conformed to Microsoft stupid ass standards.

>>40 32-bit not 3s lol

>>40 The whole $250 thing makes absolutely no sense. No operating system costs that much, let alone software to fix a supposed problem in the operating system. Also, if you knew what application was causing the compatibility issue, couldn't you have disabled UAC and just went in manually to fix the problem?

I will grant you, Vista was shit. I used Vista; I hated it because of the horrid bloatware it contained. Have had no problems with Win7 thusfar (32bit and 64bit; one a Toshiba that my mom now uses, one an HP that I currently use). But the bottom line is, if there is a problem, it doesn't matter what the problem is; there are workarounds for it. Sometimes they work, sometimes they don't. Your experiences with Windows are a lot like my experiences with Linux. Yes, one costs money while the other does not. But I'm willing to pay that money to ensure that I can get software that was properly coded for it. Plain and simple.

>>42 That is the funny thing. It wasn't even for a new CD or nothing
It was for a new FUCKING SERIAL NUMBER/ACTIVATION KEY
I WAS GOING TO PAY 250$ FOR A SET OF FUCKING NUMBERS AND LETTERS.

It was something written deep within vista, I couldn't remember. All I remember is that they first told me to wait on updates to fix it, and it got worse instead. So that's when I called.

And it was some type of firewall program I believe...

Gosh it was so long ago..

>>43 Then yeah, they were fucking with you. Feelsbadman.jpg

bumping shit off main

you really have to watch out when torrenting on first party torrent sites like iso-hunt or pirate-bay, sometimes even demonoid, that shit will catch you when you least expect it...i almost got sued for downloading diablo II cause my cd was gouged and blizzard sent me an email threatening to prosecute if i used it.

bump for reading this thread later

>>47 divine, you always have the most interesting reasons for bumping. lol

Pirating is not truly a crime. They claim we pirates have stolen data, music, etc. SOPA and the rest of the bunch are attempts by the Billionaires who truly control the government (otherwise known as "The 1%") to control "The 99%" and bend the world to their own preference. The truth of the matter is this, We Pirates have stolen nothing. One person has bought the game and allowed his "friends" to copy his game information; the same applies to music and data. In recent years the media has attempted to thwart said "stolen goods" by setting codes for authentication purposes. Hackers have taken the liberty of exploiting their faulty securities; some (such as LuLzSec)hope to show them the errors of their ways (or may have ulterior motives). Despite this we pirates are some how still to blame. In conclusion I ask you, my fellow dollars this, "When was it ever illegal to copy something on the internet? A place where copying is 95% of everything."

>>49 I want to smack you hard...but then I dont...my hand is confused.

>>49 May I please hit you... repeatedly..?
Yes, you have stolen it. Most pirates accept that fact, believe it or not. It's a given that is obvious by the law. Just because things are copied on the internet, that doesn't mean you have a right to copy whatever you want.

Alright, so I write a copyrighted book and put it for sale as an e-book on the internet. Someone comes along, downloads it, and then turns around and hosts it for free. Not only are they breaking my copyright, but they stole my book and redistributed something that was making me, the hard working artist, income.

It is stealing, whether you like it or not, by law. Just because it's on the internet, that doesn't mean you have every right to do as you please.

>>50 You want to smack him/her. I promise.

How about open source technologies? where everybody can participate and contribute to a project. e.i. source codes and stuff. My mind tells we should implement this on mobile platform and segregate rooms on local cities (too far fetched idea). I think the simple process the site possess (simpler register) has potential. (ignore this post if you found it non-sense)

Torrenting is definitely stealing. Music, movies, and software are all copyrighted and owned by their respective companies. It doesn't matter if you think that those companies are ridiculously rich and they are ripping off the public. Artists/Actors/Programmers really work hard to come up with a great product and often don't make as much as people think.

I wish people would use the many alternatives to torrenting. People can listen to pandora or spotify for free music. I do believe that 99 cents a song is a rip-off, so I buy music when Amazon or Barnes and Nobles have their $5 album sales every month. People can watch some of the brilliant filmmakers on youtube. Or if they want actual shows and movies, watch Hulu or Netflix. $8 a month isn't that big of a sacrifice. For software, I use open-source alternatives that often turn out to be more customizable and efficient. There is seriously no need to torrent.

>>54

Yet it continues.

bumping for order

bump for great justice

>>54 Reasons against what you have said were already posted.
Read the fucking thread before posting.

　 ／l、
ﾞ（ﾟ､ ｡ ７
　l、ﾞ ~ヽ
　じしf_, )ノ

>>58 Lol, I did read the thread, and I just read it again. I can't tell which part of my post you have a problem with, so I'll just address both parts.

For the first paragraph, the only "reasons" against it were unsupported opinions by individuals. In fact, many of the views on this thread agree with me, stating that torrenting is theft. Which it is, at least in the US, under the Copyright Act of 1976 and its subsequent amendment, the Berne Convention Implementation Act.

For the second paragraph, only open-source software has been discussed on this thread, with users have varying opinions on.

Anyway, I would love to read and respond to more opinions on this thread.

>>60 Honestly, your assessment for your first paragraph is pretty much correct as far as I am aware. Still, I think that it should be stressed that there are legal uses for torrents, such as files shared under "creative commons" or whatever the proper term is. Just because the public majority of torrents are theft doesn't mean that all of them are.

For the second paragraph however I guess that my point regarding regional price discrimination is a possible counter. Although your argument is nice in theory, when a service actively punishes you for buying from a cheaper region by banhammering your account it becomes a moot point that cheaper alternatives are available. Considering that Steam is considered one of the cheapest respectable online retailers, that is just plain annoying. But maybe that's a bad example. Using alternatives are all well and good until you get punished for it, and that is assuming that there are accessible alternatives in the first place. For example, Hulu is America/Japan only, restricting the possible alternatives elsewhere. And I'm still trying to work out how Amazon justifies charging $20 for shipping from America to Australia when it took a whole month and a half to get here, and that the item in question was a single CD in a box.

Still, my apologies if my post comes off as being really angry as my computer keeps on freezing up every few seconds, forcing me to constantly retype what I am trying to say. Hopefully what I typed above was a semi-valid point though.

>>60
For your first paragraph- Most of us, even the pirates, admitted it was stealing,regardless.
BTW, Unsupported opinions by what?
Sources?
If you want sources I can delivar.

For your second paragraph- You don't think that those companies make more than enough/ dont have the same money grubbing tactics as the big companies do?
>>61 gives perfect evidence against this.
Netflix just raised the subscriber price not to long ago.
And sure, all these may not be large sacrifices to YOU, but to someone who may have been fired w/o notice, laid-off, fired due to unfair reasons, or just has had bum luck in the job economy, its a way to get by.

　 ／l、
ﾞ（ﾟ､ ｡ ７
　l、ﾞ ~ヽ
　じしf_, )ノ

Im not that intellagent, so all I have to say is that, if you buy it its yours and you should be able to use it how ever you want.

>>64

Well, we're not saying 'buying it' because then you're not really Torrenting it. It implies downloading it from another source, without having to buy it.

>>64 Intellagent...

*sigh*...
I at least admire you putting in some decent input.
>>65 I think what he is saying is for those who buy the software/games/media, then put the information for it online.

Bump.

bump

bu,p

I agree with that robin hood shit. But I don't really see the need to torrent music that much anymore nowadays because there are so many freaking websites that you can just stream from, or youtube where you can just type what you are looking for and have something to listen to or watch.

bump

bumping shit off

Bump.

C'mon! LETS GET SOME CONVERSATION GOIN!

http://dollars-bbs.org/news/res/1330588004.html There are Magnet links now, not torrents, psha! so last 5 minutes >_>

>>74 It doesn't matter. People still talk and debate history don't they?

In the before time (Before the newest internet laws and such) i used to download via torrent sites all of the time. I never thought of the implications of doing so, but regardless, i kept downloading. Nowadays i don't see anything wrong with what i was doing, for several reasons
1: I'm poor as shit, i couldn't afford any of the things i downloaded
2: I'm cheap as hell, I'm not gonna spend my hard earned money on some movie that's just gonna end up sucking anyway
3: I always downloaded things that i couldn't get a hold of in the U.S., everything that i downloaded was from the Japan-land, for example, eroge and galge games, you know, that one rare game that you can't find.
4: It was just fun, i have no clue why but, whenever i downloaded anything i always took great joy in the seance that i had "Beat the System", i also liked the anticipation of waiting for something with one seed to finally finish downloading. I liked having everything i could ever want at my fingertips.

Rest in Peace BtJunkie

bump

>>76

A few of your reasons are fucking retarded. Because your poor, you don't see anything wrong with taking what doesn't belong to you.

I can see a lot of valid reasons for a lot of people, but yours is low. You don't want to spend it, so you steal it. Because you refuse to actually work for it, you steal it.


The one about things you couldn't get, actually makes a bit of sense. Because not many will throw out the cash to pay loads of shipping just for 1 game, or 1 program or songs, or shows/movies.

I am a programmer. And as some of you may know, some of the programs I need are about 400-$2K. I can't afford that without an income of some kind, so I torrent it. Also, when it comes to Ubuntu downloads or some other free software, torrents make the downloads a lot quicker.

In all honesty I don't entirely care what the government does to prevent pirating. Why? Because we the people will get around it somewhere or another like we do with everything else.

>>78 You need to calm the fuck down. Down bash him for his reasoning.

You sound like someone posh.
You really do.
You attack those who beat the system, when the system is designed for us to always lose.
Wake Up.
Realize that industry is nothing but greed.
I don't care who, or what it is for/from.
Many of the industries people Pirate from do everything to get as much money as they can.
Sure, not working for something, and then stealing it isn't the best.
But some people could work their entire fucking life and still never afford something they really want.
As the income/salaries increase, so does the price of living.
The price of living increases, to kill those at the bottom.

Bump for discussion and justice!

bump for order

bump

DISCUSSION NAO

Honestly, I think it's more like being given a stolen product

>>85 EXPLAIN FOR DISCUSSION,.

no deffenitly not stealing. it is taking advantage of flaws in our own system but thats what a half socialist society does no body can figure out wtf is what with half being based on morals and the other being based on by what a military ran state tells us to do. but ecven so theres no reason to cry oer programs like office or anything there are always the free ersions like open office and stuff. i understand were they get that movies and music are art getting stollen but they get there money back eventualy and if you download it like i do soon as christmas comes around or my b-day i buy the movies books or music that i downloaded so lets just say i was taking it for a test drive ;)

>>86 lol, sorry, Forte. But pretty much because whatever you take when you torrent is a product of someone's job, just like a tv, and Xbox, a couch, a purse, etc. Except in the case of entertainment, they aren't paid hourly. Their wages depend on people paying for their product that they've put a lot of time into. And it's not just a single person, either. It's a team effort. It takes a whole team of people months, or years to make those products. It's not like you stealing it yourself, but it's like taking something someone else stole. If it wasn't a big deal, people wouldn't be trying to pass SOPA or PIPA. (Although, I'm not saying I entirely agree with either one of those).

If they can't break this "WEBSITE" on the outside, as planned according the information's of my source and my fellow "CODE BREAKERS" they will destroy it on the inside. I just hope that the "FLOCK" will get stronger(some might know this), many of them are already inside, like "VIRUSES".

>>89 Fuck off.

sopa can suck a dick

Torrenting is basically like pirating right? I'm cool with it. Why? Because that's how I get a majority of my movies. I'm not going to pay to watch a movie I think is bad, but I can't judge it unless I've seen it. If I had put my time and effort into making it though, I probably wouldn't want to lose money. I disagree with people selling it though. Is that the difference between torrenting and pirating? whether or not it's sold? I used to use Megavideo and video-bb. I had paid for account for both. They were both taken down, though I've been using them for 7 years. I've got another site. Yea, they make a profit. It's cheaper to pay $9 a month vs $10-$20 for the movie or season, depending on if it's a movie or tv show. Especially if I'll only see it once.

>>92 Torrenting describes the method, pirating is just pirating.

Torrenting is a way to download and share files online, so it can basically be used for anything, legal or not. The same thing goes for direct download or streaming sites like Megavideo/upload. They can hold files, but it's technically not their business whether they're infringing copyrights or not. And the subscription doesn't exactly pay for the content, but for various improvements in service like dl speed and such. So the content was still basically available for free.

Piracy is about the content not the method of distribution. And, yeah, it's still piracy even if it doesn't get any direct profit.

Nothing against your personal choices though, I download a lot of stuff too. Just trying to clear a few things up.

>>93 Thank You. I know it's nothing against my personal choice. You were just answering the questions that I asked. Well, then that means torrenting isn't as bad as pirating. It can be legal or illegal. Hmm... I still stick by what I said in >>92 though. I'm okay with it.

Whats truly evil is capitalism, in my opinion. Enough people actually buy the stuff so that all the big names up there can put money in their pockets. In my opinion, beating the system is a fitting description. And i get why its illegal and all, but i dont think its fair how hard the legal system comes down on people or websites who do this (like megaupload for instance).
Personally, I pirate because its easier than going out to a store to buy something, like a video game for example. And buying things online is still a hassle because Im 15, and I have to ask my parents to come fill out all the credit card info with me. The money is one thing, but personally, I would actually buy stuff if it was as easy as torrenting.
Thats just my opinion.

>>95 you make a valid point but piritaing from indi desingers is messed up ... i mean i pirate so much but i only pirate indi games to see if i like them

Bumping bullshit off main

>>88 I see what you are saying, but most people that torrent, buy the software or whatever first, then upload it for users.
To me, that is simply sharing.
I share games with my friends.
I give them rides places.
I give them food I have bought.

Is this bad?
No.
Are they stealing?
No.

Those systems are set in place for the big guys to make money.
Doesn't make any damned sense that this is seen as such a criminal activity.

Movies, I can see, especially ones that are brand new to the theater, because the data on a DVD hasn't been released yet.

But still, people used to make mixtapes and burn cd's for each other in the 80's and 90's
Noone gave a flying fadoodle then.
Why now?

because.
CAPITALISM.

>>98 THIS!

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I torrent my brother does and my dad does and we still go to the movies we still buy games, music and movies so I see no problem in torrenting because come on this stuff was made to entertain and the companies still get more than enough money to keep going well anyway that is my opinion

I always viewed pirating as more of a "beating the system" kind of thing, at least for me. The only reason I pirate is if it's nigh impossible for me to get it legitimately.

Let's take for example, I want to watch...I think it was A Game of Thrones. It was basically impossible to watch the first season anywhere. Hulu didn't have it, Netflix didn't have it, the DVDs were unavailable or sold out. I just want to give you my money, why won't you let me!?

Piratebay gave me what I needed easily. It's not because I don't want to pay, it's because the service is easier.

>>102 This too. Let's take for example, I want to watch...I think it was A Game of Thrones. It was basically impossible to watch the first season anywhere. Hulu didn't have it, Netflix didn't have it, the DVDs were unavailable or sold out. I just want to give you my money, why won't you let me!?

Perfect reasoning right here.

The only way I'd torrent something is if I already owned a legal copy.
Like, two years ago I was setting up a new PC and I had a copy of Media Manager for my PSP. As I was removing the disc from the case it broke in half. I thought about torrenting it, but I found Media Go on Sony's website saw it had all the same features and was free, so I went with that instead.

>>102 This! Or if you really can't afford it. Not everyone has the luxury to buy all of their favorite movies, tv shows, cds, etc.

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Hjfurid

I dont know too much about this topic, i do however (as a gamer) know about what pirating a game does to the system.
To everyone that pirates a game and then hates on the game because it isn't good enough or what they wanted. Well you only have yourself to blame for that, the people that pirate the games make it so the company has less money, the less money they have means the less money that goes into future games. Now you may think 'but surely the extra money will just go into their pockets and not future games' this is true in some form, but the less money that gets into their pockets, the less they want to invest in a future game because it isn't enough profit for them.
You as a consumer have to take responsibility and fork out for what you want.
And to one thing that has been posted on here a few times 99 cents a song is a rip off?? how? Think of how many times you will listen to that song, how many hours it will end up becoming. Now think about how much a pint costs you, and how long it lasts, or say a bar of chocolate and how long that lasts.. yet your willing to buy them. So why not buy one song for 99 cents that will be yours forever? It seems like a good deal to me.
For people that have little money, not an acceptable excuse, i live on a council estate, both parents are disabled and i ant find a job.. i still have a gaming desktop, plenty of games, sony vegas (which is a shit ton of money) an xbox 360 and many other things. I got all that from saving money and working hard, making sacrifices. The excuse that you torrent to save money, it's just that, an excuse. I can tell you people out there that have all the same games and software i do wont feel as good as i do about it, because i earned what i have and am proud of that fact. In my eyes there are no excuses for torrenting/pirating something. Oh and one more thing, if people actually kept buying things instead of pirating, then prices wouldn't rise as there would be a larger money flow within the system.

>>109 You've got that last part backwards, kid. Prices would still rise. The higher the demand, the higher the price. The lower the demand, the lower the prices. If they can't sell a game because everyone's pirating it, they're not going to raise the price - they're going to lower it. If games are selling well, they're going to raise the price.

If you pirate games, movies and things like that, they're just going to stop making games and movies and things like that because they're not getting any money. If you like a game you should support it.

>>110 Not from what i have seen. With piracy being a big thing now i still have not seen a game lower it's price. In fact they keep getting more expensive. This is even more apparent with the rise of second hand game shops, that are a big hit to the industry, yet brand new games seldom go for lower prices. Not for a long time after release anyways.

>>112 Its because gamestop pretty much has a monopoly on the gaming market. I don't know how old you are, but when I was younger there used to be a variety of stores that sold video games exclusively. Now all I see is Gamestop. They are a problem in this as well.

Also what you said in >>109 about songs being 99 cents, Do you know how much we buy our music from other websites that is non-profit? around 12 cents. Yeah, that is just itunes jacking up the prices. Mind you that was when I used to buy music.

>>113 i have no idea what gamestop is. I'm from England and where i live no shop by that name exists, in fact the only brand new gamestore around for me now is Grainger Games, all the others are second hand or closed down. I'm now forced to buy games online pretty much, which sucks, but hey i get on with it because i like to show my support to the game developers, the distributors i couldn't care less for, but the developers deserve the money for making good games, hell a really good game and often i will buy it on multiple platforms too.
Also you just said that that music is sold non-profit.. That's a big difference to the business that is itunes. A business is all about making profit, so I dont ever complain when they try to make some. 99 cents for a song for life still seems a fair price to me.

>>114 its a videogame store

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I believe if you have the money to buy the product and support the people making the product, then you should pay for it. I wouldn't apply this to larger company's ( like Electronic Arts / Treyarch ) [ btw. I am going to use video games as an example. ] Because they rake in so much money that they REALLY do not need. However, gaming company's that are just starting out and need the money to thrive, such as.. Supergiant Games ( who created the beautiful game, Bastion ) should receive some payment for their work so that they don't go under and can continue bringing the public unique content.

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>>123 So torrenting one company's games is okay, but not the others? That's a double standard. You shouldn't say its okay to torrent the big companies games since they have money, but its not okay to torrent games from companies that are just getting into the market. That's like saying its okay to rob the the rich but its wrong to rob the poor, either way stealing is wrong.

Torrenting is wrong when the torrents are illegal. I can see that. But, like many others, its convenient and easy, so I do it. /hypocrisy

>>132 *cough*RobinHood*cough*

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and be kind, always seed please :3

I think torrenting is a dangerous game to play, but if you think you're smart enough to do it and not get caught, then go for it.

Time to time I torrent a lot of huge files. I've been doing it for several years, and I've never gotten a complaint letter from my ISP. Which I've had several different ones. I think it depends on how hard the law is about it where you live.

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I think of it this way, if I torrent something I create a copy of the original work. No one is down a DVD or game, in fact they don't even lose any money they already have. What they lose is the potential for me to buy something, which if they made a good product they'll get back since I make it a point to buy the stuff I really like.

Is it illegal? Yes. Is it worth the jail time and fees brought down to "make an example" of those caught? Probably not

Opinion: The world is filled with "open minded" and "narrow minded" people. And with that in mind, there is always gonna be a problem like this just because both sides exist.

But, correct me if im wrong, you gotta look at both sides, our side wants free stuff, their side wants the money they lose in the longrun.

>>141
Well in all actuality, they didn't make it, just so they will end losing money down the road. They made it with the intent of gaining profit. It doesn't mater how, why, or when. The fact remains, they made it, and they have final say over how it's distributed. Not the consumer.

http://weknowmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/condescending-wonka-on-the-avengers.jpg

>>142 That's a good theory - I'm happy for ya, and I'll let you finish...

But torrents seem to be a fair indication that Consumers have the final say on how they want things distributed. Or, you know, this whole piracy issue wouldn't be... an issue.

>>144 Legally, that isn't true.

Basically, if it wasn't stealing, it wouldn't be illegal.

sdfss

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Personally I torrent music, games, etc. sort of as a trial. If I think it's worth the money I'll happily spend the dough.

Personally I think torrenting is just fine. Be it for hard to find files or programs, roms, emulation, etc. Torrenting itself isn't illegal, but illegal things can be done with it. Personally I dont have any problems with torrenting as some people want to "try before they buy", for others it's watching anime that hasn't event been released in the country and may never be released in that country.

As for the corporations they can just deal with it. Especially fatcats like the MPAA making record profits year after year hand over fist, they really need to butt out. You cant stop torrenting or piracy, you can only try to limit it. The best way to limit it is to simply provide a better service than the pirate at a reasonable cost. To otherwise add in DRM or try to implement archaic laws like SOPA and PIPA (which thankfully failed) is really only going to push people deeper into piracy. The pirates adapt and evolve and they usually tend to be ahead of the curve anyway. Maybe if they weren't trying to control the internet in the name of piracy and make prices reasonable (movie theaters are getting expensive, and some programs like Microsoft Office are overpriced imho) and provide a better overall service piracy wouldn't be as big, but still existent.

http://www.avaaz.org/en/petition/Grant_Peter_Sundes_of_The_Pirate_Bay_plea_for_pardon/?fhDIodb&pv=27

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Ok, say that torrenting and file sharing was ban.
What do you think would happen to all the other companies?

They would probably increase the prices on all there products since there is now now way around paying if you want it.
This could lead to better movies and games but it could lead to us using a lot more money then we normaly would on entertainment.

So way do you guys think would it have a positive or negitive impact on the economy or society?

Não aumentariam, nós iriamos fazer outro jeito para compartilhar torrenting, para todos. please translate - PORTUGUESE BRAZIL

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I knew that it is stealing,but i want to be entertained....i only use torrent because there is no cinema or original games store in the country where i live right now,and when there is,it's very expensive.The real stealing thing is when u use torrent and then sell it to people....That's what i think

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I would buy the dvd's or blu-rays but i just dont have the money ://
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And, a some things just aren't available in the united states. soo.....

Torrenting by itself is not illegal. As the y say, it's just "sharing something you have", and as long as you don't claim you have made it, or try to make money on it, it's perfectly legal. But, if you download a cracked program, or something like that, then you are committing a crime, because the crack itself is illegal (modifying in any way a non-opensource program is illegal). In fact, the way the content is being sold is way too abusive in some places, so it forces the people to download. For example, here in Spain, an E-Book version of a book may be more expensive that the "dead tree format", so you are almost forced to download the book, and after you have read it, buy a hard copy.

Like others, I'm on the fence depending on what you torrent. However, even if most people only torrent the stuff that's not as bad, there's always going to be someone who takes it too far. That one guy who takes something a bit more serious.

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I personally find that Torrenting is a fine thing to do, especially for books and media. I use it like a giant online library, to watch and read things that I can't otherwise find or buy at the moment, and then if I like something alot I'll make the extra effort to actually go buy myself a copy.

I agree, except about the part on buying stuff. I mean, yes I would buy the stuff IF it was available but since I use torrents primarily because I CAN'T buy original copies where I am, or am too impatient to wait for the thing to come to stores in my country.

Don't know what my life would have been like without torrents. I'd probably never have watched all these great shows, gotten hooked on anime for a while, read the latest books when they came out, seen old movies worth watching, or video games that are no longer on shelves. There are some advantages to using torrent clients while living in a third world country, like the fact that you don't get arrested for piracy(if the government wanted to they would have to arrest practically everybody I know of).

So yeah, even though my studies probably took a beating 'cause of all the downloading, I will always think of torrents as a way to beat the system(although there isn't much of one).

Cleaning...

I didn't even know this thread still existed. lol bump

Huh, this thread is still here.... Well anyways, I personally see no issue with torrenting, unless of course you are stealing from a company and handing it out everywhere to the point that instead of paying for it, everyone is just getting it free, then that could effect the economy (Of course not MAJORLY but still, we need to keep it from getting worse) Otherwise if it is something like a old movie or a old game, sure, why not?

I've came across torrents that looks perfectly good, but, there is a problem with them. What is not known by new torrenters, but should be known by torrenting veterans, is that movie companies are intentionally putting movies on sites like thepiratebay, and waiting for people to torrent the file, because when they do, they can turn that particular individual over to authorities. Movie companies have put bugs that can clear a virus scan and transmit IP address and location back to the person who put the file up. That's why I put my own files up for people. Sure, it costs me some cash, but, I known my fellow torrenters aren't getting the proverbial shaft when they want a particular movie or game.

I really don't see much wrong with it. A lot of movies and albums are overpriced these days, and all a torrent costs is the price of your internet connection, and you get a lot of them. I usually just use torrents to check something out however, like an album or a movie. If I like it, then I'll go and buy it. If I don't, delete it. Yes, it affects the economy, but it's basically just a free test. There are people that go out and just take the torrents, and I have no problem with that either, because they do overprice things like DVDs, Blu-Rays, Cds, etc.

>>181

But you do realize you most likely couldn't do what they do, and such words like "overprice" is a bias opinion because you don't know how hard they work to make the products.

I don't agree when people don't pay for it just because they want to see it and can't buy it. It might be a digital copy, but it takes time for them to convert stuff to work for computers. We may have it easy now, but it still takes programming to get a lot of stuff to work, and people are just fucking those honest working men and women over.

It's the companies fucking you, not the people making it.

I think it's relatively agreed upon that it's the companies and not the artists screwing people out of their money and I do agree with this idea, however the notion that people only torrent to bypass payment is a bit presumptuous. Am I saying there aren't people who do this? No. But just as there are people that do it for the sake of free things there are also people who torrent as a means of viewing a product before purchasing, if say, it can't be afforded at the moment or it's from a possibly new company and you may not want to invest in anything that may not be worth $40-$60.

This is just my take on things though and I'm sure someone already posted something similar but I'm honestly too lazy to read through 180 posts.

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Well, as someone studying to be a Game Designer - I don't do it - and I don't think I'd like it if people did it for a game that I made :(

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Well, this thread really shouldn't be called "torrenting" because what it's actually about is pirating. I have absolutely no problem with torrenting. 99% of the music on this laptop was acquired through torrents. Mind you, it was all hosted free from the makers of the music because they WANT people to torrent it. (OverClockedRemix makes my world go around.)

Pirating...I have a huge issue with. You have an issue with someone's pricing? Grow up and get over it. People have the right to charge however much they want for a product. If they're charging too much, don't buy it. You don't have any right to their product, so don't act like you're entitled to it.

Particularly when it comes to music, if you like the band enough to want their music, I think that means you should like them enough to actually support them. Some people like to say that the company is taking most of the money and the band only gets a small portion anyways, so who cares? I see that as "They are already hardly making anything from this so I'm gonna screw the band over even more." I'm a musician, and honestly, I don't really care if I make money right now. But if it ever became my primary source of income, I'd be pretty hurt if someone just downloaded it and I never saw a return.

.99 cents a song is too much? whatisthisidonteven

And I have one thought in regards to the overall company hate here. The artist you supposedly love entered into an agreement with said company. If you are so opposed to the company, you are opposing the artist's business decisions as well. Just a thought.

PS: Yeah, this post is kinda aimless. Probably has something to do with this thread being 50% "Bump"

Pirating is fine in my book. In an ideal world, music and other forms of art would have a higher aim than making money, so it shouldn't matter if it is bought or pirated. Getting the message out should be the main aim. It's like how we spend so much on donations to presidential candidates and other (mostly) unimportant figures, while there are starving children and sick people all around us. People are stupid, selfish, and greedy.

>>198
But there is no ideal world. Money talks. Always will. Torrenting will never be illegal. Pirating will be, and I honestly think it should be.

I don't care if people do it. If they don't get in trouble, fine. If they do, they deserve everything they get.

>>199
Pardon me. I should have put an "idealist" disclaimer.

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bump for great justice (and watch the pirate bay documentary - available for free via torrent)

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I only torrent things if they're impossible for me to get in any way, or if I'm just down right broke.

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Honestly I think torrents are fine, its not stealing, because stealing implies that you take something away, when actually you are only copying it, the original is still there, nothing was lost, you just gained something for free. I do agree with the statement that it takes millions of dollars away from companies, but when they are constantly over charging and those who torrent are still a fair minority, who can blame them, some of them can't afford the things they torrent, and there are those who say if you can't afford it you shouldn't have it, but what about those who can't afford food? Should we stop feeding them? And yes I understand the difference between needing food and wanting a video game, but most people do need the entertainment to avoid the stress of everyday life.

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I only really torrent games that I ether owned(that broke) or games that were lost(I hate when that happens!) I was seriously tired of buying multiple copies of F-zero GX.

I hate when people take from there popular & not cheap games like Sims. It's not fair.
But I don't think it's bad when someone download a few films.
It's not stealing at general it's wonder solution for people which aren't rich.=, but we shouldn't take every thing from there.

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>>197 Agreed, torrenting itself isn't necessarily piracy.

Pirating for TV shows makes sense most of the time. If you record the show when it airs, how is downloading it elsewhere any different?

In general though, piracy is still stealing. Piracy either comes down to whether the person cares about stealing, or doesn't mind because the company they are stealing from is Mr. Moneybags.

I feel like stealing from Moneybags could be considered beating the system. I wouldn't steal from a little indie developer, but some companies are bloated enough for me not to really care.

>>215 you... Uh... Posted in the wrong thread there.

>>216 IGNORE THIS POST. I POSTED IN THE WRONG THREAD. OH THE IRONY.

gj Tsuki

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I see it this way. I torrent stuff and then I support the industry. I torrented an album by a band called The Hold Steady, they're not that big a band and I loved the album so I went out and bought it to support them. I torrented Harvey Birdman, loved it and then bought it. I torrent anime and then go to conventions and online and buy merchandise related to that particular anime. So whilst I may not be paying for these goods, if I hadn't torrented it in the first place I would never have bought these things.

I think once something is digitized it should elevated above personal property. That's what the internet is all about. Sharing.. If you take a movie that you bought.. then rip it to your computer.. then /re-encode/ it.. then upload it from your computer it's no longer the physical product that you've bought and you've changed it into something new.

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I can see your point FBI but to counter that, ok one guy buys a CD and uploads it. Millions take his upload and because they got it for free the artist/label make no profit. Now where's the incentive for your favorite musician/actor/game designer to continue in that field?

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>>224
Several things:
1) Millions don't download an upload, let's try not to us hyperboles.
2) Many people don't buy music because they don't want to cash out for songs they aren't familiar with, new artists, etc. Just like YouTube, torrents and uploads provide means of sampling music for free before you make a cash investment. You can download songs via YouTube just as easily. People often later buy the music they downloaded.
Source: http://jci.sagepub.com/content/33/3/206.short

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Ok, so I'm going to say right now that I did not read the whole thread. (Just as a heads up in case I get bashed >.<)
But, I see torrenting to be the same as sharing. I see it as people recording something on VHS and sharing or giving it to someone else. Even recording music on a tape and sharing it. I feel like it's a modern day bigger version of that.

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http://www.gutenberg.org/ (books)
http://www.snapfiles.com/ (freeware)

just thought i'd drop this here... these two are free and legal alternatives to piracy that are safe and bug-free.

Personally i'm for piracy, because i'm both dirt poor and i live in a town that is pretty much being threatened by big companies. they say they have to be able to treat their workers poorly or they're going to leave the city and crash our economy/put our workers out of work. the moment an american company gets big enough it gets corrupt DX

>>226 true millions don't download directly from an upload but once its online they do, next time use your brain. Also i dont know of anyone who will buy something they already have for free. Nice try though.

>>234
Actually you're the moron who thinks once it's online it'll magically get millions of downloads.

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>>234 There are tons of games I could have torrented but instead I bought them, just because it is good to support the companies who make the games I love to play, IMHO.

>>237 I used to torrent music, movies, videogames, anime... I stopped and slowed down recently. As a kid i had no money and i didn't want to use my mother's- now I can buy things- I've read thousands of manga online, yet i have aspirations in comics myself. I figured if you can buy it, buy it. The companies don't get to make more of what you like if you don't pay them; thats how the world works. So I've bought games and add ons- even had to buy a game i'd previously downloaded to put the add-ons on it. I feel I've gone legit. I buy my music from iTunes and complain that i can't share it freely; but my conscience is clear. Stealing is stealing is bad karma is stealing. If i could sing i'd want to get paid too.

>>238 I feel the same way.
I feel "legit" too since I started to buy what I listen to, play and read. You get a warm and fuzzy feeling inside because you know that what you are doing is right.

>>235 I'm not going to argue with you I just beg you to use a little bit of intelligence. Ok millions for one upload is a bit of an exageration in most cases, but it was to prove a point. Please think before spewing mindless garbage again. Thank you, have a nice day.

>>240
You're really the one who should type exactly what you mean, otherwise you should be damn well accepting when people call your bullshit out. Not try to turn it around and state anything on the level of any kind of intelligence.

That alone is just a cop-out for you to not have to argue due to no argument can be had. Not one you can easily find and toss around. So instead you do baseless insults like it fucking means shit to me. I'm only giving a fuck now, due to you not accepting it and just going "Oh, okay.", or better yet finding a decent argument to lean on.

So now let's reconsider whose comments are mindless garbage.

I think it's beating the system because you went through the effort and had the knowledge and you didn't get caught. So good job to you you beat the system, for those of you who bought the products good on you you have legit products.

I really hate ideologies like good and evil, I don't play by those rules. I do not believe in good and evil, right and wrong, morality, ethics, social norms and all that shit.

Those ideas are truly non-existent to me. I do what I want to do, even though I might seem like a very 'bad' guy in terms of me hating all that and doing what I want to. I still have my own rules like I pay all of my debts and I never forget a favor I asked from a person.

That said, in terms of the issue. I do it but if I think that the product (a game for example) is very deserving of the amount it asks, I'd gladly pay for it to support the company.

I'm not gonna go and make some excuse though. Sure, in 'black and white eyes' torrent is bad, sure it is. It might be akin to 'Robin Hood' but from the general good and bad point of things; it's bad. I don't really give a flying fuck if it is though.

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I, for one, am going to buy everything I torrent eventually. I just have issues with waiting for what I want to buy, but I'll still buy it. All the anime and TV series' I have torrented/have had given to me? I'll buy it. Every album I've torrented/forgotten I've bought? I'll buy those too. Those few movies I've torrented as well. Will it take me several years? Yes. The only problem I see with my method is that companies will lose money from the time that was lost between the time I downloaded the product and the time that I actually buy it. That being said, if I waited to get the product and decided to save for every single thing that I wanted, those same companies would still have to wait the same amount of time

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Woah. Didn't even know this thread was still alive...

In my opinion its all dependent on the actual content of the torrent. If you are going to try to get something that is available to you in the place you live to actually buy, then yea thats bad, but if you cant get the thing where you live or its a free creation, like a mod or something, then all is well.

>>250 This.

I've always wondered, yes it sucks that people are going to torrent your software. But it's always going to happen and you're more than likely not going to be able to stop it. Why worry about it all that much? If you have loyal fans, they'll be willing to buy your movies/music/games/whatever you do. If they actually put as much money into their product as they do into trying to keep it from being torrented MAYBE they wouldn't have that problem in the first place.

A common phrase states the piracy is not a victimless crime. However, when people download illegal software, chances are they wouldn't buy it anyway. The company does not truly lose any money. They make less, but nothing is actually lost. Chances are, most torrent downloaders couldn't pay for the software, but rather, they obtain illegal access without paying the company. In earlier history, if someone bought a book, they didn't put it on their shelf. They passed it around and shared it to whoever was available. Once you produce something, it's out their. If your customers decide to share it, so what? You've already made your buck, and still might make a few more. There's no need to gripe about things like this.

o.o i don't know it

come to think about it,I didn't realize about that before!!!!!!!!

Torrents are fine. Its not like its killing anyone. They call it "stealing" but its not like I'm robbing a bank.

Do we really have to get SOO GREEDY where we regulate everything to the point it costs us our privacy? The big corps easily make their buck.

Idk just my opinion. Society is just too damn greedy because our government promotes it.

I believe torrenting is fine. Its not like they are running big businesses out of business or anything.

I torrent frequently. I dont believe it is bad to do it. Think of it this way. For example Black Ops 2 sold over 11 million copies in the first week (imagine what it is now) and is still receiving money from late buyers and add ons to the game. Im 100% sure everyone on the developing team and the producers has made the money back that was used to create the game within the first couple of weeks. So after that it is just pure profit split between the multiple companies. Im not trying to sound like a equalist but why should they keep getting richer and richer and they're not giving anything back. I understand supply and demand but the supply has been restocked. After a while people deserve to get what they want for free or reduced price, especially if the people who made is just filled with gluttony and not helping anyone.

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I agree with the first reply.

PIRATE-PARTY

I see torenting as a benefit for the society, if did right. First of all, torenting is not stealing, because when you steal, you take something away and the victim doen'st have it anymore. When torenting you COPY, which means nobody loses anything and you can enjoy a product for free. now people can say, torenting make people not buy the game, well yes, they surely won't buy it after torenting it, but would they buy of you couldn't torent? I for myself, torent many games i am interested in, but would not buy. The games i would buy, well, i buy them. So basically there is no loss for the company, but i can enjoy more software for no more cost. If doing it like this, there is no losers, only one winner, which is me. Of course not everyone acts by this system but if you do, then torenting is not bad at all.

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I think it depends on the Artist involved. There are several artists who just want people to enjoy their music. I think that it should be the creator's decision. If an Artist wants to encourage Torrents and other "free" downloads of their work, I don't think the Industry should tell them otherwise. Same with generic Files, if the Original Owner (the person who wrote the file) posts it for Torrent, nobody should complain.

As for Programs/Games There are Plenty of F2P games and Open Source programs that are free to access. If someone doesn't want to pay for a program they can use those. Ubuntu even has a Windows Emulator so you wont miss out on your games.

I think torrenting some of those program's is ok if you are honestly thinking about buying and you really just want to try it out in a non-demo version. I believe that if you like something enough you will go out of your way to support it, or you should. Torrenting is miss used but it's not an entirely bad thing.

bumping up good threads
shit I forgot my name o-o

cvb

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Torrenting is perfectly fine in my eyes. It's like testing a product before purchases. Except it's not a dumbed-down demo. Would I buy all of the products I've torrented? Hell yeah I would. Do I have the money? Well...not really. But if I did I would definitely buy them. I don't think people torrent looking to steal. I think they torrent looking to find things they like, and more often than not, they'll buy things they like.

I agree. If they put the Files on the Internet it's legal to take them because The Web is Nationally for everyone who can pay for it. Beside's Think about HBO and Star's It's legal to record them from a VCR because they pretty much gave it to you on the Free Trial Days. If it's free Torrent it because Free They can't touch you because No Money Or Cash was Exchanged. Now if you pay for HBO, Star's, or any program and then torrent it and hand it out for free then it's illegal and a felony crime is committed. Now to Bypass aka Skip all this Just buy it. Even little things torrent-ed ex. Cube World is A Felony Crime! So don't get caught. If I am wrong about any of this comment below and leave it nice for me :D

Who's to say what's right and wrong nowadays?

Any idea on how to become a dollar?

Simply be here and be active (Missons Page)
Complete some task :D

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free stuffs free stuff but some people like to work for their things

In my opinion, torrenting and streaming and everything is perfectly justifiable for content that is not easily available- i.e., censored material in a dictatorial country, or from a more casual standpoint, many series of anime. Just as Valve believes, if it would be easier and more beneficial to legally obtain your content, you would legally obtain it. It can't be helped, it doesn't take TOO much profit away, and more people can enjoy your content

On that same point though, if you come from a well-off upper-middle class family in Vermont and there's an official and legal stream of an anime that's perfectly free and supports itself with ads, and you watch it illegally because you can't be asked to sit through a 15 second commercial two or three times, you're an ass.

>>283

For anime, I try to use Crunchyroll as much as I can, but it doesn't have a whole lot of anime available. Like Kamisama Hajimemashita,or Fruits Basket, or Ghost Hunt.

My opinion on torrenting: "Try before you buy"
Why? Because it doesn't hurt. If you "can" buy it, then PLEASE do.
Support the work of others. If it's not available in your area, then it means they weren't looking to profit from around there anyway, and it doesn't hurt to torrent it.

My opinion on SOPA/PIPA: It needs to go. We don't need someone playing "God" and passing the wrong judgements on people that don't deserve it.

My opinion on the current situation: DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.
I'm bad with sources, and connections. But what I'm definitely going to help with what I'm good at.

I get kind of annoyed when I see people say they pirate because they don't have the money. I'd agree with you if you were stealing food, but you are stealing entertainment. Using piracy as a means of free entertainment just because you can't afford it is like stealing any other luxury because you can't afford it. The very definition of a luxury is that some people will not be able to afford it, that does not give you the right to it. Entertainment is a luxury. You have no right to watch movies or play games or even listen to music. You have a right to food, water, and shelter. If you had to break to law to survive, again I'd have no problem.

If you don't have the money, don't buy it. If you want to try it out before buying it because you want to be safe with your money, go ahead. I do this all the time. But you don't have a right to any entertainment of any kind, so beating the system, Robin Hood, etc. arguments don't fly with me. They seem pretty weak.

However, I also think the industry's response to this is outrageous. The system that spawned piracy on such a great scale should surely be considered broken, or at least considered incomplete? The response to piracy from the industry should be to make distribution and buying entertainment easier, and they should also be using this amazing technology we have created (BitTorrent protocol) to do wonderful things. Instead, they have decided that they should try to enforce the system that created piracy. This doesn't make any sense. Obviously the system now is bad, overcharging, underpaying actual creators, etc. Piracy is bad, people not getting money for what they created, dissuading future creations, etc. The solution is not one or the other. There needs to be a compromise between consumers and producers, but right now it seems neither side is willing to budge. I think that is the biggest problem. If consumers were willing to support what they truly enjoyed, and producers were willing to stop making money on people that don't enjoy what they bought, I think we could reach a happy medium.

Just my two cents.

I think watching an anime, or pirating a game, is fine as long as you are willing to show your support by buying what you like. If you intend to replay the game or rewatch the anime then you should try to buy it.

I think whatever company produces the things we torrent would rather us torrent it if we don't have enough money to buy it so at least we could spread the word about whatever it is. Also I understand that they would rather us purchase whatever it is, but sometimes they ask such riduculous prices it's like if they want us to torrent. For example Sword Art Online english dubbed is going to cost around 360 dollars for the full twenty-five episodes. I will be torrenting it because of the price.

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มีคนไทยรึเปล่าค้ะ

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I'm fine with pirating up to a point. If you have access to the product and it's not ridiculously priced, then I say you should buy it. However, most of the shit I end up getting wouldn't be something I could easily gain access to and if I did, I might be able to pay for some of it, but not all. Plus, how is it any different than putting a cassette tape into the radio to record a song, no one used to have a problem with it.

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Hah..it is gonna take ages to read all of this....but maybe you should....>>300 practically summed it up for me but I don't know about you....I wouldn't mind torrenting to an extent, for example some really expensive album that costs way too much to be considered sane (/to the point where it is ripping people off~)- then I would torrent it...

The act of torrenting isn't ilegeal- unless you torrent a copyrighted material...(please correct me if I am wrong)

To be honest I believe that torrenting is something that is done so widespread and is so common that the government can't completely get rid of it, and I don't think it is wrong unless you download copyrighted material without the permission of the rights holder.

Here's my thing. Torrenting is pretty much stealing, and I'm not ripping on it or anything, I torrent tons of shit myself, I've done more than a few entire games that I don't have the money for. The thing about torrenting though, is that it is an Illegal system for stealing that exists; but do authority-people do anything about it? Nope. Torrenting Sites still exist, Torrent Clients still exist. So I'll just continue stealing if I can.

got to go for lunch log back on when i get back

laterrrrrrrrrrrrr peeps

Torrenting in and of itself is not illegal. That's why the sites and clients still exist. Infact the D&D mmo NeverWinter or something like that gave the option of torrenting their game client.
Torrenting is just a more efficient way of downloading data. Thats why "Torrenting" is not illegal, its what you torrent that's illegal.

>>309 TERA Online also uses this technology.

It's really sad, because torrenting is such an incredible technology, both in theory and in practice. Sharing the load to all computers is brilliant. The more people download a file, the less costly it is to the distributor.

Despite the amazing potential, the FBI and alike organizations have starting attacking it since it is used for piracy so much. I am terribly surprised this hasn't been used more since it really is the next step in data transfer.

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Orihara sent me here.

Torrenting is so powerful but it's really dumb when people abuse it. I personally use it for unobtainable stuff such as jpop songs. When I torrent a game, its usually for trying it out. If I like the game and company I will buy the game when it goes on sale to support the company. There is no need to torrent 100% of the downloaded contents on your PC imo.

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I think that if it's for a program that's very overpriced, and developed by a huge corporation (for example, Adobe programs), it's perfectly fine to torrent. On the other hand, if it's for something like a song by an unpopular band or a cheap game made by an indie company (for example, cheap green lighted Steam games) torrenting is a bit of a dick move.

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>>316 i can agree. Still, moderation is good.

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I feel that it is wrong. But honestly I'd rather get the torrent then go out and repurchase or purchase a game. Plus if I want Japanese games such as Fairy Tail Portable Guild I can torrent it and not pay the $100-150 dollars to purchase it on Amazon. I am sure there are other sites to buy it on but it's the only one I've seen it on.

I torrent -=every=- game or anime or movie. If I like it, I buy it to support it (unless it's insanely expensive i.e. anime for $23 an episode [drives me nuts])

Well, i agree with you all, bro.
But, i always think piracy is a criminal too. In my country, piracy is like a virus, we can't contol it. and the conclusion, Use torrent is a criminal too, but it is a good way to share :D

Just my opinion, i'm sorry if my language is bad.

BTW, i never use torrent, my internet connection is too slow ^_^

>>324 I've heard a lot of people say that, but very few of them actually carry it out.

>>326 , I've bought tons of animes, movies, music (not all of my pirated music because i'd be broke too fast~ but the stuff I really like [indies and such]), and games, after I've pirated them.

Just some examples; Farcry3, Crysis series, Skyrim (twice), Minecraft (bought for 3 friends + self), ArmA2, The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzuimya (also manga after I pirated them), tons of movies (starwars matrix riddick series' and moar [like 300+ movies at least]) and tons more stuff.

If I like it, I buy it. If it's "fine", it depends on how much cash I happen to have at the time. If it's "meh", most likely not (unless it was a good attempt or something unique). If it's "bleh" then obviously I don't.

I mean, I got a $7,000+ computer~ so it isn't like I go out of my way to cheapout on stuff I think is worth the money.

>>327

No offense but if you can afford a 7,000 dollar computer, I really doubt 23 dollar anime episodes 'drives' you nuts.

Bumping.

If you use the pirated media for personal use and to gain no profit then i believe it should be legal, but selling it, downloading the music burning it to a CD and placing it up for sale for those who like their music legally. So as long as its not for money and just personal use...it shouldn't be illegal.

>>327 $23 * 26ep * 2se = $1,196, then add movies and specials...

I 'liked' it~ I gave it a 6/10...
But a 6/10 isn't worth anywhere close to >$1,000

>.>330 I completely agree with you.

>>everyone
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOtdm-g0DCg

Torrenting is on it's own, just the technology and is perfectly fair. Though since this is really a debate on torrenting copyrighted content, not just the technology used:

I believe it to be unethical, though not necessarily stealing. It is closer to dishonoring an agreement/contract. Bill gates once said: “It’s easier for our software to compete with Linux when there’s piracy than when there’s not. As long as they’re going to steal it, we want them to steal ours. They’ll get sort of addicted, and then we’ll somehow figure out how to collect sometime in the next decade.” http://mrpogson.com/2013/12/12/review-of-the-record-on-adoption-of-floss-in-turkish-government/

As these corporations are the same ones known to sue children for hundreds of thousands of dollars, vow to effectively stalk a guy for life, and make it illegal to make full use of your own property., I am starting to reconsider the ethical ramifications of buying content from them at all.

So, torrenting is wrong and I am starting to think that buying from them is also wrong. Personally, I am considering switching to free legal content (like public domain books) and in general phasing out my consumption of goods by big business regardless of legality.

So, even by torrenting, you are helping the corporations that throw their legal weight around as a threat for scare tactics. That's probably just the tip of the iceberg too. In fact, piracy its self is actually a propaganda term for these corporations.

That's not even making the usual assumptions about big business lobbying to reduce worker's rights, shipping jobs overseas, and even censor free speech.

So, it is not stealing, but it is still unethical, and I plan to start working on a personal boycott of some sort.

>>332 I agree with music/movie industry and Apple being douches, but not all companies are like that. Some companies make products that cannot be rivaled by the current free alternatives, and products which I would gladly pay them to use.

The way I see it, torrenting copyrighted content is for kids who really don't have money or douches who don't respect IP or think they're above the law.

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Old thread, why bump it further? Just why?

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>>338 even if it is, it's a good thread. Plus of all the shit threads taking over main.

>>340 Agreed.

And personally I don't really care either way. I think it's just something people do when they either can't afford to pay for the files or simply don't want to.
It also occurs when that particular file isn't available where they are, or is for an outdated platform which is now hard to get ahold of or insanely expensive.

Personally, I listen stream music on youtube until I can buy it.

I also read scantalated manga until I can purchase it, some of which is never actually licensed in the US (to my knowledge).

So this is just my take on it, but I don't think I have the right to call someone a thief for downloading music or movies, it's not really my business.

However I don't believe SOPA will actually pass seeing as how in infringes on our right to information by blocking relevant sites merely because it may contain something that SOPA is against. Isn't this why Anonymous was fighting it so hard?

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A bump for this wonderful person.

I just 'illegally' watched Frozen. I see nothing wrong with it. All these companies we 'steal' from make so much money for themselves off of cheap labor. So whats it to them if we take something that they basically took from someone else?

Well I don't think its wrong personally, just don't try to sell what you get for cash, and if you must, only download stuff you already own, even if it seems pointless. That's my opinion. After all when the law came out it was for beer and drugs. Not for CDs and other stuff like that. So torrent if you want, but if you didn't help make it,produce it or put money into the real thing, don't sell it. Even if you need the cash, the economy is bad and some people are starving or half dead. They need that money more then a kid "needs" a video game.

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Well i torrent quite alot, most of the Things i downlod is shows running on TV anyways...... but i live in a country where some shows is send at obscure times and the dubbed ones suck.

Hi there community!
i have just found my way into the site by chance and i wanted to say hi!
If anyone here is from australia, please let me know I have most interesting info

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What kind of interesting info?

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It's not always bad. Sure it is basically stealing, but if I paid for every song or movie I've ever torrented I would be incredibly poor (especially with how fast I get sick of songs).
With anime, I usually watch it for free online, then if I enjoyed it enough, I'll consider buying the DVD/Blu Ray.
And besides, I'm sure the companies still make enough to live a lot more comfortably than the average person.

Bumping over the Main board spam.

>>359 The problem is, it's becoming easier and easier to pirate entertainment, and people are getting more brave and ignoring the threat of legal consequences. If everyone pirated entertainment, there wouldn't be entertainment. Just because they charge too much for anime and video games doesn't mean it's okay to just pay nothing and make no effort to pay something more fair.

Also, I don't have enough money to buy a nice car, but that doesn't mean I can steal it. Entertainment is a luxury, which means you don't need it. Yes, in the case of stealing a car, there is an actual loss of a car, whereas pirating there is only the potential loss of a potential sale. However, the same point applies. If I can't afford a nice car, there is no reason I should have it. There is no reason anyone should have access to anime or entertainment of any kind. Therefore, not having enough money is not a good reason.

I use piracy as a means of a full trial. I buy what I like, I don't buy what I don't like. I think this is how the industry should work. Something like pop music, for example. You can hear it on the radio before you buy it, legally. I think there should be a legal means to try every form of entertainment before you buy it.

Many on both sides of this issue have hidden behind absolute truths they have declared to themselves and refuse to see differently. Pirates have convinced themselves with certainty that they are fighting the entertainment industry, while copyright holders have convinced themselves they are fighting crime. When you get down to it, most pirates are not pirating because they wish to change the society they live in, but rather because they want free stuff. That is why I disregard most of the moral backing for piracy as excuses.

I used to pirate a lot of stuff, but then I got a couple of letters from my ISP, and I still have Internet access now only because I stopped. There are real consequences for piracy, both for you and the people you are stealing from. Neither are immediately apparent, but they are real.

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