One of my recent topics here(which I noticed is still ongoing) was about the upcoming generation of home Video Game consoles. With a look at 2 next-gen engines: Square Enixs' Luminous Studio Engine and Epic Games' Unreal Engine 4, we now know the capabilities of the next generation. Now its time for something less talked about: Virtual Reality.

The idea of Virtual Reality, VR for short, was created in the early 1980's and was overhyped when it was attempted in the early 1990's, leading many to altogether forget about it because it was such a big failure. However, R&D(Research and Development) has continued to this very day, and as of recent years, we are getting ever closer to the realization of this dream.

The dream, is to put players, either mentally, or physically into a virtual world and stimulate all 5 of their senses simultaneously, giving them the impression that they are truly there. In the 1980's, this was the stuff of Fantasy, in the 1990's, this was but a dream. In the 21st Century, its a reality.

2 pieces of technology indicate just how close we've come to achieving this dream. The first is Sony's HMD(Head Mounted Display) which has 2 3D 3-inch HD screens on the inside, allowing you to see things from a realistic first-person perspective. The second of the two which is a year older than the Sony HMD, is known as the Virtual Cocoon. It too, is a head mounted device. However, it does not focus on just one sense. It focuses on all 5 sense: Taste, Feeling, Touch, Hearing, and Smell. Not long before this, we invented a device that allows the user to control things with mere thought.

If this does not indicate the imminent arrival of true Virtual Reality, I don't know what will. While Virtual Reality has many practical uses in many fields, it is mainly associated with gaming, as that is the field where most of the advances have been made. If I had to guess, it'll be less than 15-20 years before we see true Virtual Reality, possibly even 5 years if it goes fast enough. I want to know what everyone else thinks. Please, discuss.

Virtual Reality is almost a reality.

http://www.novint.com/index.php/novintxio

Well, thats definitely along the lines. Though what i'm talking about is more mental than physical. If you've seen .Hack, you'll know what i'm thinking of. Complete immersion, with virtually(no pun intended) no real physical movement involved. This arm device is a step in the right direction though.

Virtual Reality?

Interesting.

Very interesting. It won't be long until we have it in some form or another.

Perhaps electrical nodes that stimulate a response such as pain, adrenaline, etc.?

I forget where I read that they were thinking about nanomachines, but that seems like something for the larger machines that you would find in an arcade or for medical VR uses.

>>6 Um really? You DO realize that if that's the case, when you fall in the game and 'break your leg', you'll literally get the feeling of LITERALLY BREAKING YOUR LEGS

>>8 Zero , you misunderstood ...

It would be a cool thing as long as it was mostly just a head set and a controller,if you actually had to move your body to act in the virtual world it could actually hurt you in the real world.

>>10 You likely won't need a controller. I agree that physically moving is pointless. Its not true virtual reality like most seem to think it is. All you'll really need is the headset. The HMD pictured above would be just a part of it. There's also tech that allows you to control things with mere thought. Combine the two and you easily have the simplest form of Virtual Reality. The most complex one being similar to Code Lyoko where you are physically put into the game. But the whole put on a suit stuff, yah no, that ain't virtual reality.

Okay when I see and think about a virtual reality I do think of .Hack and other mangas that include the virtual reality of gaming, >>6 & >>8 Yes there should be a feeling to a users body, but not immense "I'M GOING TO DIE!!!" pain. And after reading some manga, if someone does make a game with a working virtual reality, your body shouldn't be moving in the real world as well, so it should be usable when the user is sleeping. That way, the user isn't moving their body in real life as they are in the game, so the game accesses their subconsciousness to create the reality.

>>12 Using it while sleeping huh? Thats one thing I didn't think of. As far as feeling should go, you should be able to feel everything your touching realistically, but if say you get stabbed or shot, it should just feel like a bump or a hard impact.

>>13 Yeah, I wouldn't like to feel like I've actually been shot or stabbed, but the pain should stay close enough to it.

Also, a major problem if virtual reality actually comes out, you have hardcore gamers that may have problems, or normal people running into problems. If a user becomes too far into the game, then it's likely that they will begin thinking that the actual reality of their real life IS the virtual reality and start hurting people or going mentally insane. A lot of people have already begun doing things like that in real life too, there have already been stories of teens or adults that have become too obsessed with gaming that they hurt people in real life. That could be a dangerous factor when virtual reality becomes an actual part of everyday life.

>>14 Well, see, the thing is, i'm a hardcore gamer, and I know better than that. Sure, when I finally get to enter a Virtual World, i'm definitely going to prefer it to reality and try to spend alot of time in there to help my sanity. Though I still know that there is a true reality that I have to go back to in order to eat, sleep, etc. I'd still have work during the day.

Not to mention that those kinds of cases are few and inbetween. Those are the idiots. Like with anything, yes, there will be problems, and yes there will be addicts. But its nothing we can't fix or get over with time. Mental issues are the main health concern when it comes to Virtual Reality. Thats no lie. Someone on another site which this discussion didn't take off on, said that he was afraid that it would be too realistic and war or horror games would cause mental trauma. In the case of a horror virtual reality game, could the same not be said for horror games found today, or horror films?

In all honesty, i'm not really worried about the consequences. I went in knowing the risks and I won't regret a thing if anything happens.

>>14 That doesn't actually happen. It keeps getting hyped on the news, because it makes for a good story and keeps ratings up, but the only people who've ever confused reality with a game are the people who have serious mental problems to start with. As a matter of fact, the serious, bloody, "murder simulator" type video games? Since they became popular actual violent crimes have gone down 75%. If you look at crime stats and game sales month by month, they're almost perfectly inversely proportional. Making realistic combat in games doesn't make people want to fight in real life, it takes the people who would be fighting and killing in real life and it keeps them in their parents' basements, away from the rest of humanity. Nobody's going to shoot somebody in a video game and say "hey, that was great, I bet it'll be even better with realistic consequences and prison time!"

>>16 lol

Nice Guys.

>>16 The whole virtual reality thing though will come out with shooters and things like that, and those who get to feel the kill, and everything with those problems will become worse.

People will also start to overuse it because it is so realistic they may not want to leave it even to go to the bathroom so people may start killing themselves on it.

>>20 Virtual Reality will likely start with RPG's. I also take it that your either not a gamer, likely against gaming in general, or are just genuinely afraid of the next step in entertainment. Either way, your fears are somewhat justified, but they arn't as bad as you seem to think.

As Sindri said, those who have the urge to kill, can kill in the game, thus they WILL NOT go out and kill in reality. Killing is usually done out of anger or frustration. These things are often taken out in video games, and are not committed in reality. So actually, crimes have been stopped by video games. The crime rate has dropped considerably since the introduction of video games.

Overuse is an issue with any addicting thing, not just video games, and certainly not just VR. However, just because someone is enveloped in something that much, doesn't mean they won't get off and go to the bathroom, eat, sleep, etc. And if you ask me, not going to the bathroom is highly unlikely, because it does become painful if you hold it off for too long, thus prompting the person to go to the bathroom to relieve the pain. So it will probably be a common issue, but not the worst.

>>20 Its also a proven fact that video games can actually help mental issues. So actually, literally killing someone in the game as the character doing the killing, might actually convince the person in reality that killing is not good. Because it is often known that those who kill regret it later and sometimes, kill themselves because they killed someone else. Obviously, with a game, they won't kill themselves over it, because they know it wasn't real and the person will respawn in a couple seconds or 5 minutes, but the lesson will have been learned.

I have pondered how to successfully make virtual reality gaming work for a few years, and have gone back and forth with ideas with a few of my friends, and we have come to the conclusion that doing the mental immersion thing is dangerous, and the physical immersion impractical and possibly dangerous, at least in the ideas that we had come up with personally. The physical immersion should be a bit obvious, translating the motions, having enough room to do so, and so on and so on, would be difficult. with the mental immersion though, your possibilities may increase as far as the potential enjoyment of the game, but my friend pointed out how dangerous that could be. when you are detached from the "reality" of the game via a TV screen and a controller, you are more likely to dismiss the events as something that will have no effect on you. If you immerse the mind into that "reality" though, the mind will be less receptive to that idea that the events have no pull over it. The example that one of my friends used is that if the VR could recognize facial features and put them into the game, then if we were to play a war game in which i was blown up or something, and he was watching it go down, it could be potentially traumatizing.

Keep in mind though that that example would really only apply to a VR that has INCREDIBLY realistic graphics, i think that if the VR were more cartoon-y or something, then it would be less harmful. eventually though, i think that we will push towards that more realistic VR, being that we as a species are restless when it comes to progress.

WTF??

They had something like this at my Grad Night.

VR would revolutionize the gaming industry, but what other things could it be used for besides playing games? I mean, what if someone decided to live a second life within virtual reality? You would essentially be able to do anything within virtual reality that you couldn't do in real life. Maybe you'd like to vacation in Hawaii, but instead of hopping on a plane you engage in a VR simulation of vacationing in Hawaii. VR will undoubtedly be an amazing advancement in gaming, but it could also potentially be a life changing technology that lets you live out your wildest dreams or indulge in your deepest desires. Anyways, I'm looking forward to seeing VR become a reality in the near future and observing how humanity decides to use it besides in the gaming industry.

My favorite idea when I think about everything that VR could bring to the world if perfected, would be how there could possibly be an end to wars. Not wars in general, but ones fought with real humans and real guns. I think VR could take over this, as countries would fight it out in a VR, then the victor in there would also be the winner in the real world. This could save millions of lives, and also lead to problems resolved more quickly, while still maintaining the world's balance. Not only that, but it would also just be amazing to have VR on a personal level, to escape reality whenever needed. Of coarse this would bring around it's own set of problems, but as it is in it's idea form right now, I pretty excited for VR :)

Fuck yeah! Go Sony! Microsoft can't touch this.

>>27 it would never happen. never. Everyone would just get CoD Rage and nuke each other anyways.

>>28 Actually, Microsoft is working on their own stuff. I just used Sony as an example because they are the only ones who are public with anything of this nature.

>>27 Yah, I can't see that happening either.

god is real you da man

this thread reminded me of an old show v.r troopers anyone remember it

>>30 oh. did Microsoft steal their components from Sony? *zing*

>>33 Alright, I gotta admit, that was funny. Chances are.... probably.

>>34 seriously, FOUR patented technologies in the 360 and they refuse the settlement offer? things are looking bad for them.

Reminds me of Apocalypse. I really don't want the shape-shifting anti-christ to give me his mark using magic marker in a vr sim of a white room.

O......M.......G

Well I want...obviously

Bump.

BUMP

This technology has been around for quite some time, just really expensive. I think it was the military, or some government sect, that trained people with a headmount display. Also mainly engineers are using things similar to holographic rooms. What it is though is just a bunch of projecters in a room that show images of three dimensional contstructs. They then see the project they are building and see the structural, or any type, of flaw by using this room to view a 3D structure of it. It may sound simple, but to projext something on 4 walls, and a maybe a cieling, with little to no lag requires immense processing power. This is probably quite expensive, but it will eventually be released to the public, unless something better comes along.

I saw the Sony headset a while back, but I don't know where I purchase it!

And so...
Sword Art Online begins in real life X)

to the original poster, im majoring in Computer Science only to get to Video Game Development afterwards, and frankly speaking, its my dream to get to be a part of this. So if you have any connection whatsoever as to how i may participate in the making of this amazing product, please let me know on this thread.

>>44 As much as I'd love to, i've got no connection to any VR Projects. I'm just a VR fanboy who can't wait to have a .Hack//Sword Art Online kind of experience. However, if there's on place I know of that might be hiring(don't hold me to that) is Oculus Virtual Reality Inc(I think thats the name). They are currently working on the Oculus Rift VR HMD, but I think its like the others with just a screen on it, no true VR. Its virtually(no pun intended) finished by now. They've already started handing out dev kits, but for future projects i'm sure they'd need help. If you can help make True Virtual Reality a reality, then I say good luck and make it quick.

ill go for it, thx for the info :)

Although I like the idea of VR, I'm just thinking what would be its repercussions after 10 years? Let's say that the next generation of kids that we would have - what they're going to look up to? Are they going to look up to the traditional console experience or this new subjective VR gaming experience? I mean, we would need to consider the health issues concerning this new gaming experience (frequent problems are eye issues, with some cases of minor headaches due to prolonged exposure, etc.)

Muscle Stimulation pads while playing may solve the exercise issues.

0_o kinda makes me want to play The World

>>48
Cannot get HEALTHY muscle growth by anything other than PHYSICAL activity. It might tone it up, but that is it. No strength of any kind would be added.

Hey there. Yeah, I know, this thread pretty much died a couple months ago, but i'm hoping to rekindle the discussion. Before, it was nothing, but pure speculation, and I had a pretty biased opinion of true virtual reality. But my opinions have changed after watching .Hack//The Movie which shows how they play the game. Not to mention the announcement and successful Kickstarter funding of the Oculus' Rift head-mounted display, means that virtual reality will be here in only a few years. Yeah, we won't be truly in it, but being able to see through the eye's of our characters in beautiful worlds is too good to pass up. Not to mention the rumors that Microsofts next Xbox will support some kind of virtual reality device that they themselves are developing. That also goes along with the rumor that the next Xbox will be out by Holiday 2013. Meaning we don't have much longer to wait until games start popping out for these devices. Give or take 2-3 years. Yeah. there will be risks associated with it, like the different viruses that appear in the .Hack series, physical health issues, etc., but those are things we'll worry about when the time comes. So I wanna see what people think now considering its been a few months. Maybe opinions or thoughts have changed, or someone's got an interesting idea.

Forgot to include a picture of the Oculus Rift, which is scheduled to ship to developers next year, and possibly to the consumer market in 2014.

Call of Duty on this would be so sick!

This thing had been in a lot of different animes.
There were successful attempts AFAIK which then ended up failing because it caused damage to the wearers eyes.

>>54 Well, thats because its like staring into a TV Screen point-blank. Thats never good for you. And yet, i'd do it for prolonged periods of time anyway. I already wear glasses.

I never thought about the eye damaging part.. but I'm more concerned about the outrageous addiction it would cause...
Just think about how addicted people are to gaming already, especially online. Think of an online 3d social site like imvu or something.. Think about how people will lose themselves over their "gamer self". Think of all the neglect that might happen. A Chinese couple neglected and eventually sold their child in exchange for money to play more games at a local internet cafe. No, not everyone is like this... but can we be so sure that this will never happen on a grander scale if virtual reality is created?

>>56 It depends on how you handle things. You have to be smart enough, to put your family first and make sure they're taken care of before you sit down and put on those VR glasses. Obviously, yeah, your virtual life is gonna be 10x better. But you know you can't spend your entire life in there, and if you have a family, that should click in your mind that, that takes precedence. Those people in China.... well that's China. Heck, once I have kids and they're old enough, i'm gonna get them into games. Then we can play together, neglect problem solved. Then again, thats a few years, and those first few years are important. So you gotta watch this kind of thing. These kinds of problems are unavoidable, so we're gonna have to live with them.

>>57 I'm not sure if that's the right attitude though.. Telling those neglected to just "live with it" because the majority are having fun. Listen, we already neglect things such as homework thanks to internet and TV and then we wind up crashing the night before a test or having to make up for the grade lost. In the end, everyone is fine with the grades that they get at the end of the semester excluding a few. Now bring VR into it and I bet GPAs across the globe will plummet.
Before people neglect others in addiction they tend to even neglect themselves. Though Casinos still exist despite the numerous addictions that transpire, this is a serious problem that I think someone should look into before creating a vr system. Possibly wire it so that after an hour it will shut down for 24 hours. It's a VR game, so seriously, all you would need is one hour. Think of an avatar game where you're on Pandora or maybe a halo VR game. That will be the longest hour you have ever experienced.

>>59 An hour is never enough for most gamers, including me. I tend to play several hours a day, and even then I want to play longer. The longer the hour, the better I say because its more. While the feelings of the few should never go unheardm nor should the few prevent the majority from having fun. VR overall will be a great experience and problems can be worked out in time. Nothing is perfect when first introduced. It takes time to perfect them. So again, things like this will be common to start. Eventually, like any addiction(minus tobacco and betting), people will grow out of it, and it will become nothing more than that thing you do on a Saturday night. Do you understand what i'm trying to say? We shouldn't immediately throw something away, just because it has a few hazards. The World from .Hack// had its fair share of issues, usually virus related, that put people into coma's until the virus was erased, yet The World continued to exist even after this, when people could have easily said, it's a danger to people, get rid of it before more people fall into coma's.

It is a highly interactive, and highly addictive recreational activity. I was addicted to standard video games for the longest time, but I never neglected the things that Were important. I eventually grew out of that addiction, and now playing games has become sort of a side thing instead of an integral part of my life. The same will happen with VR. It is unavoidable, no matter how long you put it off, and if you got rid of it all together, someone will just make it in their basement, because thats how smart people are now. When you buy that VR headset, you are accepting the risks associated with its use. There should be a disclaimer on the box that says that.

>>59
No offense but it's up to the gamer about what they do, how they do it, why they do it and when. You need to worry more about your own self and surroundings (such as friends and family) rather than people you'll never meet or truly care about.

The company making a VR system shouldn't cap a system for how long it can be played. People spend their own money to play it, it's up to them for how long they use it for. They buy the system and the entire right to use it when they want to. No one elses. If they screw up in grades, it's their own retarded fault. If people get neglected (such as children) it's their own fault and will suffer the consequences of the law. No one would make the system capped or different just based on what people 'might do'. That line of thinking is the same type of thinking that "Violent games causes people to be violent and thus shouldn't be created". Let people use the system how they wish, as in the end it's their choice.

People would mod it anyway and disable it's timer and thus make it null and void.

Those who can do that will. Sure. But others who can't won't be able to.
I'm not saying that we shouldn't have a vr system period, and yeah, I know an hour isn't enough for gamers, but this isn't based on stuff that "might happen". It WILL. Certain addictions aren't easy to get over. Like the illegal ones. I'm comparing this to an illegal drug; it can lead to a harmful diet and impair your senses. I'm not saying they should get rid of the idea or not give a shit and leave a tiny disclaimer. All I want... is for whoever makes a vr system to take note of this.
And Thiamor, course and blatant as always you forget that they WILL give a shit because if this leads to negative public questioning, protests, or lawsuits, it will be one hell of a PR crisis and hard to market but also different retail outlets may decide that the selling of vr systems is harmful to their PR, and as a way of social auditing, will refuse to sell them...
I WANT a vr system. But if they don't think of this shit, then just like last time, it'll all go down in flames

>>62
A disclaimer should be enough. As long as they make it publicly aware, it should then be up to the people how they go about using it. That or if they are kids, it should be up to the parents.

>>63
Maybe if it had on option for something like having an on board timer or a way for someone to pause the system from the outside so that it could be stopped when it needed to.

Ok, lets say we do create VR(which would be pretty awesome spitted the problems I'm about to tell you). What prevents something like SOA from happening? And what if hackers found a way to use this headgear to harm the user from a long distance? And(as said earlier in this thread) it could have major psychological consequences on the user.

Humans are already becoming detached to reality, virtual worlds would be a nightmare.

Did nobody get that message from The Matrix!

The problems of VR don't deter me one bit. If SAO did happen, i'd be content to live in that world. It'd be much nicer than reality. Thing is, i'd also rather not be a vegetable in the real world. And the hacker problem is something I havn't considered, but then again, it'd take a real, REAL big asshole with a deathwish to do something like that.

SAO is more frightening but it would be a big breakthrough. And I agree we have become detached from reality. But im still all for the helm.

I highly doubt a vr like soa would be nicer than reality. It would be complete chaos for months at end. People would be at constant power strugles so they would be able to put people in the front lines and they didnt have to go. Thousands would commit suicide. Eventualy our real bodies would die off. Im estimating 1000 would survive at best. If this is created, there need to be safety measures. A lead coating between the power sorce and the head of the user to prevent radiation, an over-ride system that can be used as a force logout, and constant physical and phycological monitering done by the headset that would force log you out of conditions got to bad. Im not oposed to the idea if the proper safety measurments are taken.

>>69
If they could make it where the bodies wouldn't rot away, then it may and/ or may not be interesting. Such as a certain chamber, that rejuvenates your body whilst it's in the chamber.

Bump

>>70 the matrix. That's all I have to say.

Hey I just had the best idea off you had these and the Razer edge gaming tablet aka fiona with the controllers on the side this would be totally beast

>>73 Sounds interesting.

Why doesn't anyone use this one?

so cool that would be awesome to have

it is like a nerve gear from SAO (sword art online)