Me and my History class recently had a discussion on philosophy. I wanted to get the opinions of some of the great minds here. Here's the question:

Is man essentially good or evil?

I'll start off.

I am kind of stuck on this one. When someone is born, we are born with no morals or conscience. But we are also not guilty (yet). Man could be evil because before we learn at all, we do what satisfies us and no one else matters, right? We learn from experience and being taught what's right and wrong. But without self control some of us would ignore our own conscience. This is where morals fall in. When we are taught, some people may teach us what's right and wrong and then others may teach us the opposites.

So are we essentially good? Back to the birth and experience. We are innocent at birth and may only know what's pleasing to our uneducated minds, but...we learn from others.

Because I don't have much support for man being good, I'm leaning more towards man being evil. What do you all think?

My mom was asked this question in Bible class back in Catholic school. She said people were essentially evil, and the nun hit her because it was "against the Bible" to say such things about the oh-so-great man.

I personally feel that people are blank when they are first born. From their, thoughts are instilled. However, "good" and "evil" depend on one's moral standpoint. If you think it's fine to butcher someone into sixteen pieces and stuff them in a briefcase you bury in your back yard, you'll probably feel that people are generally good. If you're so straight laced that just cursing makes you a horrible person, you probably think people are generally bad. I don't feel that there is any "good" or "bad" in people because of how varied the possible perceptions upon the world are.

I have my morals and I follow them. However, I don't believe that someone is evil because they have different morals, nor do I see myself and fellow people who share my morals as good. People simply do what they do.

I believe that mad is essentially evil. only because its easier to be evil. a sort of a default setting of mankind. we strive to do good, we go out of our way to do what is "right" and what is helpfull and good to others. so with (in a way) effort we are good but we dont need to even try to be bad or evil. therefore man is essentially evil. though all of this just begs the question: "what is good? and what is evil?"

In my opinion, humans are neutral. This is based on the idea that no human truly has the concept of good and evil, but is simply raised with the knowledge known by those around them. Unless spoken to by some divine entity directly, all we have to go on are the morals we're taught growing up. There is no crystal clear line dividing the two, and for all we know, what we're taught could be the opposite of the truth. +Off to work+ I'll check up on this and maybe add a little when I'm off.

technically this issue is what i hoped to talk about on my thread in random called Though i may not know you hug you kiss you i love you.. but none the less if this is here ( dont know if it belongs here though)

My opinion is that people are Tabula Rasa, empty slate you fill it with what you may and what you fill it with is what makes the person who he or she will be.

>>6 Just looked at that thread you made, it didn't seem too discussiony compared to this thread, or at least gave us something to go on. On though, I just took a quick glance, so yeah. But anyways.

I agree with Umbra and archadmiral, in that people are blanks waiting to be swayed upon by their environment. Unless you're like a sociopath or something. I dunno. Just bringing that up there because fucking psychology class. Derp.

>>7 looked back at it you are right it kinda got confusing after a bit...

well I saw a little bit (20mins worth) of zeigeist (I dont support the movement) but the video had some interesting takes on human developement and how even though some genes can be isolated to mean several negative personality traits, but if those children are raised in different environments.. than it all changes.

I loved that one part where it talked about babies who are not carried or touched at all (even with proper nutrition or diet) WILL DIE... wow so it just shows you the power of little things in experience and how it can affect us substantially.. if death (he most definite of all outcomes) can occur in the absence of being carried, what other things can go wrong that can lead to a multitude of perversions from "normalcy".

In my opinion no one is inherently Good or Evil and even then those are just labels. How we grow up and who takes care of us as well as our environment help shape who we are and might become. Tell a child it's wrong to do something and they won't repeat because it had a negative effect on them. Whereas If the child was praised for doing a good deed they would be more inclined to do more to receive that praise.

Just my two cents.

i honestly think they can go either way its all about thier past thier life and how much pain that has happend to them so it all depends (if thier is wrong spelling im sorry i just suck at spelling)

I don't think humans are inherently good or evil, we are simply too complex of beings to be labeled one or the other; "good" and "evil" are simply words we use to describe our actions. Perhaps good and evil are both entities that humans can choose to serve, and each contains a seed of the other deep inside of itself: Yin and Yang.

I always thought "good" and "evil" were things created by society to keep order (psychologically?) within a human's mind, thus crafting the civilized man. Take that out, and you essentially have two things that are intrinsic to the human: reason and instinct. Whichever one you act on in surroundings not framed by society -- ie, a wild, untamed environment -- with the lens of rational society added on to it would decide what is good and evil.

Essentially, what I mean is that good and evil are only things created by civilization. If mankind was (for some reason) not civilized, then good and evil would not exist -- only reason and instinct.

Friggin Lord of the Flies and Bleach.

Sorry if I sound repetitive.

Good and evil is made by society. People are born with no knowledge of what's 'right' or 'wrong' ... and what is 'normal'? All of these words can't be defined, because everyone will come up with their own definition. If someone is told that abuse, or killing is alright, then there is a high chance that they will be abusers or murderers in the future. If someone tries to steal, and is told that it is bad, then they will stop trying because they had a bad experience with it. Everyone has their own beliefs, it's our surroundings that makes us who we are. Without society, everyone would grow savage... as much as we'd all hate to admit it, it's only our morals, made by society, that make us tamed.

As Chiarosa says, think of Lord of the flies, and Bleach. They both show great examples of this. Like the message in Lord of the flies says... if you're stranded away from society, there is no one to stop you from being who you really are. Humans are animals as well... without set rules to follow, we act just like every other animal on this planet.

I know I'm being a bit repetitive, but this is what I believe.

Here's some perspective for you? Can man be good through evil acts? Can man harbor evil through a facade of good? Let's look at Adolf Hitler. The man grew up poor and wanted nothing more than to be an artist. He was rejected from art school twice, and when his mother died he had no financial support. He was forced to join the Austria-Hungarian Army during WWI to survive. When the war ended he moved into Germany, where hyperinflation was leading to mass poverty. As someone who lived in poverty before, he wanted to help people. He rallied a small group of people to his cause and started to fight for economic change.

This group became known as the National Socialist German Worker's Party. It grew stronger, and started to rally against the German government. Hitler was arrested, and during his time of incarceration, wrote a book that led to even more followers. The Nazi party grew stronger, toppled the weak German government, and then nominated Hitler as Chancellor.

Hitler then decided he would restore Germany to its former glory, reuniting Austria with the German border. He went on to conquer more territories. The people praised him. He eventually conquered the majority of Europe and created a non-aggression pact with the USSR.

So what happened after? Hitler started to delve into the occult. He rejected his Jewish heritage and saw it as a sign of weakness. He planned to purge Judaism from the world, and ordered the destruction of the Jewish people. And you know the rest of the story from there.

ok I didn't read much cuz I'm trying not to pass out heres the fact about mankind we are not good or bad yet we are both we have 2 sides and lern both as time gose by so it has no way to get it right or worng

Define the terms 'good' and 'evil'. They mean different things for everyone.

But I'd say we're evil.

man is free to be either no man is trully either untill he makes the choice of being good or evil if not then he is simple nutral

I don't think there is a divine equilibrium to be kept. Actually the idea of such a thing is stupid from the start, if you believe in an all powerful god is at war with a being that god created and there is an actual chance of that god then losing you're just an idiot.
Society expands on morality and creates "goods" and "evils" for its own benefit but does so in an abstract way. Morality exists only in society because that's the only place its needed. Now society is created via a social contract that all members of society buy into because of the mutual benefit it allows( ie. you can be an artist or a scientist because if someone tries to kill you other people will try to stop them, also we establish private property and such). We've had social contracts since the dawn of recorded history. So maybe our moral system isn't real, in the sense it would exist without us but it is real in the sense 99.9% of humans are abiding by it or actively choosing not to(that is still the acknowledgement of it). That makes it real. I mean the world you see around you isn't real, its your mental construct based on imperfect data provided to you by your heavily flawed senses. That means the world around you as you see it is as real as society or a moral system. Now outside of the moral system there are truths. Things like 2+2=4, things you can learn and know that represent the actual reality around you. Those truths I would argue represent "good" based on its definition. "Evil" would then be ignorance or false information. Illogical action would then be an act of evil. Logic being good, means that all logical action and knowledge are good and then ultimately to learn all knowledge you need society and its morals. I believe from birth we understand there are these truths and we're driven to seek this truth because it "illuminates" our reality. That is why we formed society, so we could continue to search for truth. Its hard to figure out math if you have to worry about everyone else in the world trying to kill you. It very easy to figure out math if people help each other.

Another way to think about it is to say a part of man is an animal. Man like all other animals has this instinct to him. Its primal, it lacks reason and ask only that its drives be met and met instantly, this thing is only able to think about this second. Another part of man is a reasoning being, he posses logic and the ability to contemplate both future and past. These forces are opposed within him. The rational sees others and think of how together they can ensure not only that they all satisfy their drive today but tomorrow, the animal sees others and thinks only of how it can use them to satisfy its drive this instant. The reasoning being can contemplate the consequences of action, the animal can not. I can not tell you which side is more you, I can tell you that the rational side lives longer and better in every instance compared to the animal simply because it can evaluate the situation better.At the most narrow definition of good, which is personal gain and pleasure one benefits most by working with others(ie society and its moral codes. The idea of cooperation leading to better results for all isn't some abstract goody goody garbage either its proven in things like comparative advantage. I support morality and society( in theory) because it helps me do better than if we lived in anarchy, I could care less about the rest of you.

All of that said, I simply don't know if there is an absolute good and evil, or code of morals outside of us. No one does and no one can, so its stupid to try and act like one has the answer. We can only hope to one day learn the truth. Still I think that conduction one's self in a manner that allows one to reach that truth is the best course of action until that truth is made known.

You can't really categorize man as a whole. It's like saying that ALL the people in Afghanistan are terrorists. Some maybe be, some may not. You've got your good people, and your bad people.

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>>18 Paragraphs are your friends.

First of all, "good" and "evil" don't exist really, they're just social conceptions created to domesticate the human being by measuring him with desired and unwanted behaviors.
Then, the human being is not "good" nor "evil" initially, he's put on this labels later on when society evaluates him. He's just a creature full of instincts, just like an animal and we all know that animals don't have moral sense so they can't be "good" or "evil".
This human being full of instincts just thinks in one thing: to satisfy them, and here is where the concept of "good" and "evil" comes in. You can satisfy your instincts BUT you have to do it the way society wants you to, you just can't go and rape someone because he/she is hot nor you can steal what the other person has because you want it. So the human being learns how he should behave: If you behave properly, then you're "obedient", "correct"; if you enjoy it and go beyond behaving yourself such as doing charity (for example) you are "good". But if you don't behave, then you are a "criminal", you are "bad"; if you enjoy it and find pleasure in doing "bad" things, in satisfying your instincs the way you want without thinking in the other person (the instinct of killing, for example), then you are "evil".

That's my opinion.

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>>22 Honestly, I can see your point here. I very much so agree with this statement.

>>22 I agree with you, I see your point there.
Well good and evil are actually not existing. Although the essence of good and evil, meaning our perspective on them have pre-existed even before us. Simply put the application of these two traits in our life are simply the absence of the other. An example of this is that being good is the absence of evil and vise versa. Further it is simply the acts of man that give these traits a positive and negative meaning.
At least this is what I think. XD

"It is ridiculous to try and divide men into good or evil, men are either charming or tedious." - Oscar Wilde

There is no good or evil... just perspective and opinion.

I read an article proving that humans are born with a general sense of right and wrong.
Although we're born with the sense, it obviously doesn't get more complicated with morals and such until later. And I think that definitely depends on the person. I'm going with the simple belief that every person is different and you can't group all of man into bad or good.

But, let's get with some examples to support this.

Since a human is born with the sense of wrong and right, it doesn't mean they won't still do bad. If a person was raised as a wild animal would be (to steal/kill/do what they can to get what they want or just to give into their instinct) they would act as a wild animal without guilt for most of their life. But even when you realized some wrongness of your actions, you'd still do it because it's accepted and doesn't seem to cause any harm in your animal community.

However, if someone showed you the harm of the things you're doing, you'd feel guilty. Unlike an animal, because humans are smarter. Humans have a sense of right or wrong. And, there's this personality trait only humans have to basically give us opinions on things. Our intelligence and this trait is what separates us from the animals. Dogs have a little bit of this; it's how they can grow to love a human (actual love, not dependency), in my opinion.

Humans are complex. Our intelligence, sense of right and wrong, and that certian personality trait I explained, don't allow us all to be grouped into 'evil,' or, 'good.' It truly depends on the person and the working of their brain.
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Well, there's my input on this subject.

I saw this in an episode of Community once...

Man is evil by nature. Some correct their mistakes, and some stay evil. But man is born evil.

>>22
Let me say one more thing, using this comment as an example. (more useless rambling)

A lot of people say good and bad don't exist, they're only titles made by society, etc. I disagree with this.

If man wishes to follow only instinct, and it's only society holding them back, than why does society exist in the first place? Who made society? It's not something there because it appeared above everybody's head one day- man made it. The man who wants to only follow instinct and desire created society; the society with titles like 'evil' and 'good' to hold him back. Why would he do this?

Because he knows certain instincts cause harm.

Even most animals don't go around raping females to satisfy themselves! Peacocks strut those feathers until a female picks them.

Satisfy. Humans won't do something evil to satisfy themselves because they would feel guilt at the harm their actions have caused.




....Or, something like that

I believe if it feels wrong, it is wrong. There is a place for evil people and a place for good people in this world. I mean, if one did not exist nor could the other. We would not label evil as 'evil' because, let's say, we lived in a world where everyone was good without anything else, just good. Being in this fantastic world, we would not know what 'good' is because we would not have known anything else, if that's all people ever knew, and this also means we would have no idea what 'evil' or 'bad' was, seeing as no one had done anything of this nature. So is man good or evil? I'd have to say both.

It's as it says, we were neither good nor evil when we are born. We are just doing what makes us happy. If people ignore what we are doing, we will never know if what we are doing is wrong. We were taught what is right and wrong by our parents, teachers, friends, etc. It's because we are brought up like this, we know what is right and wrong.

>>30
ONE MORE THING!!
"Humans won't do something evil to satisfy themselves because they would feel guilt at the harm their actions have caused." is a flawed statement. As I stated earlier, it depends on the person.

Just let me sum it up. Unless you have some type of mental disorder, we all know what right and wrong is. It just depends on the person if they want to do wrong to satisfy themselves or not.

>>33 that's because we were taught at a very young age what is right and wrong...

We are not evil. Humans are naturally kind and caring to their fellow man, because we work together to strive. We can't accomplish much alone so we stick together. We also do care for other things as well, like animals and nature. We live with our environment and so we take care of it and try our best to not destroy it (that would make us vulnerable). As for animals we do nothing to harm them; it just comes with taking care of our home really.
So now your wondering "what the hell is this guy talking about?" and im am specifically talking about our true nature; now a days we have material possessions, such as money that has become essential in life. No we could give 2 shits about anything but ourselves; living in America they teach you to only look out for yourself and fuck the rest; whatever you do do it for money. That is what I have learned MANY Americans think. I don't know about the rest of the world but they probably have the same mentality (or close to it). Again naturally we are good people (like you wouldn't believe how good-heated people really are) we just need to find it with in ourselves to get back to that nature.

I don't think there really is a good or evil in man. When you that man only wants what it desires, regardless of if it's good or bad because the lack of morals, then how would it be goo/evil when they have no intention of either. When morals are finally establish, you find that man only does evil things because they have the best of interest at heart, whether EVERYONE else approves or not. So I would have to say that, no matter what horrible things may does, they always o right in their own mind. PLEASE KEEP IN MIND THAT I SPEAK OF THE MAJORITY AND THAT SOME PEOPLE DO THINGS THAT THEY UNDERSTAND RE WRONG BUT JUST DON'T CARE.

Hey, this quote may or may not be relevant to this topic.

“Man is by nature a social animal; an individual who is unsocial naturally and not accidentally is either beneath our notice or more than human. Society is something that precedes the individual. Anyone who either cannot lead the common life or is so self-sufficient as not to need to, and therefore does not partake of society, is either a beast or a god. ”
-Aristotle

humans are neither good nor bad because we will never be able to reach to ultimate end on either side

a quate "theres nothing more scary then human stupidity, i know what those animals will do its there instinct. man, however, will do what it so pleases" not sure who from.

I beleive that it is up to the individual. We are all different right? So how can we all be born the same (as in good or evil) When I was really young I remember wanting to help people just cause it made me feel good, some of the other kids I knew liked doing bad stuff. So man is nether good or evil but the individual

To me, man can be both good and evil. The people make their choices. But there is goodness in man's heart. Their minds are just clouded. If we follow the way of god then we will have nothing to worry about.
My opinion

This question is unspecific as you aren't asking from who's perception are we evil or good to. To mother nature, we are probably the most evil things to walk the planet. To advancement of technology, we are advancing it and being very "good". I'm not quite sure how to answer this as your asking other humans if humans are good or evil...

I love how everybody is so involved! I love the answers here! Keep it up :)

>>14 I see that you put a lot of research into this. I never even knew that about Hitler. Where did you learn that? I would enjoy hearing more.

>>18 Your comparisons between man and animal seem very accurate. And I also see what you mean by society CREATING the laws between good and evil. Your deep understanding of human nature is very stimulating to the human mind.

>>22 I see you have some of the same understandings as >>14 . I also noticed that you got right down to the point towards the end. About man's behavioral tendencies and perception.

>>28 I see that some of our views are the same or similar. I also noticed your comparison with humans and animals. This gets me thinking... how similar to animals are we? How much does this have to do with our perception of good and evil?

>>31 And if there was a world with all evil then no one would know of good. Putting what you said and what I just added there, it makes me think of stereotypical Heaven and Hell. What do you think?

>>42 That's the point, to ask humans about it. Humans argued over this for a long time during the Enlightenment. I wanted to know what people of today think.

Please, people! Keep it up :)

I don't think we're either. Humanity is Humanity.

Good and Evil are silly things that came afterwards, I don't believe they apply to anything outside of badly written fiction and scare tactics.

We are all evil. We are all good. We are both and always will be both. Good people do evil things, and evil people do good things. It is as simple as this.

>>45 I agree... they're all words society just made up, for one... and all those words fit all of us. We all have our "good" and "bad" moments.

Not really people probably say that to scare people. U can be good but people could be evil.

I like your example, OP, but I disagree with it to the extent of flipping it!

Babies are not evil. For me, subjectively, I don't think self-satisfaction is evil at all. It is the beginning of great motivation and it motivates us to do the things we want. The "good"-ness of this is not that we hate someone and killed them, but the fact that we accomplished something that we wanted to. Of course, "society" (how cliche!) distorts that view a little, and says:
"Yes, of course it's good for your to accomplish your goals, but make sure you don't hurt someone in the process."

So a new "good" is born.

But you see, this is where I think "evil" is also born, disguised in the form of "good." I don't want to say that I hate society, but it's true that natural principles get distorted when we start to understand and associate with others. Babies are the genius of the universe, and they do things with the principle that "Nothing external has any control over you," said by Ralph Waldo Emerson, a Transcendentalist leader, before even hearing these wise words! Babies accomplish, they are champions, and they listen to no one but themselves. It is when we "learn" that evil begins to take control of us, without us even being aware. I've read a self-talk book recently that said that in the first 18 years of our lives, by average, 148,000 "no's" have been said to us, and only a few thousand yes's. Of course, this number proves nothing but (to me) "trash science," but you can't deny that many times you have been restricted of your full power by someone more potent than you by telling you "no." To me, when you begin to associate with these people who are all influenced by others, your power becomes limited and enclosed in a tiny, small space, smaller than anywhere in the universe (and to imagine that babies, when born, had no idea how big the universe is!), and if there exists such a thing, isn't that what you call...evil?

I think that when were born that we have no choice in what you call it good or evil because we dont know the meaning of it and we don't under stand, we could easily do something good in our own mind but hard for us to do something evil until were of age we know murder and slavery and robbery is marked as some of evils big points and we don't do them, well that's the normal person, and then there are the unusual but still them selves still normal but they thought of good and evil is different, but then after they find that they were the flawed ones and that they were very wrong, but then again there are the ones that stick to there sense of good and evil was right and yes they were wrong, but unless we see what they see, they will be wrong and right fully judged and end of story, so whats trying to be said here is that were all different and were all good until we our selves say were evil or branded so.

I think people make there own choice some were thought the difference between each one so it would be there own choice if they want to be good or evil .

we r both. we come with good but also evil. pending on the heart of the person is when u get ur answer

We are both equal, good and bad, light and darkness.
BUT, there are some who more of one than the other.

I enjoyed a lot of this conversation. It reminds me of the Enlightenment, and the argument that some people had that there should be freedom because man is inherently good, while others viewed that we needed a strong moral figure to follow (i.e. the king and church) because man is inherently evil.

Good and evil are totally arbitrary though, so I don't think there is an answer unless you make the terms completely concrete. You could say some people are born more or less evil, but then again, if they're "born" that way, is it really their fault? Also, it's funny how we peg things other then human to be "good" or "evil". Good and evil are not only subjective, but completely human thought concepts. I can't say a monster, that is not human is "evil" even if it eats people or something. It's not bound by any moral obligation except it's own, if it even has any or if morals even exist to that creature. I think evil and good need to be heavily defined before anyone comes up with anything more concrete then pure speculation. Interesting topic though, classic question. Always fun to see what people think :)

First, I would like to make clear that I didn’t want to say that instincts are bad or following them makes you “evil”. I just wanted to make the point that, from my point of view, the human being is a creature full of instincts and that, initially, he can only relay on them because that’s what he “knows”, that’s what’s natural to him.
For example, let’s focus on a really young kid (1 or 2 years old maybe). If he’s hungry, he wants to eat; if he’s sleepy, he wants to sleep; if he sees something pretty and wants to hold it, he just does without thinking of the consequences this may have on the world around him. He just “thinks” on what will happen to him if he does as his necessities and instincts tell him (satisfy him and make him happy). If he’s hungry and wants to eat, he will cry for food without thinking “Oh, it’s 3am and I will disturb my poor mother who’s sleeping if I cry, that’s not cool” and will feel guilty about it, no. He’s a creature that’s ALL instincts and is just starting to get to know the world around him, this kid is too young to separate “right” from “wrong” because these concepts aren’t natural to him and he needs to learn them. If this young kid sees another kid’s toy and wants it, he will take it without hesitation and he won’t feel guilty about it because he doesn’t know what he’s doing; he doesn’t get that his stealing from the other kid and that’s a bad thing, he just knows that he’s holding something he wanted and that makes him happy. He will feel guilty when he learns what’s “right” and what’s “wrong”, because without knowing these concepts he can’t feel bad about something he thinks it’s good for him.
So, the thing about “good” and “evil” comes when you are fully aware of what you’re doing. When this young kid learned about “right” and “wrong”, he also developed the feeling of guilt because he now KNOWS that he shouldn’t be doing bad things because SOMEONE ELSE told him that’s not ok. So then, the human being knows that it’s ok to satisfy he’s necessities and instincts as long as he doesn’t cause harm to the world around him because he learned that’s a bad thing. When people is willing to do right, we call them “good” and when they decide to do wrong, that’s when we call them “evil”; at this point it kind of depends on the person. I think that, above all, the man is an innocent creature and a very domesticable one because he can learn stuff, apply it but, sometimes, he can also think for he’s own and do as he pleases knowing what he’s doing.

(It continues with other topics, but I though it was too large for one post so I will post the rest later xD)

Is a man inherently good or evil? Well, let me answer on a personal note. We are, as a base, neutral. It isn't until we are exposed to certain elements and factors that our Good and Evil Scale start tipping over. Those factors could be a lot of different things: how we were raised, how we personally view things, outside influences, etc etc.

We're all born without very much guilt, and quite a lot of innocence. It's not until we begin to grow up and our mind starts to develop that these concepts of "good and bad/evil" and "right and wrong" get embedded into our minds. That's where I begin. I don't look at when a person is just now entering this world as a physical, biological being. I look at when a person is entering this world as an intellectual that is able to think coherently, and all that shazz.

He/She is neutral, because he first starts off with merely the knowledge of what is good and what is bad or evil. When he/she begins to actually do stuff, that the labels come in. A person is able to learn and do, what he/she learns and what he/she does depends on the the person.

we are born neutral and raised one way or the other.

>>56, >>57 nice way of sum it up

>>57 Just like in Pokemon!

>>57 Just like in Pokemon!

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>>53 Yeah that's what we're talking about in my history class. It's so interesting.

I love ALL of your points of view!

Bump

>>55 Very true, however what many people fail to realize is that many of the most "evil" people have little to no empathy. Meaning, they both don't realize what they're doing is wrong on a moralistic stand point and don't care, because their brain doesn't register the idea of another persons pain. In a simplistic sense they are born purely selfish and it turns out most people who lack empathy get one of two things with their personality 1. Anti-social, meaning they generally don't know how to handle people and are mostly emotionless and apathetic Or 2. Charming as all hell and probably living the most normal "perfect" lives. Often very good talkers and convincers. These are the ones who've learned to mimic empathy/strong emotions and normal lives. Often no one around them knows the difference at all and would never guess this person physically can not care if you're in pain or if anyone else is, however, they mimic it so well that you can't tell the truth. From what I've read these people are often suicidal too because they know they're missing something many others around them genuinely have. It seems to be a pretty depressing mess up in how we've evolved to have some people born with out the ability to care about others. I'll say it again to make it clear though, that is NOT these peoples faults, they have no control over the fact that their brain doesn't register empathy. This also doesn't mean that all of them turn into killers, but most killers do not have empathy ... For that matter, most people who work in high profile businesses and selling (Wallstreet, marketing) don't either (Not all of them of course, but a rather large majority - Makes sense given that their jobs often hurt people pretty badly either short or long term - Sales are just betting on another persons ignorance to know everything about what you're trying to sell them and wallstreet just makes profits off of peoples climbing up ladders, making cash if they get to the top or of they fall, both can be profitable.) That being said, with the connotations the word "evil" brings along with it, can you really say someone with out empathy, even if they know it's wrong to do something, but they don't care is evil? They have very little to no conscience and it's not their fault. Now, people who do have a conscience and still defy that empathy by killing, those I'd consider evil, but then again, doesn't anyone who hurts someone else in self defense doing the same thing? They're defying the empathy they have against hurting another person, which was previously defined as being "evil" (doing something you know and have taught to understand to be wrong) Sure, it's in self defense, but you're still hurting another person, sometimes more then one.

Also, on instincts. Yes, we're instinctual creatures, which I find to be quite a big flaw in our evolutionary design that I hope we'll evolve out of over time. Emotions over ruling logic gets us into trouble from every standpoint, moralistic, evolutionary, survival, personable, psychological, it's rarely if ever a good thing to be all emotion in any situation, not that all instincts are just emotion, but many are driven by it. We are also one of the few species ON THE PLANET that can over ride our most basic instincts and commit suicide. Most other creatures can't consciously do that at all. We're less instinctual then we think and it's probably one of the only few things that set us apart from other animals, that and our empathetic nature that allows our range to go past just our own species and feel for creatures big and small (a child feeling bad about hurting a small animal on accident, say a cat or dog by stepping on their tail is pretty much unheard of for every other creature on the planet) Also, as we grow we learn to control our instincts. Babies have every emotion they feel play on their face and actions. I believe that gets mostly under control by the time you hit 4 and this from what I've seen doesn't seem to be something parents teach, it's just something that happens through our natural growing up evolutionary process (probably the only reason babies are so instinctual is because they can't speak or ask for what they need or want - Once a child learns language, instincts really start to take a back seat.)

One more interesting note that I've always wondered if anyone else thought of. Everything we consider "evil" (murder, destroying someone, greed, being cruel to someone for your gain) actually all have a basis from an evolutionary and survival stand point. If all of us were murderers, one, it would be normal and wouldn't be "bad" and two, our species would die out. Murder is "wrong" because it would destroy our species and from a human nature coding, that is bad, because every fiber with in us wants to survive (which again, it's amazing we can commit suicide at all with how much your body fights for survival, literally every moment you're alive really) Greed and being cruel in some way (physical/psychological) towards someone is also an evolutionary thing ... and a retarded one. Greed and the like should ONLY come into play when a desperate time calls for a desperate measure or preemptive action, such as storing food, more then you may need though (humans are really bad with calculations so we compensate by having more then we need just in case - Often that goes at the cost though of another not having enough) The preemptive action would be the cruelty shown towards another, say taking their gf/bf because the species might die out and you're the alpha with better genes to ensure survival for the kids. Or just killing off a few people so there is more food for yourself and family. All of that is just survival instinct, but the thing is we don't need to live on survival instincts in our day and age. Our bodies just aren't in tune with logic and our internal selves don't seem to get that there is plenty for everyone, no need to be paranoid or scared. Our society doesn't help with this, as we're taught to distrust, hate and fear everyone we meet for the most part, or only trust certain people (ostracization/exemption/exile) when most surviving and thriving species work together as much as they can on the whole. Stop thinking in I and start thinking in we, because whether we like it or not, and especially in todays day and age, we depend on each other, and everything else around us for that matter for survival and to be able to thrive.

Our minds/souls are ahead of our society and our society is ahead of our pre-programed and out dated instincts.

To tell the truth, I don't think there's all that much of a difference anymore. I believe it's all about who's side you're on nowadays.

>>Alluysion please use paragraph breaks, you seem to have valid points sometimes but the orgy of words just scare me from jumping in. And am sure many others :)

>>64
In the field of psychology, there is an ongoing debate whether how much of your personality is reflected off of your genes vs. your environment. From my standpoint, I see it as you thinking personality ("instinct") or traits coming directly from the heart of the people, in our own species, you say, and although I may agree, I don't think you're using the principle of "evolution" correctly.

Evolution, in the most simplest yet concise terms, means, depending on the environment, practical genes live on as the less fortunate die off. If your theory proves to be true, that instincts and emotions are flaws, then you'd have denied your own argument of "evolving on," because then that would mean emotions and instincts would have somehow helped us in the past, to have still be present today.

To be honest, I feel as if your argument is weak and a bit contradictory. You say that we should all work together (so Democratic!), and to abandon our self-survival instincts to embrace a new...survival instinct by working together. And although I do understand on how you imply that greed and cruelty would be eliminated if we all did that, I would have to say that that idea, also, is outdated. As you have said, we have no need for survival. What's more is that goods are plentiful. We are higher than that (as I suppose you live in America, though I may be wrong), and we need not to help each other survive [anymore], but to do greater. Survival is primitive. It's no longer a sole thought, only by those who are unable to keep up with society. People today think society as a standard, and while yes, we help people who are under that standard ("work together," "depend on each other"), the people who are well-off are changing the world.

If we all do as you say, stop the internal flame inside of us that strives to do more (as you have said), all we will have are a bunch of average idiots who do nothing but simply "survive." The reason why that idea is primitive is because in this day and age, we do not want to simply "survive" anymore, but change. That change can only be made by distancing yourself from others and moving forward by yourself. Some people may take from others to do that, and some people may do cruel things, but in the end, great things are born. It's only in the world of competition can humans actually become better than what they were meant to be.

And to say, if these traits were really part of an evolutionary sequence, then it would be wise to say that in the future, if this trend continues, then all we would have are brilliant people who go above and beyond, regardless of whatever method they use.

You see, it's because we take the time to help the lesser fortunate, in the evolutionary ideal, that we still have the poor, unsuccessful, and unhappy. And maybe you may say I have bad morals, or that I don't care, but it's not like that at all, because I still do pay taxes and I still do every now and then donate some food or clothes. Of course I want to help my fellow Americans. It's just that truthfully, the world/"society" is ever-so progressing that if you do not keep up, you may be left behind, and what's more, you may be dragging the rest of the people down.

TL;DR:
I think it's important to realize that our world doesn't function on "survival" anymore, because that is a primitive way to live. As you have said, it is on par with how your own body functions, a "live today" attitude, but as you have said, we don't need to be that way anymore. But where I disagree is that we don't need to depend on each other to survive either. Survival is not a problem in today's world. Today, we are more advanced, and rather than thinking of "just living," people believe in being better, creating better, and changing, so we are better. Surviving alone is outdated, but also surviving together. And as for the people you talk about who really need help surviving, as they are becoming corrupt by themselves, you don't have to worry, because the world will leave them behind...because they are primitive thinkers; amateurs.

No matter how cruel this actually sounds, it goes by the law of evolution in which you've introduced. But I suppose maybe if we'd pause to help these people and bring them up, we could also stop their formation and bring light to new, more advanced people/thinkers. I guess that's the moral way to go, but really...successful people don't stop for anyone.

>>64 Well, on my last post I was referring to ‘normal’ people, sane people, who have the ability to FEEL and think properly about the consequences of their doing. I quote myself: “[…] when they decide to do wrong, that’s when we call them ‘evil’; at this point it kind of depends on the person”, I said “when they DECIDE”, decision brings along (or should) understanding of what you’re doing, if you KNOW that you’re doing wrong, then you’re aware that you may hurt somebody else and if you are a sane person you may feel guilty about it and that’s when you ‘ARE evil’ to society because you know what you are doing and are willing to do it anyways.
Then, I said “it kind of DEPENDS on the person” because most of the time it’s the person’s choice to do ‘right’ or ‘wrong’; BUT if that person isn’t sane like the kind of people you’re talking about, then he can’t choose because he isn’t capable of feeling and understanding the consequences of his doing. This person doesn’t care about other people because he has no empathy, as you correctly said, so he can’t feel guilty nor know that he’s doing wrong. As you also said, this is not their faults and may be this people isn’t ‘evil’ either because they’re not sane, they aren’t like everybody else and they’re ‘evil’ before our eyes because we can recognize that they’re doing wrong while they can’t (although I’m not so sure about this because I don’t know shit about psychology and this kind of people at all). They are ‘evil’ to us because they can’t feel anything, they seem cruel and what they do it’s wrong in our standards but, for example, justice has consideration for this kind of situations because we aren’t all the same and it depends on each person (talking about crime specifically).

About instincts, I have to differ with you. In my opinion instincts are part of the human being that will never completely go away although they can be tamed and masked by society or ourselves, witch they are. They are part of us just like emotions and our rational mind, you can’t deny what you’re, you can ‘control’ it if you like but not make it disappear. I don’t think of instincts as a flaw or being totally emotional, yes, may be emotions are a way of manifestation but I believe them to be on a totally different aspect of our being.
When you said “We are also one of the few species ON THE PLANET that can over ride our most basic instincts and commit suicide. Most other creatures can't consciously do that at all.”, you said it like a good thing? May be I misunderstood but I don’t see that as an achievement for humanity, to commit suicide is a very sad thing. If I’m correct, it has to do with the pulse of death (Thanatos) that relies on the psyche, that much sounds like an auto destructive instinct to me (correct me if I’m wrong because I don’t know much about psychoanalysis). Then, you said “We're less instinctual then we think and it's probably one of the only few things that set us apart from other animals, that and our empathetic nature that allows our range to go past just our own species and feel for creatures big and small” and then you gave the example of the child. Well, I don’t think that humans are empathetic by nature; your example of the kid feeling bad for hurting a small animal on accident it’s not true on all cases, where I’m from people of the countryside see animals as working machines, nothing more. They don’t care about them, they don’t feel empathy for them so if they hurt an animal they couldn’t careless, this also applies to the child because he learned from the people around him and he hasn’t the same values for animals as other people may have. So, he doesn’t feel bad about it (this could also be seen when people go hunting, lots of small kids don’t feel bad for killing animals for fun). This kid learns from what he sees and hears from his environment, then he may change his mind but at first you’re just mimicking what the adults around you do. It’s natural that you learn this, yes, but your parents teach you how to carry yourself and how to control your instincts, it’s not something that just goes away magically.

answer this question and you might figure out the rest... what do you, (as a person) consider good or bad? cause some people are taught the exact opposite of what you think

Neither. Realizing that "good" and "evil" are essentially the same thing, from different points of view. They're opinions that are subjective to the eye of the beholder.

Man is both. They are not born neutral, but instead are born with both selfishness and compassion residing in them. This is why people are so torn between good and evil, because no one is wholly good or wholly evil.

Man is both. They are not born neutral, but instead are born with both selfishness and compassion residing in them. This is why people are so torn between good and evil, because no one is wholly good or wholly evil.

bump

In my views man born innocent but with desire to do good but the more the do evil, the harder it is for them to find the desire to do good

i think a person is born good but its the enviroment around him that makes him evil and after he learns that evil will bring him nothing but more evil he will become good the best way to see heaven is at the bottom of hell

it depends on your believes and sets of mind.

>>76 I agree, Like if you beleave in god, then we are not innocent as baby. On the other hand, if you dont beleave in god then no one can really tell you what is right and wrong. Like you can say murder is bad, but unless you are a divine being you cant make universal truths.

>>66 archadmiral, haha, yeah, sorry about that. *rubs back of head sheepishly* It's a bit hard to tell how what your writing is going to turn out in the small white box at the bottom once you get past a paragraph or so. I'll work on my paragraph breaks and I'm pretty sure some of my grammar is wrong too. >.< Thank you for pointing that out. :) This is such an interesting topic. It's amazing the answers people give to this timeless question.

THIS IS THE TRUTH SIMPLE

Summary: Humans when life isnt threatened do what keeps us appealing in either the eyes of god, peers, parents, or ourselves, any justification otherwise is just an over-analysis. Because most of us no longer have to worry about predatory animals, Aesthetics has become our central underlying nature.

>>68 In regards to the suicide statment being an amazing thing, I meant amazing in a terrible way. I've known a very good friend of mine who tried to commit suicide and a family member that tried it as well (I actually have a personal bias against suicide and view it as a pathetic cop-out, but that's my opinion - Also, the person I know who tried (and thankfully failed) was beaten daily physically and emotionally by her parents, so when it comes to cases like that, suicide is more understandable, I don't condone it, but when things are that bad, I can understand why people try to take their own life.) Most beings on the planet can not conciously commit suicide as it totally goes against their instincts. Meaning, even if we are very instinct driven beings, we can by pass them even to the point of ignoring our own survival ones, which from what I've seen have been shown to be the most strong, for lack of a better word, of most of the instincts we have.

Ah, sorry I didn't make it clear, a bit hard to explain things online sometimes. What I meant was we are very instinctual creatures, as you said that never goes away at all, it's just toned down by the way we live and what we learn. That being said we aren't like cold blooded instinct driven animals who really are just instinct. (it's been shown they can learn too though, given that their environment gives them the chance.) Take an alligator for instance (or is it a crocidile? I always get them mixed up) a cold blooded purely instinctual reptile. About 3 things are on it's mind, survival, food and continuing it's species. However, one time a man saved an alligators life and the alligator genuinely became friends with it. This well known hard, seemingly even cruel killer that's instinct and pretty much nothing else still has a brain, and learned that someone saving your life means you owe them a favor. I'm sick of people going on and on about animals being savages when they can learn the same things we can on a basic front of gratitude, yet we try to claim humans are no better then those savages and will just steal from and kill those who help us. Not even animals are that bad, so what makes humans, the self declared superior beings so much worse then what we see in the creatures around us?

On empathy, that's true that some people couldn't care less about animals, but for some of us, when we see a dogs paw get slowly cut off and hear it howling and thrashing in pain, we feel sorry for it and often cringe. Most other creatures do not care, they can't because generally they eat the creatures that they cause to scream and thrash in pain and if they did care, they wouldn't survive. Humans do not have to eat everything we see, so we get the chance to have empathy for other creatures around us. As you said though, that's bypassed with hunting and the like if done for sport, but hunting really has it's base idea in hunting for food. Also, most people don't hunt say cat's and dogs, which are often our pets and family members instead. Most hunters as well are not exceedingly cruel to the animals they hunt. There are some sick ****'s who are, but most of the time, gun shots hit the animal in a place that will kill them relatively quickly. Someone does not take a chain saw and start to slash wildly at the creature for sport and I think in a hunting community that would be frowned up on for various reasons. So while humans don't always show empathy for animals, a rather large majority of us do.

I don't think it's so much parents teaching kids to control instincts, save for the impulses that will get the kid killed (running out into the street, climbing into a stove.) Most kids learn what becomes acceptable to act like through experience and they learn what impulses and whims are more harmful to them when they get hurt. I think it's less parents and more life that teaches kids that acting purely on instinct and impulse won't get you far and often hurts. As far as instincts go for humans though, they're set off in extreme situations. Say a person stealing food so they can eat because they don't have enough money to buy what they need. And I'm not talking region specific here, this happens everywhere. Instincts are useful, but only in dire situations for protecting ones own survival. Yet, our society tells us we have more then enough and more often then not we are actually "safe". Instincts are brought upon by a dire situation, say you're trapped in an alley way about to be mugged/raped/murdered you bet you're going to fight tooth and nail to save yourself or maybe someone you're with even if it means killing or horribly harming the assilant. That's fine, instincts should come in at that time, but they also tend to creep up in the small stuff too. I blame that on the paranoia we all live in. It's beaten into our heads that at any time everything can disappear/be taken away from us right under our noses and that is because of the system we live in, you CAN get everything taken away, often through little to no fault of your own. This is the reason I think so many people say we're so instinctual and that "human nature" which I would say are instincts are what make us into the people we are. If we actually lived in a society that does not threaten your survival, then it's a very, very different picture. Instincts are still there, but they're essentially there for emergencies where survival mode kicks in. Does that make sense? Because of this, murder, stealing and all the other evil things society deems "bad" are merely byproducts of how society functions. In other words the ones that blame something for happening are also the ones that caused it in the first place. I'm not condoning murder and the like, but they do not surprise me in the least for how depraved our own system that we uphold makes people ... and profits off of it at the same time.

TL;DR It's because of our underlying hostile and often cruel environments that we somehow become accustomed to that we're constantly acting on instinct more so then we should have to. Instincts are for survival, based on everything we have in the world, plenty of food, plenty of places for shelter, we shouldn't feel so paranoid as to act out on others around us for survival purposes (greed, stealing, murder, etc) If you drive a person into a wall at all times, even in subtle ways, you can bet their fight or flight response is definitely going to go on and many, many people have their backs against the wall all the time, they just often become accustomed to it and it becomes the norm. Then we hear the most grating and pathetic excuse I've ever heard "That's life" or "That's human nature" while not seeing the underlying cause for the severe problems happening around them.

Man is essentially Good, Based on Christianity, Man and Woman (Adam and Eve) did as God commanded, never going against his word. UNTIL The Snake, LUCIFER THE DEVIL, ensnared Eve and subsequently Adam into falling away from God. We fallow God naturally but are drawn away by Lucifer.

We are neither good or evil. >.>

>>81 But if we realize that and we don't do anything to stop it isn't it basically our fault? Shouldn't we already be past falling for the same thing so many times, or can just we not learn from other's mistakes?

>>83 Learning from our mistakes is what will make us stronger in the future, but if we don't then we become weaker and quickly fall into our own hell. It takes disciple of the mind to get stronger and that is what I believe people have trouble with, and is the reason for much of our suffering.

humans are evil, our intentions are savage, we have a habit of taking what we want from who we want, we are the most skilled killers because of our dangerous minds,

Humans are born equal...our minds are always the same...mallproduced to the ways of reality...it is at the point of which we begin to understand what people try to teach us...the things that drive us through our lives in the modern society...but if these people were however taught ways thay were socially incorrect this person can and probably will be convicted evil...
But this brings me to another case of which is a delicate matter as such... What if those socialistic morals of which our lives are built on are wrong what if the whole society is truly built upon evil...these must be considered and with this we cannot declare whether one is good or evil by the way they act... But for the reason that they act upon these things...
An example... One steals bread from a bakery: theft is a crime in modern society... People will classify this one as a theif and a sociopath in a way due to this "crime" this one may commit...but do the people stop and ask...why...why did they steal the loaf of bread...
To feed a poor starving family perhaps
And yes there are cases where one would just steal because they wish to have the sheer thrill and adrenaline pumping through them and the ones who do things for this reason are evil for these guilty pleasures lead nowhere and only wish to satisfy their own needs while one who is good is not "self centred" persay and will attempt in any way to not only help themselves but help others

So the case concludes that the two sides do exist but there is no way that all people can be on one side for it takes global brainwashing and mind control to do so and even then one might still against all odds fight against.

Quite an essay there /\o/\'

That depends ENTIRELY on your personal perspective. On the one hand, there've been such complete monsters as Hitler, Stalin, and Beiber. On the other hand, we've had Mother Theresa, Ghandi, and AC/DC to sort of balance them out.

As the Doctor himself has said, "every life is a pile of good things and bad things." And while there are indeed a lot of bad things - and some people become bad things entirely - one must not forget all the good things and good people. Yes, we have lots of criminals and there are morons in the government, but that's looking entirely on the bad side. Even in this world, there are still heroes. Yes, of course the firemen, non-corrupt cops, paramedics, etc., but even just normal, everyday people.

As many posters before me have said, there is a lot of moral ambiguity in human society. Code Geass is an excellent example of this, particularly regarding Lelouch and Suzaku. Is Suzaku evil for willingly serving The Britannian Empire, despite his desires to change it from the inside? Is Lelouch a hero in his crusade against the Britannians, even though he's a pretty blatant terrorist? Heck, let's take the ending of the series into account. Lelouch becomes the most evil man to have ever lived... and then intentionally gets himself assassinated to create world peace. So is he a villain for the things he did as Emperor, or is he a hero for bringing about an era of peace and love by letting himself get killed? Either stance depends entirely on the viewer's opinion.

For a less ambiguous point, go watch a movie called Pay It Forward.

My personal belief is that regardless of good or evil, Humans Are AWESOME. I mean, just look at all the crazy stuff our ancestors did! They built massive freaking pyramids with just a bunch of rocks and some stone tools! Heck, look at pretty much ANY important piece of ancient Greek or Roman - ESPECIALLY Roman - architecture. Can you believe they managed THAT kind of precision and awesomeness without the kind of tools we have today? And do you honestly think that the human race is anywhere NEAR finished? Just you wait, one day humanity will make monuments and stuff that will make our descendents go "Holy crap how did they manage to do THAT!?"

>>88 HOOYAH!

man is not essential good or evil, we are born in this world not knowing either of them, and growing up in whichever household and surrounded by the people u know, u develop a sense of good and bad and u decide whichever u think is the right one. so even the most wanted criminals out there are evil they just grew up in surroundings that they believed were either good and bad and follow what they believe. so in answer humans are not either good or bad, they just follow what they have seen in the world.

THIS IS THE TRUTH SIMPLE

Summary: Humans when life isnt threatened do what keeps us appealing in either the eyes of god, peers, parents, or ourselves, any justification otherwise is just an over-analysis. Because most of us no longer have to worry about predatory animals, Aesthetics has become our central underlying nature.

Already posted this but my argument is aesthetics, how we want things to be look or be perceived as that make us do things. Would like to see if there is a good counter to that cuz otherwise i see no fault in seeing otherwise.

Any human being is essentially good unless they desire to be otherwise. Now, before the wrath of the world comes to disprove my naive ideals, review the question.
"Is man essentially good or evil?"

I don't like this question, simply for the reason that it's far too vague. "Good" and "Evil" are relative terms. For example, to most sensible Americans, Islamic extremists are evil incarnate, but do the extremists regards THEMSELVES as evil? On the contrary, they believe that they are among the few people that are good.

The truth is simple. Your answer is the truth is and never will be simple. No matter what you do, your perceptions of "good" and "evil" will never pair up perfectly with the person next to you. All a person can do is try to understand their own good and evil and look at them with the eyes of everyone else in the world.

Good and evil is as relative as beauty and taste, there are general ideas to each that can be interpreted a number of ways.. you >>92 only countered one part truth is simple, yes you technically are right, but i should have said "truthfully one can simplify actions and their reasons to the following:..."

My post wasnt really to imply that it was simple but to give a simple answer, one that i wanted to see counters for and that was that: Humans when life isnt threatened do what keeps us appealing in either the eyes of god, peers, parents, or ourselves, any justification otherwise is just an over-analysis. Because most of us no longer have to worry about predatory animals, Aesthetics has become our central underlying nature.

who is to determine what is good and evil? we are creatures of habbit we cannot escape that fact. live. thats all you can do... unless your an emo fag and want to kill yourself. If case your a sad sack of shit and you'll only be causing pain and misery to those who care about you....

well the answer is none of the above. no man is good nor evil. well, man do sins yet the sins depends upon one's intentions. even though there are what we call good and evil people, all of us are fair and square.

>>81
Ash, there is a Biblical story that talks about disobeying God. I don't remember the specific names, like I ever do, but it was about God telling a man to kill his child. The man ended up killing his whole family, brought the kid up to a mountain, and right when he was about to kill it, God got mad and said that he should have known and said to him that it was wrong. So he was depressed he killed his family. I'm not sure where it came from (Old Testament maybe?) and if that's a good version of the story, but I think it's an alright summary, from a non-Christian who studied the Bible randomly.

>>80
Aluysion, look at both sides of your story. Things happen for a reason; society is not evil. (You may have covered this in your long post but I am saying this based off of your summary because I did not read it all.)

While a person being opt to grow up and live in a society where they are conditioned to hate and fear, while they may do things such as murder and steal, it is also this same hate and fear that keeps people working. Although there are people who live and work at their job because they love it, 99% of the people are controlled by money. This means that their motivation to work is controlled by their fear of being poor. If it wasn't for harsh conditions, people would not work. And although it would be best if people were not motivated in that particular way, the 99% proves that it can't be otherwise. People back then worked harder, and faster, and more productive because there was a demand on their life. Since we do not have that kind of demand anymore, society took the liberty of creating a new one, to keep humans moving, to keep us alive. While bad things may come from it, it's important to realize that bad is everywhere.
(that Cat Stevens song?)

>>97 I have to say I completely disagree. While I do understand that side of the argument and have heard it before, I personally see that as just an excuse to let the bad things happen. I know things aren't perfect, perfection does not exist and neither can a utopia. Money does NOT motivate people, inspiration and self gain do. If I create a beautiful piece of art work or harvest lots of food, it's because I gain from those actions and if I want to share it with others, that's also a gain for me because it inspires people to do the same. No, not everyone, but a rather large majority of people would want to do the same in turn as they have been given. Money does the opposite of inspiration, this has been proven in economics. The only thing money inspires people to do is meaningless, tedious jobs such as pressing the same sequence of buttons. All projects that require thought, imagination and thinking outside the box do NOT inspire people on a monetary basis.

Also, no, people did not work faster or be more productive. What's made the human race get so far ahead as we have is technology, which it's growth is HINDERED by the monetary motivation and mindset. Your computer could last far, far past your lifetime if it were built to, but it's not. Know why? That's right, money, cuz the company couldn't afford to use the best products to create the computer, which in turn forces you to work, make more money to buy another one to keep our economy alive, while at the same time making everything you computer was mostly thrown as waste flling up our landfills. Money causes people to feel depressed, stressed. work at jobs that do NOTHING for fellow humans. A walmart greeter, cashier, any service industry job which makes up like 80% of the work force, are USELESS jobs in what they are, not to mention robots could do the job more efficiently then humans. However, if we didn't have money, there would be no need for the useless jobs at all.

Nearly everything we do is technical, meaning a machine can do it better, faster and more efficiently then we can. But, people are afraid of machines. Why? Because they'll destroy our economy in something called technological unemployment. Which is happening already. Technology is there to help us, it's the ONLY thing that's even gotten the human race this far, and yet people for some reason say they hate it, when they don't realize EVERYTHING around you is technology. Everything in your home was either completely or in part put together by a machine, to cook food and create things we use either machines directly or the tools we use were made by machines. I'm not saying people should become robots or something, I'm saying let technology do the menial, tedious, repetitive tasks they're built for and let humans start to actually learn for once.

No, humans will not just laze about while machines do "all the work" humans will still be working on making advancements in science, medicine, art, mathematics etc with OUT the hindrance of needing to go work at some crap job and the false incentive of demeaning profit. Life is priceless, so why does everything have to cost numbers?

Also, yes, I know that if we did this like we should of when we hit the industrial age that everything sounds that it would be perfect. LOL, it will not. We never would of gotten to this messed up stage if we weren't fundementally a flawed race, which we are, but currently we make things A LOT worse then they should be because people honestly believe that "that's the way it is." Seriously? Sorry to get on a soap box, but go tell that to someone starving or dying of a preventable disease before you honestly believe that horrid lie. No, things will never be perfect, humans will still murder each other for stupid reasons. Not because we're "evil" but because humans hardly even understand themselves. There is a LOT we don't know, we know very little about how our brains work and we don't even fully know why our bodies function the way we do. And because we all have to work everyday making the all mighty dollar just so we can eat, sleep, make children, shop and die, which is an unproductive and unsatisfying life to say the least, we can't work on this stuff as fast as we should be able to.

TL;DR Money, the way our system works and the ultimately defeatist mindset it puts people in is a hindrance both to our survival and ability to thrive. It's not an incentive, it's a weeding out process under the false presumption that some people are actually better or more worth living then others. I'm no more deserving or undeserving of life then anyone else on the planet, no matter who they are or what they've done. For some ****ed up reason our system teaches us otherwise and we need to stop it before it destroys us, body and spirit or whatever existential metaphor one would like to use. Also, we'd find out what good and evil really are and see what kind of race we really are if we weren't affected by self caused destructive factors. If people still kill on the wide mass scales as we do now even with out the motivation for monetary/greed/revenge reasons that this system causes from various factors, basically adding insult to injuries, then I'd say that we are a pretty "evil" race by that standard. But it's already been proven that if a person is not forced to have their back against the wall, either literally or metaphorically, physically/mentally they're far, far, far less likely to even be violent, let alone hurt or murder someone.

>>81 I actually really like that explanation. Born to follow God (good) but drawn away by Lucifer (evil) Meaning we fall to temptation, which is sin. That's an interesting way to put it. However, the bible sort of contradicts this saying "all men are sinners" also could be seen as "all men are created equal". Does this mean all men are evil? Or does it mean that we all just fall into temptation once in a while? I personally would view it as the latter, yet many Christian people tend to think it's the former, yet exempt themselves from that rule. If all men are evil, that means every church goer and self proclaimed Christian is a hypocrite for stating there are "bad" people unless they acknowledge that they themselves and everyone else around them are one of them.

Forgive me if I'm redundant, I haven't exactly kept up with this thread. I skimmed over some important points though, and here's my take on all of it.

Man is evil. Society is not.

Individually, humans are spiteful, envious, greedy, proud, and violent. They will do what they can to gain dominance, superiority, and leverage over their peers, be it a financial, social, or moral high ground. Every action taken by a person can be reduced to a struggle for a shift in the balance of relative power they hold over everyone adjacent to them.

However, what society does is balance this and make use of their minimal, but latent, altruism. People act kind and constructive with one another because it circles around to benefit the society that they live in, and thus themselves. It's either this, or the act of charity gives them a moral/emotional boost at the minor cost of a slight and negligible financial or temporal setback.

This is the general cynical outlook on society and human nature, which assumes that humans are naturally "evil" by definition, and providing an excuse for when they act good. There are several stories out there that attempt to analyze how humans behave in an uncontrolled environment, and they've been mentioned earlier in the thread. Things like Lord of the Flies, or The Mist - when people are isolated from normal society or put in a condition where they must fend for themselves, with their lives at stake. If any of you are interested in this sort of concept, I highly recommend reading those or watching their movie adaptations.

You have the wrong attitude when you say that money "forces" you to work, as if it makes people unhappy, and although it may seem so, it doesn't have to be the case. You don't work for money; you should be working for yourself. A person who lets money control them is a person who also lets money control their job, future, and status. For people who control their job, future, and status, however, will also be in control of money, and what's more: happiness. Unhappy people only exist because they aren't in control of their life.

>>99
Of course, the best motivation is from within, but you have to understand that because of how advanced society is, most motivation these days certainly is external. Which is why everybody, to have the highest level of productivity, must blossom from within. In my first post in this thread, I talk about internal motivation, or what you call the "survival instinct." Of course, internal motivation at its most simplest form is just that: survival, but until people really learn to blossom and direct that motivation, that's all you're going to be: a person who just "survives."

Now, try to interpret that. If a person's simplest instinct is to "survive" (we will say that it is natural, although you may say not, because it did become conditioned through years and years evolution where we actually needed it, and until taught otherwise, what we are), and that now we don't need it anymore, how will that person ever be motivated? Of course, blossoming your internal motivation varies among many people, and sometimes may take a lifetime. There is no precise way of controlling how people become great--they just do, whether it was after a tragedy or just a realization. So instead of just letting nations go into a recession, you have to introduce a new form of external motivation that imitates the ways of "survival"--money.

If you can understand me, my message was that I am against external motivation because as it goes away, so does the motivation that came with it. I don't believe that money inspires people, nor did I ever say so (I'm pretty careful with my words), because however that "inspiration" may be, it is a transient inspiration with no big goal. A truly successful person would not worry about that at all, actually, and in accomplishing goals, money and wealth issues and any other amateur-problem that most people boggle themselves down with would just disappear. They would receive wealth, not because they wanted it, but money just happened to be a way of measuring success in our society.

Money is not evil, nor is society. It was not meant to cause any pain, suffering, murder, or corruptness in personality. It just happened to be the fact that some people are too weak to live in a society where money exists, so then they allow it to control them, thus driving them to commit to these bad things. Remember that although you may begin with doing bad, depending on where you go in life (after your childish years), you may end up doing good, or just stay the same. A true successful person would not have to steal, kill, or hit anybody if they realize their actual self. A true successful person knows that they cannot cheat to get what they want quicker, because they didn't deserve it or put any honest effort into getting it. A "bad" person is one who is tempted into laziness, and while you may say that it is society who drove them that way, it is also society that rejects that notion and wants work.

And although I am not a devout follower of Transcendentalism (how ironic), the principles of that certain movement still stand. People can only be motivated to do anything from within. When you control that motivation, you will become great and "good," but it's when the pressures of society/religion begin to influence this motivation, is when you have the highest possibility of losing yourself.

And although I agree that if you strip away all of the proclaimed "bad," and then settle to some sort of neutral agreement, yes, we can then begin to assume what is actually "good" and what is actually "bad." It would be the ideal experiment. But think about it now: the conditions for the experiment now. They're all the same. When put under pressure (because society, in a sense, does pressure "death" if you aren't living up to it), a person then only results to doing those bad things. I suppose if you had a different reactant in the equation, you could then test a different outcome, and yes, we won't know until we try, but still, I feel as if you are still one step behind. If we do as you say, and get rid of everything, you will only then have what I have said before: people who are just "surviving." You can't deny that people have needs, and if you use today's society, money and food are on par with each other, meaning that if you replaced the word "money" in every sentence I've said with "food", it would still make sense, because the demand is equal, though one may be natural and the other may be artificial. Even if we stripped away any kind of influence society had on us, there are still natural things we cannot deny, and what's more, although I know I've said there is an abundance of resources, you cannot deny that in time, scarcity will just make its way into our lives.

http://www.mentaltoughnesssecrets.com/
Read number 2 and 4. 70% of people are of Middle Class thinking and 5% is of World Class. Understand. Brilliant people, who change the world, evolve from that natural state of "surviving" and direct it into an actual goal. In your world, society, because of its demands, create challenges, that are actually pretty difficult. It's only by these challenges can you induce this brilliance to bloom quicker, for some of the people. As for the others, who are weak, poor ("dying" on the standard), unhappy, complaining, and murderers, who want to live easy, they will never until they have challenges. In your world, there are no challenges, no drive, and little chances of a person ever coming up with anything amazing or life changing. Flawed, is what your plan is, because it rejects basic human principles. Reductio ad absurdum.

Also, it's not "that's the way it is," because if you are implying I've said that, I have not. I am saying that it just happened to be that way; that it was something like money that was created. I'm trying to let you think more widely. That if you hate how money functions, in another sense, you may hate how food or water functions, because in the end, don't you have to work for that also?

You have the wrong mindset, actually. Work is not always tedious, boring, and non-productive. Without the principle of work, we would be lazy, which is the most non-productive state of all; nothingness. Laziness, stagnation, any word you may use--that is the equivalent of death.

Sorry that I didn't notice the verbiage. And also the seeminly "spam" (I had put the wrong words, etc.)

Here are 2 quotes I agree:
1. "The world is a dangerous place, not because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing." -Albert Einstein
2. "You are good. You just forgot that you are." -Santino

So in my opinion, evil is the absence of goodness. It's ignorance that makes us evil. It's going against our own selves that makes us evil. It's succumbing to our own selfishness that makes us evil as well. [Another quote: Your greatest enemy is yourself.]

So, basically, we are good. We just forgot that we really are. We can do many good things. But it's ignorance that we choose not to fight that makes us evil.

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>>106
Yes, your greatest enemy is yourself. Your subconscious mind, because of how it was programmed, will always tell you that you want to rest, or sit down, or go to bed, and be lazy, but it's just exactly that in which you have to fight off. The people around you are always saying they are tired and stressed, and some people spend their whole day sitting and watching television, that requires no high level of brain power of focus at all.

When you stop and do nothing, you are killing yourself. You have to fight temptations to be lazy, and do what you know you must.

>>108 83 Yupina, somehow you made my day happy! :3 Thanks.

first off i think yupina copied that,

but man (and woman don,t want to make any enemies here) is neither bad or good as a whole we are neutral beings.

we are neutral beings who struggle for acceptance, whether it be in personal acceptance,parental, spiritual acceptance (god accepting us), or peer acceptance

of course you really cant say that its just that in itself but subconciously we dont do things that would have us look bad in front of others.. how many people will run naked through church mosques or synaguge (respectively pertaining to their religion)even if they covered their face and had a getaway vehicle.. Its just something some wont do

I know my actions are forced as well I WILL NEVER CHEAT ON A WOMAN yes there is a chance i may, but i can never accept myself as a cheater, Its such a strong feeling in alot of people that it halts other innate instincts

There is no good or evil, only light and dark, selfish and selfless, nice and mean, they both exist to counter each other, and without one, there is no other, for they not only counter, they also compliment each other. Without Evil, there would be nothing to measure Good, it would just be neutral, and vice versa.

Everyone's different.

Here's the thing. In the beginning man was made as a "good" being, it was not until he was swayed in the garden of eden by Lucifer in snake form to eat the forbidden fruit that he became "evil" After that point man began to give into his temptations and his fears. All that is doing is condemning him to an eternity in hell. Says Christian theology.

>>114 Come on man dont go religous. Here is how i see it: there is no good or bad. Divisions are illusions, good and bad, sad and happy, boring and exciting. The perspective of one person is often different from anothers. So in reality we know nothing for what it really is.

I was going to type up a whole big wall of text but was too lazy so here: In my opinion, there is no definite answer, it really depends on what the definition of the word "evil" and the perspective of the person is. It's like asking if abortion is ok. Some would say its bad because they would be killing a child. Some would say it is ok because it is the woman's body so it is their choice.

>>116 your spaces.....they are ASTOUNDING! 8D -clapclapclap-

UUgf

JJg

>>115 Just stating what the bible defines it as but I'm not religious at all dude

I feel like good and evil are too abstract of concepts to define humans. When you want to define what something is you should strive to define only what is definitely there. For example, in the case of humans, rather then define them in abstract concepts like good and evil, what selfish and selfless? But then I suppose that blurs the line even more. It's just flat out difficult to define things in black and white. It is however my belief that humans merely being living beings, and being somewhat empathetic begins, are in my mind a 'positive' force, albeit selfish.

Perhaps my responses will become more confident and coherent if I progress in conversation.

>>121
Hm, I see where you are getting that. And I understand. But when you try to collapse "good" and "evil" down to "selfish" and "selfless," how do you know which one is good and which one is evil? As everyone is saying, "good" and "evil" are pretty subjective; it's based on how you define it.

And I find your post a little contradicting; how about explaining more? You say that things should not be as solid as black and white, but to have variety. To me, when you try to reduce "good" and "evil" into something like "selfish" and "selfless," that's like trying to make it more specific. Am I making sense?

But in the end, without saying anything boring, verbose, or idiotic, I'd have to agree that people are actually good. But I think to really decode and clear up the lines between "good" and "evil," one must decide:

What makes evil the opposite of good? Or vise-versa.

(Don't worry, I'm not berating you--just initiating conversation. :])

>>122
Naturally I'm going to assume selfless falls more with good and selfish falls more with evil.

It's true that good and evil seem relatively subjective, but outside of labels we can assume concepts like good and evil exist as traits.

Evil acts are committed with the self in mind. Perhaps in hopes of some form of positive net gain for the self.

Good acts are committed with the other in mind in hope of positive net gain for the other.

Aside from the black and white description I decided to give, it's the gray that blurs the boundaries. Beyond what a being is, whether or not it is good or evil, the situation must be taken into account to analyze whether or not the being can be considered good or evil.

In times of peace, it is easy to be good, and in times of war it is easy to be evil. However odd the thought, perhaps it is not the being's choice as to whether or not it is good or evil.

(The wording feels somewhat arrogant, perhaps even biased, but I tried to phrase everything as neatly as possible.
I had a few thoughts on the something along the lines of metaconversation, but I decided they didn't attribute much valuable information.)

:X

There is one thing...there is no such thing as good and bad people...it's all in our heads try to make friends with the next "bad" person you meet...unless he has a knife on him...but try to convince that person that killing is wrong and ask him why he does it

>>124 Although most people fall into the 'gray', there are still people who differ enough from the average person they could be considered good or evil. I don't quite understand how mere perception removes classification.

I personally think that man choose who they wish to be; someone evil or someone good.
When they are first born, they are neutral, or on no side.
But as they grow up, their chooses pick who they become.
This chooses being, everyday decisions.
Example: I'm going to bully this kid and make him cry because he is just too weird=Evil.
I'm going to save that kid from being bullied, just because that is the right thing to do-Good.
Our chooses in life create who we become. In the end, you are your chooses and your chooses are you.

>>126 What about those born without emotion? Or those born with an innate malevolent desire? If you grow up in a bad place, chances are you'll adapt to that bad place. If evil things are done to survive, you too must do evil things to survive. If not, obviously you wouldn't survive.

If there isn't a need to be evil, beings wouldn't be evil. If beings weren't wired to be evil, they won't be evil.

I don't believe beings have a choice in whether or not they are good or evil, the situation has control over that. Part of the situation being the being's genetic wiring, as well as the many X factors in the situation.

If learn how to flip a coin a certain way, it's random factors will vanish. Just because something seems unpredictable or chaotic doesn't mean it is.

>>105 Money is "evil" in the sense that it weeds people out on purpose when there is more then enough. You are right though in saying that it isn't the intent, not originally anyway and it would make sense to have money should there actually be a widespread need of something that is scarce and can not be substituted. Given that this is not the case and humans are if anything pretty damn resourceful when we try to be, money is "evil" in todays day and age. The idea that someone is starving right now, just because they couldn't get money to buy the said thing when there is MORE then enough of said thing is completely preposterous and cruel.

I know many people come up with "Well, just get a job, then you'll have money." Sure, that would work, IF there were actually enough jobs, and I'm not even talking about decent paying jobs, which everyone aspires to have. No, I mean there physically aren't enough jobs and that's also to weed people out. I hate the usual middle class mindset that thinks people are poor because they WANT to be. That's the most ignorant and arrogant thing I've ever heard. People who think like that are actually so ignorant as to believe that not everything is someones fault and arrogant enough to believe they deserve the lifestyle they have because they think they were willing to work for it. Our economy wouldn't even function if everyone HAD a job. See what I meant? If everyone actually has enough money to live comfortably, then our economy falls apart. Like I said, you can't have rich with out the poor, someone, or rather millions of someones get the short end of the stick and it's not their fault.

I never said work was unfulfilling and I never said people shouldn't work. I'm saying the jobs we have now, such as selling crap people don't need, greeting people and trying to get them to buy things when they enter a store, basically every job in the service industry which just has to do with the cyclical consumption our economy demands are useless, tedious and ultimately jobs that do nothing for society or helping us as a species in any way. I don't even consider those jobs work as they require no thinking and just a bit of half truth telling skills. Work is something to be admired. Also work can be differently defined. Is say a chef working? He/she's doing something they love and serving it to others as well. That's work to me, something fulfilling to either yourself or yourself and others. Work is rewarding, I'm not bashing work at all and I think the work itself is it's own reward. But work is not worth anything if it depresses the person and reaps no benefit at all for anyone involved.

On the internal vs external motivation. Money is ONLY a motivator because it allows you to survive and buy things you need/want. Money itself is useless in it's own existence. You can't technically do anything with money. It's not a substance that's needed at all, the things humans put price tags on are what we're after. The ability to oh, I don't know, live should not have a price tag. Necessities should never cost anything. To me, this would include education, food, water, shelter and clothes. In other words, a chance to actually make it in the world. So money isn't the motivator, the things we need are, and if we could aquire them ourselves no one would ever work for money, but the way the system is set up, it's nearly impossible to do it all yourself. Even if you want to grow your own food, you have to have a job to make money to pay for the land, the tools to take care and grow the food, the seeds, the water etc. You can't do things on your own unless you have the money to pay for it because everything has a price tag.

That's just sad that people don't have an internal motivation. Work if actually productive is it's own reward. From sowing food, to creating art work, it all has it's own worth to it for the person working on it and all those that reap the benefits. Also, we have machines to help us with the really hard work so that everyone does have a chance to get enough. I know a lot of people who have internal motivation up to the hilt, but are deterred from doing what they dream because they're financially impaired. This system depresses people, causes them to feel somehow worthless if they can't make money and ultimately many of them are driven to suicide and murder because they can't take it. To put it another way, I'll quote "It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society" To be completely frank in going with that statement, it's rather frightening that people can just go on with their daily lives and not care about what's really going on. I view a lot of "evil" behavior as just a reaction to how sick our society and ultimately mindsets really are.

Also, no, I totally deny that scarcity would still creep into our lives. Not in a technical sense anyway, and we as humans would find ways around that. Also, I don't think we know what "scarcity" really is either. We're all too pathetic in our comfy conditioned lives.

Every argument you had to me past this point had to do with your presumption that I hate work and think everyone should just be able to do nothing, which I never meant to say and I'm sorry if my wording allowed you to come to that conclusion.

>>105 Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm getting that your saying brilliance is born our of extreme hard ship and only a few select people get it? ... That's assuming also that some people are born smart. First, smart is an arbitrary concept and more complicated then black and white. IQ is a horrible measure because it only gives one kind of "smart". Also, our ideas of "smart" usually have to do with mathematics or survival. If someone runs off a cliff thinking they can fly, they're stupid from an evolutionary/survival standpoint. Does that mean the person was actually stupid? Depends on why they thought they could fly. If they simply didn't understand the physics behind flight and what they lack to do it. That makes them ignorant and ignorance isn't a crime anymore then me saying you not understanding how to build a rocket and fly it into space is. You simply don't know and it's cruel of people to view just plain not knowing because they were never taught or never put in circumstances that caused them to figure something out as stupidity. On that note as well, nearly all "geniuses" were given the chance to further their knowledge and the tools they needed in life to think the way they do. There are many brilliant people on the planet, most are never given a chance to even show it or use it in anyway or to become brilliant.

Does everyone honestly think that if everyone was given a similar education and each person was actually treated like a person who may have a different learning style or aptitude for some certain subject and that was taken care of accordingly, that some how there would still only be a few "brilliant" people? This goes back yet again to somehow thinking some humans are better then others. Really, anyone with the training, knowledge and experience could of figured out what these "geniuses" did. It's like asking someone to put the pieces of the puzzle together with out all the pieces even available to them, where as the "geniuses" have all the pieces they need. I'm not bashing "geniuses" I'm just pointing out that they are way, way more common then we think and that really anyone has the ability to become one, though granted it would probably be in a field or area of expertise that applies to that persons interest. There aren't stupid people, only people who aren't given the knowledge they needed and were left to give up or just stop caring. I know a ton of brilliant kids who were in my school who didn't care about school because they knew they could never get into college or do anything with their intelligence because of the limitations they're given. And don't say "well, they should get past those limitations and make something of themselves!" ... wow, I can't believe how often I hear there cruel statement. I know this state of mind comes from the fact that some people do in fact come over huge leaps and bounds. This does not mean everyone goes through the same circumstances and thought process to come to those conclusions and I HATE that society seems to favor people that go through horrible circumstances and then praise them for getting out of it while ignoring everyone else who is still suffering. That's as absurd as praising the person who escaped the sinking boat while tons of others drowned or are drowning and somehow thinking that everyone will save themselves just because one person was able to do so. Here's why, they had a boat (boat being a metaphor for some person, thing or experience that allowed them to move past the obstacle) not everyone has a boat.

One last thing, as I'm sure I've gone on long enough, I also apologize in advance for any spelling/grammatical errors or assumptions I may of made that possibly are incorrect as to what you meant in your previous post, I'd like to say that on the line of you saying stagnation = death, you couldn't be more right. Stagnation however is also what our society/system are doing. It's all the same, we are born, grow up, go to school, get jobs, get money shop and then eventually die... only to repeat the exact same process with our own children... If that isn't stagnation I don't know what is. And what's worse is not everyone even gets this chance to have this boring unproductive life, and I mean unproductive on a personal standpoint. When's the last time you actually saw someone who was actually satisfied with their life at the time of death? Nope, some people just starve, or die early with out even being able to go through the be born, shop then die process.

>>129 I won't lie, I haven't read through everything with clarity, but about stagnation, I don't believe this is what is happening. As long as there is any improvement at all in comparison there is change, and therefore not stagnation. Boring and tedious jobs are there to provide income for those above hoping to create new or better things. The world doesn't stand still, and in all it's hustle and bustle things are improving, however slowly, they're changing. If something isn't for the best it will serve a greater purpose in the future likely through memory or adaptation.

In the case where many people die, the survivors are praised because dead men tell no tales.

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Fhdj

You don't see toddlers and babies plotting their playmates or families demises, but you can see them argue about little things or push each other. Hm. I think the world sets us all, depending on how we are raised and who we are around. And personality, too. But really in the end other people do every one of us harm. If you were alone on the planet, you would have no friends, but no knowing that other humans existed in the first place. You would have no motives other then surviving for yourself. Sure, maybe you can find an snimal to be a companion or pet, but in the end it's humans that hurt each other or cause evil. I have gotten off on an entirely different topic now, but yeah. That question is a real head scratcher.

First who are we to say whats evil???? What if all the people doing bad are actually living right??

>>134 Stewie Griffon, but that's a cartoon.

In my opinion, people start out inherently bad. Humanity is a violent and agressive race by its own nature. After all, all the magor disputes in history have been solved with bloodshed. Every person has the potential to ruin things for everyone else. If you don't beleive me, look back at the reasons for making all those machines we take for granted. They were originaly desighned for war. Engines were sed in tanks, fireworks were used to burn mongoliens to death in early china, even the humble microwave can be used to make things rupture and burst into blood. The greatest threat to humanity is ourselves, and our insatiable lust for war

Um... forgot to add this. People can become less bad as time goes on depending on their level of self control and rolemodels.

I believe is what he chooses to be. The outcome of his actions are his own, and he becomes who he truly wants to be.

Well, it depends on what you mean by good.You seem to be suggesting that what society tells us, i.e. the morals our society creates, are inherently good. However,it is morally correct to bravely fight in the above mentioned wars, and clearly that's not good, just idiotic. It seems to me like there really is no good or bad inherently. A human starts out being neutral and they are later judged as good or bad based on how much they conform to the expectations of society.

i think that at birth, as a child you really have no morals or consequences or what have you. but when you get older, you do have a choice and you know whats right from wrong. even if your parents don't teach you anything, your wants to please you; you should know that your wants are not that important and that you should be happy with the things that you do have and not dwell on the things you don't have.

june 2

i think that people have the potential to be good or bad. but whatever you are, you still have the opposite in your heart. but that's just me.

from my point of view, all men are born innocent. however, as men grow up, they are affected by everyone and everything around them. i think it just depends on the way we individually think, but i don't really understand the true meanings of "good" and "evil" so i don't have a clear answer to your question. in fact, the question itself is unclear, but i'm going to say neither. i mean man kill other animals and waste the earth's resources, but that is because we want to help other people to live happily and to our fullest.

>>130 I know I wrote a lot, I have an unfortunate tendency to do that. I see your point in technicality that nothing is stagnant. Yes, that's technically true. I more of meant the mind set of the people is what's stagnant and the fact that we try to keep things "always the same" is what's harming us. Of course humans don't actually succeed as there is no status quo at all and the fact that we think there is already makes us laughable and sad.

I wish dead men could tell tales, seeing as we could of learned from their mistakes instead of making the exact same ones over and over. History repeats itself because people don't learn that the survivors only exist because others had to die. Instead being alive is like a prideful thing and I personally find that sick. We're all just crawling on the ground after all. Nothing is more or less important then anything else in the universe and it's foolish of any species to think otherwise. I matter just as much as a blade of grass in the grand scheme/chaos of things. Surviving isn't what's important, just living during what fleeting life you have is.

Gonna derail this for a bit, just for a quick comment.

>>145 I've seen longer. From Misuto.

Yeah, just wanted to write that, don't wanna add more to the conversation, sorry!

whai so many philosophical questions? :o

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OPINION STATED ONLY.

I think, though abstinence might be a sin worthy to get to hell, that humans are all given birth capable to do both.

The only real difference between right and wrong is the side that wins the war for belief. If god lost and satan was master, would he then tell us what we believe to be evil is good? Would he then have us call him like we do god? So then, what makes god good? The fact he won.

Well,i agree with the fact that we are born innocent,but once your old enough to understand how thingsgo its up to you.But you see,some of us have a bad influence from the start,so we have nothing to contrast it to,therefore naturally adapting and following the bad actions

I think that people are still a little selfish. They want to have all the love of the world , this ends up injuring the other. They did not think with consistency .. They are not bad or good .. They are only human, which some perceive have feelings and others are not..

Bump 'cuz I like this thread.

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People are never evil, so long as they believe that their cause is just.

omg... how should I explain this. Think about killing someone. Many people would say that it is evil, for the person imposes the actions, but in the end, what counts is the person who actually did the action; their intentions to kill that person. Did that certain someone did something to you in the past, such as killing your parents, or was it some sort of petty excuse to kill the one that caused wounds in the past? Or did that person consent you to kill the person because they wanted you to do so, or for honor, or what not.

The same goes for deciding what one would want to do. For an example, my parents believe that I am taking a turn to the wrong path, which is going into Martial Arts because it is a fighting style; one that causes more wounds rather than heal others, but I do not give a damn about their opinion, for I am going into it for the right reasons: To someday give a gift to others that may help them in the future that is not necessarily needed in life until their initial life is at stake.

In all nature, Man is essentially good... until they start believing that their cause is injust.

If you want to take it to Biblical terms. we ar born sinners and of evil but if you follow God and obey the Bible then you become good.

But i guess it's all Perceptions.

If you want to take it to Biblical terms. we ar born sinners and of evil but if you follow God and obey the Bible then you become good.

But i guess it's all Perceptions.

I'd like to say good but i'm not completely sure. Man is neutral until it acts much like the dollars.

good and evil is based on perception it could apear either way given many differnt views. essentialy were neither, were animals we strive to create more of us and live. good and evil is just somthing people created to control the masses over thousands of years.

The question or good and evil is only based on the views of human morals. How can we tell wat is really good and wats really bad? It all depends on socity and which on you are around....to me....that question has no real answer....it all depends on wa you consider to b good and wats bad....

nether and both....

as said by many psychologists the potential for someone to commit murder is all ways present no matter who you are.

men kill there wives for cheating and vice versa
children kill siblings when they are "upset" or "feel wronged"
when you ask the question of "good or bad" i say its a 50/50 thing

dont quote me but i think it was the Ming dynasty whose emperor said that "all men are inherently evil"

listen to your hart because you know instinctively when you do something bad and likewise when you do something good.

my answer might not be the best one but at least i tried

It's true that we learn from what other people teach us. Children are VERY vulnerable and easy to influence. If we grow up to be evil, it is because we learned from an evil person.

I believe that man is naturally evil. As humans our main goal and objective in life is to live for ourselves. We try to help others because we are taught that its good and nice to do. There are those dont even try to hide it and just do what they want and then there are those who are "good". They try to hide their true selves by trying to be good to others to make up for the bad things they've done if any. In this world we're all born alone and all people that arent us are just objects we use to bend to our will to get what we want. We do it every day and dont know it

I stay optimistic ^^ As I'm sure it was said in one of the 167 comments that this has always been the old fight of Nature Vs. Nurture. Here is another question to ponder; if man is naturally evil, then what of good men? Do they strive and build their way up to become good then?

And riddle me this, Batman! If men are naturally evil then how on earth did the concept of trying to appear good even come about? If we're all evil from the start it would be a complete waste of time for our ancestors to even think up morals and ethics.

Well it depends.Maybe my bads are your goods or your bads are my goods.Regardless I think that if a person ends up bad and he also thinks that he is doing the right and good think its hard or maybe imposible to change him.For example the people that taught him some things maybe be dead or cant be found so it isnt up to us to decide if he is bad or good.

Good and evil are points of view, because in everyone's eyes, no matter what they do, they are doing the right thing.

"Is man essentially good or evil?"

This was the question for my journal response about a week ago.

Good & Evil are just words.You may think someone's good but someone else might think that person's Evil.It's what 2 diffrent people think,but nither one is right nor wrong.

Ofcourse the subject of good and evil has always been marked by the question of perspective. The whole "maybe my good is your evil" schtik. However I think that's more a societal thing than a true subject of Nature vs. Nurture. I certainly can't say that it's evil for tribes in the wilderness to have ritual cannibalism of their dead. Could just be their way of mourning, even if it stands completely against my predominantly Judeo-Christian upbringing ((I'd rather not bring religion into this if it can be helped however)). But what of the teenagers and young adults or even elderly gents who, having grown in our society, having learned the same lessons society has taught us...but having a father who degrades woman. One who teaches him that they are objects and that it's alright to degrade them. Well he knows, concsiously, that it's wrong in our society to treat human beings that way. He's well aware of the "moral" choice and is fully concious that his act of rape or whatever is evil. Then how can we justify it by mearly that he knew no other way because of his culture. Better yet, for the sake of this example, what if there was no father? What if he lived an average, idealistic life....and then decided to murder and/or rape various woman and/or men and/or lemurs he liberated from the zoo? He certainly KNEW that it was wrong...he just didn't care.
But now we can argue NATURE! YAY!

This question is invalid, There is no such thing as good or bad as a whole. It only depends on what you believe in. Meaning, some may say that stealing is bad and others may say its good. Since no one is God, you cant say that one thing is bad or good as an absolute truth.

Good and evil is kind of a false concept. Every good person has a spark of evil in them and every bad person has a spark of good in them. Instead of thinking it as man is solidly good OR evil, you should think of it as man is neutral and has potential to do either good or bad acts.

*long rambling comment* = Agreed.

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>>175>>175>>175>>175>>175>>175>>175>>175>>175>>175>>175>>175>>175>>175>>175>>175>>175>>175>>175>>175>>175>>175>>175>>175>>175>>175 best answer here.

I believe we are esentially good, from a Christian standpoint, we were made in God's image...flawless....we were inncoent and good until we Lucifer came around.

Man is man. I don't feel there's a good or evil in this world, simply truth and lies. Man is essentially a lying race, but we do have our truthful moments.

In the modern sense of morally and politically correct set of values, man is by nature, "evil" at birth. No man would respect another if there were no consequence. Take a look at archaic societies and how barbaric they were. They had so much freedom to do as they please and no one could stop them and tell them "no, what you are doing is evil, cruel, inhumane, and most of all not okay". People were murdered for fun and without rules people would riot, back-stab, lie, and kill just for that loaf of bread.

In my opinion, (not talking on religious terms) I don't think humans were born with this essence of 'good' and 'evil' at first. My guess is that over the time, people started to believe in religions, ect. So in the end, these terms, 'good' and 'evil'. Then, the humans started to label the other human beings, both born and in the process of. Once those terms began, then the humans began believing these things, thus started acting evil, bad, good, ect.

So, my belief is that, humans were born, neutrally.

That's what I think.

>>182 I second that opinion.
Considering we are man, how we judge ourselves is a touchy matter as everyone has a different view on good and evil, especially differing between religions... But I digress, the human race is a thing of curiosity so what we picture as 'good' and 'evil' relating to ourselves may just be completely different to what good and evil really is.
But who am I to say considering I'm only human as well...

That's all true, but what if there was no one ther to teach him morals. He/She could either be running around killing everyone or be running charitites. Without anyone one there to teach them morals they would have to learn about it themselves. And depending on the type of person they are, the range is infinite. But, that person could have been raised by someone with the best morals on the planet, but has a mental problem that makes them crazy phsycopaths. It really could go any way depending on the situation.

Read Lord of the Flies. It has the answer to your question.

Maybe it's not a question of good or evil. Maybe a question of 'reason or desire', perhaps.

I wouldn't really say man is good or evil. We start blank, and the ones before us poison us into what they believe to be good or evil, so who's to say what good and evil really are? The meaning of those words was lost before they even existed, really. How do we know killing isn't what we're supposed to be doing and that peace is not evil? Simple. Was your first instinct when you saw someone you love to hold them or hurt them? Most would say hold, and thus the majority decided that this affectionate action was good and the other evil.

But in all seriousness, I shall quote Captain Jack Sparrow for this one.
"Evil is a matter of perspective."

its the same question from one of my subjects( Philosophy of Man). my answer was "man is essentially good" and he marked it wrong. He said the justification lies on man's birth, since he is born greedy for milk and when he grows he surely would need to strive and accumulate things (such as wealth, friendship, etc.) in order to live. or somewhat along those lines. :p

"it is absure to devide people into good or bad, people are either charming or tidious"

I see several people saying that man is naturally evil because we're born with nothing but greed and they grow to want more. But is greed really evil per say? Is it nothing more than our instincts which we use to keep us alive? Now later it may form something which could be considered wicked or evil but when we're born could you really say that we're evil?

I believe that man has no good or evil. They're only ideas which we use to label people. If humans did not exist then neither would the concepts of good and evil. Even now there is no real good and evil, only people following their natural need to gain. Even so, I still try and follow the idea of what we claim to be good. After all, why not? If there is any real good or evil in this world then it would have to be our feelings of joy and hate, and I stride to bring as much joy as I can. Well, at least for the most part. There are still those who I feel don't deserve kindness and I tend to keep away from those types of people if I can.

Neither. Man has stages, of selfishness and selflessness. Man decides what is "good" and "evil". Man decides what is good and what is evil in order to set up guidelines for future generations to learn from. "Evil" is essentially the stuff that some people do that the majority things is really annoying/dickmoveguy.

An example: Apocalypse happens. Food is scarce. People band together as groups, traveling around trying to survive. One such group runs out of food. Freak accident happens, and a well respected member dies. Events may now diverge.
1) Bury the respected member as is old tradition.
2) Someone from the group convinces the others that the respected member would have them eat of his body so that they can survive. Others reluctantly agree and feast, out of necessity. Tradition has now been established. The eating of members who have passed away.

You'll note that in scenario 1, nothing has happened that would change the perception of cannibalism to be a positive or "good" thing. However, in scenario 2 you'd have instances where people would talk about how good men deserve cannibalism (e.g. Those soldiers fought for our freedom, their family deserves the family funeral feast for the sacrifice they made.)

Long story short, man is neutral. Anything done that's worse than expected is "evil" while going above and beyond the standard is "good". Man has the choice to drive society towards a "gooder" or "badder" style of living, but in the long run it will just become neutral again.

Life is balance, baby.

+1 for family funeral feast alliteration.

Morals are a subjective part of society that vary and change culture to culture. Evil and good are two sides of the same coin. Everyone has a different opinion. There is no true good or true evil.

Humanity as a whole cannot be dictated to be either "good" or "evil"... after all, these are merely concepts we've derived from the norms of society and from religious texts such as the Bible. Can you label man's innate desires of greed as evil? Can man's desire for constant progress and advancement be considered evil? If so, then yes, man is evil at heart. After all, the first thing that a baby seeks after birth is milk, but isn't that just his natural instinct for survival kicking in? My apologies for not being organized in my thoughts and for asking more than actually answering. It's all a matter of opinion in my... erm.... opinion.

partly good and evil. think about it are we so evil for what we learned. if we learn it it isnt really our fault but we are bad to. we destroy nature, slaughter pigs and cows, we even kill each other. of course a lot of men or evil considering the fact that a lot of em rape little 4 year old girls and hem kill them

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Man is essentially evil and we have somehow found a way to do enough good to over said evil for a few precious moments of our lives. Our nature is to destroy, kill, and steal. As well as bringing agony and pain to all other humans and animals. But somehow, there is also a thirst for humanity, pride, and happiness. Maybe that's why we pillage and kill. Perhaps we are just in search of happiness, though 99.9% don't even know what true happiness is.

What we do that people consider "evil" is often just survival instinct. That's my view anyway. If it's done in self-preservation, I don't consider it evil, e.g. killing animals. People without severe mental disorders (i.e. sociopaths) don't cause harm without a good reason. So I don't think we're born evil, we just value our own lives over others.

Man is not good, or evil, were just built to survive. What's seen as good are acts which benefit our survival and others. What's perceived as "evil" our actions which are non beneficial, or possibly harmful to our existence.

Both are abstract moral constructs based off of the subjective opinions of those who define them.

"There is nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so" I think this is true

I guess it's that you have to work hard at being good because you were born evil or that you were born evil, so you can't help doing evil things. -MGS 2

i think that man all have a choice to be good or bad, whether they were taught good or bad. if taught bad, they have the choice to actually repent and correct themselves. yes, man gets easily taught and manipulated, but they have the will to actually listen to it. so, man can be both good or bad

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>>130
True, my friend, and I am by no means against work. Let it stand, the jobs of our average lives, to guide those who have not yet become anything better. (Because in plain English, someone really does have to stand there at one point.)

>>129
And allow me to correct you upon my return, but I by no means meant to say that you are born with brilliance. It is something that at one point in your life, despite anything you've done, that you come to a realization of greatness and prosperity (Now, don't call it money-matters).

But to only reply to the first part of your post: IQ...is subjective. The man who invented Calculus, Isaac Newton, is ranked a 190 on the IQ scale...who created a new branch of math...because at the time, regular algebra wasn't enough. IQ...that's...yeah.

And well...see. I did not mean to make it look like "stupid" vs. "smart." To be honest and brief, to use those terms in the first place (as to the word 'ignorant'!) is pretty short sighted. When I mean brilliance, I mean it in its own way, where I don't have time to explain it all to you (as I've explained enough, about many matters).

And to put my own opinion in there, if a man were to jump off a cliff, I wouldn't call him an idiot. Surely, every man has a reason and I believe that, even if it's unknown to me. But then again, I wouldn't care in the first place.

And also, people create their own boats. That's like saying luck gave them the power to invent. To say, my opinion on "geniuses" only stand that all the information we know now, was not known to them, meaning that they had a more likely chance to discover something. Er...if you're old enough, Chi square. That should explain it. (The P value)

I believe things like good and evil are created by humans. Right and wrong is decided by humans and because there's so many of us, we tend to have alot of different idea of something that is wrong and something that is right. When I child is young, they display a selfish behavior and adults think that is wrong, from a selfish person or a child's perspective, they have not done wrong.

To say humans are naturally evil or naturally good is decided by an individual based off of their personal idea of what is wrong and what is right.

bro you selling the effing bible here? all man have desire. inncont and pure is bull crap. desire equal changes. i don't know who the F tell people not knowing is pure. look a world with out desire and your so called "evil" is a world with out change and it will suck ass!

Humans are born selfish, in order to survive. Depending on their personality, choices, and environment [And the way their raised] it could go either way. But, people are born, in a sense, bad. Though, it can go either way from the time that they can make their own decisions...

Because of instinct to survive and do what we want and not care about other living things, we are evil. But a lot of people control that, and they are good. I don't think all people are good or evil, I believe in balance, so there are as many bad people as there are good. But this is my personal opinion, and I completely agree with Ruru

People are not esentially good or bad, as the notion of right and wrong was invented by humans. It is people who decide if they are good or bad, as without this human idea, everything is neutral.

i don't believe in 'good' or 'bad'. Whether you're good or bad is how society views you in the end, so I don't really believe in 'morals'.

To judge man as good or bad is a serious topic. I don't think that man, as a whole, can really be classified as good or bad. There are, of course, good people and bad people. Humanity as a whole really can't be put on one side or the other. It all depends on individuality.

we are both. when we are born we know nothing except for what one has taught us being our mother or farther or even grandparents maybe adoption. whatever their morals are they will pass on to you. if you have parents that are very religous and only believe one way then thats how you will be. but if your parents do not tell you morals only right from wrong then you have no sense of why you should or shouldnt do things. it all depends on how the generation before us taught it ever since we were young. so all in all there is both good and evil out there we just have to choose a side and break away from what we were taught.

HOLY FUCK! I'VE BEEN HERE FOR SEVEN MONTHS AND HAVEN'T SEEN THIS!

I'm quoting this from Harry Potter because I like this:
"We've all got both light and dark inside us. What matters is the part we choose to act on. That's who we really are. "

I kind of like it because I agree with it. We all have good and evil thoughts, but whether we are good or evil depends on what thoughts we act upon. Therefor we all have good and evil inside of us. We are good or evil depending thee actions we take. To answer the question, we have the potential to be either good or evil, but it depends on our actions.

Here's another idea I like concerning this topic:
“Evil exists to glorify the good. Evil is negative good. It is a relative term. Evil can be transmuted into good. What is evil to one at one time, becomes good at another time to somebody else.”

I couldn't word it the way I liked, but this quote comes close. Basically, What you think is good, I make think is evil. Hitler thought he was doing good. Nazi Germany thought they were doing good. The rest of the world saw it as evil. It's all a matter of perspective and situation. When everyone tells us that killing off an entire race is good since we were children, we make think it's good. We don't know any better. It's just what we were told.

Here's a last perspective that follows the more Christian path:
We are all born good. We're born pure and 100% innocent to the world. We do not judge, hate, or sin in any way. As we go through our life, we are corrupted by evil and sin. The good and innocence is taken from us by the sin and corruption of the world. Therefor we're born good, but evil eventually tries to take over. Then it becomes a fight to stay good. It's a fight to love someone unconditionally even though you dislike them. It because a fight to except everyone and anyone as freely as you did when you were a child.

Now that I've told you I like, I'll tell you what I think.

Have you ever looked back on your life and thought, "I was so innocent back then" or "I used to be oblivious to the cruelties of the world"? I believe that were are all born good. We're born completely innocent and evil-free. We're 100% pure as of the moment we're born. Then as we live, more and more corruption enters our life and turns us more and more susceptible to turning evil.

Once we've become completely aware of the evils of the world, and have seen a certain amount of it (late childhood to early teens or around puberty), we then have both good and evil inside us. Then it's our choice if we'll do good or evil. Will you bully that kid to get a rise because it makes you feel good or will you defend him knowing you could get hurt? It's now a "What would you do?" situation. What you do determines if you're good or evil.

Now I come to my last part. Whether or not you're good or evil depends on who's judging you. The radical Christians think they're good and gays are evil. They think hating gays makes them good, but someone like me who's only been truly excepted by gays, and I'm a Christian, I think that loving one unconditionally makes you good. I don't care what everyone else thinks about gays, I'll always love them with some part of my heart. I think that the people hating them are evil while they think that I'm evil for loving them.

That makes three stages of Good and Evil. The beginning (When your pure), The choice (When you have both), and The perception (When it's a matter of opinion). You have to take all three into thought when discussing if one is "good" or "evil".

This ultimately means that the only true "Good" is that one moment when you are completely pure. After all that, then it's a matter of choices and perception.

I believe that we have the potential to either good or evil but the main question that should be asked is what makes a person evil or good killing some to our human perspectives is evil because that person could have had a family or someone who loves them BUT dthen that means we are all evil because we have slaughtered BILLIONS of animals for our own satisfaction im not a vegan I still eat meat but its still qualified as murder because animals have friends and families. Then theres what makes a person good just because you do a good deads does not make you good nothing good because you still have potential to commit an evil dead Super heros are viewed as people who are beyond corruption but in all reality if a person were to be placed in their shoes we would eventually crummble I like how 218 showed the three stages of our choise to be good or evil but to be there is only two steps when you are a child and when you have the choice because every single desicion we make no matter how small makes up our character and our karma (The repecution of our actions) wheather it be good or bad you may think of yourself good but we will never entirely know its an infite question that may never have a possible sensible answer AWESOME question though love philosophy

I think there is no suck thing as good or evil, because no one on the earth is more important than the other, no one can make an absolute truth. Some that you make things is bad I can say it is good. As long as one person believes differently it cant be labeled an absolute truth. In short everything is relative to each person.

I like the way you said that very interseting

Personally, I consider humans as self-satisfying creatures. People that are labeled as "good" or "evil" are just self-satisfying and are given those labels only because what satisfies them reflects the general perception of what those names mean. Good being what you should be and evil being what you should not be. Short and simple.

It actually depends on one's point of view, we are born innocent, clueless of what is still good and evil, from a point of view, ones evil might be one's view of a favorable deed.

morals can be twisted by what people tell you and what is "good" and "evil" is just a matter of opinion that an older person will tell you.if a child's parent says it is okay for the child to kill someone if you wanted to the child would accept that as a "good" thing to do if he/she was told that by a influential figure(s).

I honestly don't think anything is in black ad white. I don't think human nature can be described as 'good' or bad.' I think at the end of the day, our instinct is to survive.

Are we evil or good in our own eyes is difficult to decide. Religiously speaking, we're all born into sin and search for purity and holiness. You are right though, If we were to grow up without knowing what morals are and what is right and wrong then we would not have that sense and everything would be right in our eyes. However, we do have that sense and we know the good and bad we do. To ask the question "Is man essentially good or evil?" is to ask if air is Carbon Dioxide or Oxygen. Air is both, just as man is. Man has the desire to both build and destroy. Sometimes one or the other is stronger than the other. In my opinion, man himself is neither good nor evil but can be swayed either way.

Cleaning

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Hmmm... I guess people aren't good or evil, well by the society's moral, people who steal or kill and things like that are bad and obviously go to jail but it realy depends on each person's definition of what's good or bad. If a child ( 3 or 4 years old for example) does something like stealing they aren't bad if no one as teached them that you shouldn't do that. The same thing happens with mentally ill people that don't know what's good or bad, for some of those poeple they may think that is normal to kill people that, in their vision, shouldn't exist. They may think their doin something good, depends on our morals and conscience ... but that's just my opinion.

People are not esentially good nor evil. As was said, we are born without morals. We don't really have a sense of right or wrong until it is taught to us. So, no.

In all reality, it is only by choice if you are good or evil. Not any living being is entirely good, or entirely evil. Evil may have a slightly good reason, while good may have done something bad. Either way, as said, we are born without morals, so no one would be good or bad from the start. Now I could go on longer and bring "Yin and Yang" into this, but you get the point.

A story my father told me comes to mind, he heard it from an old Rabbi who survived the Holocaust. Please bear with it since I'll be using metaphors that will be explained at the end.

There are two wolf cubs in each of us. Both of them feed off of your actions and there will come a time when one of them will die. One is fed from doing good things and the other is fed from doing bad things. When you grow up the one you fed the most will eat the other and you will have to feed that wolf for the rest of your life.

If you do bad things you will feed the bad wolf, but as long you do many more good things you will feed the good wolf and it will overcome the bad wolf when you grow up and you always do good things for the rest of your life. It can go the other way of course as well.

I always found that story to be a very accurate analogy to life. Take what you will, but I think that old Rabbi was very smart and wise.

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man isnt wicked we just try in ways that are not seen as acceptable, because we dont understand everything ourselves

There is a tale that says something great!!
the name is THE TWO WOLVES (Los dos lobos)

An old chief of a tribe was having a talk with his grandchildren about life. He said:

"A big fight is going on inside me! ...Is between two wolves!

One wolf is evil, fear, anger, envy, sorrow, anger, greed, arrogance, guilt, resentment, inferiority, lies, pride, egotism, competition, superiority.

The other is Kindness, Joy, Peace, Love, Hope, Serenity, Humility, Kindness, Generosity, Compassion, Friendship, Empathy, Truth, Compassion and Faith

This same fight is going on within you and within all beings on Earth. "

I thought for a minute and one child asked his grandfather: "And what of the wolves think will win, grandfather?"

The old chief replied, simply ...

"The one you feed."

personally i think that this correct the option is ours...

Saludos desde Chile!!!!!!

No man is essentailly evil. People all seek happiness in their own ways, which make them conflict with each other and gives birth to contradiction. In truth theres nothing as evil in this world.

The truth is there is no good or evil, these terms are merely words to classify our actions to help us stroke our egos one way or another. In reality if you are the one to judge someone's actions like this chances are you haven't heard all sides. It's mainly about the facts wasting time on whats good and evil helps nothing it only leads to stagnation.for example, say you come upon an army recruiter saying if you don't join your anti-American, you still decide not to, the officer stands with a shame filled look and everyone around you thinks your a ****. Of course someone he should really listen to is the one in the back looking at both sides who thinks to himself,"Hm... This man has a wife and child if he went into service they wouldn't be able to get by on just the mothers salary alone if he joins he'd be putting his loved ones at risk how good would that be?" in the end its all about the information one has you could be the most righteous ass in the world but those who try to classify a single event so simply is truly doomed to fail.

"Everything is relative
Within the eyes of God,
Someone's pain brings someone else's delight,
And all it takes is just a subtle
Shift in point of view
To make the wrongs of Man seem good and right.

But I should give you warning that a thing that's done is done,
You cannot just abandon it and go,
And if you try, you may find out
Eternity is longer than you know."

Oh god, not this again! >_< We did this in one of my history classes a couple of years ago. Here's what my class came up with:

No. Man is born neither good nor evil. It depends on the person and experiences and choices that halp determine whether that person is goof or bad.

It's usually up to the personality of a person as to the choices they make. And thus, determines good or evil.

man is not evil because man is needed by women to survive and reproduce

@sao sorry but god is not real evolution is but peace is our main goal one way or another

>>247 O.o idiot. first, you don't define MAN as a gender, but as the whole human race. second, man may need women to reproduce, but it's a vice versa symbiotic relationship. third, woman is the cause of a man's success, or downfall.


Man is not good or evil. Man labeled actions. The actions are what can be good or evil. And man choose how to act. But one or two actions can never define the essence of man.

E.g. In a war, both countries think that they are the good guys. But that does not make any of them correct. Because if they are both right, then they cancel out each other, as opposites can not be both correct. So who is good? It depends on who is studying the history. Native from country A believes that country A is good, and same goes for the native from country B. But if a native from another country reads the history of this same war, he will say that both countries were doing what they think was best.

>>248 I know. I don't believe in god, but that's how the song goes... and even without god, there is still good and bad. I think Celestial (>>246) Is right. People are born neither good nor evil. personally I believe evil is objective and absolute... but that's just me. Also, I think that most people eventually just want to have food and a safe place to sleep and other simple things... religion and philosophy come much later... and I believe that when people have a good life, they will be better people.

This is one of my favorites.
I think man is, essentially, good. Then, here goes my point:
First I'll set the basis, the rules and premises I'm using. I'm atheist, politically not bound to any party, but not anarchist either; and so are my statements. I assume that a human being will not do anything that does not favor it unless it's forced to. And I'll assume that there has been no external influence in human history (not gods, not aliens, not any other non scientifically proven being).
The human race has evolved creating a morale, a series of rules with the purpose of forcing the people to act on the good side. This is enough to prove my point. All nations made their morale. Even if the moral code we use here and now sees old codes and foreign codes as "bad", what the makers of these code wanted was common "good". So, if humankind is so keen on making laws that force us to act as "good" people, I assume men are essentially good.

I guess this just goes to the question of environmental influence, that are placed by the child's surroundings.

First to define Whether people are inherently good we must ask,Is there a such thing as good or evil?The answer is no.What you consider right or wrong is really what is socially acceptable.This differs depending on were you live.Ultimately good and evil is perception.

Bump

Children are not born hateful,spiteful or racist.

I believe there isn't such a thing as good or bad,there are just different points of view,i don't believe people are born good or evil they're a blank slate,the world around us is what defines our beliefs and moral,there is where this whole "good" and "bad" appears.

Everyone is born sinful in that they are sinful at heart. Even if they do not do anything wrong in the physical sence they are commiting sins that are part of the human nature. A few of these may include greed, sloth and others.

>>257 Actually, I believe I read a study that showed people are naturally more biased in favor of their own race than other races. I'll pull it up if I find it, as it's been a long time since I read it.

But yeah, I kind of get what you're saying. Even though they are naturally biased in favor of their own race, it's not like they will automatically go out and try to lynch other races just because. Most of the time they're brought up thinking in that train of thought.

Hmm 'tis a rather insightful question. Although I personally subscribe to the idea that humanity/people are inherently dumb, and I think that Einstein agrees, I have a hard time believing that people's morals are simply affected by their genes. I will not deny the existence of those who were born into a family that one would most likely label as "bad" or "dysfunctional" and continue on to be some of the most charitable people you could meet, but the opposite is true as well. Now one could also argue that one's soul may affect one's morals but no one has yet to accurately identify what a soul actually is although everyone agrees that we all have one. So I guess the short version of this is that people are at best random and you never know if your infant child is going to grow up to be the next Ghandi or the next Hitler.

>>259 Don't even get me started on that shit. People are not born sinful. Even when I was Christian I didn't believe that shit. But people are not born as "blank slates" either. Your heredity goes far in deciding who you will be when you grow up.

Some people will grow up to be psychopaths no matter what you do, trust me, I know a few. But your experiences also mold you in important ways. Somewhere these two things meet and you get a person. This person may be good or evil.

>>262 Just to clarify: psychopathy is an illness, not related to "good" or "evil". (just as data: psychopathy causes the person not to see itself as human, so the laws governing over him/her are different, for him/her, from the laws governing over other people).
But on everything else, I agree with you. We should not put religion here as basis. Mainly, because religion has it's origin on morale, and morale is what we are discussing now (we cannot explain morale with religion, if religion was born from the morale, that's tautology).

Quite simply, how can we think of humans that are of purity, or darkness. When you think about it, there is no real right or wrong, let along holy from unholy. It is simply the value of what humans think of it. In truth, humans are all simply neutral, nothing, zip. We only control what we fear and fear what we cannot control or understand, thus, that is stated as evil. A man could go on a "Holy journey" Killing many people that are not of anywhere near a threat, but could still be a "good person." So long to short, it is what it is, and you are what your base values state you as. Nothing more, and nothing less.

Simple We are both Generally good and evil. We act on instinct when first born so you can't judge a newborn on that. And as what's been said Experiences and heredity shape a person but there is good and bad in everything so thats why some things we do might be good for us but bad for others thats why we are both.

You people are so clueless! "GOD COMMANDED THE MAN YOU ARE FREE TO EAT FROM ANY TREE IN THE GARDEN BUT TO MUST NOT EAT FROM THE TREE OF THE KNOWLEDGE OF GOOD AND EVIL"

We know both good and evil because of Adam and eve! We are born in sin and we will die in sin!

>>266 >>267.

Go die.

That's all bullcrap (no offence to Christians out there). But seriously, we are born with the power to do good AND evil, but it also depends on how people define those terms.
It's all in the eyes of the beholder.

>>268

i agree.

>>268
agreed...good and evil are very vargue terms to be used with such ease...and any man is capable of both(depenting the life he had lived)

>>268 is right. Those kind of things makes Christians seem ignorant, and that has caused me to hate their religion's influence.

Everyone kind of has the freedom to figure out morals, though most of ours come from ignorance, parents and influences as children. I am 13, and I already know that no-one is powerless to learn about these topics, meaning no-one is completely powerless to actually change that obliviousness.

Now, I'm not bragging or asking for sympathy, but I was poorly taught morals as a child and was exposed to the internet at a young age. Where am I going with this? Well, as you all may know since parenting is appalling in this generation, majority kids have: bad morals and discriminative views upon the world- this will influence children to do bad things that lead the world to 'evil'. Yay, bad parenting leads to idiot children.

So maybe the world IS evil, as Light Yagami would say:
"The world is rotting." And it is. Slowly, as ignorance is spreading like a virus in a school computer.

In my opinion, maybe homo sapiens are leading themselves to their downfall.

I believe that no matter how "moral" we are, ultimately we do actions with the intent of self benifit. I feel that man is in fact, evil.

>>271 Seriusly ur only 13?!?!?!
I mean wtf?!? u got some very nice communication skills there and a such solid and complete way of thinking for your age...nice going...
(I hope I was like you at that age...not that we got much differece...but still it would make my life a bit better,and with less poor mistakes/choises)
oow btw...I agree with you at some points...but in some cases gentics can make the difference...i mean a bad parent with astaunishing IQ could make a very smart child despite of being an incapable parent...
and ofc the world ISN'T evil...CAUSE THE WORLD IS A MASS OF ROCKS!!! XD...i mean there is always a balance between those things u define as good and thse u define as evil,if not then ur definiton is incomlete
e.g:i may be selfcentered sometimes but that gives me high self confidece... and i may be mildly ataraxic but that makes me keep my cool in tough situations and think more reaonably...wherever there is sth bad there is always sth good in that and vica-versa
>>272 all actions are made for direct or indirect self benefit even if it not clear even to one-self...(my opinion though)

>>273
Grammar and spelling please...

Your just mad because you know im right! We know both good and evil because of Adam and eve! We are born in sin and we will die in sin! Think about how the world would be if thay just obeyed god.

If mankind chooses to be "EVIL" then so be it...but among all the humans out there, there WILL be people who will really stand up for what is good and just...and to #272: No matter how evil we are, we will always have MORALS (or more specific) a CONSCIENCE. even if all else becomes Evil...there WILL be people who will not. Going back, just think. WHAT IS "LIVING"? WHAT IS LIVING ITSELF? when do we consider ourselves as "ALIVE"? Are we truly living if our only desire is too satisfy our own selfish need? ...hmmm....NO. NOT AT ALL. even if we do satisfy the highest point of our need, IS IT STILL ENOUGH?? hmmm...NO. then what is missing?? Well that's for you to figure out. It's where our inner voice comes in. It TELLS US WHAT'S MISSING. And THAT is LIVING.

>>276 what is missing is God. if you don't have god in your life you will never know happyness or love.

>>277>>275 your right i 100% aggre with you

>>271 you are dumb as hell the world is not evil the ppl in it are. ppl like you are a Sad Excuse for Humans

i think we are essentially a blank page of potential, what is written in those pages over time define us. we make our own choices, we are not inherently evil nor are we born good. i dont know if im explaining this in a good way, but i like to think this, light and darkness are not good vs evil but both CAN be good OR evil. im christian it is said that satan can disguise himself as an angel of light, why can't we? there is no true good or evil so to speak but something more like how we trreat each other, one who kills dont always think they are evil, and a church going "Christian" can act like a "good" person but are evil people.

i think we are essentially a blank page of potential, what is written in those pages over time define us. we make our own choices, we are not inherently evil nor are we born good. i dont know if im explaining this in a good way, but i like to think this, light and darkness are not good vs evil but both CAN be good OR evil. im christian it is said that satan can disguise himself as an angel of light, why can't we? there is no true good or evil so to speak but something more like how we trreat each other, one who kills dont always think they are evil, and a church going "Christian" can act like a "good" person but are evil people.

'In our world today, could you really categorise everyone into such simple words as good and evil?' Quote from my book (not published yet)

>>263 While it may not medically or whatever be considered evil it still makes my point. Some people are just born...not right.

I happen to be closely related to a sociopath. For those of you who don't know that's someone born without a conscious. She's a pathological liar and neglected her son until her sister adopted him. Her mother gave her all the support you could possibly ask for until the day she died. And this sick twisted woman never even came to visit her while she was dying.

In short, some people are just born bad. There is nothing anyone can do to stop it. But most people chose whether they will be good or evil or somewhere in between.

I don't believe man is good or evil. I feel that people do what they have to do to survive.

Being good to one person may be evil to another and vice versa. It depends on the opinion of people. Is it evil for a lion to kill a tiger? It's impossible to categorize people in to morals that we have created.

Well to me we are both I mean here is how you can think about this
Where does good and evil come from
how can we figure out your question when we dont know exactly what good and evil is

>>286 "GOD COMMANDED THE MAN YOU ARE FREE TO EAT FROM ANY TREE IN THE GARDEN BUT TO MUST NOT EAT FROM THE TREE OF THE KNOWLEDGE OF GOOD AND EVIL"

>>287
You're implying everyone here is Christian.

>>288 -facepalm- thats not it at all wow your dumb.

>>289 Nor that any of us care.

>>289
I'm afraid you don't understand, so I'll clarify.
When you say in >>287 "GOD COMMANDED THE MAN YOU ARE FREE TO EAT FROM ANY TREE IN THE GARDEN BUT TO MUST NOT EAT FROM THE TREE OF THE KNOWLEDGE OF GOOD AND EVIL", to the question in >>386 of "how can we figure out your question when we dont know exactly what good and evil is", your giving an answer assuming that said person is a Christian.
If they weren't, for example, than you haven't really answered their question, as they wouldn't see it as a viable answer.

Now, that depends entirely on >>286's beliefs, but that's the point. And no, we're not going to continue this into some sort of fight over religion, they never get anywhere.

Not christian
Just sayin

>>291 he sead "we dont KNOW exactly what good and evil is" YES WE DO! Q:what is knowledge? A:knowledge is KNOWING somthing like if you kill someone you KNOW what your doing is evil. or when you save a baby from a hose on fire you KNOW what you are doing is good. now do you get it we DO know what good and evil is.>>386 is wrong

>>293
Ah, I see.
If it's so easy than please define for me a working definition of what "good" and "evil" are, as you surely seem to know it well.

>>293
No that is what we BELIEVE is morally right technally right and wrong good and evil dont exist

>>293 your worng BELIEVEING and KNOWING are two diffrent things. >>293 GOOD means to do the right thing. EVIL means to do something bad or wrong

>>296 Okay, so how do you determine what is "good" and "evil." Yeah, I get the whole "blah blah Bible say contradictory statement blah" thing you follow, but what about, let's say WWII?

Hitler is one of the heaviest representations of an evil man known to history, and yet he was perceived as a hero to the German people for saving them from the destruction of their nation, it's resources and economy after the League of Nation's censured them into impoverishment after WWI.

I don't care what you personally think about this in the sense of which side you're on, (though God knows everyone here probably couldn't hate you any more if they wanted to) but is either side evil when they were all collectively submitting to what appeared to be good?

We know you have a great deal of hate, and to us your spite to all other walks of life but your own tells us all that you're evil, but you obviously don't. So, do you KNOW what evil is? No, you just BELIEVE that you KNOW, and that's all the more you can ever be capable of.

>>297 don't get mad because im smarter then you bitch. Hitler is in hell for killing gods people being called a hero dousen't matter if your going to do evil things!

The line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?”
― Aleksandr I. Solzhenitsyn

I believe all men are born with the capacity for both, and to which side of the line we end up on is based almost entirely on circumstance.

>>297 we can't say hitler was evil because no one knows his side of the story. Apparently he had a really bad childhood so that could have deformed him into thinking the way he did.

>>300 "we can't say Hitler was evil" well we can't call him a saint ether now can we? And bad childhood my ass! Just because you had a bad childhood dousn't mean you don't know the diffince from right and wrong!

There's no such thing as good or bad when trying to stick the label to a person, someone like Hitler did lots of bad stuff but there were things that he did which were good, he may have been polite to people, may have given people something if they needed it, all in his personal life ofc. So even if we wanted to look at hitler you could say he was largely evil; but absolutely evil? There's no such thing. Same with love, you may say you love someone but that's not totally true in most cases because there will always be something that they do that you don't like, it may be a philosophical position they hold to something more noticeable.

>>296...read that >>262 and the end of >>263 and then try to rephrase what you said WITHOUT souding like the pope this time please...? thnak you
seriusly Adam and Eve is something that even theology doensn't belive in anymore...get a grip of reality....oow and on >>301 actually that's exactly what it means...having lived what you have lived as a person means that you can not perseve the sence of justice,morals and good/evil an other person has sooo...
Bottom Meaning: moras-religion.....hmmm not a good conversation combination...espesially to fanatics ( like i guess you are)
...irrelevant: god doesn't hate fags...you do so try not to hide your petty rasict opinion to someone who was KILED and asked for forgivness for his KILLERS ( or thought women as equal at an age where women where just objects...) cause even the bible you so much belive in does NOT supprt your rasism...( but if you are inerested in still being a rasist you can become a bhudist...cause they have resism even among themseves as part of theyr religion) ;P

>>303 ok, to be fair not all bhudists are...only hinduists...

Good question, my in take on this is that a person can become evil through thoughts and desires.. we are not born with evil but we create it instead... We have evil in us all, no one and I mean no is truly good at heart..?

It may sound harsh and I guess it is, but that is just my opinion..

>>303 262 and 263 ARE WRONG YOU IDIOT! BELIEVEING means follow a credo take 262 for example he BELIEVES People are not born sinful. why? becouse thats what others believe he is following other ppls beliefs. KNOWING means to be aware of the truth of something. you should look at 259 hes a good example like me(and unlike everybody els)he KNOWS that we are born in sin. why do we know this? simple god sead so and god won't say anything thats not true.

>>306 *Sigh* I can't believe I'm answering you, but since you did specifically call me out I will answer. First, you called me a guy, since we are on the internet and my name is typically male I understand this. But I'm a girl, just for future reference.

Anyway, back to your comment, I am not just "following other ppls beliefs" (writing people's as "ppls" just killed me a little inside), based on extensive learning about both my own and other people's religions I went through due to my former religion's practices I made my own choices. There is no reason anyone can say people are inherently sinful. Even if you say you "know" you just can't. By Christianity's beliefs the very nature of God is "unknowable". So, by extension, whether or not people are born sinful is unknowable.

Then we get to this part "god sead so and got won't say anything thats not true". The spelling errors alone are enough to make me want to facedesk. Don't come back with any crappy excuses about being on your phone or being dyslexic or anything. I'm mildly dyslexic and I can still have near perfect spelling on my crappy phone. But that's not the point. The point is, do you have any idea how much the Bible contradicts itself? Besides, the entire thing is written by people, not your God. So chances are the guy who wrote that part probably was just making things up as he went along.

It would be better at this point if you just shut up. Based on your posts I feel the urge to label you as a sociopath. You write outrageous claims, when challenged you get noticeably enraged and you seem to be egocentric. You really have no place on this site.

>>305 Q: how do we "create" evil if evil was already here in the frst place?

true true ~

>>308 Why do you even bother taking part in philosophical discussions? Can you not just accept that peoples views and opinions are different from your own? Or does your obsessive hate-mongering know no bounds? If it's the former, fuck off and go to a christian board. If it's the latter... see a freaking counselor.

you are right evil was already here to begin with, but it is created or should i say manifest because of human desires..

>>307 XD i never sead we are "inherently sinful" see if you can come up with the correct answer to this question: What douse it mean to be born in sin? and dont give me that "we're not born in sin" bullshit THINK befor you answer. moveing on, the nature of God is NOT "unknowable" in order to know the nature of God, you first have to know god. how do we do that? by reading the bible and spending personal time with him. now you sead that the Bible contradicts itself, i hear this all the time yet no one can tell me how it contradicts itself.so can you please tell me how the Bible contradicts itself? and yes the bible was written by people however the bible was not "made up" everything in the bible are things that have happend and are still happening to this day!

yah your right my hate-mongering know no bounds, what can i say im Nachtrally hateful

>>312 "i never sead we are "inherently sinful"" "you should look at 259 hes a good example like me(and unlike everybody els)he KNOWS that we are born in sin.". Two statements that contradict each other right there. You say that we are sinful because we are born but then you say that you never said we are inherently sinful. In case you don't know what that means here it is right from the dictionary "existing in someone or something as a permanent and inseparable element, quality, or attribute". So in your words we are "born in sin" meaning that we sin exists within us no matter what and it is inseparable from us. I do believe that's what "inherently sinful" means.

Here's a few contradictions for you.

PSA 145:9 The LORD is good to all: and his tender mercies are over all his works.

JER 13:14 And I will dash them one against another, even the fathers and the sons together, saith the LORD: I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy them.

So, the Lord is good to all but he has no pity or mercy? Okay then, if that's who you want to follow.

Then there's this one, just a few verses away from each other. Both quotes are spoken by Jesus.

JOH 10:30 I and my Father are one.

JOH 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

How can the Father be greater when they are one?

And right in the almighty book of Genesis.

GEN 1:25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
GEN 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

GEN 2:18 And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.
GEN 2:19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.

So which came first? Them men or the beasts?

I'll admit I can't find the verse about how god is unknowable right now. I simply remember it quite vividly from my religious days. Then you go and say that everything in the Bible happened. Yet you haven't come up with one shred of evidence to show that this is true.

Keep trying, it's entertaining.

>>314 "i never sead we are "inherently sinful"" "you should look at 259 hes a good example like me(and unlike everybody els)he KNOWS that we are born in sin." this is not a contradiction you need to look at that again and think and "PSA 145:9 The LORD is good to all: and his tender mercies are over all his works.

JER 13:14 And I will dash them one against another, even the fathers and the sons together, saith the LORD: I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy them." this is also NOT a contradiction you fail at thinking.

>>315 If it is not a contradiction then how about you explain how it is not? You make these statements but never give any information or arguments that back them up. If you can't explain yourself while I can then I will continue walking through this world knowing that I am right and you are wrong. Also, I'm wondering if you even know what the word "contradiction" means.

To everyone else. I apologize for derailing this thread, it's just so much fun.

Will you two just shut up and get a room already?

>>317 I did apologize. But if you insist...

I would like to debate this point with someone a bit more intelligent. This is becoming tedious.

>>318
Respect

Well, man is naturally good, but can bee corrupted by evil. So, for the most part man is essentially good, but sometimes can have bad traits as well.

I totally misspelled something in there...

>>316 okay sice your to lazy to think. sin is already in the world right? well we are BORN in thit sin eventhow we dont do anything wrong when we are babys. and the lord IS good to all he takes good care of us. "JER 13:14 And I will dash them one against another, even the fathers and the sons together, saith the LORD: I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy them." this is also NOT a contradiction you fail at thinking" now here he is talking about how bad it will get in the future.

I think the point to realize here is that, with a species as varied in actions, personalities, and everything else, as ours, you can't really classify it as a whole.

Everyone has a capacity to do "good" or "bad," but that capacity varies from person to person. We also have to factor in the complexity of an individual's motivation. Some do good for the sake of good, or bad for the sake of bad, knowing full well where they fall on their own personal ethics (basically, the only individuals who can be labeled, cut and dry, as good or bad). Others will do good or bad for their own personal gain, be it money, material gain, power, self-satisfaction, or any other form of fulfillment. Others yet will do an action, good or bad, as a sign of rebellion, or as an act of vengeance/reprisal (i.e. a man donating to an orphanage, to outshine his nemesis who did the same on a smaller scale). Then, there are those who do good or bad to benefit those they care about, or even to benefit a complete stranger (robbing a man to afford a child's cancer treatment). Then, you also have to think about people who are delusional ("If I destroy this hospital, it will be better for society because they might be implanting alien brain chips!").

Honestly, with the large spectrum of actions that one can take, and the infinite number of motives one could have for doing them, it's quite impossible to assign a value of good or bad to the human species, let alone to an individual among them. While it certainly is a novel question, there really is no answer.

>>322 Um, no. That's not what's going on there. If you would actually read the full passage you would understand. And here you are trying to redefine "born in sin". I am officially done arguing with you. When you figure out how to form a semi-intelligent argument then you may come back.

Who ever this is its funny that you ask this because my class was going over this not to long ago. Imagine if we were in the same class and didnt even know it? that would be funny but that is kind of the point of the dollars am I right? well in my eyes people are both because they can change there ways in a heart beat and im sure everyone here knows it.

>>325 Helpful tip: Don't forget to check the post dates :D

>>324 he/she is right we are born in sin and heres how it works adam and eve disobayed god and ate the forbidden fruit thats how thay got sin. now when god kicked them out of the garden of eden thay had children. and the sin that adam and eve had got passed down to there children. and there childrens children and there childrens childrens children you get the idea. anyway there sin is passed down to us when we are born. thats what being born in sin is.

>>327 I have no idea what you are trying to say. I think I just lost a few brain cells trying to decipher that. Protip: unless you use correct spelling and grammar you will not get your point across and you will not be taken seriously.

>>328 adam and eve's sin is passed down to us dont you get it!

>>329 I see now. I didn't check the ID before. Stupid samefag. Anyway, trying to hack through your idiot speak is extremely hard. For example: "he/she is right". Who are you referring to? There are multiple people who could be referred to in this manner. So the person you are addressing cannot discern who you are agreeing with. Plus when you mix up "there" and "their" it makes me immediately write you off as an illiterate idiot.

And I still don't think you understand what I'm trying to say. Inherent: existing in someone or something as a permanent and inseparable element, quality, or attribute. So if sin is passed down to someone as you say it is then it exists in them and is inseparable from them. Wouldn't you agree?

>>330 Unrustle your jimmies. Why are you even arguing right now?

>>331 Implying that I'm mad. I simply enjoy enjoy arguing with him. His arguments just keep getting funnier and they amuse me.

This thread is getting ridiculous.....

>>330 NO sin is a curse you can't "Inherent" a curse becouse a curse get passed down not Inherented.

>>334 Oh my god. My sides. You have no idea what either of those words means. I didn't want to believe you were this stupid, but you are.

>>335 YOUR THE ONE THAT A DUMBASS! to Inherent something it has to be a trait. but sin is a curse and a curse can be passed down from generation to generation. and unlike Inherentes a curse dousen't change. Inherentes douse.

>>336
*You're
*To
*inherent
*And
*inherented (things)
*doesn't
*does
Now that you're done with your first English class, shall we pull out the definition for this word "inherent"?

"involved in the constitution or essential character of something : belonging by nature or habit"
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/inherent

Try and use it properly.

>>336 No, to inherit something means to have something passed down. It's a verb. Something that is inherent is something that is a part of you. It's a noun. And you're talking about "inheritance", "inherentes" is not a word. Learn what something means before you argue about it.

>>337>>338 and just like that i lost... this conversation is over.

from birth we are evil doing things unconciously that is bad when we grow up we are still evil for we do bad stuff and become greedy sooooo yes man is evil i guess....

Let me just ask you this question, what exactly is "good" or "evil"? Everyone has a different opinion or view on what's "good" or what's "evil". Some people aren't able to tell the difference. I think it depends I what YOU think is right or wrong, and then act even I you know, in your mind, what you are doing is definitely wrong. Once you judge yourself as evil you are truly evil. If you do not know, well then, you are probably evil already. Human beings are born without knowing the difference. They are taught the difference between those two. So I don't exacatly know how you could tell if human beings are "truly good" or "truly evil".

Good and Evil are more like frames of mind, mainly set in place by things like morals. So everyone will have a different point of view on what is "right and wrong", "good and evil".

I think that people are born in a neutral state, neither good nor evil (although these terms are essentially arbitrary and are only defined by our societies) but we become more 'evil', or specifically we become more self-centred as we grow up, until we reach a point where we become fully aware of others and their needs, and it's then that we reach a new sort of 'birthing' and choose, subconsciously or not, as to how we continue.

For Christians, we can confidently say that the good works are a result of the Spirit at work in their life. We are a new creation and the same power that raised Jesus from the dead is at work in us to produce faith, obedience, endurance and all sorts of other good stuff.

For non Christians, it’s a bit harder to say. Sometimes it will be out of a desire to feel worthy. Sometimes it will be for the public recognition. Sometimes it will be in return for something good someone did for them. Sometimes it will be because of a strong moral conviction from a religious upbringing. Sometimes it will be because it makes them feel good. Sometimes it will be because they think they should. I think it’s also possible that God could, at times, work through non Christians to do good things

So it seems we all have the potential for good in us, but in reality, our hearts are more selfish than we think. The words of Psalm 51:1-12 show us how David responded when he realised just how sinful he was. It's a great prayer we could all use

@godhatesfags (damn that name, you serious?)
but is the Spirit, or God truly good?
the Bible even admits that God himself is selfish, and that's certainly true throughout most of the OT

>>347 It's better for everyone to just ignore him and everything he says.

>>348
agreed, with a name like that everything he says is invalid

(and yes i forgot to put my username in my last post, my bad ┐('～`；)┌）

>>347 He does not take, he gives. He offers peace, hope and life, and joy to anyone that will come near to him. He is not malicious either. His intentions are pure. He longs to help you live the best possible life, but there is a catch-- you have to trust his son, Jesus Christ. See, God gave his only son so that you could live an abundant life fulled with eternal hope. As you learn to lean on Christ, you will discover an amazing way of life. If you don't you will search for meaning, true contentment and happiness and come up empty.

God is not selfish and malicious person tormenting you. He is the gracious God of Heaven that calls you by name and offers you a great life through His son, Jesus.

>>348 we are here to talk about good and evil NOT to instagate.

>>349 nothing i say is invalid, it is your way of thinking that is invalid.

>>354 I'm not trying to instigate, but I do hope you realize that nothing you say will be taken seriously by 99% of the people on this site unless you change your name. While I do appreciate you finally finding your way to mostly proper grammar; your name is still obnoxious. Based on the name alone most people will completely disagree with whatever you say. If you came back with a different name we might be able to have a decent conversation without everyone getting pissed off.

>>355 i don't know i mean i get enjoyment from making people mad. But okay ill change it.

Nature versus Nurture. In my opinion, we are born not knowing, or innocent, until we gain knowledge of the world around us and then become corrupted. So, yeah, we're essentially good.

We r born with no knowledge. It depends on our parents and our friends. If we have bad parents and good friends... we could easily become good, but a little bad at times. But, if we have good parents and bad friends, we usually end up bad. U see, friends r what most people r based off. We spend more time with our friends than our parents due to school. I see many kids around me get corrupted due to friends.

i think it depends of what you consider "evil". Our twisted mind/actions could be just a product of our nature and you wouldn't label an animal as "evil" just for following it's intstincs. Society is the one that defines what is good or bad and after years of living in it your definition of "bad/evil" will adjust to what everyone has told you. But then other societies may think completely different and subsequently that will create different thoughts about what is "evil". So in the end the real question is "what is evil?"

>>358 thats not entirely true. yes It depends on our parents but we have a choice to do good or evil. if your parents rais you with morals then you will most likely be good but what if you have a friend and he sead to you: "hay lets go rob the elderly" now you know this is bad and you have a choice you could go with your friend and rob the elderly or you could just say no and go home. but becouse your parents raised you well you will say no and go home. and also becouse you know that robing the elderly is a bad thing.

>>361 i agree

As what I have learn in my class all people are essentially good. Because they are made by God who is the source of goodness. And the person is bad because of the Originating Sin that we inherit from them when they disobey God from eating the forbidden fruit of the Tree of Knowledge....

>>363 good answer

Bump for an actual discussion on Main.

I recently took a college philosophy class, so maybe my opinion can help? I am still developing my own ethical theory and if you read about ethical theories you may find it's more complicated than you would assume. My answer: neither. I don't believe in ethical absolutes although I do have my own ideas of right and wrong. I think the question itself is wrong (no offense). First ask: what is good/evil? How is good/evil determined? Is good/evil a valid way to look at the world? Here are some things to google on the subject: David Hume ought/is gap, ethical absolutism, ethical relativism, ethical nihilism, emotivism, kants categorical imperative (full article), utilitarianism, deontological, cultural relativism, evolutionary ethics. If you aren't totally dogmatic some of these should make you question your ethical position.

I think we are capable of being essentially good. but on the other half.. I'm not sure.

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Hm, I would say its neutral and it depending on a persoon's individual or combined actions. Also it depends what your definition of "good" and "evil" is.

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Man is born with emotion, not the drawing towards evil or benevolence. Without emotion we are essentially judged purely by action. With emotion we are judged purely by intention. Man is essentially neither good nor evil, but only full of emotion. From then on, our "good" or our "evil" is placed upon us by what society views us by. The real question should be, does society see man as good or evil? Not whether or not man himself is good or evil.

I agree with Kuro.
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I don't know.. hmmm.. maybe man is born both good and evil. These forces aren't polar opposites after all.

i would say we are simply born neutral and our experiences thru life tilt us in one direction or the other but as evil is more often easier and can be rewarding short term that a few more people would go towards it instead of being a law abiding citizen as that is a bit harder as you must work for everything instead of taking it or taking advantage of another. also you have to think about human nature such as greed

also upon further though evil and good is dependent on how people view it its sort of an eye of the beholder problem

hmm.. so first of all, you need to define "good" and "evil". because, i don't believe in good and bad, i just believe in people.
one person alone can both do things that're considered good, and also the things we call "evil". and in some situations things we do are "good" for one person while "evil" for another. who are we to judge?
some call people without empathy "evil". so maybe that's the definition? maybe not..
even at birth, we are born with something some people call a soul. we are all different, so no one can view the world in black and white.
*done ranting*

Hi~ I just love humans.. nah nevermind that, actually I'm just gonna interfere, just like I always do~

Anyway, I just have this kind of question on my Philosophy class, and pretty much wondered bout' this question... Though the answer can be found through other historic people...
I don't know if that person is: Hippocrates, Charles Darwin, Immanuel Kant or ....

4

If you want my opinion, essentially I'd say Humans are born neutral and as our lifestyles and choices affect us we can become either good or evil or even remain neutral. but that is just my rambling opinion.

i believe that humans are born bad. for example i was babysitting a toddler that had plenty of good influence in and out of the home. YET that baby still knew how to lie when he was in trouble :) plus the whole fall of adam backs me up and the thoughts that humans are inherently bad at first but later on can change for the good or for the worse. Think like megamind! he was brought up in jail which is bad but wanted to be good, however he later remained bad and then came back to good in the end :P so there's some funny proof

*edited*

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i got that question a long time ago, then i tell the whole class that i don't know the answer because i don't give a damn about it.
why the fuck would anyone ask that!? the fact that you know about how good or bad a man is when they are born won't help you at all at your daily freakin' life.
well, the whole class laughed, except the teacher, who later gave me a 0.

It's just depends on the person and their situation in question...A man might be willing to steal for the sake of his family or A politician might create bad rumors on his opponent so that he could win or some men just like helping others...It's just depends on our choice to be good or evil...Yep...It's choice...

Yours Truly
-13

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People don't know the difference between right or wrong when they are infants or small children so they are still considered innocent because of there lack of knowledge. But once that child is old enough and does something that we see is bad or evil and they're not mentally disabled, that's when we call them evil as such. It depends on both the person's on point of views and the views of humans themself to decide that. So in alot of cases we might never know the truth.

Humans are known to wear masks.No one is generally good for they cover their words with lies and deceit.Even when a baby is born,their genetically programmed to do evil whether they tap into it or not,given the circumstances(parents influence).A person can be your bestest friend,but when times get really rough their not there for you.Survival is only on that person's mind not your's. P.S.....watch "SAW".

This is the thing with philosophy, I could argue this both ways. When it comes down to it, humans are out for themselves. If it were up to me, my life or yours, survival instinct would step in and I would save my own life and leave you to die. Anyone would also make themselves as well off as possible while leaving others behind. For the other argument though, people gain pleasure from helping others. Some people will donate almost all the money they have to charity leaving only enough for themselves to live on, but even that I could argue that doing that in itself is selfish.

The problem with 'good' and 'evil' is that morality is relative. In contemporary society, a grown man sleeping with a young woman is seen as abhorrent, where as only in the 19th century was that considered relatively normal. In some countries being homosexual is considered evil and is punishable by death.
I would say that man simply exists, he is neither good nor evil, he simply is.

The actual problem to answering this is not the answer, but the question itself. Man's primal instinct is to want, thus creating strain on the "right" aspect, but there is also a desire to want peace and such which counters the "bad" aspects.

So there is not really an answer to the question because each person due to ethics and surroundings will end up different than the next person.

Thus the answer is neither~
They are just living, which makes it fun~

i think people are neutral at birth, then depending on how you grow up yoou get diffretn views on whats "good" and whats "bad"

Its up to people to decide how to live their life, and the choices makes it good or bad. Choices and consiquenses. And thats whats makes it intresting to live i guess~~

I think that people are bad at the start. But as we live, we have the choice to clean ourselves or make it worse.

Neither. Humans are a chaotic species, but there is no line for good or evil. The authority defines this line so in anarchy there would be no difference. A woman protecting her son from a murderer would be wrong, just as she would be right. Good for protecting a life, bad for stopping the murderer from enjoying them-self. It is quite a morbid way of thinking.

Don't get me wrong, chaos isn't bad. Chaos is merely the diversity of existing and without it life would be a blank and there wouldn't be anything to life for. Striving for order is a good goal, but order itself is not for us.

Order is like the Borg from Star Trek, humans do not want to be assimilated because they'll lose their individuality. Order, however, isn't solid like the Borg and CertainlyNot(<--Inside Joke) looking for new recruits.

>>404 ~glomps~ dont ask I'm not really sure *shrugs*

"Man" created both good and evil, man is inherently good because man believes himself to be so, he names his innate actions positive and his destructive actions negative. It's a case of chicken egg type philosophy. Because man proceeded ideals, ideals are structured in a way that favors man's nature.

Everyone is just typing out the words like mad... I bet if we had papers on this question we all get Excellent. >.<

As my mother always says:"If you believe in it, it happens. If you don't,it doesn't." It's up to you whether you believe in good or evil, or even what they represent in the first place.

I'll be honest though: I don't believe good or evil, I just see the outcomes of the thing at hand and see if it affects me in causing any troubles. Selfish? Maybe. Or conceited. But it's one way to survive in this crazy world. *sigh*

Oh, my sis just called me a emo weirdo. Seriously?
._.///

I believe that man is evil, and born evil. We are born through sin, and in sin. Don't our births cause our mothers pain? And while one woman may be glad to have gone through pain for her child, what if another was depressed? Does that make a one child good, and the other bad?
I believe in the bible, which states that only God is good, and that our 'good deeds' are nothing but dirty rags if you try to compare them to God. Man fell in the garden of Eden, and it obviously wasn't just Adam, it was mankind. So while Adam was born (Full grown ;)) without sin, he and Eve were the only ones. The ones born good, and the ones who became evil.
In conclusion, I believe that, ignoring Adam, we are born evil, we do not 'become' evil.
I'm putting this up here, because it's what I believe, and I welcome anyone who sees this into christianity. Please don't take this the wrong way either. I'm not trying to force anything down anyones throat. I know christians (not trying to be conceited) are not always well liked, but I'm only offering my own opinion. If anyone wants to continue on this thought, or just talk and discuss their idiologies, I'd be glad to. E-mail me at kitaya.kun@gmail.com.

I think man is a necessary evil. We are a cluster of imperfections that aresomehow favored by God over Angels. The reason why we are a necessary evil is because unlike perfect beings, we are capable of choice, making mistakes and correcting them.

This is just my opinion but I think we are born with a knowing of whats wrong and whats right. Like we all know killing someone is wrong. Through out history we have known that killing often doesn't work most of the time. So I thank we are born with a guess a six since. It may differ between people but we all know what is generally whats wrong and right.

>>408 Totally agree ;) haha!

Humans are a race of business.
sometimes what man does looks evil, but some things and people must be eliminated to rebuild.

Good and Evil is something made by man anyway... It's like asking if "survival of the fittest is good or evil".

Other than that, I'm pretty sure we're not born to think: "Hey let's go throw a baby off the roof"

Fundamentally evil.

I say they can be either. There is no black and white like between them. It all depends on who you are. Everybody has a different set of standards and morals. And it depends on how you look things. Depending on your view it could be doing good our destroying the world. Also, what we do is learned. We learn to do almost everything. Good and evil is made by man anyways. Our decisions are based on society. Anything that happens is decided to be good our evil by people with power and high status.

Created to be good, but we screwed it up, bringing in evil. Now we aren't inherently evil, but we might as well be, as the evil we released permeates everything.
However, there are still pieces of the good man left in us. Scientists aren't sure of its source, but they have agreed that humans have a conscience. We are born innocent. And most people still feel a drive to do the right thing in certain circumstances. Even people with twisted world views who do wrong things will occasionally act out of the goodness of their heart.

This is quite a basic philosophical question. Another way of putting it is if you alone were on a different planet, what constitutes morals? From experiences and what society tells us there are things that are bad. Is it wrong to kill animals, such as deer, that inhabit this planet? People used to kill deer for food all over, it was natural. But in todays societ I think it is a little frowned upon by most in the cities. There probably are some morals that you are born with, but a lot of what you think is good, and bad, is just society telling what it is. There are many examples of moral standards being different throughout history, like how spartans used to abandon a newborn if it had some type of defect was normal.

From a said Biblical world view, man is born evil. Man was created in God's own image, and made perfect, but when Satan decieved the first two humans, Adam and Eve, that was where Sin first originated. Since we are all descended from Adam, we are, in turn, of a sinful nature, by "birthright".

When Jesus Christ was born, he was born of a virgin, sent from God himself, as the rightful Son of God, thus coming into the world as free of sin; and with a righteous nature, not inheriting the sinful nature that that is passed on through Adam.

When He, a person with no sin at all, died on the cross for our sins, he gave a worthy sacrifice so that, if we believe in him as our savior who has freed us from our sinful nature, we ourselves will be saved from the wrath of God on a evil race.

In short, we are naturally "evil" from birth, but trusting in Christ Lord as our saviour, he frees us from the evil and we are born again in him.

its simple if you think about it. we are all born with the ability to do both good or evil when it comes down to it evil and good cant really exist with out each outher thus all that press you into eather or is how you where rased, what kind of childhood you had and in most cases what you chouse yourself. but every one has a bit of good and evil in them no matter what you do it just matters how well you can control it or not

I think it all depends on your morals. You could do evil things naturally and be good. Or, you could do naturally good things and be considered evil.

In my opinion, no man or woman is born bad or good. It all depends on society if an individual gets morally bad or good. Just think on this: concepts like good or bad are social so we can't say that a person who has not interacted in a society, can be good or bad. People base their concepts of behave and misbahave depending on the actions of others; if that person is still a newborn, he/she can't be either good or bad since he/she has not done anything yet. :D

In my opinion, there's no such thing as good or evil. We label one as the other in humans eyes; none are exactly the same. You may think one is doing good but in others eyes it's seen as the opposite; which is why this question has been around for centuries.

I would say that humans are born good but quickly are indoctrinated into a lesser morality as we try to gain approval instead of following our hearts, so in essence goodness is within our hearts but embracing it means rejecting much of society, so in a way man is both fundamentally good and evil

Man is whatever they chose to become; but no mater the case man will always be beautiful.

I believe that everyone has a bit of evil/good in them...We all have those fleeting bad thoughts and we all try (well most people) strive to be better people. It's pretty much our choice whether we succumb to that evil bit in us or strive for the good until the day we die.

Good and evil are subjective, and I do not believe in a so-called human nature, because i do not believe in an absolute truth, which also means i do not believe in things such as good or evil. This argument pretty much assumes that the morals in this society are absolute. However, where did morals come from anyway? Since this is something no one can verify, How can we know our current morals are the so-called correct morals?

Some philosophers -like Kant I believe- said that the morally good things are things that are good to all people (considering "all people" as society in general) so the bad thing are like robbing (which society stabilishes as bad) and good things are like mhh not robbing maybe(?) =P. Rosseau also has an interesting theory about good and evil. My take on things is that we all have our own morality values according to our experience and beliefs so the only "good" things are the things you can prove to be better (at least for the most of us).

Neither. Man is Man, and shall forever remain as such until the end.

My opinion is simply that man is essentially neutral, and he will become morally good or bad depending on his influences, experiences, situation, and sense of self.

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Man is what ever we make him

I think it depends on the environment said person is raised in and how they percieve things and interpret them.

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well I guess we're neutral. I mean we are evil and good based on what surrounds us. we humans adopt to the environment around us and that's where we have the good or evil concept. when we were born we do not know what the real meaning of good and evil so we copy whatever concept of good or evil the environment gives us.

I don't see the importance of whether people are good or evil right when they are born. Whether or not a person becomes good or evil later in life is of much more importance. However, to answer the question I would have to say newborns would be neither good nor evil. I would consider new born babies to be innocent. Not guilty of being bad, but also not guilty of being good. They are a clean slate and what they experience in life will shape them into either a good person or a bad person.

Morality is instilled by society as well as personal belief (if one is able to think for themselves at times, that is).

What is good? What is evil? It's all what a person believes. If one is told doing good is the right thing to do, then they will do it. If they are told to do good and told that good is killing those who do not believe the same god that they do, then they will kill the "heretic."

But, there is also the factor of what someone wants to do. They may know stealing is wrong, but if he/she wants to steal, he/she will more than likely cast aside whether it's moral or not and focus on trying to steal whatever they want to steal and not get caught. And in some cases, some people have to steal to survive; to get the basic neccessities of life, which further questions the morality of; the situation, the person(s) involved, and the society around the person(s).

But going back to focus on the person(s) themself, does doing one bad thing make them a bad person? It may make them look like such, but that doesn't mean the person is bad. The person may lie, but that doesn't mean the person is bad. You have to question whether the person is good or not. But that brings a paradox.

How do you tell a person is good or bad? By the deeds they do.

A person that does a lifetime of good and is goodly can look like a devil over one misdeed. What makes Adam Lanza better than any other Christian?

Also, we can look into mental illness and a whole buncha other good stuff like that, but that is getting deeper than most people would even care to go.

Nobody is completely good or evil.
We are humans, not God or Satan, we are the balance...

We had a similar assignment in Intro to CJ earlier this year. The human brain cannot process the difference between good and evil without be taught otherwise. Even if they are taught to be good, if they are smothered, or there is a chemical mutation in their brain, they won't be able to process the difference in real life situations.

I think some children are either taught to be good or evil.But like Pacheco said we are the balance.I think all humans are the ying and yang to the Earth,

I believe humankind is essentially evil, but we just think whatever we do will be for a good cause. I agree that we are born with a clear mind, and bad traits are learned, but no one is perfect. Humans are almost like a parasite to the world; we live off of it and use it's resources, yet we hardly give anything back . . .

I believe we are both as well as we are not, for example personally, I would save the world, but also id pick a lock or some1s pocket lol. Anyway i say its good and fun to both do bad and good things. Most of my life ive been Mr. Heroic charity savior, now im starting to have fun being bad as anything

after a while kindness does get a little lame after a while after having your friends say hey man help me with this help me with that, inside im like ERR I WILL THROW YOU ACCROSS THE ROOM, but on the outside i have to be nice and do the whole yes anything to help. If this is our society this is bullshit, im ready to just wipe out any1 that just pisses me the hell off. Im done being nice, its not a threat its a promise, and if you guys agree, thank you...

Biblically, man is born in sin, therefore he is born evil.
In one statement, which is taken radically (which can't be helped) is that Humans are born as children of the devil.
So the phrase, "we are all children of God," is incorrect, because Jesus is the only child of God.
In Christianity, you become adopted children of God.
BUT THAT'S BESIDES THE POINT!!

So yeah, from a christian perspective, and my perspective, man is born evil. It makes sense though, because children learn to be selfish almost instantly.

Though, I'm not expecting you to agree with me, that would be ignorant of me. I'm just leaving my thoughts to your question.

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at least others agree that religion usually blinds the people from the truth

>>443 If we are going to answer things logically, let's take Christianity out.

Good and evil is entirely subjective. In reality without sentient opinion or feelings there is no good and evil. Good is what you are brought up to believe as good, and the same goes with evil. So humans are neither good nor evil.

you nkow at times not everyone believes in good or evil, but some could be bothe or is that even possible?! Who knows, anyway catch ya` later!

you nkow at times not everyone believes in good or evil, but some could be bothe or is that even possible?! Who knows, anyway catch ya` later!

To quote Shakespeare, The abuse of greatness is when it dis-joins remorse from power. Everyone will make mistakes and no matter how hard you try at some point you might ending hurting others in some way just by doing what you had to do. What differentiates good from evil is how you feel inside about what you did. Did you feel happy by hurting someone? did you feel sad? or were you just apathetic.

I think it would depend on one's perception of good or evil. Frankly, it's subjective. A person is born neither, inherently neither, but whether they're called good or evil depends on who's doing the labeling, and regardless of popular/environmental inclinations.

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As we know from the Bible, people are born with the original sin. So, at this point we can say people are born evil (so to say). But, throughout life, we meet different people, situations, feelings that help us build our personality. So this means that we are always influenced by our surroundings and therefore, we become better or worse than we were at birth. This is my personal opinion.

To me, good or evil it depends on the environment. If the environment is good, then the person will be a good. Meanwhile if the environment is bad, then the person would be evil. But sometimes, it depends on our motivation... well, that's my opinion.

Man is essentially evil; however, this doesn't mean that an evil man can't do good. People naturally develop an evil side, we all have one. Good is what is learned through experience and some can even be taught. It depends on how the person approaches the events of their life and what they decide to do about it as well as what they take away from each experience.

I have to be honest and say i havent read all of this so I can only assume that no one has said this, but this comes down to a nature/nurture debate. If men are born evil then we can rest easy at night knowing that all the evils in the world are not as a result of our own actions, but if we are born neutral or good and turn evil then society may have to shoulder the blame. those who think men are inherintly evil do so becuase it helps them sleep at night.

^

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This has probably been said before, so i apologize, but first you have to define good and evil. Is good sweeping the ground in front of you and making sure not to kill anything living? If so, are plants considered living? Microscopic organisms? I may sound kinda crazy, but these kinda need to be answered. And what's evil? Killing animals? If yes, what if your starving and that's all you can afford to buy? When does doing something out of nessesity become evil? Is killing someone out of self defence evil? Once you've answered these questions you have to cross reference them with basic human instinct. If you are starving, you will kill and eat something. If you are being attacked, you will fight back with whatever force you think is necessary to save yourself. From an overly religious, "everything alive is sacred and a masterpiece from god" stand point, we are naturally evil. If i remember correctly, the bible actually calls reproducing a sin. If we were all naturally good by that standard we wouldnt be alive because humans would have died off a long time ago. If you think doing what we need to do to survive is ok, then i would say we are naturally good and grow to enhance that goodness or develope evil. Just look at young children. You can pick any 2 year olds and put them together on a playground and they wont care what gender or skin color they are, they're just happy they have another person to play with. Even if one of the kids bites the other or something, after the hurt kid is done crying about it, he's quick to forgive. But if you take a few 10 year olds and put them together they start forming groups based on popularity. They start fighting and purposfully hurting eachother just to be mean. I personally believe we start good and grow bad.

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I think the definition of good and evil is lost when this type of question is put forward but I believe that anything evil is anything that hurts a person. When we're hurt, we don't like it. We feel pain and it is unbearable at times where we question if we should continue living. There is a strong dislike to it and I think what is good, is what hurts people the least.
I know some of you are thinking now, but does that make lying good?
No. If you think about it, people may be hurt when they are told the truth, but when they find out they have been lied to, they are more hurt to hear you betray them. Sometimes what is good may hurt some people or a person, but it may be necessary to reduce the amount of hurt felt.
That is my theory.
That what is right, is what can give the maximal happiness, and what is wrong is what would deliver pain and hurt.

Can't agree less..

Not in regards with religion . I personally think that if one can do evil yet can do good depends on the setup or circumstances that appear in society. People make mistakes , that is very true but it leaves others or onlookers to decide and classify them ? That is why the media would side whatever theSociety concludes. You can call someone mean or heartless, I can say this is a way of being a realist. Technology is what i had to bring up, It messed up logic yet cast majority aside. The so called majority is being put down and the minority get the upperhand. One whom can get a hold of the internet is one whom can take control. Far too complicated, No ome knows nothing . That is why people make their own "story" and "logic" and "type" etc. The world was created of nothing , made one create something , The "something made was acknowledge as Law. Law is both evil and good. It uses the fact that evil is "always" wrong , to make everyone think they are secured.

Understanding the fact that humans are nurtured in different ways and havwe different natures. I know bad or good has no 100%. Simplicity is great and complications are interesting. Overall its what the world thinks of themselves that can change yheir view of classifying everyone
I prrsonally think that way

wow
Understanding the fact that humans are nurtured in different ways and havwe different natures. I know bad or good has no 100%. Simplicity is great and complications are interesting. Overall its what the world thinks of themselves that can change yheir view of classifying everyone
I prrsonally think that way

I would say good and evil is just an illusion. Morality is just sent from the most influential power in this case the Catholic church. So is man good or evil? Nether is the answer. Good and evil are ideas that different people have about different people. That's why its an illusion.

Really it depends on what you believe to be Good and Evil. For example killing an animal to eat it in order to survive might be considered Evil to a vegetarian, however they destroy the lives of numerous forms of vegetation only for their own survival, so then are they too considered Evil? It seems that by what most consider to be Good and Evil, nature itself in having to kill to survive is inherently Evil. But that might be a very extreme view considering we HAVE to destroy life in numerous forms in order to sustain our own. I personally do not believe man is inherently Evil or Good for that matter because what may be Good for humans for example consuming animals, is probably perceived as Evil in the eyes of those who would be eaten even though they have also consumed various lives to keep living. So basically we are not Evil or Good in my opinion, and it is ver difficult to be a truley Good person because most people put themselves first whether they believe they do or not, or they try to force others to be Good as well which as a form of Evil in and of it's own.

I think there is really no good or evil and that man was born essentially as a being who is alive, will keep being alive, and die eventually. Being evil or being good, I believe can be, traced back to relationships. What is man in relation to anything? What is man in relation to other men, to the things that other men do, or say, or use, or talk about: Different relationships can create different views on good or evil.

I haven't read the whole thread yet because it's sooo long :D so I hope that I'm not repeating what other people have said. It's good to see philosophy threads though. We need more of them.

I understand why people would think that we start off neutral and that was my first reaction too but I'm not that sure about it anymore. The thing that I've thought about a lot is if it's entirely our environment and factors in life that influence us that make us who we are. It makes sense to an extent because it's obvious that who/how you were raised has a huge effect on what kind of person you are but is that the only factor? That just doesn't seem right to me.
But I don't really like the idea of us having a nature either. That just means that whether we're good or evil was already decided and beyond our control as well. Unless we can change our nature maybe? Choice doesn't seem to exist too much because there are too many factors that influence us (we are too easily manipulable to have free will).

So in answer to what my opinion would be, it's that it's unique to the individual and our "nature" or whatever it is is influenced by an external factor (outside of this realm or dimension). What I believe (as much as an Agnostic believes something) is that we are kind of like projections of ourselves from a dimension or world that makes sense (because this one probably doesn't). That would mean that what we are like makes sense in that world and isn't just about the factors we were born into.

For those of you who know my thread on ideas that shouldn't exist it seems appropriate to ask, Should the idea of good or evil exist? Maybe the fact that these concepts exist gives everyone the wrong perspective on life. How different would it be without them? Should they have never existed or should they have just been more specific or clarified or something?

Well that's it for me for now. I hope I made sense and stayed on topic XD

You all have very strong opinions on this subject. It's amazing to see how humans think of certain things and what they believe in. I love humans ^_^ they have such interesting minds. Like believing in Gods and how they handle every day life. It's much too interesting for me to stop watching people hahaha. Well, I guess I should give my info.

It's true! At birth you seem much to innocent to show any signs of good or evil. But what about the information you collect inside the womb. Babies can hear from 13 - 16 weeks, that's how they learn who their mother and father is and that's also how they can recognise someone's vocal patterns because they were able to hear they're voice and they manage to remember that for the rest of their life. So what's saying they haven't learnt anything else whilst inside the womb?

Another thing is, and I laugh at this, have you ever been to a daycare before. There always seems to be one toddler or baby in there that is a complete bully to the other children. You can hear the parents judging the child sometimes.
"She's going to be a b***h in the future", "What a rude child, I can't see those habits changing any time soon".

HAHAHA!! He/She is a child xD

Then they begin blaming it on the parents sometimes.
"Bad family, bad children", "Poor child. He's probably like that because of the way he was brought up".

But everyone is unique. Physically and mentally. So what if it's just how people think of life. They say that "your surroundings influence you". That seems a little wrong, you could be brought up in a horrible family and turn out rich and friendly, poor and horrible, and many other ways. You have a choice of whether to choose to listen or ignore, so you can't really blame it on anyone else but yourself, no one pressured you into doing that, you weren't "brought up" that way, no one influenced you to do anything. You made the choice!

I could write a book about humans, HAHAHA!! Gosh, I love them :3 Such an interesting species. And as much as I want to ramble on about every aspect of a human, that would take too long :P soo I'm going to stop now and conclude it with this...

Whether good and evil exists or not, or it's the way you were brought up or you are just simply mental. How you turn out in life is up to you :P you're choice, it's how you see things and decide whether or not you want to do that. MMMM! :3 This makes me want to go and experiment the concept of good and evil and if it actually exists ^_^

Ah! :D Bye-Byee ;)

Good and evil, what defines each.
One's morals and conscience and the society they live in define this subjective terms. To each person, good and evil are different.
For example, if you live in a place where there is intense poverty, good would be to give them money, food, water, or shelter. However, seeing this as someone of a higher class, this would be only a normal occurance which isn't either good or bad.
Also, society will affect the way we see things. When some see freedom, others will see rebellion. The media has been able to sway our general opinion and thoughts about things throughout the world. They often choose to make things sound worse than they should. This was all done to gain more popularity. Personally, this is what I call evil. Some of you may disagree, but this is my opinion and you are entitled to criticise this and make your own opinions.
Overall, what I'm saying is that we are all different and subjective terms such as "good" and "evil" will mean different things to us.
We ALL get to CHOOSE how we see good and evil, but remember, some things that you see to be of a nature which is not as good or evil may be seen otherwise in the eyes of others.

asdf

Good and evil are just merely human thoughts based on the ethics that we were raised on or we gain through the experiences we have in life. I don't think that there is a wrong or a right I think there is just the way you want to live your life. People will say that whatever you believe is wrong just as some will say you're right but are you really wrong? It's just opinions there isn't anything set in stone to tell you that that is correct. So to simply answer your question no there is no difference between right and wrong since it is all just the ethics you've been raised on.

Man is no good or evil to me it matter about thought where were they were raised, who raised them and their thought. I mean humans could be evil because what we have been doing to this earth our home planet we haven't been taking care of it. You never know if god will abandon this will(Sunday without god). Humans could also be good you never know. This might be something what Mr.Conservative said.

You can argue quite well that there is no good or evil, and in turn one can also argue quite well that there is. I believe everyone to some degree has some sense of wright and wrong, don't care who you are, seeing a little girl beaten brutally raises flags. You can ignore good and evil, but you still get some sort of feeling, however small it is. Man is capable of becoming good or evil, despite background.

Not exactly what I am saying Candy, because from what I understood from what you said is that there is still a good and bad. I am trying to get at there is no difference between good and evil, its all ethical thinking from your point of view, the ethics are usually what define your morals and values in the world we live in.

Oh. Okay I thought they were the same because sometimes when I read some reply most of the tine it end up being the same thing Mr.Conservative. There is one more question to this "Why were we born in this world?" I mean if we were doing bad stuff the god should abandon us. Then we can't die or give any birth.

I've written on this topic a long time ago and from what I've read a bit until now is that people don't believe they are influenced by surroundings because they choose whether they become "bad" or "good" despite everything else around them. Well, it might be true. But thenyou have a kid brought up in an abusive family, with crappy friends and in a crappy neighbourhood, but he ends up being the exact opposite of all this (kind, helpful etc) because he "chose" to do so. My question to you is how did he come to this decision? For me, it's clear that still these surroundings helped him become what he became. He wanted to bring "good" in his world of "evil". Maybe he saw something on tv, or heard it from a man across the street or heard a song on sunny day, it doesn't matter. Our surroundings AND state of mind define us as humans. This is my opinion.

Depends on how you Define it!

Ubermench reporting in! Good? Evil?I think you mean slave morality.

>>480 what do you want to say by "slave morality"?

read on the genealogy of morality by nietzche brilliant stuff

>>481

"The master morality looks at itself and says "I'm good!" and then sees something different out the corner of its eye and says, "they're bad."

The slave morality on the other hand, looks first at something not like itself and says, "They're bad... no... not just bad but EVIL! Therefore I am good."
"

>>483 I see. Thanks for the info. So you mean thinking about ourselves in regard to others? But not in a narcissistic way?

I belive it depends on everything we are exposed to from the day we can first hear to the day we die

>///<

Candy how can we be so sure that God hasn't abandoned us already? From my perspective is more of God put us here and is watching us develop, with no sense of rules or morals for us to find our own and see how we evolve as a species.

i believe man is essentially good, why i believe this is man has always had the desire to make things better for the future,the desire to learn and protect.

Good and evil is determined by conscious thought, as far as I'm aware. You have to know that something's wrong before it can be counted against you, and the same is true for good. But an act is not truly one or the other unless you understand at a deeper level why it's good or bad.
Real evil? Understands that others are being hurt unreasonably by its action, and how painful it is, and how it will affect those involved... And does it anyway.
Sorry, I'm not exactly the most cheerful person in the room right now, am I?

Man was to begin with, a neutral race. We did what we needed to survive and not for good or evil purposes. Once we had been established as a dominant race, We began to make things easier for ourselves, again not for good or evil. Good and evil is a concept made by humans to describe the way a human tries to better humanity based on the support of the community. For example a human who believes that humanity should be comprised of only 20 people because it would cut back on pollution and the only way to achieve this was to kill everyone else, they would be viewed as evil because it is a bizzare solution.

Good and Evil are purely relative to the current world, and so the human race as a whole can never be good or evil, because the state of the world and the way the people think determine what is right and wrong.

Good and evil is irrelevant to the ubermench as what he does must therefore be good.

while a slave morality type would be more likely to think that doing nothing in most situations is the best response a master morality type would just do.

for good and evil a slave morality type would push the idea of being humble as good being nice as good following god (not necessarily) and thinking within him or herself as good. Nietzsche describes this as resentment but a slightly different definition to normal resentment as he uses the french equivalent there being no German word for it essential meaning to deal with the shitty situation under the beleif that you are actualy the good. this is just putting up with a shitty state of affairs. an example is I can deal with this shitty-ness put on to me because by sucking up and dealing with it my god respects me and by doing what the ubermench (or person doing "bad" things to me) he will be punished in the next life

kinda rambling so idk but theresome more info

Well it depends how you are defining good and evil, is this the good and evil that society portray. I think that good and evil are words that we as humans have made and that they don't exist outside of our society. I also think that humans are above all selfish animals we only care about what is around us and directly effects us, a good example of this is the classic who would you save your dad or a doctor.I think that man is neither good or evil its what other people perceive us to be.

What I am trying to say in this ramble is that good and evil is what others impose upon us rather than something innate to ourselves.

I don't believe people are either inherently good or evil. We make what we want of a situation, and our actions are examined and judged. What we may think is good another might find evil or vice versa. As humans we are just striving to live out some purpose and prove that we existed. We want to matter, and at times we realize what makes us stand out. From that we build who we are and how others see us. And even though others might view us incorrectly, we are ultimately our own judges.

I don't think that we can put a person into a category of 'good' or 'bad' as everyone has a different view of good and bad, besides who are we to judge? I do however believe that a new born isn't 'good' but 'bad' as they have no awareness of others and can be very selfish. However an adult can be more caring. (○ﾟε＾○)v♪

Think about it like this. As a whole, we are always wrong. Interpret wrong however you like but the moral is that when someone is right and others agree, essentially you are wrong on someone else's terms. You can't make a positive without two negatives. It's because we are wrong that we all live. So I believe man to be evil. Which is good, because if man were good we would never have discussions like this. What is a debate if we are all one mind set. Evil isn't your morality, it's variety.

Many people here are saying that man is neither good nor evil because the definitions of good and evil differ from culture to culture. for specific definitions of those terms this is true. however, if you look closely, you will see that the values of most cultures tend to look the same along some general lines. like one culture might say that am man can have one wife while another says he can have many, but both will agree that he should not just have any woman he wants. CS Lewis (author of the chronicles of narnia series) said that we all have some general sense of right and wrong and when someone goes against that they start making excuses to the person they wronged, if they didn't think it was wrong they wouldn't make an excuse. so because humans make excuses for going against what we know is right, that means we are wrong. and everyone does this, so everyone is wrong. so if it's between good or evil that makes humans inherently evil.

Man is neither good nor evil. That's what makes us human!

Man is neither good nor evil. That's what makes us human!

Man is neither good nor evil. That's what makes us human!

And that should do it.

>>499 Embrace simplicity!

You can't exactly lump us all together like that, but humans were born with the instinct to sin. You grow up having morals. The creatures, humans themselves are evil, but your inner soul depends on your standpoint.

Like a brick, it is neither evil or good, correct? It will turn bad once it was chucked through someone's window and therefore, shattering it. It had been for ill-use, and those who had thrown it had also committed a sin and mistake. Although, if you use it to build a home for those on the streets, it had been used for good correct?

Humans entities were born evil, and sin can not be erased on your own. Even with how many good things you commit, but like I said earlier, your soul can instill good on others. Those who repent and are forgiven of their sins are sure to be place along God in heaven and are considered good in their actions, but there are those who will disregard good and will continue sinning, even if they help out in good things. I know I'm sounding religious right now, so sorry.

In all, I think that the mortal human mind and body is evil. As for your soul, it is supposedly pure and sinless, until born into this world, where it starts to sin. Still the soul itself determines whether the person has good or bad intentions. So both. Mortally, man is evil. Spiritually, I believe that everyone has a good side. Not matter how evil they are.

~Baron

>>504 baron
well said baron

I know I couldn't have said it better then you baron

only the reptilians would know

the way i see it is, there is no actually right or wrong, good or evil, people base those things on the way they view them, a person good be labeled as evil and be good,and an action tooken could be labeled as right or wrong as well, so in the end there is nor riht, wrong, good, or evil.

Good and evil are all relative in the first place, what someone considers 'evil' may be 'good' to someone else. Therefore, unless you are talking from the viewpoint of some deity, as Oscar Wilde said 'It is ridiculous to divide people into good and evil' (- thank you Izaya for that quote).

Humans aren't essentiaally good or evil, at least, in my viewpoint. We just exist to do what we do. Good and evil, right and wrong, they're all just things that we ourselves label. It's hard to think of an answer, but I'd like to think that good and evil are just opinions which we base people and actions on.

pero hay una teoría de la relatividad subjetiva en la que el pensamiento que tenemos sobre algo es el contrario a lo que realizamos, o a lo que pensamos concientemente, haciendo que nuestro cerebro juegue con nosotros para modificar la realidad a favor del bienestar de lo primordial para que prevalezcamos.

What I've always believed is- how can anyone truly describe 'good' and 'evil'? Our evil and good is just what the world tells us it is. We can never think for ourselves and what we truly believe is right and wrong, only what others tell us it is. No one knows what is evil and good; like murder is considered 'evil' but its only because the government tells us it is; but yet we have war, why? because people like to kill other people because the world is a rotten place.

Man is meant to feel both, to Be both - Good AND evil.

Though many people have a hard time accepting this at a subconscious level... so it becomes a struggle through the remainder of their life, having to face themselves in the mirror every day - Constantly trying to be one and not the other, constantly trying to mask the opposite side of us, constantly balancing the emotions and thoughts that make us feel inferior, bad, tainted, because we were led to believe that essentially or fundamentally we started out good.

We started out as creatures that gave into their wants, desires, and it wasnt till we were taught different that we became different. and so we will fight time and time again Now, due to those innate desires within.

On the most basic levels, we are evil because we humans are built to survive at whatever cost is necessary. If you truely think you will die, you will do whatever it takes to survive(whether that means stealing from, harming, or even killing someone or something). Once your basic needs are met, then it gets more complicated. Considering a child is born into a life where all their basic needs are met, then their nature truely depends on their experiences. If their experiences are bad, they will grow to be evil, and the same for the opposite. There are exceptions. People can have brain disorders that make them "good" or "evil" by altering how they react emotionally to things, how they process information, and their judgement. This is also a hard question to answer because you have to consider why someone does something, and compair the weight of the action, to the weight of the reason behind it. Everything people do is for self gain in some way. Working people will be nice in hopes of being hired again, or a large tip. Regular strangers will be nice in hopes of a better afterlife(usually), or to gain respect. Friends will be nice to you so you will be nice to them, or in hopes to advance their relationship with you. At the very least, people are nice to feel good about themselves and be able to say "i'm a good person". So does doing good things make someone "good" if it is for self gain? I personally dont think so. So to answer your question, everyone is naturally evil, even if they do good things on a regular basis.

>>513 Wanting to survive - I wouldn't call that being evil.

I do agree about the last half of what you're saying. You're saying everyone is basically Selfish creatures despite whatever outer perception is displayed. Though again, being selfish, wanting to live, it ties together and doesn't make a person "evil"

It makes us a species. Like all the other species on Earth - that do the same. We're here to ensure our life, to see another day, for what purpose - who knows - maybe for the simply fact so the whole thing called life runs smoothly. . .

I feel as if it isn't as simple as were not good or evil, and my opinion are that we are here. That't it. In order to be good or evil, we need reason, may that be how were brought up and out morals, or something else, and I think humans feel as if we have some reason to exist, other than existing. But good and evil people do exist, and that is what is created of outside influence. Summed up, humans aren't just "not good or evil", because those ideas were created by humans, and all we really need to do is exist, everything else is up to choice.

>>515 I like your answer.

The term "evil" and "good" is a classification. In my opinion, its how one looks at it from where they are positioned or nurtured. There is no proper meaning to evil and good because everyone is different. You know how people nowadays say humanity is like a robot. Well thats a lie. Their very own network of influences tell them to do so. So im not very sure , i never saw the start of humanity.

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Humans all want to be good. No one wants to be bad, and if goodness is what most of us strive for, is it wrong to assume that humans are mostly all good?

Tell me what is good and evil? There is a different answer from each of us.

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I think that there is good and evil in humans, it just depends on which one you feed.

I think that there is good and evil in humans, it just depends on which one you feed.

I believe people start out in a neutral state. A state that is completely fueled by instinct. The world around us than affects how we act. There are of course exceptions to this such as genetic predispositions and even mental disorders that increase the odds of "bad" behavior. But, at the same time, people have a hard enough time deciding what good and/or evil even is; I feel like we should decide on what "good" and "evil" mean before we start debating which one describes people best. :P
Though, I tend to think everyone is different; maybe some people are just good and some just bad. It is a very good question; I mean, clearly it is, humanity has been asking about it for centuries if not millenniums. ^^

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I think good and evil are purely subjective thing. All good is at the same time evil. Even the action of a human being cannot classify oneself to either good or evil. A criminal might think what they did is right, when people think it's wrong. Maybe no one is right, maybe no one is wrong, it's entirely subjective, the choice is yours.

Things are the way they are the way you believe them to be. The reason why we call bad things bad is because the masses classify them as bad. But what if its the other way around? What if bad things are what are supposedly good? If that's the case, then killing would be legal and saving other people would be a crime. Basically, its all just a matter of one's perspective on how they see things, its just that most people thought that being kind to others is good, so it became a widely accepted belief that it is good. Well, from my point of view, we are neither good or bad at the beginning.

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There is no such thing as a fixed concept of "Good" or "Evil" for Man. My concept of Good can be other people's concept of Evil and vice versa. The conception of "good and evil" was created by mankind, so there will always be this chaotic discussion of whether man is good or bad. We simply cannot see Good or Evil as it is. The image of good and evil people see is nothing more than how our brains translate it. In other words, it's abstract, biased and subjective.

The world isn't black or white. Good and Evil go hand in hand where the shadow's edge meets the light's fade. In between lie all the beautiful colours of the sunset. If we try to see the black and white lines then we miss the exciting colour.

However when we're born we don't understand the black, the white or the colours. The people around us during this time paint this picture for us and teach us their understanding. If they show us things as black or white then we will see those things as we've been shown. It's only when we take a step back, forget our lessons and appreciate the colours of the sunset that we truly understand that humans are neither good nor evil... but just want to survive to see another sunset.

We are not "Good" or "Bad", it's just what humans call people and/or things. One isn't just "Bad", it's just the person making decisions that don't have the best income.

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A famous man once said, "Magic is not necessarily good or bad. It is a tool. It's dangerously, and irrevocably, neutral." Well, I don't know if he said that, but someone must have said something to that extent. I think humans are the same; it's just that humans use themselves as tools.

Let's see: a hammer is a tool, right? You can use it to create or to destroy. (You can also use it to create something bad or destroy something bad too, but that's not the point.) Well, a hammer can build something by constantly pounding the nail in. The nail then destroys a part of the wood just so it can settle in. The hammer has to repeat this process, over and over, to create a house. The hammer destroys a lot to build something.

I guess you could say that I envision humanity as the hammer. We destroy a lot, don't we? Farms and grasslands and trees are destroyed to make subdivisions or cities. So I think that we, like magic, is not necessarily good or bad. We're tools; we're smart tools! We have the capability to think, after all.

I think that humanity is dangerously and irrevocably neutral. The downside to that is that since we don't particularly care for either, we care for ourselves. I worded that wrong. It's not a "downside", per se, but the things that some people will do for themselves is horrible, and that's why they get called bad.

But they aren't necessarily bad. It's just that they aren't necessarily good either. It's my opinion, but I believe that it's simply what comes from being human.

'good' and 'bad' are just words.
compare humans to normal pets... like Cats. Cats have their own moral, like they were thought. you cant tell a Cat that it's a bad kitten, just because she scratched you and you didn't teach the cat that that's a no-no. Cats learned from the begining that they have to defense themselfes, and that's why they are hurting others. but they don't mean to be evil.
it is just like nature made us. Everyone has their own morals. And calling someone bad or good is actually very difficult. of course we humans have our rules, like 'not killing'. But if... for example a child learned that it has to hurt others... and never learned something else it's not bad if it hurts someone. It's just how the child learned it. it's another form of moral thinking.

Man is neither good or evil. Morality changes from one social epoch to another with very few remaining the same. What is moral also changes from class differences and cultural differences.

When man is born, they have no conscience, no judgement, no ways to speak lies or tell truths. They are essentially good by then. But once mans grows up, there is society. People who used to have been essentially good, until they were influenced by each other to impress one another. As there is hate and love, everyone has something unique about themselves, which segregate them from the rest. Like disorders, thinking, physical, adaption, etc. The fault of bad influence is not essential, but it masks up the good the person once has. Society has its good and bad ways, depending on how much it influences the person will decide. But from the very beginning man was essentially good.

But truly. It is man's choice to pick their own route and morals. It is rightfully their decisions. Basically you all are comparing every single individual the same, which is what makes this good or bad act, false.

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If we're talking about people as a whole, the conversation is on a continuous loop... Because as people, we are all capable of committing bad deeds as well as good. When someone is born into this world, they are born with a choice, that is to become good or evil. And the crazy part is that we have the ability to change our minds in the blink of an eye. Don't underestimate humans, or think you can put a limit on what they can do. It's sure is a crazy world we live in...

that ones hard to answer. There have been people who did evil deeds (ex: Adolf Hitler) and people who have done wonderful things (ex: Mother Teresa). Humanity as a whole wavers, but I think that each person is either dominantly good or dominantly evil. I also think that nobody can tell which one they are personally and shouldn't waste time trying to figure it out. SO yeah, those are my thoughts

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EVERYONE AT THIS SITE YOURE ALL DUMBASSES, YOU CANT SAVE THE WORLD, GUNS ARE GOOD, ANIME SUCKS, AND YOU ALL NEED TO UNDERSTAND YOU HELPED NO BODY YOU FUCKING FAGGOTS! PLEASE STOP TRYIN TO SAVE THE WORLD, CAUSE YOU ALL SUCK!

>>>546
at least we are trying to.
how will you know if you never try?
"EVERYONE AT THIS SITE"?
well you're in this site....stupid

Lol Owned!!!

how can I text the dollars on my phone?

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Well... that's is a hard question
First: I'm learning english so sorry for any mistake that I make writing here.
Second: I think that when someone is born, we just want to learn and survive, no morals, maybe some conscience, but not intentional. How we want to survive we are a little selfish, that's why no one else matters! We are not evil or good, we just regree to our primitive state, uncivil or consciousness.
Well that's it, I guess!
Again, sorry for any gramatical mistake that I did!
Xoxo

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Man, is essentially what it's brought up to be, for example if you teach a child the colour blue is called green they'll believe you and call it green, the same with good or evil if you are taught good is evil then you will think good things are bad and do the opposite. however their environment will also have an effect, for example if you are bullied and mistreated you will get angry and develop a complex where you will need to get revenge or become powerful to stop this sort of treatment happening to others, but that usual makes things worse, Hitler is a good example.

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>///<

Humans change over time, as the grow up. As a child, you aren't considered "good" or "evil". Though, I don't consider evil to be the right word, being a "bad" person fits better. I believe being good or bad depends upon what you do with your life. Your contributions to the world. I, myself, am neither "good" nor "bad". Perhaps you are the type of person who does good acts. But that also depends on your intentions. Do you do good things to make yourself look better? Or do you do good things because you like to help others? I suppose being "good" or "bad" depends somewhat upon intentions as well as actions. I'm going to end this now, I feel I'm contradicting myself.

Well, first we must determine what is good and what is evil. Without a standard higher than human opinion and cultural consensus, good and evil are subjective; only personal opinions. In that case nothing would be moral or immoral, just what works for the moment and what gives you pleasure. Mother Theresa who helped the weak and poor and Hitler who believed he had a mandate to weed the human garden both had good intentions. They both believed they were right. Do they end up in the same place when they die? You have raised an interesting question. How do we know what is good vs. evil or bad?

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In the first place, "bad" and "good" are just in our head. If someone looks good to you, then he's a "good" guy. If someone makes you think he's bad, then he's a "bad" guy. So the answer to your question can only be found in your own head, not another people's. Remember the saying: "People live believing what they want to believe."

There is no sucj thing as being 'good' or 'evil'. We are very selfish beings, but that doesn't make us 'evil'.
Example:
"A very famous lawyer, who was very rich and cared for his daughter more than anything. But, his daughter had an incurable illness. The lawyer refused to accept that there was no cure for his daughters illness. So, he made a lot of money to find a doctor who could cure her illness.
But, how did he get more amount of money than other lawyers did on a daily basis? The lawyer didn't care weather the person was innocent or guilty. He only cared about the amount of money they gave him. "The more you give me, the more evidence I can make up, so you don't get arrested." was what he said to each and every client.
For so many successes, he was paid so much money, he could hire more than 15 doctors at a time, but none of them could cure his daughter. He never stopped doing what he did to get more and more money for his daughter.
When people started seeing tat he was lying in court, they tried to contact him and go look for him at his house. But, when they got there, the man was already gone along with his daughter as they began to start over with the same process in other countries."
That man -no matter how evil he looked- was not 'evil' for being unjust and lying just to get money, but he wasn't 'good' because he did it all for his daughter. He was simply selfish and didn't think about his community. He didn't care about others, but what kept him from being inhuman, was that he did it all for his daughter and loved her with all his heart.
That' just the way us humans work, I guess. There is no such thing as 'good' or 'evil'. It's just some stupid thing we made up in our heads.

There is a great quote that I use to answer this question: The road to hell is slicked with good intentions. What may seem evil to the victim is likely seen as necessary to the person enacting the deed.

Okay, my reply is a little grim so fair warning. And i'm just going to say i think people are evil. I don't believe on 'good' people. Though we may be born 'neutral' i believe when we exit the womb the evil of this world 'infects' us. And we cant resist the temptation that the evil of this world brings. And everywhere i look its evident people are evil. Myself included. This world is screwed up and the people living on it are no exception. Now u might think " what about all the people that *insert good deed here*." Well yea there are people who do more or less 'good' things, but that doesn't effect our total moral alignment. The bad outweighs the good. And then there are the hypocrites who do 'good' things just for the reward or image it gives them. So ending statement: people are evil, all of us.

the world is like a poison and it will infect us,everybody is evil,or the least normal,everybody might be twisted and crazy,its just that youy can't see,in reality there are many who loves competing and for the sake of it,turn evil,shoving you away or some other deeds.Its the way of life and you can't just wish for some particular baby to be a goodwill angel till death.

The human soul is the canvas that life paints upon.
All masterpieces start with nothing end with a completed work.
It's up to you to decide how it turns out. :^)

Man is not good nor evil. We all the potential to do both.

We have good intentions but we are all truly evil. We do what we think is right; it does not matter if it is to help yourself or someone else, no matter what we do we hurt others. Yes I know what you are thinking "sounds like bullshit" but every for every good thing we do we also cause harm. Don't believe me? Look at our world today, and all the bad things happening, whether it be a direct or indirect cause; it will always have a negative affect. Despite all this and how much evil we may cause, the person decides whether their hearth is good or evil.

I like the "good and evil wolf" theory from some aboriginal community. No one is born neither completely good or evil, but everyone has the "good and evil wolves" fighting inside you and the one you feed will win.

I like the "good and evil wolf" theory from some aboriginal community. No one is born neither completely good or evil, but everyone has the "good and evil wolves" fighting inside you and the one you feed will win.

^

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essentially evil

well there is the whole idea behind psychology that Freud and Maslow came up with but that's a lot of stuff that you yourself should look up in your own time. when the learning of whats right and wrong comes into place I think of Operant Conditioning. if you don't know what that is Im sure you know what Positive Reinforcement is and its apart of Operant Conditioning. For Positive Reinforcement, if a desired behaviour takes place, you reward the person with something they want. For Negative Reinforcement, if a undesired stimulus is around, you don't like it, so you remove it e.g. if a kids being annoying you send him/her to their room. Then there is Punishment, where an undesirable behaviour take place, you punish the person by providing an undesirable stimulus e.g. the ol' stereotypical female who ignores you when you done something wrong. wait thats a bad example coz guys generally don't know if they've done something wrong. But yeah, vice versa could also happen, like doing something good but being punished, or doing something bad and being rewarded. When it comes to this topic, whether we're good, neutral or evil comes down to what we experience and learn. Nobody is born evil unless you mother or father has sustained damage to their frontal lobe on the brain, in which you could inherit there thought process and not think properly and just go crazy violet on everything like Shizuo but then again, its not your fault, Baby u were born this way ;)

in my opinion...
we were born neutral at first....
all of us aim to be good..wether acheiveing it by doing bad....or doing good...but essentially....man is good...and evil...we are not perfect...you cannot see good without those being evil.....and we cannot be evil without those being good....because our world isn't perfect...and evil people are a little good too...cuz they help us see and appreciate who are good among us....soooo we are all good in every way :)

some are good some are evil
good and evil are objectiv
the end

I don't think there is such a thing really as a good or evil person. when you think about it a killer most likely thinks what he is doing is good and a person who does not kill thinks killing is wrong so in the end the meaning of good and evil differs on the persons personal view a better example Hitler thought killing the Jews was a good thing but I think it was evil so in the end there is no permanent meaning to the words good and evil everyone thinks there good

that is so true, Good and Evil depends on people's point of view and bellief.

We are neither good,nor evil.This is , in my opinion , a primitive concept to classify people.Nobody is 100% good or 100% evil.Both terms are too vague and can't fully include the complexity of each individual's personality.
I believe that we are born neutral,then we grow up with the society's morals and point of views.It's up to us if we decide to embrace them totally or partially.

I'll just leave this quote that most of you already know probably:

"It is absurd to divide people into good and bad. People are either charming or tedious." - Oscar Wilde, Lady Windermere's Fan.

It really depends on the person and how life affects them, because a criminal who did so many bad things in his life could one day realize what he did was wrong and change their ways to good. Someone good could end up being a evil person. It all has to do with how life affects them.
Also, society as a whole is probably evil. All the propaganda seems to have a hold on people and they decide that whatever everyone else is doing is good, so if killing people is the trend right now, they'll do it. It's just a misunderstanding that people should be themselves.
Man is evil in the sense that they are killing each other for no good reason instead of working it out, they kill the planet,they do a lot of bad things to themselves.
But then you can look at it in the perspective that man is good because they can help cure people, they do try to help the planet, and they do try to help themselves and others around them.
I guess it would depend on your perspective. No one's entirely good or evil, but you can tell when someone is more good than evil and vice versa.
So I guess what I'm trying to say is it all depends on the person.

In my oponion humans are vicious. They enjoy seeing other people suffering or else. But in an other hand they are good. Of course the way a child is educate is very important and it will affect him later. To know if man is good or evil all depends on the begining, the reason of an act, but behind that reason is the understanding, they are too many things that people won't take the time to understand. At birth we see the world by our own eyes, we're just a very little particle of the world, if a group of people are good or evil, there are some reasons. Man is as vicious as good since his childhood that's how it is.

In my opinion, humans have an inherent attribute of greed. They originally needed it in order to survive, in times when technological advancements were few and mankind was in a far, far less advanced state. This greed told them that they needed and more and more of material things, like food water, shelter, even luxuries. Having more and better things than your neighbors meant the insurance of your survival over theirs. Now that we are in an age where many of these "needs" are readily provided for us, that greed remains. I'm not saying that every person is selfish and arrogant, or that I am exempt from this, but that we can only deny this inherent greed through empathy and self-discovery.
I also believe that as humanity progresses, people in general are becoming more accepting of all different lifestyles and ideas. There's always gonna be another injustice, but we're headed the right way.

Humans aren't anything essentially, except for being empty, with a hunger for information. It depends on their environment how they grow up to be, how their value system will look after a certain number of years, when relevant experiences are made. Also their interpretation of good and evil will depend on that. I think there's no sense to discuss such a question without a clear definition of what good and evil is, which doesn't exist. Everyone interprets it different depending on the environment they grew up in. Japanese slurp for example, it's normal in their culture, while for us Europeans it's rude to do it. Or the amazon headhunters find it shameful to have less shrunken skulls taken from victims, while technologically advanced societies imprison you for killing...at least theoretically.

Humans are related to destruction. No matter what humans do, they need to destroy something. We need to destroy something in order to create something, we cut trees to build houses, we kill animals to sell meat, we destroy forests for buildings. People destroy each other for many reasons: it can be because of money, of vengeance, of love, of hatred, of misundertandings, and so much more. Humans seek power and yet they know they can't control it. No one help someone just for the pleasure of helping someone, we always want something in return because we always think about us first before thinking about the others. Even the "kindest" man on Earth helps someone because "it makes HIM happy to do so".
So are humans good or bad? They are bad, I could even say humans are monsters on the inside. But we have something that helps us contain this evilness: intelligence. Just look around, those who only answer to their impulses tend to become violent easily or do bad things, those who use their brains, on the other hand, think twice before doing something bad.

"We are the hero of our own story."-Mary McCarthy
To me, this quote answers your question, we will never know what good or evil really is because in our minds we are the best. So we are neither good or evil...

well we are born good. but due to the absence of goodness in our heart caused by the turmoils and events that trigger our defense mechanism to help our self cope-up with life, evil is created.

P.S. reply to me if you want to know or talk about this topic more. thanks for this post.

I don't think the question should be, "Is man good or evil." I think that the question should be, "Will you be good or evil?" You can't just answer a question like that and ask the general public without knowing what they've done. I have observed humans for a long time. I have met good ones, and some bad ones. So my answer is: It is up for you to decide, not just you but all of mankind, every individual chooses whether they'll be good or bad.

It is true we all start off good. But in the end, all of us will be evil. By the time we die each and every one of us will have committed an evil deed. It is said that before they die, the average person will have told more than one lie. As lies are defined as a sin, they are evil. I think we are all evil. We all do bad things, some worst than others. However, being evil is human, natural and therefore good.

I'm a pagan so in my practice there is no such thing as good or evil we believe than. There is only positive and negitive energy therefore man is neither good nor evil man is considered neutral in that standing. We may have a mix of good and bad in us but it doesn't make us good or bad. Think of it like yin and Yang. In that sort of sence

I really don't see it that way, to me it is more of, "What is good or evil?" In the end they are just words used by man as a label. Only humans have this concept of something being one way or the other like this. Nature has no judgement. But man came from nature, so what does that make us?

Man uses these labels every day on things we are familiar with to identify how or what they are. But does man really need to identify itself? We all clearly see what we are, and that is all we are. So if we already know what we are what does labeling it accomplish? Are we trying to show something about us to others? We already have adjectives like Kind or Mean for that.

Ok, I was getting a little off topic there and I would rather not keep going since I think I'll just end up with existentialism. To answer the question, you are asking about man in the simplest state, being good or evil. At the most basic level, man is a part of nature and nature has no concept as I have said. As a result I feel human labels cannot describe it and is ultimately neither.

Good and evil are truly subjective thoughts used by humans to make things more understandale. It is all a matter of perspective. While a military leader who bombed a city in order to win the war and bring peace is a good hero yes? But what if you are from that city and your city was the one bombed how dare that evil foreiner! See its just a matter of perspective nothing is truly black and white the whole world is just a big spectrum of grey. and most of the times people we would consder evil think what they are doing is just putting another layer onto the spectrum. Or what about someone doing something good like saving puppies but their motivations were to become a hero and get praised but didnt care for the puppies at all. more and more grey areas. We can label things good and evil for our convinence but one is truly good or evil but a mix of the two even if its more one than the other especialy by ones own subjective mindset.

I'd like to say man essentially is neutral. God and evil are man-made consturcts created with the preservation of life. While this is viewed as a good thing, it is only influenced by the sense of morality forced upon and taught throughout generations. There is no evil, and there is no good. There is only action. Good and evil are simply caused by morals taught to you to take on. Without these lessons being taught to you as a child, right from wrong, good from evil, there is only neutrality. Action without a particular moral judgement, only the desire of a specific outcome.

You see we are as good as monsters and demons if you put it in my way. Us human said or made up that all monsters and demons are evil. How can you say that? If one is evil or bad it doesn't mean everyone is. If that was the case then shouldn't we all be evil and corrupt. I believe that someone should be characterized if their evil or not by their causes to do something. For example: if someone robs a rich person and uses the money to feed poor people, would that mean that the person is evil because they did something illegal by stealing? No right! So therefore I believe that a person can only be evil or good by their intentions behind doing whatever they did.

I concur with the other's statements, which is primarily based on the idea of moral relativism; the idea that morals changes relatively from person to person. In the end, whether man is good or evil depends on the perspective that you take on (as provided by Kodoku). But personally, my stance is similar to Hayato in that humans are neutral. If you are interested in learning more about this idea of neutrality, you should research Thomas Hobbe's concept of 'tabula rasa', or blank state. Although the word 'tabula rasa' is not the name for his idea, it is commonly associated. As for the idea itself, in lamen's terms, it expresses the idea that humans are born as a blank state, therefore neither good nor evil when a person is born.
It is also important to consider that the idea of good and evil is extremely subjective in that they are based on the values and ideas of a given society; it is neither natural nor innate. It is something that we, humans, created in order to categorize things into simple groups. Although I consider this a bad habit (I think we should seek to see the full 'grayness' of situations as things are never as simple as they appear), it does make it easier to understand situations and circumstances.

Everyone seems to see good and evil differently. Some people believe that something like stabbing somebody is perfectly fine and mabey even a good thing, while others may think the exact opposite. This comes to the conclusion that wars go on because of different views of good and bad (religion is a big part of this too), does that mean everyone is evil because we are all going at war with each other? I mean, again, war could be either a good or evil thing depending on who you are and the situation.

Sorry, my answer is quiet similar to a lot of people's

I personally do not believe in such things as right or wrong or evil and holy i believe in actions and the consequences that follow.i believe good and bad or morals in general are a form of control to have others live by a certain guide lines for example:if someone has a shop of the employes will have rules ad guide lines they have to follow.now that is an example of right and wrong another example is:when someone drops a bag of gold into the sea when bumped into then the person who wanted that gold may be displeased and say he screwed up giving a fine line on where you messed up or not.so to simplified this its just something some guy made up to get others to live by and it was taken and built on up until even now thus meaning that no one is good or bad or evil or holy no matter what they do you may only choose to look at it that way.

Assss hoe

The Mankind defined the words good and evil...so a subjective opinion of a society, person etc.

I would say we are not bad or good, we are just ´´animals´´ in a world, an universe, nothing else ^^

It may sound a little bit pessimistic^^ sorry for that, it does not mean that i hate mankind...i just tried to answer your question objective.

PS sry for mistakes ^^

Regards SimulaX

The concept of "good" and "bad" is subjective. Different people and groups of people have different morals, so what one person sees as doing the right thing, another person might see as barely human. It really all depends on your point of view.

It is impossible for people to be either good or bad, since our world is perfectly balanced. Any person at all is not completely good or bad. Sure, they might a little more of one, but still. Now apply that to the billions of people on Earth. All the people who are a bit more good than bad balance out the others, and vice versa. This includes personalities, actions, and everything about humanity (more or less). In fact, you could probably say the same about any other species.
Also, it depends on your views on good and bad. What is morally good to one person might not be the same to someone else. To conclude, humans are too different to be viewed as one for something philosophical

Wow this thread is filled with so many opinnions, I feel sad about being unable to read all of them.
Anyways, I am going to add mine to the collection.
From my point of view, mankind is not good nor evil, it is tainted. There are so many influences in our world, we become overloaded with opinnions,morals and ethics which might not even fit our own believes. However, all these add valuable features to what is called being human. If men were essentially good or evil, they would be pure, and I do not think that being pure is something admirable. Of course this is not to be interpreted as the character trait but as a state of conciousness. To make an example, a library without books would have but one purpose: being filled. If that library gets filled with fantasy novels or soldier's biographies depends on their donators and the librarian. In this case, the donators are to be interpreted as outside, and the librarian to be personal influences.
Long things short: the state of humanity depends on so many influences that one can not consider them to be good or evil, much more one could define them as valuable.

Wow, what a question to ask, and these answers! Wow!

To put in my own two cents worth, I don't really believe 'Good' or 'Evil' actually exists, because the same as things like worth and value, these are based purely off of perception. These are a human only trait.
You could always go with what a majority of religions say, which is certain things are good, certain things are bad... which then leads on to the law which, I know in certain country's are actually based on/in the 10 commandments from the Christian Bible; However when it comes down to it, these were all written by humans, from the perception of certain people which others just decided sounded beneficial and so followed along with it. Same goes for morals, its made up of whatever seems most beneficial to certain people at the time.
Now, this might not be something that people like to hear, but the entire human race, whether it is subconscious or not, works on benefit. For example, why do you work? because if you work you get money, which lets you live. Why do you go to school? Because you can learn things which will help you in the future. Why are we nice to people? Because we want people to be nice to us in return. Every action has an opposite and equal reaction. Everything we do has some kind of benefit or consequence to it.
No good or evil, just benefit brought by perception

Certainly both exist, but no one person is "good" or "evil". There are always reasons why people do things and it sometimes to others, a person may be simply "good" or "evil" based on another human's actions as a result from not coming to a mutual understanding to another person. Just as hurting someone is "evil" to the person being hurt or another person observing, hurting someone may be "good" to the person doing the action whether it is because the other person deserved to be hurt or that the person's moral is to hurt anyone that crosses their way. I am not condoning violence here, but we must let people explain their actions. Most of the times, we fail to see the true "good" in a person because we are blinded by the seemingly "evil" actions that he or she has just as how we can't determine the "evil" in a person because all they are doing seems "good". Without being that person or completely understanding them, there is no way for sure that we can tell what that person is.

Unless we all understand each other, we are going to have our own biases that shape a person's perspective of another. I would like to think that everyone has a little of both inside of them each with a different balance of "good" and "evil".

Remember, guys, that no one is perfect therefore we cannot be perfectly one or the other.

our morals develop off of what we learn to be emotions, happy=good sad or angry=bad. in conjunction with that factor it's more or less how a person develops that creates their alignment. if you are born and raised in an environment where you are separated from everyone else your morals develop differently than someone who is not detached from interaction. the concept of "good" and "evil" also lies within action; you can go through both previously stated scenarios, but if you end up with that person (from either spectrum) just staying in one spot and not making interaction outside of a certain radius then most likely they will not have a chance to do something "good" or "evil". however once they have space enough to interact with others or objects, those actions (mind you depending on the object or person in question) will define it. per say someone walks up to someone else and punches them dead in the face, the person being hit can factor the outcome all together. if they don't know each other and are unfazed by this happening, chalk it up to a misunderstanding. if the puncher is enraged by the person being hit, obviously there is a motive, again linking to the punched. the person being punched, if they had done something to cause anger in the other, then they can be classified as "evil" if they did nothing and are sad; yet the puncher is happy from the act. they fall to good while puncher is evil. in all honestly it falls down into the motto of philosophy itself, "it's a matter of perspective."

Well I do not have the time to read all previous answers since well, there is quite a few... so forgive me if I'm just repeating something previously stated!

First of you have to consider the terms evil and good as something that is not obvious but rather something we have been taught.
Going off of what I have been taught as good and evil I have to say that all humans are born evil. Humans are greedy and selfish at heart. If there were absolutely no personal consequence to stealing, do you think you would not take all which you coveted?
I really would like to believe that humans are better, that we are infact good! but rationally speaking I do not think it is the case.

I believe that man is neither good nor evil. In fact, "good" and "evil" don't exist. They are merely based on our own perceptions of it and our own morals. What one person may consider to be a great act of evil, another may consider it morally good. Man can neither be defined as good nor evil as neither logically exists. They're nothing more than our own perceptions of what should be done and what shouldn't be done, so to speak. Man simply exists, and really our goal in life, essentially, is to survive. It's our natural instincts, and most of what we do rides on that. Only you can decide for yourself whether what we do is essentially good or evil, based off of your own morals.

But, yeah - sorry if I rambled.

People always seem keen to point out that good & evil are only human concepts so it can't really be measured whether man is one or the other. But the reason these words exist in the first place is because there are societal standards of good and evil. If you believe society has a fairly reasoable sense of right and wrong, even if you disagree with it, I think it's fully reasonable to judge by that standard.

Umm... I'd say that we were born neutral. But since you asked if man are essentially good or evil, in my opinion, we are neither.
That good or evil thing is just our perception of our actions. If we feel that we are right, we say its good; if not then its bad.But we are indeed influenced by others. In religious beliefs, man are initially sinners but not evil. But in my logic, we are divided into groups...those who are the evil and good.
Entirely,in this world,many are thought to be evil... very few are good. If the
y base on reasons, one would understand which group one man from the other is.
Are mywords jumbled?

From a psychological perspective, all human's base personalities are decided before birth. Depending on their parent's biological background and then later by tentative or permanent habits. We can try to observe the real contribution of either nature or nurture. It has been a constant struggle in this field to decide which is the main cause to personality, but in the end both make a large contribution. So are people born blank? No. If both your parents are pessimistic and have bad tempers, you will more than likely as well have it. Can you be influenced to not act like that as much? Generally, yes. Good or evil? Let's do a study.

Nothing is decided when you are born, thats a load of s***, it's how you grow up. But people are smart and so are bound to be evil, but it depends on what perspective you're looking at; no one will do something because they think it's evil, they do what they think is right.

I think the human isnt good or evil so is a form to view the diferents faces of the humans.

So to come back to this topic 3 years later hahah ok hmm so... What? Smart = Evil, nahh it again comes down to what qualities we have given the words.. After 3 years in development and now being of sound mind, and 22 at last i am not bound, by any one thought (based on sentiments).

Everything whether it is language, or "good or evil", is all quantifiable in the scope of evolution and "survival of the fittest". Our society as it develops, also always has their outliers, and if the outliers become accepted or looked up to as an accepted way of thinking, then the ideas of good and bad change and are skewed (not so different to the balance of dominant and recessive traits). Let's take alcohol consumption,

I myself partake in alcohol only social, to see people truly able to open up and free themselves in social interaction and share conversation with those who usually won't express themselves so freely. Alcohol though is seen as bad in several middle eastern countries, one due to the religion, and two due to the society itself not really providing an avenue for the acceptance for it being a "good thing". In Iran however it is seen as casual a drink as it is in some western places, heck check out prohibition and how america as a whole decided on liquor ban, then recanted it.

Examples can be sighted for prostitution, pre-merital sex, and other "evil" things, that in one country it has been deemed as evil, but not so in another country... It is all just semantics and the meanings given to words, and pushing the bar of "normalcy" without resistance.


Here in Philippines I am doing my college and I have noticed several wars between what is acceptable an unacceptable to society here.. Sinulog is a festival in Cebu for the patron baby jesus (santo nino) brought over by the spanish, we celebrate januaryish but also during that time, it is the biggest festival in Cebu and arguably the biggest in Philippines, and at night time, sex clubs are bustling, and people drinking and partying and all sorts of "devilment" goes on, but lol the society doesn't mind because it brings money, tourism, and... mostly people just turn the other cheek...

....semantics, and survival of the fittest, if your opinion is adamant enough and people want to back you and you are seen as a "fit" member of society still, you may sway what is good or bad.

GOOD AND BAD ARE JUST SYNONYMS OF "ACCEPTED IN SOCIETY OR NOT"

When it comes to it what are we born as, um that answer comes down to what aspects of us are nurtured, and being the good girl bad girl.. When are we punished, or feel punished... again survival

The terms 'good' and 'evil' are both subjective, both invented by humans. We base such terms off our morals, and our morals are determined by our environment, so, in the end, good or evil is up to us. Therefore, man can be both good and evil, or neither, depending on how you personally view the world...

We r all nothing in the eyes of god so y worrie about evil or good my lovely humans

This experiment decided it for me: http://www.whatevo.com/post/An-artists-interesting-social-experiment-DB34608A900CE7B3

Marina Abramovic is best known for her performance pieces, in which she tries to explore what is possible for an artist to do in the name of art. One of her pieces was akin to a "trust exercise" in which she told viewers she would not move for six hours no matter what they did to her. She placed 72 objects one could use in pleasing or destructive ways, ranging from flowers and a feather boa to a knife and a loaded pistol, on a table near her and invited the viewers to use them on her however they wanted.

Initially, Abramovic said, viewers were peaceful and timid, but it escalated to violence quickly. "The experience I learned was that … if you leave decision to the public, you can be killed… I felt really violated: they cut my clothes, stuck rose thorns in my stomach, one person aimed the gun at my head, and another took it away. It created an aggressive atmosphere. After exactly 6 hours, as planned, I stood up and started walking toward the public. Everyone ran away, escaping an actual confrontation."

This piece revealed something terrible about humanity, similar to Philip Zimbardo's Stanford Prison Experiment or Stanley Milgram's Obedience Experiment, both of which also proved how readily people will harm one another under unusual circumstances.

This performance showed just how easy it is to dehumanize a person who doesn't fight back, and is particularly powerful because it defies what we think we know about ourselves. I'm certain that no one reading this believes the people around him/her are capable of doing such things to another human being, but this performance proves otherwise.

I think every person in this world is capable of good and evil. Its up to them which one they want to imbrace.

Man is both good and bad.But it's the individual's choice on witch path they want to focus on.

From my experience with the world and interactions with strangers, friends, family, etc, I have found man to be naturally evil as he follows his wants and needs more than the needs of the people surrounding him. He looks at the world to gain status and power for his own well being and survival.

my answer.... good and evil are man made expressions, therefore there is no such thing as good or evil. Killing something could be considered as evil however, one could argue it's nature.

I feel man is naturally evil, mostly because we only tend to care about our own kind and kill things on a daily basis.

added onto my answer from above.... good and evil are labels put on things that are considered right and wrong, however who decides what is really right and wrong.

i feel that man is grey neither black or white we are all evil in our own right. we do things that most can see as wrong but in different lights can be viewed as right. in my opinion evil and good are just a point of vew

we are both good and evil though we may not believe it is true but we are both vice and virtue... sweet and sour hubris and deceit

i think we choose to be good or bad but also to classify ourselves as such. that ability to CHOOSE one or even both is what makes us human.

There's no such thing as being essentially good, same with being essentially bad. I'd have to agree that man is really just grey. It's all based on their morals and belief.

Essentially man is bad. He grows up and is taught the difference between right and wrong. Each person will choose which path to follow later, but in the beginning man is 100% bad. I also believe there is no such thing as grey.

There is no such thing as the words "good" and "bad" in this world, you may think you are one of it but you are just mistaking what's real

The idea of good and evil are all subjective, so neither. These are concepts humans set up for themselves.

i agree with 633 and 634 someone finally gets it

Personally it annoys me to see that people still use the words 'good' and 'evil' to describe things and people. Plus, most people define it by the law or structural concepts that make no sense with defining such a general term, 'le~.

We are neither good nor bad until taught to be one or another.

Babies are born with no concepts of good and evil, although all humans have the sense of pleasure and pain inherently: if it causes pain, we don't do it, if it causes pleasure, we seek for ways to do it. We share this trait with all animals, specially to the sociable animals, that consider pain inflicted in others as something they shouldn't do to maintain the group's well being.

The difference between us and the other animals is that we're rational, and this causes us to create morals. Morals change from society to society, family to family... In some societies, for example, it is more acceptable to be gay, bisexual and such, whereas others do not view it so peacefully. So, as many said before, good and evil are concepts that differ between people and are no more than imaginary boundaries.

As mentioned before too, Hitler for instance is an example of what can go wrong morally in a human being. He was educated to be antisemitic, he wasn't born a monster. What we want to paint him is only a mask to make us feel safe. We want him to be a monster, someone who only did bad things all the time since he was born, but we forget that as everyone, he was a child who laughed and liked animals. We forget he fell in love. We forget he had wishes, and liked art really much. We forget he could be gentle sometimes towards the ones he love. We forget he could love in fact. And we do this because we don't wanna admit that he wasn't a demon, he was human, as all of us, and at any moment, someone could do the same as him and unleash all the chaos and destruction he did. This person could be anyone. Maybe me. Maybe you.

As mentioned before, there is no such thing as good or bad.
It is something that humans created themselves to be able to judge other people. So basically the question if humans are good or bad can lead to the question of how we "judge" people to fit in one of the two categories.

E.g. why is a normal civillan who murdered someone for whatever reasons bad when soldiers who kill many people an the battlefield considered as good? - Sometimes even heroes. It is the same act done to humans that may have become friends under different circumstances. So why is killing for a country considered good when killing for the benefit of a single person or family is considered bad?

In my opinion it is impossible to "judge" with good or bad, there are a lot of different possibilites to "judge" as there is not only black and white.

Thus humanity can neither be considered good nor bad. And looking at each individual you can say that there is no one without guilt and how this guilt is judged differentiates from person to person. Some would consider lying worse than stealing wheras others would "judge" it the other way round.

There is no real answer to this question, as each individual would answer it somewhat different.

There is no "good" or "evil". These are terms only humanity understands. Is a dolphin evil? They also rape their own kind.. What about gorillas or squirrels, are they good or evil?
If you kill a man in war, you're a hero. Kill one out of war, you're a murderer. The people who are perceived as "good" are just the victors in the war. So, "Bad" things can also be considered "good". More examples: White lies, bluffs.. Even things like the 7 deadly sins, can be "good" for a person. Without sloth, one might overwork oneself. Without greed, one might not be able to support their family. Having no pride means one has no self confidence. Without Envy, there'd be no competition, and all those new tech wouldn't be invented...
For more info about the psyche of this, you could research the Id, ego and super-ego.
For more on philosophical, you could research Hobbes, Locke, Rousseau and see their opinions on if man is good or evil.

I think evil as a concept was created as a way to explain the less desirable qualities of human nature. LaVeyan Satanism kind of explains it in the Satanic Bible.

People very bad, also good.

>639 reading your thing about the neccesity of sin (like no pride=no self confidence) are you referencing Hyouka?
on the topic @ hand, man is, without external interference an evil being. to be evil is to be immoral, or without moral, a concept brought about by humanity as a social collective. Therefore if a human is not molded into a Good person, he is Evil for not being carved into society's vision of a good person

Both I'd said it just varies from person to person. I felt it was wrong to steal at age 4 but my buddy had a different opinion. I wasn't taught not to steal I just had a thought that I would hate to lose something, however like I said my friend didnt think the same. In the end people are just people.

Well it all depends on your definition of evil, just because a lion hunts a gazelle for food make him evil? no it's survival. There are some people who just slow the process for humans to survive by murdering and stealing but some of them do it in cold blood. You must always remember that we are animals and we have instincts as other animals.

Man is evil, because we're the only species with a sense of morality.

It's all just a matter of perspective. A good example of this is war. While I think all war is evil and unnecessary many others think it's vital, needed, or even fun. Selfishness could be considered evil at many times, yet it's an important tool for survival. I think that there's no way to measure good or evil accurately, and thus there's no way to label humans one way or the other.

It's usually easy for me to tell apart the harmful people from the neutral or good though.

Neither. Good and evil are both subjective. They hold no value. Which is why most people will say things such as "murder is wrong" yet they will justify the casualties of war by making the enemies look like monsters. They only want to believe they are "good". Which is something I find disgusting.

Moral nihilism, isn't it beautiful?

Man is essentially evil because of sin. We were once good until the fall of man in Genesis 3. Every single one of us has sinned and we will continue to do so until we are with God in heaven. So what about the good that we do? For Christians, we can confidently say that the good works are a result of the Spirit at work in our lives. We are a new creation and the same power that raised Jesus from the dead is at work in us to produce faith, obedience, endurance and all sorts of other good stuff.
So is man inherently good? No, but we can have a great hope in Jesus Christ who is good and one day will make all things new.

Well, in my opinion, good and evil are both a matter of perspective. What is essentially 'good' to person (or done with good/non-malicious intent) could still be considered an act of evil to another. In truth, I believe man to have no generalized label of good or evil. I simply view man as blind. Despite having no intent on doing it, man, in advancing towards the future and trying to be the ultimate race, is bringing its own destruction upon itself and everything around it. Face it, man destroys a lot. Man destroys without intending to. This, however, does not make man evil. There are 'good' people and 'evil' people everywhere. To generalize all of man as evil would be to leave no room for consideration of those who do good.

If our actions define who we are, either evil or good, then how can we essentially be generalized as either of those when humanity is so diverse and each individual has a separate set of beliefs and goals? The truth is simple. Man is neither good nor evil. Just like everything in existence, it just is. There exists the same amount of potential to do good in our hearts as there is to do evil, regardless of what we are more inclined to do. Man neither exists to do good, nor does it exist to do evil. We are born to follow our own paths. To each their own.

Much like asking, what is the purpose for the existence of man? There really is no definite answer, except to say that fhere is no definite answer. As I said, to each their own. Evil or good. Let's avoid generalizing, and leave room for improvement.

If you bothered to read all of that, it is much appreciated ^^. I wish you luck in finding a satisfactory answer to some of life's most complicated, or in some cases most simple, questions. (And please ignore any grammar mistakes as I am writing this at 2 am lol)

-652
Sin would be the human nature I referred to.

“It may help to understand human affairs to be clear that most of the great triumphs and tragedies of history are caused, not by people being fundamentally good or fundamentally bad, but by people being fundamentally people.” - Sir Terry Pratchett

I think we were all born good, but society made us evil.
There is a Vocaloid song called "Clean Freak" which basically explains exactly what I feel on this matter

> If a deity exists, good/evil exists and is objective, we can't determine it due to lack of contact with said deity.

>If a deity does not exist, humans determine good and evil, which makes it subjective and arbitrary.

Bad, we are all born to be selfish, it's in our genes. Man will always, and forever, take, kill, or sacrifice, is it means a better chance of surviving.

I don't think its a matter of whether we are essentially good or evil, but instead more along the lines of what we choose to be. I believe that we can accomplish whatever we want in this life, and that we have no boundaries. The trick is being able to accept whatever consequences come our way as a result of making those choices. Some people chose the wrong things and either did or didn't think about the consequences afterwards. And naturally, the same can be said for the people who made the right choices.

This is just my opinion of course, but I think its favorable to everyone who wants to believe that there are no restrictions in this world.

People's answers in that thread are seriously the same ones in this one.

(sorry for my bad english, i'm french)

According to me, every humans are good. Let me explain : All humans think to be right and acting for the good things, in his opinion he will INVEVITABLY be RIGHT. However, it's possible that this one recovers in question and doubt of himself.

But it's always the same thing ! If the human doubt of himself, it's for be sur that what he do is good. Only psychopath can do things and knowing that it's bad. But we're not born psychopath, we become one progressively in time.

Example : An abused child. In his opinion his parents are evil, it will evolve accordingly to protect themselves and become in turn "nasty" (this is a very simplistic way to explain how one becomes a psychopath)


From a less personal point of view, I think human are not evil, but he BECOME evil (as I said). It's a defense system, but if the human is aware that his bad, he may try to change.

* * *

Selon moi, tout les humains sont bons. Je m'explique : Chaque humains pensent avoir raisons et agir pour les bonnes choses, de sont point de vu, il aura FORCEMENT raison. Cependant, il est bien sûr possible que celui-ci se remettent en question, et doute de lui.

C'est toujours la même chose, s'il se remet en question, c'est pour être sur de ne pas faire une "mauvaise chose". Seul les pervers narcissique (des "psychopathe) peuvent agir en sachant pertinemment que ce qu'ils font est mal. Mais, on ne naît pas "psychopathe", on le devient au fur et à mesure du temps.

Exemple : Un enfant maltraité. De son point de vu, ses parents seront "méchant", il évoluera en conséquence pour se protéger et deviendra à son tour "méchant" (c'est une manière très simpliste d'expliquer la manière dont on devient psychopathe)


D'un point de vu moins personnel, je pense que l'humain n'est pas méchant, mais qu'il le devient (comme je l'ai dit). En système de défense, si cependant il en prend conscience, il essayera peut-être de changer.

No being in this world is born bad or good since bad or good are human made words plus one entire kind cannot be characterized as good or bad since that lies in the actions we will take in the future we all think of doing the good or the bad thing but what separates us from good or bad is that very choice!!!

(sorry for my bad english)
i think that humans are good and bad because every human have differents ideas of the good or the evil if when we born we learned that steal was good steal for us is good and if we learn that kill for ourself is good we kill the humans don't know what is good or evil the humans now what is good or evil for the society and then we choose what is good for us

I'm a sociopath. I don't have morals or guilt. I take offense to the implication that this makes me evil. Quite the contrary. Socio and psychopaths are less likely to commit crimes or be in prison than average people.

You also seem to imply that morals or guilt makes people not be selfish. That's just wrong. Humans only do things for self benefit no matter what happens. There's always some self benefit to what they do. And it's best that way. Otherwise we'd all be miserable and never be productive at anything.

Selfishness is not a bad thing. It creates a system where we can coexist in a functioning, lucrative, happy system for the betterment of us all.

>>664
>Quite the contrary. Socio and psychopaths are less likely to commit crimes or be in prison than average people.

How is that possible when most of the mass murderers in America I've ever learned about were either one of those two?

No, if there are actual statistics saying this I'd be genuinely surprised, but also wonder if they were only talking about non-violent crimes.

I think that there is no right answer to this question and that it doesn't really matter because the answear won't change anything

Well, someone has to be right! That's simply the way we work! So we'll continue until someone submits into being wrong.

Good and bad are petty human words that mean next to nothing.

Morality is completely subjective. Both words are simply two oposite ends of the same scale of reference.

Man does what he wants, its as simple as that.

What I see is that we tend to stray towards being evil, because according to entropy theory, it is often easier to head towards disorderedness.

Being evil is often easier because it allows you to survive by putting yourself before others. When people do good, it is putting others before self and thus they often suffer far more. Ever hear of the phrase "Good people die earlier"?

Man at first is neither good nor bad according to a Chinese 3-word poem. It is the way they are nurtured that make them either good or bad.

If their environment is good and they learn good moral values then there's a high probability they will turn out as a better person, vice versa(though they have some opposite flaws but we're talking overall).

I believe that man is naturally neutral. It is the upbringing, environment and exposure that lead us with the same beginning(born as a baby) to have different unique endings(grown up man).

I don't think I can label the human race as collectively either good or evil. I believe it is up to the individual, their upbringings and beliefs, the knowledge and behaviors they pick up around them and how they choose to use it. Some humans are good, and some are bad, there are no two ways about it. Now, if you are referring to whether mans presence on the planet is good or evil, as in are we good for our planet, then I believe we are evil. We may have started out as a few evolved chimps but in the last few centuries we have turned into a cancer and at some point it will punch us in the face. But that's just my opinion!

I heard the book "Lord of the Flies" kinda symbolically answers this question. It talks about a group of kids with no adults who get stuck on an island, and their faced with their true inner selves while trying to survive, and they see who they are inherently at the end of the book. Maybe give it a read? :D

I don't see why man has to tend towards either. If we are born with no morals or conscious, as op said, then it goes to say that at our base we are neither good nor evil. Seems like people are products of their circumstances, and to judge us all as a whole is nearly (entirely?) impossible (because by who's morals would we do that?)

@ KeiKei~Chan:

Hey there! Im Kal. So I haven't been fully invested in your thread, and this might be a bit off topic, but as I'm sure you've realized, your question regarding whether people are good or evil has spurred quite the debate. In fact, it's forced people to look at things differently and have their own thoughts and opinions challenged as any good conversation should do.

However, while it is important to inspire this sense of wonder in your audience, the real question is: what can you do now that you've inspired people to think about things? What kind of influence can you bring? You have all these people listening and talking back, but what kind of actions are you asking them to take?

I know this wasn't your intention from the beginning of this post, but with nearly 700 entries, you obviously have something special going on here. Im offering you a chance to do something with this influence. I want this to be an opportunity to make a change in the world for the better. I started a thread too, and while my topic centers solely on the possibility of World Peace, few can argue against the flirtatiousness between the similarities of our topics.

You're interested in good or evil, and Im interested in bringing peace to the world. Think of what we could start if we were to combine our ideas and opinions? With the numbers of your thread followers, and the vision that I have in store for all of us, I'm telling you: we have a chance at starting a movement that was made for ensuring the happiness and peace for everyone around the world.

Look, Im just one guy, so making this kind of offer may not have much weight to it, but I'm a firm believer in achieving any and all goals that I set for myself. To be clear: you certainly aren't a necessity to what I have in store, but having you along for the ride would certainly make for an interesting approach that could turn out to be surprisingly effective. Should my offer interest you, find a way to get my attention, and we can have a nice long discussion about what steps to take from here.

I look forward to hearing from you soon.