What the fuck found it on several sources, this bill has been kept silent.... saw anonymous report on it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrXyLrTRXso&feature=player_embedded

Checked other sources:
http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.com/ict_sbc/u-s-senate-authorizes-military-to-detain-u-s-citizens

http://articles.cnn.com/2011-12-01/politics/politics_senate-detainee-policy_1_defense-bill-senate-debate-senate-amendment?_s=PM:POLITICS

http://forums2.battleon.com/f/tm.asp?m=19860279&mpage=1&key=&#19862209

cross referenced it to one another and got the conclusion that..... THE GOVERNMENT HAS A SHIT TON-A POWER NOW, no two ways of looking at it.... GUYS THIS IS SERIOUS POST HERE COMMENTS OPINIONS, I say if there is movement by anonymous 99% or any groups to rally against it than maybe dollars should get together too.
----------------------------------------------------------
For now lets just post here to talk about it and opinions|
worries and issues, guys make this known around facebook |
let your friends know... the media was blacked out from |
broadcasting about this until it was passed by a |
staggering 93 to 7 majority |
----------------------------------------------------------

fuck deleted the wrong one lol hahaha oh well, sorry ayanavi internet lag stopped loading and internet got back on reposted it

Okay dude.
I am just as pissed off as you are.
BUT FUCK.
TAKE IT TO NEWS DUMBFUCK.
IF you can read all that..
WHY THE FUCK COULDNT YOU READ THE FAQ's OR AT LEAST THE DAMN NAVIGATION BUTTONS??

And just like that America became the Roman Empire ruled under Nero.
(for those who don't know, Nero terrorized the roman citizens and set the city of Rome a fire, and brought the Roman Empire to it's knees where it eventually broke apart and died)

>>4 PPLEEEEASE DONT GET THAT SHIT STARTED.
THE THINGS I COULD SAY!!! :D
Wait for OP to post it in NEWS.
Then we can have hella good time.

"Main Board
Important topics, overarching Dollars issues, and actual topics of discussion belong here."

>Actual topic of discussion

I'd say this warrants an actual topic of discussion, and possibly even an over-arching Dollars Issue since a good deal of us are in America.

This belongs on Main. It can be posted in News, since it technically is, but it is correctly placed here.

Forte you have good opinions but i dont give a fuck right now this belongs more on main than 90% of shit on main so shut the fuck up im leaving this up, MAIN IS FOR BIG SHIT THIS IS BIG SHIT, read the other topics dumbfuck nothing else is as important, maybe people wont see this!

Some people focus on other parts of the site, so this is for our members in states to see and find out dont give a fuck who ever tries to be all this doesnt belong here, I AM RIGHT UP THERE WITH GETTING PISSED ABOUT SHIT BEING ON MAIN,

BUT THIS ISNT SHIT :D so now relax sitdown count to ten and lets talk about this damn law its ridiculous

We're all fucked. Start training now. You'll need it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iiQxrN5w7-k&feature=related

Here is an articulate news like structure explaining the gravity of the passing of the bill

OHHHHH SHIII-

Oh shit, we are all fucked. Canada, here I go.

Also, above post was me because I was stupid and didn't read OP, herp derp.

looks like another witch hunt to me, frankly I'm amazed the supreme court let it pass. What's important now is finding a way to take it down before they convict innocent people.

yeah >>13 dude it passed93-7 i thought it would at least get a two digit opposition but to have only 7 really, after the wikileaks incident those videos of the killing of those reporters... and this i really really dont wanna live in states until things change

This is why I live in Canada

for those of you who say this law won't change anything, pay close attention to the occupy movements. I have a feeling they'll be among the first to go.

Remember the echoes of 1984, the secret detention of citizens.... it first started with people who were deemed at war with the government... until it outstretched to controlling citizens using fear.

We avoided the warning signs in blissful ignorance and the idea that its not me so i dont care... guys the one who caused this to happen is you. You are the ones killing people you are the ones who helped this law pass, for every second you ignore it.

I want so much for this world to smile... Smiles that are real, not smiles plastered but ones we help each other get. We need our freedoms, and feigned ignorance for the sake of "safety" is a fast track to having no freedoms at all.

Get to know your governments and laws and bills going on around you. :D

*for dissenting voices about oh hey poeple talking bad about the bill are just anarchists.... here is a republican senate members own opinions about the bill:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6ThanSzG_w&feature=related

And this guy is really well informed about the bill what bits we get and are leaked or discussed or have time to read maybe be bound to misinterpretation but Rand Paul is definitely an opinion to consider

oh no... i just saw the video and now im scared D:
what also sucks was that I was thinking about being maybe an FBI agent in the future. the government can't do all this. This is breaking our rights. What did our founding fathers all work for if their nation turns into this?!
im gonna be doing more research about this. This topic seems really interesting and my history teacher hasn't said a word relating to this. Maybe i can be the person to inform him on this and he can give the class a lesson on it. ^^

What will happen next, i dont want to know what powers the government will grant itself, if people decide to just take it sitting still,

U.S.
1) So as of now the government can find out other properties you own in other countries and tax it, keep it hidden can be considered a crime.
2) The government hands people's ips and allows companies like SONY to sue people for doing whatever they want to their PS3 systems
3) The government hides information of people who died in Iraq wrongly, and actually goes after people who bring the information to light
4) They had the power of the patriot act we didnt care. Search what you need to without our consent its cool, no warrant its for the right cause
5) The government had Guantanamo bay set for terrorist no right to due process, well its cool again they arent citizens, and maybe they were terrorist supporters. Heaven forbid 9/11 occurs again
6) Now the government can actually take citizens out of the country and confine them ... ontop of that there have been issues with people being assassinated again without due process, while they were out of the country.

What other powers will be added to the list of outrageous scope the government already has. What else is next?

Guys any dissenting voices that can maybe calm me down, any subtext in the bill that limits the power a bit so it would be rational to allow it. Anything that the 93 senators saw that actually made this law seem constitutional?

if they can do this without everyone knowing about it, imagine everything ells they have done without telling the public, its pretty frightening.

1.I'd like to see actual, compelling, undeniable evidence that the government assassinated people. Otherwise, it's just conspiracy like roswell and aliens.

2. Guantanamo: remember that non-U.S. citizens don't have all the rights U.S. citizens do, they have only the rights gictated by the country of which they 'are' a citizen.

>>22 No no, you misunderstand. This is something that will happen, not something that has necessarily happened in the past. The law will sanction this, but it hasn't been sanctioned yet - there's nothing to be conspired yet since the law hasn't gone through all the necessary bureaucracy.

>>22
>>23

Anwar alaki was assasinated via drone already other unleaked shit are still unleaked but yeah he was american born, and he didnt go through trial, he was blown up by a drone.
>>22 and for them not being american citizens still didnt make Guantanamo issue ok

AUTHORITIES.—Nothing in this section shall be
construed to affect existing law or authorities, relating to
the detention of United States citizens, lawful resident
aliens of the United States or any other persons who are
captured or arrested in the United States.

The quote states that the Act doesn't give the police or other authorities the right to detain indefinitelly, so the cops still can only legally detain you for fifteen minutes without cause and no other agencies (FBI, CIA, ect.) will gain any power from this. The part of the bill that really gets to me is where it designates the entire world as a battlefield, this can ge used to justify the killing of almost anyone in the world over the littlest thing because it's considered a battlefield.

Fucking America. "oh, the world is a battlefield for no reason other than we say it is herp derp". bullshit. i personally believe in the social contract, or the passages that i have read of it. in particular i'm addressing the part where it states that the government and its people have a relationship with one another and how that relationship goes on a spectrum. the spectrum is freedom and security. the more power the government has, the further the spectrum leans towards security and the more power the people have, the more it leans towards freedom. people have to have a good balance between the freedom and security of the country and if one side takes too much power, then the citizens of the country are OBLIGATED to go and try to make the change to make the spectrum become more balanced. this seems like one of those times to me. this isn't a call to action or a suggestion that revolution is needed, but we must voice our objections to this if we want it to be overturned.

>>25 read this ALL OF IT
http://aircrap.org/rand-paul-indefinite-detention-provision-defense-authorization-act-s1867/333375/
from actual senators didnt wanna copy and paste what they had to say kinda long, thought of just putting in a small section but everything is pertinent

Bump for this belonging on Main because it is FUCKING IMPORTANT.

http://paul.senate.gov/?p=press_release&id=399
At least some amendments to this bill were voted down, but they may be tacked back on during the process... What is truly fucked up/makes this not so surprising is the fact that the US populace doesn't give two shits or half of fuck about these things and remain generally blissfully uninformed and ignorantly uneducated about what is happening in this country. They are too busy to give any kind of a damn because "Dancing with the Stars is on" or "the new Twilight movie is out" or even because "corporate greed from Wall Street is causing fiscal discourse and imbalance in our economy and job market." :/

>>16
Agreed. In fact, the Occupy Movement has been a critical pawn on the board. First, it was hidden from mainstream media until it was needed as a distraction from government/military activity and policy development; and now, it will be used as the test field now that certain [and many and differing] political sects have (by design and prior intentions) infiltrated the movement and begun to manipulate and steer the mass of uninformed, passionately ignorant towards to chopping block so that the ax's edge can be tested. As violence from Oakland, a violent place as it already stands, is given the limelight and Spring approaches with a new horde, we will see the masterfully executed illusion take place. Try to watch closely to see the strings making the magician levitate. The "99%" doesn't know shit and have no clue what they have become nor what others intended to use this movement for from the beginning.

>>14 >>17 >>18 >>20
Sick, right!?!? You'd think more people in the Senate would see this a fucking terrible idea, BUT it is "for the greater good and security of this United States federal government"... :( You are spot on with your observations, but it is far worse. Things are gonna get pretty rough and the fed has been prepping for these things for years and years, yet the US citizens remain oblivious and ignorant, like pigs to slaughter, obsessed with that which they have been conditioned to revolve their lives around such as celebrity "news" and affairs, Facebook, XBOX Kinect, Angry Birds, iPad/iPod releases, etc. Our daily fascinations are blinders set to keep our vision narrow and we don't even realize how limited our vision truly is.

>>22
If you gave at least two shits or half a fuck, you would do your own research and see how little you know:
>> http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/07/world/middleeast/07yemen.html
>> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/barackobama/7564581/Barack-Obama-orders-killing-of-US-cleric-Anwar-al-Awlaki.html
>> http://www.libertariantoday.com/2011/10/obama-admin-follows-up-assassination-of.html
>> http://www.therealcuba.com/Americans%20Killed%20in%20Cuba.htm
>> http://www.larouchepac.com/node/19941
>> http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/closeread/2011/10/an-american-teen-ager-in-yemen.html
>> http://www.the-sps.org/threads/awlakis-16-year-old-son-assassinated-by-us-drone.22955/
>> http://www.salon.com/2010/04/07/assassinations_2/
>> http://www.salon.com/2011/09/30/awlaki_6/
>> http://news.firedoglake.com/2011/09/30/american-citizen-anwar-al-awlaki-assassinated-in-yemen/
aaaaaaaannnnndd >>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KR35UyE6mo
I bet you don't know the actual details about the "Osama Bin Laden incident", SEAL Team 6 or the shady business that took place regarding these things and the time in which they occurred. Please, for your sake, fucking read about what is happening. Actually read...

>>23
Unfortunately, I have to disagree with you. These things have already been taking place; the bill will simply justify what has been occurring without the general population's notice and further permit such to happen regularly and become a norm of our society. It is too optimistic, especially when you have been keeping up with political and military affairs that prove otherwise, to believe the federal government, its affiliates and vestiges will wait for this bill to go through the House of Representatives, back through the Senate again and then [sitting for 10 days so that it may be enacted automatically] the President's office desk. IF this bill makes it and becomes a law, then things will become much worse while being painted even brighter and colored as maintaining "justice and peace".

Divine ya know ya actually researched more than most of the dissenting opinions, that only refer to one source to support their ignorance. Hats off again to ya bro, try to get more info on this if ya can cuz i am quite limited in the accessibility of relevant news. :D guys i will be in manila fucking busy again, so please continue the discussion, post your dissents with the information gathered about it.

IF YOU HAVE EVIDENCE TO NEW THINGS CHANGING THAT PAINTS THIS BILL IN BETTER LIGHT I WOULD LOVE IT :D I WANT TO NOT FREAK OUT ^~^, so i possted a thread in missions about getting to know your government more and the laws it passes, i hope we can all do that. I myself am guilty of relying on media to get the latest info of laws.

So keep me posted guys and keep yourself informed

the government is committing treason against america it doesn't belong to the people anymore, it belongs to the government do you wonder why we have to pay to have our houses on land!? its their land the government owns 80% of america! dollars we need to rise up and stop this! we are almost 80k people we can do this!

>>30
This is the bill as it was passed in the Senate: http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?c112:2:./temp/~c112GztdmP::

I will be on the Rizon.net webIRC in channel #dollars-bbs all day today, and probably most weekdays, if anyone wants to discuss the NDAA S.1867 (or anything else)...

>>31 80K people worldwide. this is one problem. the other is that we do not have 80k people, that's just the number of different ip's that have entered the site at least once since the site went up. another is that even if we had 80k people, even that wouldnt be enough to stop this.

http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message1715311/pg1

interesting forum on this specific bill the arguments and counter arguments intelligently well backed

Read the whole section of the bill pertaining to detaining...and parts that were highlighter by others... basically it has enough quick answers to ward off people specifically looking if citizens are at risk, but then it counterdicts itself in a Giant Shitty loopy piece of mess that in the end just says: Well even though we wrote a whole bunch of fucking shit that archadmiral was made to read and finally not get so worried, this basically changes all the shit we wrote, and summarizes we can do what the fuck we want if we think you fit our idea of an enemy..... -__-

Translated in to plain English, this means that the US military can unilaterally cause any person to "disappear," imprisoning him or her indefinitely—without trial, without a warrant, without the involvement of an attorney or a judge, without respect for international law, and without giving any reasons.

Aight Aight. Calm your boner. I misspoke. Okay...so its on main.
Lemme go eat dinner right quick and I will crank out my words. :)
>>7 you didnt have to call me a dumbfuck btw. I think I qualify as something much more by actually being able to recognize this conversation and the issue it poses.

>>37

You called him one at first in >>3
Reap what you sow.

>>38 T-T I have brought dishona to my famiry.
I shall now commit sepuku,
I apologize to both of you. i misspoke.
Trust me, I realize the urgency of the matter, just maybe over didi it on the cleaning job. :/

isnt this unconstitutional?

...I'm glad I live in Canada.

This is a violation of the bill of rights. Spread the word so we can shutdown this unconstitutional bill. It violates the right to organize peacefully . Let's spread this message on all dollars sites and farther.

Alright. *cracks knuckles*
I know what the bill is, and instead of having some type of expose on it, I would rather talk about what this means for Americans, and how the government has been fucking us over for a while.

First, I would like to say, as many of you know, the American Government has been fucking over its people for a long time. They feed you the bullshit with the newest games and technologies and Apple software, to keep you unaware of the shit they do behind the scenes.

They have been doing this shit, since the Bush administration, when the Patriot Act gave them the fucking right to invade your privacy because they were paranoid little fucks and wanted to protect our "security".
Now they are taking away more of our rights, just like with the internet censorship act. Many of the things that have happened up to this point have been unconstitutional. I am not saying, we as the citizens of the States are completely innocent, but we still deserve the rights that our forefathers outlined for us when they declared us a separate entity from Britain.

We are losing a constant battle my fellow Americans, against the hands that feed us. We only cling to them as they feed us, and then continue to mistreat us like we are their 5$ whores.

We need to break free.

Sorry if I sound like a conspiracy theorist.

And sorry if this post is bullshit..I'm tired as fuck right now..

>>42
>>40
Very Much so.
Too many Americans are concerned with the latest Apple bullshit, and stuffing their faces to pay attention to the bullshit that is ruining America.
We are following the path of the Roman government.
Bread and circus.
Fire.
Nero.
All of it.
We are a dying civilization.

Read books like 1984,Little Brother,Brave New World, and The Giver.

Your eyes will see. And you will no longer be blind.

>>44
Add Animal Farm to that list.

Nero didn't burn rome, he was away from the city when it happened - Fires started often during those periods, and the clustering of the cities made it extremely easy to spread if it wasn't addressed immediately.

The whole "Nero fiddeled while rome burned" story is historically bullshit.

Though your sentiments are in the right place, at least.

>>45 Ah! Forgot about that one.
Fahrenheit 451 as well!
>>46 I have misspoken so many times in one thread..why am I full of failure today D:
I feel as if I have disgraced you all T-T
Forgive me. :(

Let's not debate the technicalities of examples. Forte_Sigma is correct in his comparison; as Rome grew, it came closer and closer to impending calamity of some sort. "Great and powerful civilizations" face the threat of collapsing upon themselves. That is the price of such power. Everything is going to bubble until it finally pops.

i agree with divineraccoon

bump for more discussions!

Well, if you aren't doing anything illegal(like Federal or terrorism) it won't affect you. And we did this before in the civil war. Aslong as your not going to blow up the white house, your fine. Not that i aprove this bill, but i don't see it as a oppression either.

>>51 o.O
What
the
actual
fuck?
You don't see arresting people and detaining them under "suspicion" isn't oppression?
On top of this, its highly unconstitutional. And we weren't doing this before the civil war. We had a national little army that played by the "rules" of war. I mean..George Washington's sniper didn't even kill him because he was too easy of a shot.
C'mon.
Besides...you think they were worried about fucking terrorists?
This bill comes from fear and paranoia.

Bump.

Bump

>>29 You are aware that Anwar was a terrorist who the governmet had problems with for years right? Originally the governmet asked him to stop his lectures, and he ignored them. There was also a warrant for his arrest. And adding to that, he denied his citizenship. He was also a self-professed member of Al-Quieda, and 9/11 was an act of war against America.


Also are you aware that our governmet advises us to stay away from Cuba?

I asked my dad about this and he said that the media over exaggerating everything and that there's nothing to worry about. :I

>>55
I am aware of all of that and more when it comes to specifics involving Anwar and his son. Regardless of what you have mentioned, he was still a [nonviolent] US citizen and was assassinated without due process of law. This is why you can't walk up to a serial killer and murder him for his crimes, we have laws and rights as US citizens (which cannot be revoked through oral exclamation) and procedures to ensure those are maintained for all.

9/11 is a cop out argument, btw.

>>56
Your dad didn't read the bill and also trusts the government.

HOLY SHIT this is big, and Bump

>>57 9/11
I agree with you.
It happened 10 fucking years ago.
You can't argue that the reasoning for doing all this shit is because of ONE terrorist attack.

That is like Japan censoring everything American because we nuked them.
TWICE.

But no, the buddied with us and now do daily trades of cars, video games, agricultural products and the like.

I want to get in league with the Anonymous. Anyone agree??

>>61 I thought about it. Figured it wasn't worth it yet. They have been investigating those guys HEAVY and if you dont have software that can completely hide your ass and make you go stealth..you are fucked. And the will detain you under suspicion of being a cyber-terrorist.

>>61
>>62
BTW we just broke the first rule..so...yeah... lol

>>60 >>62
We are automatic friends, I think. :3
>>61
I too have considered this, but Forte_Sigma is right. But it would be better to join Anonymous than to join the Occupy Movement. The best thing you can do as an individual, IMO, right now is to read the bill, do research, talk to people (of differing positions and opinions regarding this), spread the word about the bills existence and write your Senators and Representatives. Write your Governor, write your Mayor, hell, write to anyone you have respect for. Talk talk talk talk talk.

>>64 Hahah we weren't friends before? :3

>>57 >>60 It's not a cop out. And 10 years ago or not, if you're a member of an organization that declares war on the U.S., then that's treason punishable by death, which makes 9/11 relevant.

Not to mention that in 1991 he returned to the U.S. for college studies with a scholarship from Yemen. Yemen doesn't recognize dual citizenship and to get the scholarship, Anwar would have to had renounce his American citizenship and be recognized as a citizen of Yemen.

BTW, if you read the whole bill you will notice more than just the detaining of Americans disturbing. There is a bunch of fucked up shit. But don't take my word for it: http://www.theblaze.com/stories/senate-repeals-bans-on-sodomy-and-bestiality-in-the-u-s-military/

>>65
Since we are automatic friends, it seems we were friends before it was before. Kinda like how energy cannot be created or destroyed.

>>66
No it doesn't, otherwise we wouldn't be imprisoning captured terrorist, we would simply kill them.
Also, Yemen policy is not our policy. Renouncing the your US citizenship there does not renounce it here; just like how the US doesn't recognized dual citizenship, so here you are just a US citizen, but go to France and you are a US and a French citizen because France DOES recognize dual citizenship.

>>68
http://www.richw.org/dualcit/faq.html#recog

Citizenship gets messy all by itself

>>69
Okay, I may be wrong about US dual citizenship policy. I am reading though the guide now: https://www.usimmigrationsupport.org/citizenship-application.html

Actually the U.S. does recognize dual citizenship. But "However, a person who acquires a foreign citizenship by applying for it may lose U.S. citizenship. In order to lose U.S. citizenship, the law requires that the person must apply for the foreign citizenship voluntarily, by free choice, and with the intention to give up U.S. citizenship." That was taken from the U.S. dept. of State. http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1753.html



And I just want to be clear that I'm not supporting or objecting the bill in question as I don't know enough about it at the moment to form my own formal opiniom. I'm just expresring t my thoughts on the Anwar situation.

>>67 :D
>>68 In response to>>66

Yeah, keeping them alive, giving the FREE healthcare and 3 square meals a-day. And I'm not talking prison food. I'm talking shit that at least qualifies as 3 or 4 start restaurant food.

They treats fucking POW's better than their own citizens.
Like..fucking really?

>>64 I agree we need to spread the word about this Americans have rights and we need to defend them
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iiQxrN5w7-k&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6ThanSzG_w&feature=related

>>71
Touché, sir. You make your points and you make them well.

Goodness..an intelligent debate. Makes me happy.

>>74 Thank you my good man, as do you... unless you are a lady... In which case, thank you my good lady.

CLASS! CLASS!
>>74>>76
*slow claps*
Keep it classy guys :)

>>77 I'm also a fan of how you dealt with the troll in the publicity thread you made :)

>>78 *blushes* Ooo UUUU! Thanks :D haha
Lol no in all seriousness though, I do one of two things. I troll back, or have fun with them. lol. Its fun.

>>79 Lol. I usually try reason, but it fails lol.

>>80 Don't get mad. That's key. And if reason doesn't work, have fun with them,a s if you are a cat, and you are toying with prey.

>>51 do Woodrow Wilson and Daniel Ellsberg mean anything to you?
that goes for you too >>56, if you think that "as long as you dont do anything wrong" nothing will happen, you're dead wrong.
as for the rest, i think that Forte, Divineracoon and crisis pretty much have it covered.

Bump

“The country was in peril; he was jeopardizing his traditional rights of freedom and independence by daring to exercise them.”

-Catch-22

Well, the Bill of Rights apply, and they need over powering evidence to detain the person. (That's what my broadcast teacher told me.)

>>84

From what I read as soon as your accused of anything they can revoke you're citizenship so the bill of right will no longer apply.

>>85

Well, I've got my teacher and a few other kids looking into it, so I'm not the only one researching it.
As for that, I say that this... whatever it is, is so retarded! How the hell do the expect to get away with it anyway?

Good country scared of the governmant.... So fuck it... Fuck the law... We can this counttry... Get ready for the revolution man

>>85 (I got some more stuff)

It's a law for counter terrorism and drug stuff. And it's reversing the Act of 1878.

>>87 I would say you would need a shit-load of people to do that...

First America starts censoring websites, then they make Pizza a vegetable, now they are allowing this?? what the fuck is happening

Uhm, didn't they fail to pass pizza as a vegitable? Just saiyan...

>>90 *Saying (Love someone who spends to much time on Taste of Awesome)

And I'm pretty sure the fact of it is that they tried to pass pizza as a vegetable. They still tried to do it, regardless of whether it passed or not.

Oh really? i dunno, some people are still saying it's now a vegetable

>>83
My favorite book!

Oh my god... Are we really that bad by now?? Indefinite detainment is a little much for SUSPECTED terrorists. I mean come on who could really vote this bill in??

Actually, without trial, indefinite detainment would violate amendments 5, 6, 7, and potentially 8.

Bump- Because people need to see how terrible our government really is.

I watched a video on this and was pretty much outraged. 92/7? Really? They obviously don`t see how unconstitutional this is.

>>94 The same idiots who say tomato sauce constitutes as a full daily serving of fucking vegetables.

>>88In response to>>87

We have a shit load of people. Its called the 99%
:)

First they say pizza is a vegetable then this? How retarted will our government become?

>>98
Either you be trollin or you be confused. :3

>>100 Explain. Maybe I am. lol

I feel this is important, so i bumped it. This a major issue (in my opinion) and could actually become a very dangerous issue.
P.S. "if your government shuts down the internet, shut down the government" -stated by Anonymous

this is bump worthy

bump.

fuck! also bump

bubba gump

I say start training and find out what members are around you. Now is a time for us to truly stand together. We need to unite or we may fall. If we ever did go at war sometime judging by the ages of most of us how many do you think would actually be able to fight. I say age 14 and up. Whatever. WE SHALL UNITE!

>>107 Or just deal with it in court as it disregards the 4th amendment, and is therefore unconstitutional.

>>1 What the hell what will happen if this is going to happen, what shall we do........we ain't in the first world war if this happens what shall happen to all of us

>>110 huh? i do not know what you are trying to say with this post... all i got is "what will happen to us?" which you can find out by reading the whole thread

>>111 wait this ain't over?

>>112 nope. nothing has been done about it yet. it's why we keep it bumped to the top, so that everyone can see it and knows what's going on

>>108 That's true.

>>113 ohhh then BUMP

bump

I have always been against how crazed our country is towards our security. 9/11 was a truly sad event; but it was not that bad compared to what other countries face often, as well as what we the US have done to other countries and their innocent citizens. Even so, the gov't treated as if the world was ending, and the people supported it without thought. And now we have this...

We are fucked. Even if trials were put in place, the potential for the government to modify and/or falsify information is too high. They can make anything seem a reality; any person could be turned into a monster with just a few falsified records and pictures. The real solution to all this is a mass clean out of our government, a complete removal of those in power ie revolution. And the general populace could easily make this possible; we outnumber them so severely it is insane. We, the people, need to come together and stand up to our oppressive, power-hungry government.

With the House having voted 406-17 to “close” portions of the meetings and avoid public scrutiny, members from both chambers and both parties are meeting in a secretive conference committee to work on reconciling the differences between the House and Senate versions of the bill. On the military detention provision, their main task is going to be to find a solution that can pass both chambers (again) and not draw a veto from President Obama.

http://www.opencongress.org/articles/view/2447-Indefinite-military-detention-for-U-S-citizens-now-in-the-hands-of-a-secretive-conference-committee-

>>120
...fuck...

I'm proud to be an American~!
Where at least I know I'm-

..Er.

Wait.

>>122 You my friend, took the words out of my mouth.
Or my head.... You get the point, you speak for several of us.

>>120 mother fucking shit balls.
>>117 this seems to be the only real way out, but you forget that the government has control of the military, and unlike the militaries of countries that went through revolutions in the industrial revolutions and such, out military is a little more organized and efficient.

TL;DR we're fucked.

>>122
Freed from our Rights. Safe from our Freedoms.
>>124
Quit, drop your guns and pick up your computers!

>>125 but they're efficient at computer warfare too...lol

bump

>>126 If you sit at home all day and do nothing, you'd be efficient at computer warfare too.

>>128 not as efficient as people who sit at home AND at work and get PAID to be good at computer warfare.

>>122 lol

You know what I say?
I say..
V.
for Vendetta.
or A.
for Anarchy.
They fuck us over, we do the same.

I think the goverment shoud have this kind of power.

I think the goverment shoud have this kind of power.

>>132 Care to explain? Hard to argue an opinion without backing it up.

>>132 i agree with Misuto

>>132 The fuck?!

>>135 >>134 >>133 i agree with all of u

Agreed, even if we stay silent, we, the Dollars, should do something about it!

TONIGHT..WE DINE..IN HELLLL!
no..hmm..not fitting..
We strike...at dawn..
no no no...not..dollar-y.

Hmm...

We strike in the night.
Colorless in flight.
We stay hidden from your sight.
We will take back our rights.
And leave you, to die.

hmm....I'm not..feeling it.

That's pretty good >>138 the last part though hmmmm..

lol

>>138 And leave you in fright? I dunno, I nearly half asleep right now >.>137 Agreed. We need to atleast try to do something about this, im plan to look into this a little more.. Im Also Trying To Figure Out What Our Government Has Come To Now A Days.

ugh well looks like the goverments trying to dictate us again....isnt there somewhere that not as corrupt and fucked up as America?

Before you guys blow this outta proportion, this is just fear mongering and fallacy. This is an example of terrorism. Free speech is a Constitutional Amendment and the only way this would work with no one worrying about it would be they do this in secret but they can't if it becomes law. Also, Obam promised to veto the bill so let's hope he does. Either way, it's only been passed through Senate, not yet the Committee, or the House of Representatives.

>>143 Really. most bills spend about 5 years being recycled through the system before they get approved. And by then, so many changes have been made, that it barely resembles what it was originally.

That is also true. I'm just trying to get everyone to chillax.

having read this WHOLE THREAD i agree with everypn except >>132. also i just finishes a couple units in social studies dealing with the three sections of government , which are supposed to be equal in power, the constitution, which this bill breaks about 3-4 ammendments, and what the hell happens in the government and i sincerely believe in the most simple words possible, the government be trippin if they think this law will pass. i personally wanna know who thought of the bill and sent it to congress.

>>146 The wait begins. But for now, I'm going to make a YouTube video that is to include my talk about this.

Bump

GUYS IF YOU JUST PLAINLY TRUST THE GOVERNMENT ON SHIT WHEN WAR OCCURS,.... hey does anyone remember pearl harbor??? One thing you do know its a well known FACT that our country's "war eagles" the gunghoo milatary types wanted in on the world war, but alot of people didnt support us interfering, hey after pearl harbor the government no longer needed to defend itself from criticism of joining in, if you criticized the government, people would be angry at you as activists... sound familiar??? and not soon after the japense Americans were sent to camps and treated like shit *on order of the government.... TO PROTECT OUR PEOPLE... no due process


GUYS ITS NOT OVER EXXAGGERATING your folks who tell you this is just those who focus on earning and apart of the millions who hear that oh 2,000 people died it seems like numbers to them. Wheni hear 2,000 die or people wrongfully killed or persecuted i put myself in their shoes... WITHOUT FUCKING TRIALS THEN ONE CANT DEFEND THEMSELVES WHAT IF SOME DOUCHE SAYS YOUR A TERRORIST AND THE GOVERNMENT DEEMS YOU A THREAT... Huh what if your uncle was a terrorist you denied joining the family business he gets pissed frames you.... how the fuck would that feel (TO THOSE ASSWIPES WHO THINK OH IF THE GOVERNMENT THINKS YOU ARE A TERRORIST YOU DONT NEED A TRIAL)

Are you then gonna tell me that all of our killers rapists and criminals dont need a trial, just death, dude then go join like a deathnote fanfic where kira kills everyone...

On the side of reality, it is trial and conviction that truth prevails, it is in secret detention and forced ignorance where one can eliminate those who may get in the way.

Guys bills that always has an incase of this or incase of that, basically dont need to read anything before it, just basically means should be taken as (white out all the parts next to except, and change it to especially) because incase situations actually really do mean change everything to especially think about it.

MORE OPINIONS and i just came back from manila so tell me any new evens?

Bumpity bump

>>149 America refused to join the war on its own, only after peart harbor they decided it was their fight, America's government doesnt stick up for people untill its forced to get involved, besides, permanent detension? this aint liberty kid, why should someone have eternal detension? its not like they're killing someone

why in the world would this be important to the dollars ?

>>152

Because it may actually end up affecting some Dollars memebers, but even if it didn't it's still a good topic for discussion.

>>152 This is about rights being in risk..., you see people actually talking about it,... with your name i can presume what you wanna talk about but this is important. I hope you dont live in America and think that way,.. if you do i do hope your 10 hope..


Dude america helped fund the allies weapons, and supported them financially and mechanically, they were even on standby.. but people didnt want to interfere, it took the unification of everyone because of an"unprovoked" attack. Thats what fueled us to go all in, if someone were to criticize the action, then people would defend the decision and insult you for being a niplover (nip=ethnic slur for japanese).

Japanese-american citizens in states were detained for safety measures, it wasnt questioned much, yes they were restored rights.. but just the fact that we relinquish that much authority to the gov. is the issue...
and >>151 dont call me kid i have a kid, and its an insult to refer to me as such demeans my intelligence. Give respect present facts, and learn how to spell. Actually I wasnt sure what your post meant so, yeah... hope you can put in your input to elaborate.

:) lets see more opinions couldnt find any new info on the bill so far

>>155 Im just gonna say this..I uh..apologized to you way earlier in the thread. I misspoke. So uh..sorry.

its cool man, that post was for someone else, and Ayanavi got pissed at me for accidently making two posts lol my laptop click messed up during lag, rightly so.

You help us when noobs over post shit.. its fine. But yeah its fine, you notice i dont use bad language unless its really gets to the bone :D

but going to your opinion its not a conspiracy theorist...its relavent this whole bill was a conspiracy so..

Break it down, conspiracy:
Conspiracy as a word, has its meaning rooted in the words secret, plot and deception

So our government intentionally did not make the bill public until it was passed, giving no time for opinions against it to be heard... so yeah media being blacked out is a conspiracy no two ways about it

ITS WHAT IT IS! the government wouldn't have had the blackout of the media if they didnt think it would affect the passing of the bill.

>>157 Thanks bro. :)
and I agree.

>>157 i agree. also bump

I think this fits perfectly, with this topic of discussion..

All warfare is based on deception. for years the west's hypocrisy has made the war a battlefield. The corrupt talk, while our brothers and sons spill their own blood. But, deceit cuts both ways. The bigger the lie, the more likely people will believe it, and when a nation cries for vengeance, the lie spreads like a wildfire. The fire builds devouring everything in its path. Our enemies believe that they alone, dictate the course of history, and all it takes, is the will of a single man
~Vladmir Makarov

>>160 Isn't that from call of duty? Lol

>>161 Yeah, but it fits.
Just because its a video game doesn't mean it doesnt have some smart shit in it.

Awesome quote bro, i really feel so livid when it comes to thinking about going back home and actually living there sometimes, the warmness I feel in Philippines is just awesome.


Its not that it is a better country its just that 90% of people in states want to live the lies in blissful ignorance like alot of our parents. In Philippines we know the government sucks so I can actually have conversations with people.

Everyone is very in-tuned with legislature and the government cant sneak in laws. I mean corruption is still prevalent in the levels of the Filipino Bureaucracy but at least it comes out the facts are pushed out somehow ...

america is getting worse by the second.....
seriously! if this keeps up we'll be in the middle of a dictatorship. and whats worse is that the second 1 country falls to hell thats important on the food chain it has a domino effect. this bill shouldend have even been suggested at all! it should have been shot down the second it got suggested. and if president Obama does veto it if they want to they can override his veto and put it up for disscussion again -.-' we gotta do something before it gets outta hand.

Kanako, If we try to get involved though, we could be considered part of the terrorist group to, so It may be better to sit back and observe, the most we can do is start a petition.

This is where my right to bare arms comes in. I have a single action army and I'm not afraid to use it. I'd rather not use it at all, but the way things are going we might be having nation wide riots soon.

bump because it's an important discussion of sorts.

bump

People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people.

im not encouraging some crazy revolution but what is said is true, the government should listen to us! if we don't want this to be a law then we must take action. Spread the word. I told my parents about this law, they didn't believe that it was real! Spread the word, with 77363 members strong, we need to do our part to make sure that everyone is aware of what is happening!

bumpity bump bump. oh look. bump

B-U-M-P It spells Bump :)

bump for great justice

For the people who deny that a bill like this could ever pass, as few as they are on this particular thread, i will again state: do Woodrow Wilson and Daniel Ellsberg mean anything to you? maybe they won't pass a bill of this magnitude right away, but it wouldn't surprise me in the least. especially since there are so many people in the US that put so much blind trust in the government.

double post bump!

take off every bump

Hey listen up! Without the people, the government has no power. Instead of sitting around complaining, we should do something about this! If all you do is sit here and talk, the government will continue to get away with everything they are doing. All you good people out there become our future government officials and make a real change!

Russia and China have both threatened military action against us if we continue sanctions on Iran. Both Russia and China have economic interests in Iran and the US is stepping all over it. Our economy is not in any shape to support a war against another super power, much less two. In my opinion this bill is meant to make idiots feel safe because we're, "eliminating terrorism on our soil." Which has LITTLE merit because terrorist sleeper cells do exist on US soil.

However, it's my prediction that the US will continue sanctions on Iran, and continue to push further and further militarily until we force the hand of China and Russia, igniting a conflict that will suck the entire Middle East as well as all of our allies, into a conflict that is the stuff that history books are made of.

More to the point, I believe that the NDAA is the first step to imposing martial law on us entirely. I strongly believe that the struggle that will ensue (representatives from China and Russia both have used the term "World War 3") will be a specifically planned out event on the part of a few prominent figures in our government, in order to destabilize all governments involved, and ultimately lead to the formation of a one world government.

Those who have power, seek more power. This whole situation is so that a few fat cats can sit on the ashes of a burned world, patting themselves on the back at how much control they have over their fellow man.

I will resist, even if it means dying. I will NOT be taken prisoner by the very government I served. When the time comes, I will protect my loved ones, and I will save as many people as possible, until they ultimately put me down like the others that are sure to fight back.

The U.S. is now pulling out of Iraq and doing the same shit they did last time with afghanistan during the cold war. Sectarian violence is running rampant.... ANOTHER ENEMY BREWS IN THE CHAOS -__- Oh america when will we learn

I think you are overdoing it! Russia doesn;t have interest in such trivial thigs, also China. only danger is USA. Russia already have almost everything and her economy is on high level, China is also superior, but USA have many problems with everything, not only economy, so they are always making some circus of their actions. Someone just must shut up their faces, and make them to live better, to change low, system of living and learning of youth and other things. nmot to mess up with other countries and continents, because own unsatisfaction!

>>179 War and hatred, truly the gift that keeps on giving ^_^

I wasn't going to reply to this thread but having read through it I've changed my mind.
First of the "bill" wasn't kept quiet. Its been public knowedgle for a while. Which brings me to my second point, the "bill" is an annual budget. It does not suspend the bill ofrights, it does not declear martial law, and it does not nessicarily apply to US citizens within the US. I could be made to but upon that action a suit could be filled to have the action overturned by the Supreme Court. Also I don't believe that the budget has been signed by Obama yet so its not effective and if it it has been it will not be active until 2012 or 2013.
Next you're all going on about Russia, China, Iraq, and ect. No one wants to replace the US as the hedgemon of the world. Its expensive and hard. No country is even close to being able to challenge the US militarily and no country can hope to dethrone the US without the world responding harshly. The US run the entire trade system of the world and single handled keeps most of the world from being engulfed in war all of the time. We expend billions of dollars make the world what it is today. It can't run without the US and while everyone likes to bitch about the US because they're somewhat running the game,they need the US and they know it. Russia might try to extend its influence in eastern europe, but it won't do much else. China is working worldwide just to try and keep up reasonably with the US but the gap is wide and they aren't closing it as well as most would have you believe. China is just becoming an industrial nation, the US is a post-industrial nation, its centuries ahead of China, the only reason any one talks about China and manufacturing is because we're in a ressesion.
Iraq was done for political reason, not WMD and we're not plling out. We're maintaining a large military presence there and its likely we'll be redeploying to both Iraq and Afganistan in the next ten years because they'll ask us to come back and hold the goverment together. Iran isn't any thing to worry aout, Isreal will bomb Iran before they let Iran have nuclear weapons. North Korea may or may not have nukes but they couldn't get them from N. Korea to the US if they're lives depended on it.
The US can't stay out of the world though, it is the world. Its the center of our geo-political system and it will remain so for at least the next hundred years. It can even retain that position for longer if it can get its internal politics straight. Not the domestic crap, that doesn't matter. Getting real politicians in to the goverment and eliminating party politics matters.

About the bill itself, it is just another type of insurance or tool. It doesn't take a genius to understand that US already practiced citizens detaining by mobilizing armed forces to do the job (hint hint: year 1942++). The difference here.

By having an actual bill there is no need to plunge the whole country in state of martial law to detain it's own citizens, for one reason on another. Now, currently there are like 2 viewpoints to this bill being passed...

1) The obedient citizen viewpoint: This bill will tremendously help the defense of our nation to protect it's citizens. It's the will of the people US citizens elected, they know better, leave it to the pros... We mustn't doubt our country.

2) The unconvinced citizen: So now the government has even more power over the rights and liberties of citizens now. It can be exploited for the benefit of the few and destruction of the many.

Both viewpoints are not incorrect. To efficiently protect, you need power and power corrupts. I still cannot dissect the whole situation and this is why:

Any armed forces are mobilized for the main purpose armed forces exist in the first place: to contain, dissolve, remove and destroy a "threat to the nation" it serves. So... The only true question we should ask each other and ourselves (and serves any viewpoint):

Which part of US citizens could the government classify as a "threat" that is worthy enough having armed forces mobilized against them for detainment? There are many more questions about this and of course, everyone has their own possible scenarios and conclusions reached, but mind you, it's not looking pretty.

>>182 and >>183
bumping for their contribution to this thread. Very interesting and good input. I suggest everyone read this entire thread, but right now I'm digging on what these two had to say.

bump

bomp

it's a ridiculous piece of shit bill, is what it is. at any time, the government can designate any group, or person as an anti-government group/activist, and assassinate/detain/torture them without a warrant, trial, or anything. it's basically telling americans "you have no rights to free speech, or opinion anymore."

while their at it, they might as well revoke our rights to play video games without being accused of terrorism, or eat a sandwich without being guilty of murdering an animal/poaching someone's stock.

america is going to the shitter. fast. we're falling into fascism. this bill has officially made our government more dangerous than the neo-national socialism of 1939-1945's germany.

hell, i'll be surprised if they don't assassinate or detain me for saying all of that. (you know, because the government monitors all digital data these days, and where it goes.)

Are y'all really surprised that the Senate is passing crap like this? They could care less what they pass once they're in office (look at SOPA/PIPA, for instance). They get paid off by lobbyists and are pretty much set for life once they're sworn in. They could care less about us normal everyday people.

I'm all for national security, but damn, this seems excessive. >>188 brings up a point, what happens if the government feels threatened by a peaceful assembly. There goes the First Amendment.

But, hey, who needs freedom? -_-

despite what may be said Obama probably wont veto this bill because HIS OWN Administration specifically requested that American's not be excluded from this legislation, as first drafted in the bill, or else he would veto it.

Even Plato knows this is the oldest trick in the book: "This and no other is the root from which a tyrant springs; when he first appears he is a protector."

Unfortunately historical evidence shows that this internal threat to our freedom is a guaranteed bummer waiting to happen.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLiKvSz_wX8

>>189>>190 and this is part of the reason why i, personally, think we, as Dollars, should establish the most simple, and minor of reputation. we don't need to be recognized by the public, we can remain hidden. however, we should at least make sure to do one recognized act of good for america, and the people. because at any time, the government can look at our site, and say "this is a large gathering of people, and are therefore a threat to the government.", which is less likely to be if we make our presence evident through good actions.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXDnTEGs_3E

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSEcnFM-osc

=/

This is all extremely bad, no matter how you look at it. Even if you think that by wording it doesn't pose much threat, we all know someone can interpret it in a way to abuse it, and consequently prosecute innocent groups like ours for "suspicion of terrorism". It could evolve into fascism, where such "suspicion" is just speaking out against the government. I know to many this seems very far-fetched, but let's be real: This can go really sour, really oppressive, and just downright WRONG very fast. Our country is on the fast-track to a radical side of the spectrum that we do NOT want to be on. In fact, we've fought against it before. Does anyone want to compare us to fascists publicly and shamelessly? No. because of the media and the government exaggerating things. This could turn back to late 19th century politics where the media gets paid off by whomever is in power to say what said person in power wants... IF it's not still going on (which I HIGHLY doubt). I have already posted the links to the sites about this info in other places, because we NEED to get the word out not just here, but everywhere, as this affects ANYONE AND EVERYONE in the U.S. When you compare this country to how it used to be... well, depending on the time frame, you can get different opinions... But the bottom line is that the government has wayyyy too much control, and Bush had wayyyyy too much control, but no one said anything BECAUSE the government had wayyy too much control over how the American people viewed those who would speak out against it. Yeah, that's right. If you didn't agree with Bush's policies whole-heartedly, especially after 9/11, you were probably censored, told to shut up, called a terrorist, told you weren't really American, all kinds of BS like that. People in this country need to be able to think for their own selves, be educated, know right from wrong, and dadgummit know what their rights and limits of the government are instead of going with what the government tells them, or what a political party tells them!!! I've seen this go on too much around me, and I'm so fed up.... Seeing this bill being passed doesn't surprise me at all. IT PISSES ME OFF. We all need to get pissed off, and even if you don't think it'll be that dangerous or violate that much, they can take it even further if they think they can get away with it. Then we'll REALLY be in a mess, though we are already. I can't vote yet, but I advise those who can to NOT reelect those senators who passed that bill, please and thank you. Also, we all need to get informed and not be the little ignorant little babies the government thinks we are.

Let us also not forget, these people fear not being reelected. They want to stay in power. So educate as many as you can!!!! They'll start to feel the heat, the possibility of losing their precious power because they won't be reelected, and THEN. THEN we may be able to get shit like this changed around here. At the end of the day , guess who gave these pricks their power? US. The freaking PEOPLE. We have to use our power to curb theirs. And quite frankly, they have too much....

>>193

I refuse to read this until it has been formatted in a manner that does not serve as a wall capable of stopping cannon fire.

>>194 well for your poor little eyes.....
This is all extremely bad, no matter how you look at it. Even if you think that by wording it doesn't pose much threat, we all know someone can interpret it in a way to abuse it, and consequently prosecute innocent groups like ours for "suspicion of terrorism". It could evolve into fascism, where such "suspicion" is just speaking out against the government. I know to many this seems very far-fetched, but let's be real: This can go really sour, really oppressive, and just downright WRONG very fast. Our country is on the fast-track to a radical side of the spectrum that we do NOT want to be on.

In fact, we've fought against it before. Does anyone want to compare us to fascists publicly and shamelessly? No. because of the media and the government exaggerating things. This could turn back to late 19th century politics where the media gets paid off by whomever is in power to say what said person in power wants... IF it's not still going on (which I HIGHLY doubt). I have already posted the links to the sites about this info in other places, because we NEED to get the word out not just here, but everywhere, as this affects ANYONE AND EVERYONE in the U.S. When you compare this country to how it used to be... well, depending on the time frame, you can get different opinions... But the bottom line is that the government has wayyyy too much control, and Bush had wayyyyy too much control, but no one said anything BECAUSE the government had wayyy too much control over how the American people viewed those who would speak out against it. Yeah, that's right. If you didn't agree with Bush's policies whole-heartedly, especially after 9/11, you were probably censored, told to shut up, called a terrorist, told you weren't really American, all kinds of BS like that. People in this country need to be able to think for their own selves, be educated, know right from wrong, and dadgummit know what their rights and limits of the government are instead of going with what the government tells them, or what a political party tells them!!!

I've seen this go on too much around me, and I'm so fed up.... Seeing this bill being passed doesn't surprise me at all. IT PISSES ME OFF. We all need to get pissed off, and even if you don't think it'll be that dangerous or violate that much, they can take it even further if they think they can get away with it. Then we'll REALLY be in a mess, though we are already. I can't vote yet, but I advise those who can to NOT reelect those senators who passed that bill, please and thank you. Also, we all need to get informed and not be the little ignorant little babies the government thinks we are.

Let us also not forget, these people fear not being reelected. They want to stay in power. So educate as many as you can!!!! They'll start to feel the heat, the possibility of losing their precious power because they won't be reelected, and THEN. THEN we may be able to get shit like this changed around here. At the end of the day , guess who gave these pricks their power? US. The freaking PEOPLE. We have to use our power to curb theirs. And quite frankly, they have too much....

>>194 I have a habit of writing a lot. It gets me exceeding scores on writing tests, so I'm not ashamed. :P besides, >>182 looks like mine did... just saying...

I'll apologize in advance if someone else said this because i dont wanna read all that...
http://www.change.org/petitions/stop-ndaa-section-1031-citizen-imprisonment-law-before-dec-13
If you see, there are about 23,480 signatures right now. However, with Anon's and the Dollars' (groups, subgroups, ppl here, etc) influence, I'm assuming a good amount is under 18...which means it won't really mean anything.
Please try to get everyone over 18 sign it.
This really sux. :/

About the input on this bill being an annual budget and the great arguments given above yes i understand the need for the budget, THE ONLY PART THAT PEOPLE ARE AGAINST IS THE PROVISION OF THE GOVERNMENT TO OFFICIALLY FORGO OUR RIGHT TO TRIAL.. I know shit sucks but dude comeon even Dahmur was given due process..

MY ISSUE IS DUR PROCESS, WITHOUT IT NO MATTER HOW "CIVILIZED" A NATION WE CLAIM TO BE, WE BECOME AS TYRANNICAL AS THOSE WE CLAIM TO BE OUR ENEMIES...

*due process

>>197 >>198 They can't legally forgo due process. Due process is a constitutional right, and the constitution is the supreme law.

Crisis,

that is the entire point of this issue here. The fact that they're about to unanimously overturn a constitutional right under our noses.

what >>200 says

bump

I think if we're obviously smart enough to notice this, they should be too.

>>197 well aware and based on my education in law, my degree in political science, and knowledge of American history I'm telling you that the application of that part is not intended to be used in the way people are suggesting. The reason it seem angering is because people assume it would go unchecked and is automatic. Frankly put most of you don't understand what is said in that section of the bill, you're upset because a dude in a mask and John Stewart told you to be. The way our political system works, there is no possible way to use the "bill" as many are suggesting. Even if it occurred there are systems in place to over-ride and undo the action as well as strike the "bill" down. Aside from that as soon as it was done the backlash would likely rip the whole nation apart. So stop and think for yourself. The fact this is so upsetting for you is because its not possible within the legal system of the US. Still you've assumed its happening, but its not so what are you upset about?

>>204 Validates points because he has "x,y and Z degrees"
Spends time on a BBS.
Lol
Look, I'm not bagging on you, or your degrees, but that isn't a very valid way to back up your points. Anyone can say that. Besides, when you come here,and say that, its condescending to everyone else you doesn't have these special pieces of paper, yet still have intelligent input.

from >>204 it seems you are criticizing our response to the situation, because we idolize a few people, and also due to our lack of information and/or intelligence.

The bill is unconstitutional.
Need proof?
http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/bill_of_rights.html

>>203 You make a point.
But remember,these are the same fuckers that said pizza sauce counts as a vegetable.
1. What the fuck?
2. Tomatoes have been deemed a fruit, therefore making pizza sauce a fruit smoothie of some sort..lol
3. They get paid to do shit. We learned this in government. They take so many vacations, and don't get shit done.

Bump

bump

bump

we are Anonymous the dollars we are power we live for waht is right the DO;;ARS!

The admins and elders of this should know what i am trying to say. We're not the blue squares or the yellow scarves, we're not a color gang. We are not supposed to be noticed, we do good. We are not called to be noticed when we do good deeds. The DOLLARS are transparent, we are to be as noticeable as see-through glass, to hide in the shadows.

Thank you,
Refboarder8

>>Coff1N one rule of internets states that you claiming you have said degrees one lets do the maths, you are probably from states, and and i highly doubt your in your late thirtees so i would now say shut the fuck up. :)

BACKLASH you serious dude you IDIOT WE JUST TALKED ABOUT A GUY WHO WAS ASSASINATED BY AMERICA CUZ OF TERRORISM, WITHOUT DUE PROCESS, IT HAS ALREADY HAPPENED

please read all the posts before insulting me by saying i base my opinions on others words instead of gathering my own facts...

>>Refboarder8 dude um anyone can do whatever they want with dollars.. and it can become whatever we want dont take the group too seriously about being noticed. There are good things and bad things about being noticed or not, if you dont wanna get noticed then dont do things and use dollars in your explanation, if you do want us to be known then throw it in a sentence or two.

>>204 I've actually read up on it myself, from other sources BESIDES the video, thank you very much. There is reason to fear it, because, quite frankly, if they feel they can get away with THIS, they'll feel they can get away with MORE, and it'll just get more and more out of hand until we can't do anything about it, as long as they continue to get away with it. If you think for a SECOND that AMERICAN politicians won't abuse power, you haven't lived in America very long. xD

Welcome to the bloody USA, everyone. :D (That's what my friend told me when she heard about this--obviously she knows they do plenty of stuff behind our backs, as I've learned from doing my own research.)

i never liked our government..

our government never liked you either, unless your lobbyists, or a government official that will help other members in it to get re-elected

>>216 How true.... Those who get into power... want to stay in power....

and are also greedy and want money. :D .-.

true true

bump

awesome

>>200 Which can't legally be done. It would have to be clearly in non-violation of our rights in order to pass trial by the Supreme Court.

The Daily Show gives a funny but true perspective lol
http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-december-7-2011/arrested-development?xrs=playershare_fb

>>221 Yeah well the supreme court doesnt get involved when rights are provisioned to be taken away if the person is deemed an enemy of the state... thats the issue again do you just ignore my posts dude? come on read every fact given in the thread especially if its this controversial, dont just single one out.

>>223 No, I still believe it would go to the Supreme Court. They review any cases involving rights and controversial issues. It would find its way there, but it could take some time and even then it may not be abolished. We need to stop this before it is given chance to affect us.

>>212 Oh, right! the dude that disavowed his American citizenship, was an active combatant and not in this country, yeah, we shouldn't have shot him.
>>213 Of course politicians abuse power. Its what they do, they actively seek to expand their power. This isn't any different than the alien and sedition acts. Plus we have the added benefit of having had the court case that overturned those acts.
>>224
My exact point. Even if the individuals that this "bill " was used on didn't bring it to the court someone would and then it would be overturned.
The US military is not running through the streets of America kicking down doors arresting and killing US citizens. Its not happening, its not going to happen. If it were going to happen and politically motivated republicans would be disappearing left and right. We're not under martial law, the constitution is still in place and it still serves as grounds to undo the passing of this bill and prevent or at least stop the continual execution of this bill.

As for my education and age, go eat a dick. You think I'm new to forums. I validated my points through argument in the post prior to that one, you just stopped paying attention so maybe you should read all of the replies. I for some reason assumed this was a debate not 4chan. Had I know I was till there I'd have just posted a meme and called it a day. Don't rage so hard.
Sidenote: you graduate from college in your twenties not thirties.

You can go to College at any age, so what age you 'graduate from College' is irreverent.

bump.

bump

They've amended the bill to exempt u.s. citizens and non-resident aliens.

::IMPORTANT UPDATE:: The NDAA S.1867 passed the House of Representative yesterday. Additionally, it was announce yesterday that the war in Iraq has officially ended.

With the new NDAA S.1867, there is no need to officially be in a state of war; as the bill permits all action previously sanctioned only in a state of war to be within the constant authority of the federal government even in a state of peace.

>>229
No they didn't. You should read the bill as it was passed by the Senate; http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c112:S.1867:. There are no "exemptions". The idea of exemption is confused with and stems from the wording here:
-Taken from NDAA S.1867 for 2012 [Engrossed in Senate/Passed Senate] Section 1032-
(b) Applicability to United States Citizens and Lawful Resident Aliens-
(1) UNITED STATES CITIZENS- The requirement to detain a person in military custody under this section does not extend to citizens of the United States.
(2) LAWFUL RESIDENT ALIENS- The requirement to detain a person in military custody under this section does not extend to a lawful resident alien of the United States on the basis of conduct taking place within the United States, except to the extent permitted by the Constitution of the United States.

Notice is states "requirement to detain". This wording does not mean "authority/permission to detain". If you read the ENTIRE bill and attain a grasp on the language, you will see what is being said here. The military is going to be under ORDER to detain individuals; the requirement to detain not extending to Person A and Person B does not mean that Person A and Person B CANNOT be detained. It means that the military has the option to detain; in all other situations, the military is REQUIRED to detain. Please, read the bill.

>>204 >>225
Afraid he wasn't an active combatant, yo :/. Even if he was, it doesn't matter. He was killed outside of combat, an assassination without due process, an unconstitutional action against a US Citizen, no matter how detrimental that individual may be to the country and/or society UNLESS IN COMBAT.

Additionally, you are assuming we all watch John Stewart and/or keep up/agree with Anonymous. I don't know about others, but my information and opinions stem from research, news articles and political discussions/debates with fellow employees at my office. You shouldn't be so quick to judge and mudsling like that, it takes away credibility to the points you are trying to make.

>>221 >>223 >>224
I would hope that cases involving this would end up making it to the Supreme Court if the power granted through this bill is used unjustifiably; however, this seems to be a grey area as the bill forgoes due process, thereby a wrongfully detained citizen will get the opportunity to attempt to bring this to court ONLY if they are released from custody. Many people are detained by authorities wrongfully or by mistake and are released, but that doesn't merit a court case. I have a hard time imagining this will be any different. But I could be wrong. I hope I'm wrong.

>>230

Figured I'd add this onto that

The House vote came after the White House said that President Barack Obama will not veto the bill as it was satisfied with the changes made in it.

"As a result of these changes, we have concluded that the language does not challenge or constrain the President's ability to collect intelligence, incapacitate dangerous terrorists, and protect the American people, and the President's senior advisors will not recommend a veto," White House Press Secretary Jay Carney said.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/us/US-House-passes-legislation-to-freeze-Pak-aid/articleshow/11115931.cms

I'm just hoping it doesn't make it past the Supreme Court.

THIS IS STUPID! THE GOVERNMENT CAN'T DO THIS! THIS IS THE CORRUPITION OF ANYTHING THE GOVERNMENT IS!

>>233 This is boring. Main should be about the anime: turned real. But I guess this should go under suggestions. Or not. -_-

>>234 this is not boring. this is real, wtf is ur problem u shud be worried because this won't really be america anymore, it's turning into some military led dictatorship like north korea.

We've given the government enough power as is, we need to do something about this!!!!

>>234 This is not a fucking anime fansite, ass clown! Don't get me wrong, I love anime. Regardless, this is much more than some damn fansite, this is a home to some people, fagly!

tl;dr - eat a dick, Sekai!

>>234 Main board is for overarching dollar issues. since a large portion of the dollars are in America and groups like this can be, albeit through some severe misunderstandings, in danger from things like this. suggestions is for potential site additions or changes anyways.

>>223 No, I don't songle you out, so I'm sorry if you feel that I do. But we shouldn't wait until arrested before challenging it. if it violates constitutional rights, I plan on taking it to court before anyone is arrested at all.

>>229 That way it wouldn't violate constitutional rights, but could you please link a source for that?

>>231 Remember the Deptartment of State ruling I posted on wether Anwar was a citizen?

>>239
I remember what you posted in >>71 about dual citizenship, but I don't recall any ruling by the Department of State in regards to whether or not he was still a US Citizen. I know we debated it, but I don't think we linked any material such as that.

bump for order

I am enjoying this conversation. And I am going to be bumping, by bringing in some good news for a moment.
*ahem*
The internet censorship bill?
Obama promises to Veto it. SO we still have some time before our internets is fucked.

Okay..
back to your regularly scheduled programs.

>>242 Oh hey, that's good news. Until they try to push it passed him anyway, since it's entirely possible to overturn a veto.

:| in which case I don't think there was any hope from the start.

hey bitch i joined because there no rule. and give me orders fuck you. i can put whatever i want bitch

Cool story bro, nobody gives a fuck.

hey guys, remember that we are a colorless group & no need to say stuff like that...keep it PG

bump for discussion

>>244 lol wut.
>>246 What are you...8?

Probably... he didnt even put pg13.
Its always interesting when insert bumps main threads in comparison to what everyone else bumps

lol. why is that?

Because he bumps up all the intellectually stimulating shtuff, while everyone else bumps up the groups for the most part, with only one or two intellectual shtuff

>>244 we do not have "NO RULES" we have "VERY FEW RULES" and since i assume you're bitching and whining because someone called you out on one of those rules. so kindly shape up or GTFO please.

>>244
No. No you won't. Thanks and have a good day, moron.

god damn i am making no sense when im typing lately....

>>252

*and i'll assume you're...

>>251 Most likely because everyone's got the groups covered already? Insert knows his shit, in any case.

Also this is completely off topic, starting from >>244

I don't think his idiotic outburst needed that much attention :/

neee-nee let us be kind to each other btw ive heard goverment is planning some crazy stuff for the future like John lennon said the gov is runned by some crazy people no doubt illuminati someone?

Ahh~ Interesting. Giving Government too much power... Geeze. Better not end in anarchy~!
Should we be concerned? Possibly. But who am i to judge. Maybe crime rate will go down- Or heck! Some good might come out of it... But who knows.
And of course The bill was passed on my birthday._.'

bump for great justice

apparently a friend is telling me NDAA passed today... i trust him in cases like this, but it seems so far out to have passed.

Could you guys imagine what would happen if this passed? No more dollar site... scary, imma have nightmares for a while now.

It already has passed. Even though almost everyone was against it.
Next, the Internet Bill WILL pass, then. They think they have a right to take away what's ours, yet when it's too much, people will revolt against them. I mean, history has showed this many fucking times. Then we're back to America not being America, but a blank slate, in which we're still fucked.

>>261 Obama already stated that he WILL veto that if it passes.

No. Only SENATE has passed it. No one else, as of yet. Also, the Internet bill CANNOT pass as that is a violation of a Constitutional Amendment. Some people here need to crack open a government book and stop being so paranoid.

"The National Defense Authorization Act is a United States federal law that has been enacted for each of the past 48 years to specify the budget and expenditures of the United States Department of Defense.
A recent controversial provision in the NDAA act for 2012 has received critical attention because Section 1031 allows for the indefinite detention of U.S. citizens, and Section 1032 requires that the detention be by the armed forces in the case of non-citizens. As passed, the 2012 bill includes language in Section 1032 stating the intent is not to change existing common law, such as Hamdi v. Rumsfeld and Hamdan v. Rumsfeld, which ruled that lawful United States citizens have the right to challenge their detention before an impartial judge and military commissions (such as those at Guantanamo Bay) lack the power to proceed, respectively. Citizens of the United States are statutorily excluded only from the "requirement for military custody" in Section 1032, which provides the executive branch discretion whether to indefinitely detain U.S. citizens within military detention centers, or alternatively in the Federal prison system. Full text of S. 1867 as passed.
The bill passed with 93 'yea' votes to 7 'nay' in the U.S. Senate, and is now available for view by the public.[5] On December 14, 2011, the bill was passed by the United States House of Representatives, with a 283–136 vote in favor. On December 15, 2011, the bill was passed by the United States Senate, with a 86–13 vote in favor. The bill will be signed into law by President Barack Obama on December 16, 2011."

So tell me, what do you think about that? Obama already said he is singing it.

Also, that too is against our already stated rights. What's going to stop them from passing the Internet Bill? Us? they don't fucking care.

>>263 no, heard obama passed it too

fuck, i really gotta learn to not be lazy and read the big intimidating block of text like in >>264. i'd say he ninja's me, but i was just being lazy.

>>264
It is amazing how fast this bill has moved through legislation. In a matter of three days, the federal laws are changing dynamically. It is amazing and frightening that a bill of this magnitude could move so quickly through all of Congress.

We will see the NDAA S.1867 passed into law today. Following, we will see the SOPA enacted. What can we do about it? Spread knowledge. Increase awareness. Stir an awakening by providing everyone you can information, news sources, links, articles in regards to this. People need to open their eyes and cease living in apathy and ignorance.

You all are amazing people for caring enough to talk about this; hopefully, the rest of the population, hopefully our generation, hopefully our society will take in interest in their lives on a grand scale and become like you all.

Addition links for information:
>>CFR Meeting- Zbigniew Brzezinski Fears Global Political Awakening (While the video lasts; FYI, copies of this video keep being taken down!)
>>Brzezinski Decries “Global Political Awakening” During CFR Speech

>>268 FUCK. just FUCK

All i can say is though i love my folks, i hope to god these 2 months pass i feel to anxious being here... Buhh i still love you Georgia (the land) its not your fault Washington sucks major infected Penises

bump

bump

AMAZING how they'll all agree to strip us of our rights quickly, but REFUSE to settle on a fucking ANNUAL BUDGET.... They only settle on pretty short-term stuff when it comes to the budget, and even THEN they take half the year (bit of an exaggeration, but a good point for frustration)... The only reason they agreed on anything yesterday, averting that government shutdown, was so that they could keep this ting passing through.

>>268 They're making this another... Egypt. Yeah, remember when the government over their restricted their internet so severely? Yeah, good luck with that, U.S. government. If you think EGYPT had a hard time pulling that shit off, wait till you try to do that HERE.
Eh, they'll probably get too lazy to keep it up... As usual.... No wait one of them will find it takes too much money and because of it the government is spending too much.. pahahahaha

In any case, this is what happens when a world power gets scared or feels the need for excessive security. The government gets too much power and the people don't rule anymore. Or, at least it COULD happen, if we allow this thing to go through. The government needs to realize we're not a bunch of babies they can boss around, a bunch of babies who don't know that this is for "their own good"....

We KNOW what's for our own good, and what's for the good of this country, and it DOESN'T include these bills. I feel for the people who have been swindled into believing that this bill is so "innocent".

I don't want ANYONE snooping in on what I post on the internet, or what I tell my friends on the internet, ESPECIALLY not the government.... No telling how many pervs are up there....

(just saying haha)

Dollars:
The military and the government think we all need no rights at all, no matter who we are. That is what this whole thing is saying. I don't like it, I never have, and the government needs to learn that they can't limit us without limits of their own. They are basically saying "we're treating you like a terrorist 24/7, you deserve no rights."

Hello yukiP^^ long time no see. Hahahah!! Do you remember hidan and izaya?:)

>>240 Right. While no definite ruling was public, there's a good chance that since Lybia doesn't recognize dual citizenship, and given the Deptartment of State's policy on the matter, there is a strong possiblity that Anwar did indeed lose citizenship. And with the actions taken by the government, and his renunciation of his citizenship, it would be safe to assume that he was no longer and American citizen. That's all speculation of course. I just wanted to state the possibility.

hey guys, not sure if this has been stated yet, but putting it out here before i leave

i think the bill voting was put on hold until next year

Yea

>>278 good more time to spread the word!

bump

>>137 i believe you have the right mindset but do you think the government would allow anyone to really get in there way?

>>282 okay, you do realize that the middle and lower class outnumber the upper class and government officials greatly, right? We just need enough people to give a fuck and do something about it, and we can change anything.

>>276 -le gasp- I doooooo. Man how are you? Never expected to find you here haha. xD (On this thread I mean)

bump

I Am Very Proud To Be One Of The Dollars......

bump

bump

i agree this bill is troublesome but usefull crimminals are no longer among us if it works.

We're all just herded sheep.

Until they consider you a criminal because they think your a threat to national security because you said something they don't like.

this will be a problem in the future.

We have to stand up to this. The weapon that we have as the dollars is that we are secret. People outside the dollars may just see us as a fan website. But we are the force of the 99%. So we can use this to lead the way against the so called elite in our society!

bull... this cannot be

>>294 idiot read before just making a reply, be intelligent, inputs that are meaningless makes your participation to said discussion meaningless..

This is obviously not true. People are bending the examples completely. Get your facts straight, they can't literary take away the Bill of Rights. If they were to do what this guy is saying, the citizens of the US would go crazy and overthrow and riots. The US Senate understands this, so there's no way they would do this. I would like a more reliable resource if I was to believe this was true.

>>296 As soon as you're accused of being a terrorist the government can revoke your citizen shit you become an enemy of the state and the Bill of Rights no longer applies to you. Notice I said accused no proof is actually needed for the government to do this. At least that's what I read from the bill itself.

Honestly America is becoming totally messed up.

Becoming? It wasn't messed up before?

It was but its more messed up now than ever before!
To the point of where its just plain scary!

weather our not the dollars should get involved with anonymous has been talked about for long time but i think we should all be more concerned with S.O.P.A bill

>>302 if that bill is passed i think this site(and many like it)will be ended. the SOPA bill and these^ bills run "head in head" in my opinion. if you got arrested for singing a song on you[tube] you could then be charged and put in jail for up to 5 years.

IDIOTS DONT POST HERE UNTIL ACTUALLY READING EVERYTHING, THE ARGUMENT IS THAT POWER TO DO THIS IS IN PLACE, NOT IF THEY WILL DO IT, BECAUSE THAT ARGUMENT HAS OCCURRED AND HAS TAKEN PLACE, BUT THEY WERENT DETAINED THEY WERE KILLED

Now read first dont throw opinions like i know Kitsu you didnt even read the legislature how you sound are one of those it cant happen because our bill of rights dude, you think our founding fathers would approve of how everything was handled?

Nice video effects, but I'm not buying that crap it's probably some kid know how to DoS someone and then therefore think they are some legit-hacker pro. It's just a punk trying to mess with us.

bump. people are crazy with their politics sometiems :T

bleebloop.

bump
Have you been paying attention to the other things happening in politics and law recently?

yeah, canididates in states suck so Obama is gonna get re-elected noone is bringing anything good, herman cain had some good economic proposals but he just screams extreme conservative and dont matter the whole army of prostitutes gunned him down...

Pakistan is pissed at American soldiers using drones and killed their soldiers on accident, Obama apologized 2x they still pissed

on a side note FUCKIN IDIOT DRONE OPERATORS AND DUDE ITS NOT A FUCKING VIDEO GAME YOU DOUCHEBAGGS SO MUCH SHIT HAPPENING FROM ACCIDENTAL MISSLE OR GUNNING OF PEOPLE, fuck i mean almost all the "accidents" or should i say idiocy occured in nonstressed situations meaning ground units were far from being in harms way of the innocent people they killed....

back on topic, China is looking into how things play with U.S. and Pakistan. China will back pakistan to the ends of the earth due to its interests in the raw materials in afghanistan.

So far thats all i got, put inputs anyone who sees anything interesting or hears anything

Bump

hey, the title says it. :I

bunp

Bump

>>309 thats all i paid attention to now

Yup, freedom doesn't exist and more stuff like this will happen. Doesn't surprise me though, sadly. Bumpz

yup. so uh....bump for the new members o/

yeah i havent seen much new guys comment on this

It stinks to me. I feel that anything could happen right now, whether it be bad or good. All we can do is prepare and keep together. If you ask me, I picked one hell of a day to join the Dollars.

Bump to get the word out

What are you guys talking about even. The Dollars are an act of fiction from a fucking anime, you guys are not like some real organization. Honestly your all probably angsty emo teenagers trying to act obscure and deep even though you just have daddy issues.

>>321
1. Why are you posting this here, on the thread about detention of citizens?
2. If we're an act of fiction, why the fuck are we here now? You DO KNOW we're not the dollars from the anime, we're an organization INSPIRED by the idea from the anime, herpderp.
3. You're part of the dollars too, you angsty emo teenager with daddy issues who's trying to act obscure and deep.

Anonymo is right, we were INSPIRED by the Dollars in the anime. This is not a fan site.

I don't know man, I'm pretty much an angsty emo teenager trying to act obscure and deep even though I just have daddy issues

Pretty spot on, faggot

This is some serious shit! We as American Citizens cannot stand for this! We have to let the government know that we don't serve it, it serves us! We have to stand up for our rights!

is it really this bad, i say everyones going to drift off and......man fuck this law,
*short answer

I believe a wise man once said... FUCK DA POLICE!!!

>>327 That man is now being indefinitely detained by the military.

I totally agree.

I agreee

Anyone have anything to say other than 'I agree'? it'd be interesting to get your inputs now, even if its already been said. Explanation would be better ;3

bump

bump

Tu

bum

ALL RITE TIME FOR ALL OF US TO GO AND TRAIN ON A SNOWY MOUNTAIN TOP FOR 5YRS AND TAKE OUR COUNTRY BACK YEAH!!!!!! NOW WHOSE WHIT ME

@Happy end
Holy shit are you retarded. Fuck off back to >>>/gai/ or whatever naruto shithole you came from

he is just a wittle excited dont be too mean to the poor lad, did wish he and all those i agreers actually put an opinion that sounded like they did some of the research on out world events before posting

I thought that was called life in prison. Under what circumstances could they detain somone permantly. Unless they've committed some sort of malicious crime.

read it and all it has to say and all the opinions before posting an opinion just based on the title -__- >>340 fuck you didnt even read me getting mad at people just agreeing without reading the whole thing.

There was a provision made in a bill that basically states when situation warrants the government can bypass due process and allow for detention. Not unlike how japanese americans were treated during the WWII but instead of within the borders where their treatment maybe scrutinized, it would be outside the borders. And with the track records so far i doubt it be as comfortable as the Japanese camps were. Dude do you not read American history?

bump. whoa. looks like there's gonna be a debate? :Y derpherpderp.

twosies! :D oh well. anyone into this though? o3o

Bumping this for replacing the thread duplicate.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2011/12/31/statement-president-hr-1540

As said by the OP of the duplicate, pass this link along and all that good stuff.

...

From the website:

Second, under section 1021(e), the bill may not be construed to affect any "existing law or authorities relating to the detention of United States citizens, lawful resident aliens of the United States, or any other persons who are captured or arrested in the United States."

And since the Contsituion is the supreme law of the land, and the amendments are part of the Contstitution, this means there can be no arrest without due process, trial by a jury of peers, or indefinite detainment.

Also from Whitehouse.gov:

Moreover, I want to clarify that my Administration will not authorize the indefinite military detention without trial of American citizens. Indeed, I believe that doing so would break with our most important traditions and values as a Nation. My Administration will interpret section 1021 in a manner that ensures that any detention it authorizes complies with the Constitution, the laws of war, and all other applicable law.

Like I said, I wasn't terribly worried about this.

Again sorry constitution didnt stop us from detaining japanese-american citizens, also there is a section that says in times of war basically citizens are also included, dont have much patience to go through the whole thread but its there read it

And I never agreed with the U.S. detaining Japanese-American citizens in WWII, anyone in the Civil War, or anyone during the Red Scare. But with section 1021(e), anyone a citizen, or with a proper visa can't be dismissed their rights.

Bump

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/daphne-eviatar/promises-promises-preside_b_1182067.html

But the NDAA wasn't all bad when it comes to U.S. military detention policy. In fact, section 1024 of the law, spearheaded by Senators John McCain and Lindsey Graham, provides detainees held indefinitely in Afghanistan with the right to a military defense lawyer and a neutral military judge to evaluate whether their detention is lawful and necessary. The provision was not particularly controversial and garnered little media attention; Congress apparently understood that for the U.S. to maintain any legitimacy while imprisoning some 3,000 Afghans in their own country it has to provide them basic rights to defend themselves. The current summary review proceedings at Bagram, which I wrote about in a report for Human Rights First after observing them last year, doesn't come anywhere near doing that.

President Obama's signing statement, however, suggests he plans to ignore that part of the law he just signed:

"Sections 1023-1025 needlessly interfere with the executive branch's processes for reviewing the status of detainees. Going forward, consistent with congressional intent as detailed in the Conference Report, my Administration will interpret section 1024 as granting the Secretary of Defense broad discretion to determine what detainee status determinations in Afghanistan are subject to the requirements of this section."

In other words, the president has just thumbed his nose at Congress and said the Defense Secretary will provide whatever review procedure he wants to. And he's done that in a particularly cynical manner, claiming that Congress is interfering with executive power merely by demanding that the executive be held accountable for its exercise.

>>349 He says that, but that doesn't mean he's bound to it but even if he sticks to his word a future president doesn't have to.

This is why i HATE politics. T_T

I need to know of ANY country that has their laws and policies figured out and actually agreed to by it's citizens so I can live there. lol. ^_^;

>>355 Canada, at least that's where I'm going.

this does seem to be a problem.But how do we go about it?

So this is world wide now or is this only in the US?

>>358 It's a US law but it affects the entire world because the bill declares the entire world as a battlefield. So basically The US is giving itself the power to act anywhere in the world.

Holy shit, people. This Is bad for all of everyone (just now read every comment) THis goes against the U.S. Constitution. We as a group should get into this more because this is really important

>>360 No it doesn't. Read the damned bill, specifically section 1021(e).

>>361
I'll have to re-read that part to see what you are talking about. Thanks for the educational input!

Yeah, this is totally the sorta stuff we gotta keep up to date on! I'm looking this up to find any details on this

Why would a law be passed that allows for ANY basic rights to be denied to suspected citizens by the government?! This is crazy

>>362 No problem. I have it copyed and pasted from whitehouse.gov in post 348.

>>364 Read. It doesn't.

>>365 Ok I just read your post thing. Haha thanks, much more informative than the other site I saw

>>366 Hey, no problem at all. Just glad I can help.

bump

bump

Bump.

bump

done being an American from now on i am only a Member of The Dollars! Bump

lol

they cannot just grab Americans without going to court. This doesn't effect us at all. You needn't worry about being grabbed up in the middle of the night. We actual citizens still have our rights.

I agree.

Again, I kinda call BS. Then again politics are boring and not my thing

Same here.

bump

-get bat hits this comment- BUMPS UP!!!!

Stop commenting on this.

Who the fuck are you to tell us not to bump this? It's more important than '2012' or about the chat or wishing people a happy fucking new year. It's an ACTUAL topic of discussion, so don't tell US not to post on it.

DA! hes right wait why do i care -_-....0u0 ahh i dont care it fun to argue tehehe

Calm down, really... must you over react?

My opinion, I honestly think this is a lie but whatever, I could care less what other peoples opinions were and I bet you feel the same way about my comment.

By the way, don't reply on my comment unless its something nice...

I'm not going to just IGNORE your posts if it's stupid, just because you want me to play nice.

wow ryuu ur o-o.......................................eue sexy lol jk

Fine, then ill just ignore your posts ^^

>>388
Why
Are
You
Not
Banned yet?

WHAT THE CRAPOLA why would u want me banned

Is that a word?

-_- have u ever watched hitalia...no then u should its funnny ehehehhehehe no jk its a anime about history but so fukin fun

Oh?

>>391
Screw it, I'm going to sleep again.

When I wake up, this would've all been a dream and any proof of your existence will be gone, because I'm desperately hoping you're just a figment of my imagination.

WELL I AM PRITTY DREAMY ;)

..Is Ivan Braginski trolling? Im sorry if that sounds rude..its just all of your comments seem really off o_o

No one knows...

dude my brains a little off ...my docter told me -_- no joke

-laughs a little- sorry

naahhh it cool i can still make tea, ramen and read, type and go crazy as an otaku soo im good

Ok.

Well, I'm going. I hope the chatroom will be back up soon. ^^ Not rushing or anything :)

so yah ima be pissed if the goverment take our porn or eny other websites and i will start a rebel group called the soveit union and crush the usa o-o heheh become one with mother russia

Bye everyone!

bump

bump

Bump

BAMP!

bump

Ryuu

So will it be Obama again or Mit Romney, I say Mit Romney is gonna get the republican card he has such good momentum and he is really handling himself well.

oh and this this is a bump

Well, time to start packing the bags and plan on moving out of the US of A.

>>411

There are other options besides Republican and Democrat. We, the citizens of the United States, should place our votes on an independant party!! RAWR

>>411

Just as long as Rick Perry doesn't get elected. He ticks me off... I wouldn't mind Romney, he seems like he's the only one who has stayed with it.

Dang theres alot of ppl on dis

Liam Gallagher for president.

We either need Dr. Ron Paul or Mr. Gary Johnson as our new leader.

bump

alfred e neuman for president he has a great sense of humor and has been around since i was a kid "There are Bigger Idiots running for office!" 80s-90s kids you know who i am talkin about

Fuck the Democrats and Republicans. Shit..fuck all politicians. No matter who we elect, they are corrupt. We need this government to return to the peoples.

But, I digress...

Any thirdparty or liberals out there?

>>421 *Raises hand* My thoughts as well.

Glad I'm not the only third-party guy out there!

Third party for life. I've hated the two-party since I was a kid, and now that I understand it more....yeah, it just seems even more idiotic.

>>421 Can anyone one man embody the American population successfully? However, I will forever be optimistic. The right man has put this country in a better spot before.

Bump above saged.

bump

bumping permasaged threads off the page

For now all I can think about is spreading the word and trying to convince large popular websites to do blackouts and post information about the effects of SOPA it can spread the word.

██ ████████ ██████ ██████████ ██ ████ ██ ████ ██████████ ██. ███ ███ This comment has been found in violation of H.R. 3261, S.O.P.A and has been removed.

i know that this doesn´t have anything to do with the subjekt but i promised myself that i would do this.
there is a facebook group for dollars called Unity Law.
wanna join?
then you gotta ask for friendship of the guy that made the group.
his name is
Adam Ace Eriksson.
i hope ill see you at facebook^^