Ok, I am a nondenominational reincarnationist. I die, I come back. But, for all of you out there, Christian or not, if free will begets sin, and in Heaven there is no sin, then is there truly free will in Heaven? Post what you think below, and please, lets not have reply wars. Thanks!!

I would like to think that free will does not beget sin. Humans beget sin. There will be no sin in heaven because our souls will be made perfect and immortal. No longer human.

>>2

Fact: We were human in the Garden of Eden before eating the fruit of knowledge which was our first sin.

It was our choice to commit that sin, or not to - However, we existed as humans without sin essentially as long as it was possible to, and only gained sin when we were given the choice to do so.

Funnier Fact: The first sin according to the bible was wanting to gain knowledge. Staying ignorant would have led them to happiness. This sets the tone for most of the rest of the book.

If free will begets sin, that would have to mean that Heaven is devoid of free will. However, this would make Heaven an undesireable place to be for any sentient being. This actually doesn't really matter, because all humans value and use their free will, and therefore all go to Hell. This would mean that God is a cruel being who likes to watch monkeys flail around in the mud, and cares nothing for the human race. Of course, this entire set of logic, when compared with prior knowledge on the subject, becomes riddled with contradictions, oxymorons and paradoxes, and is therefore either false or incomplete. There is either a loophole or an error in my train of thought. If not, then enjoy the life you have now, because the next one won't be very pleasant. Unless you believe in reincarnation, of course.

>>4

... Keep in mind that canonically speaking, God made humans to worship him. God condemns those who do not worship him to a hell of eternal pain and suffering.

If you follow the bible, then he's not exactly the kindest role model here - If you don't worship and serve, he doesn't really seem to give a damn about you. God "flooded" the world because the majority of them weren't adequately kissing ass. He destroyed entire cities because a few people inside were being obstinate about not worshipping.

Ah, don't forget Sodom and Gomora - Those were destroyed without remorse or a second thought because they "strayed" from his worship. That is to say, they were exercising their free will.

Hell, there was an entire massive religious era which revolved around this. You might be more familiar with the "fire and brimstone" concept of preaching? The years upon years where the church pretty adamantly instilled "fear and obey god" into it's members?

The concept that heaven would lack free will seems to logically go hand in hand with the rest of the stuff. God doesn't especially seem to care about free will in the first place.

It's kind of a catch 22 - You have free will to do whatever you want. As long it's what God has decided is okay for you to do.

Christianity is mostly based on the New Testament though, which has Jesus teaching of forgiveness and love. A lot of the Old testament is then completely looked over.

And you know, Satan always seemed like a swell guy to me for taking care and punishing all the people God doesn't like on his behalf.

>>6

So are we addressing this thread's Heaven as Christian or Catholic? Or any of the many other deviations.

>>5 Did I not say that my logic falls apart when prior knowledge on the subject is applied?

>>7

Christian? Isn't it the same heaven since Catholicism is just a Christian denomination?

>>9

The same "general" Heaven, but different requirements. Catholicism lists the requirements from both Old and New Testament, Christianity tends to lean more towards New Testament and ignores Old Testament.

Because the book you base your entire faith around is something you're encouraged to pick and choose about what is true and not, apparently.

But those requirements change details of said Heaven. IE: A catholic heaven really is no free will what so ever. A Christian heaven is probably "less" free will, since it gives more emphasis to acting kind, rather than blind obedience.

Then again, I've been taking OP's post primarily like a math proof. "If X = Y, and Y does not exist in Location, then does X not exist in location as well?" Which is true, granted that all the previous conditions are true.

So the question comes down to, essentially, what are the requirements to get into heaven? Which denomination you go through to get there then heavily effects whether the proof is accurate or not.

Everyone knows that only Mormons get to go to heaven, and Sadam.

Also what is free will? If you are reincarnated do you have the will to choose what you become, or is it predertemined? If you don't have that power, then what does? And does this being, or thing, that has this power have a set course you will take? If that is the case then you have no free will what so ever, since you are just following the path set before you.

Wasn't there sin in heaven and angels fell due to that? I'm not too religious, but I know angels who disobeyed God were kicked out. Not all free will causes sin, and it isn't just free will that causes it. To survive one needs to kill, but isn't killing a sin? How I view heaven is a place devoid of evil, and a paradise, so there will be no need to sin.