So I'm putting this in random strictly because it IS more of a random frustration than a complete concern or issue. I know there are some topics similar to this already, but I would like to adress it from a different approach.

I am fairly new to the Dollars, and in my initial joining I was (for obvious reasons) led to believe that the dollars were kind, considerate, chivalrous people, because statements of kindness are all over the site. And don't get me wrong, the majority of those who I have talked to/read from here on the BBS have been very nice people, but I have recently noticing an unfortunate contradiction in the behaviors of some members. The dollars are supposed to be anti-bullying, and yet I see a concerning amount of bullying going on in the BBS. I'm not singling out groups...because I dont know if it's older members, members from certain countries, new members...and really it doesn't matter to me what their status is, but it concerns me to see fellow dollars insulting others, saying they are stupid, immature, or other such degrading things, simply because they talked about or said something a little less than professional. Yes, we have plenty of ways to help the newbies, as they were a great help and resource for me, and yes, if newbie's choose to ignore these clearly pointed out rules, it is rude and silly. But in situations where no rules are being broken, but still they get shunned and mocked...it's upsetting to see my fellow dollars treating people like that. Maybe they ARE "immature" but that doesn't give anyone the right to degrade them...maybe they're young, maybe they're just really creative, maybe they have a learning disability...not being all professional, "grown up" or serious doesn't make someone stupid, it just makes them not like everyone else...you don't know the reason for the way they act, and it could very well be valid...anyway...yeah. I'm done rambling. I just wanted to see if I was the only one who felt this way. (Also please no discussions on "ignorant newbies" because I've already pointed out the fact that I think they are impolite and rude...this is about other instances)

First of all, no-one wants to read a block of text like that. Paragraph breaks are your friend.

Second, your conclusion is invalid because your premise is. The Dollars aren't "kind, considerate, chivalrous people" necessarily; we're just people. There are nice people who are indeed considerate and chivalrous (if "chivalrous" applies to anyone nowadays) here on the Dollars, but there are also dumbfucks and dickheads. We're just a population of people...we're many and we're varied, but we aren't all "professional" or "kind."

In addition, we're just a bunch of internetz people who happen to be here. I mean, we don't all stand for a particular cause. Yes, most people here are anti-bullying (aren't most people in general?), but that doesn't mean that we as a group have to support that viewpoint. This is also true for other matters. Just because there's a thread where a bunch of Dollars agree that, say, koala bears are really cute, that doesn't mean that it's the official opinion of the Dollars...

Look, this has been discussed over, and over... And over and over and over and over. This thread has everything you need to know about this topic:

http://dollars-bbs.org/suggestions/res/1321824143.html

And yes, be sure to read the whole entire thing before you complain again.

>>2

tsubaki, up until just now I had no idea who you were.

I like you now.

>>1 Tsubaki's post summed up my thoughts on the matter in a very nice way. We have a thread that Crisis linked which sort of relates to what you're talking about - But in all honesty, it doesn't directly relate, as it addresses something you've already mentioned in your post.

I'm curious if you could give examples of "shunning without a real reason" for us to elaborate on? Most of the time when that gets brought up it's in relation to newbies being told off for breaking rules/etiquette - But you're apparently talking about something different?

Hmmm... it's interesting that this is raised up...

Yes, it's been discussed over and over and over again, and you can't deny what's going on, but I'll try and give an explanation. If it sucks, then ignore it, because I really do suck at explaining.

I gather what you mean by a "real reason" is a petty thing, like perhaps the person doesn't like [insert name here] and the other does, and this causes some conflict. Believe me, I still haven't been forgiven for one of those types of stuff, but that doesn't mean that I'm going to correct my image just to make myself accepted. Perhaps this is what you see in the "degrading" stuff thrown around.

The "professional" part is hard to explain... I mean, we're not professionals, as an earlier post mentioned. We're just human beings, and we are unique in our views, blah blah blah. Basicallly, some people get readily offended by what might be a less-than-professional comment, for various reasons which I could go into detail, but I won't. But sometimes what people say in that comment could potentially be very offensive to that person, especially if the newbie seems pretty aware of that point, in which case the person goes on a rage for a legit reason.

However, when it comes down to unreasonable rages and you're extremely offended by what's going on, the basic response is to stop it. But some people (albiet a little twisted) enjoy harassing people online, in which case that's not on, nor is that of raging simply because someone gave the excuse for that person to release the pent-up rage.

I'm starting to not make sense to myself, so I'll try wrap this up by saying that bullying is definitely not-on, but we're not all like that, and the best thing to do is to try remedy the situation or, if you can't solve it, then get some help from others, and if worst comes to worst, then admit there's nothing you can do and see whether it gets any better...

This is not good advice btw, it's just my opinion (?) on the matter. Someone more knowledgeable will say something better, I'm sure...

>>5 It's good that you typed all of this up... but we have it covered already. We have the "Reason For The Rude" Thread, and I'm too lazy to find the URL right now, so I'll leave it at that. It's under Suggestions.

>>6 Damn... if only I knew that before... but thanks for mentioning it *goes to read it*

In general, I agree with >>2. I wish you had explained specifically what disputes bother you. We have quite a few discussions, and we also have arguements. It happens. I regret to inform you that you can't "bully" over a site like this, because the person always has the option to leave or shut up. We don't have accounts or anything like that, so if they wait a week, they can come back, change their names, and enjoy the life of Dollars all over again. Trust me, I know what bullying is, and nothing we have done is this. I'll point out a few disputes that you may be referring to for the sake of arguement.

The everlasting ponyfag dispute. The majority of our members who have spoken up do not like MLP or certain cells of their fanbase. Just recently, we had a situation in the LOLthread was because members who do like MLP post "humorous" pictures of them. However, it's not humorous to anyone unless they've watched the show, and it should really go in the MLP thread itself, especially since there aren't that many bronies here. The term "ponyfag" may seem harsh, but it's just a term that we use. It doesn't mean that we don't like the person - it means that they like MLP, and we don't.

When a discussion gets heated. When a debate or discussion gest heated, which it does periodically, there is the chance of people insulting each other. That's generally just from the frustration of the debate, and it's not bullying, especially since a few days after the conversation is over, those people are normally fine talking to each other.

The rage given to people who don't even try to type properly. It's easy to tell the difference between a learning impediment, a different first language, and general laziness. General laziness is the only thing that often gets raged at. When people can't even take the time to capitalize an I, it is rude and, again, lazy. Of course, there are certain users that we consider an exception for this. Why? Because you can at least read and get the gist of their posts, and they normally have a good input.

Or do you think all cuss words are mean and automatically mean you're trying to bully someone? If so, the internet is not for you.

>>6 This thread is a bit different from the Reasons of the Rude, because that thread specifically focuses on rage towards newbies. The OP of this thread is talking about rudeness and rage in general throughout the site.

>>8 I forgot about the "leave or shut up" thing... that is actually a very important point. And that is an awesome & concise list of different reasons for "hate", I must say...

Just on the topic of the bullying, the fact that they can leave or shut up at any time is actually quite vital. And the reason that they are "bullied" is just that they're either a troll who loves all the attention, a newbie who's seriously confused and can't find the 'log out' button, or randomly deciding to stir up something of interest in the chat... So there's no reason why there's this so-called bullying, because it's kinda like volunteering to lower your self-esteem.

The fact that you also thought that the site's people are "kind, considerate, chivalrous" is (no offense) a little laughable. This might sound like it comes from a depressed, cynical person (which it does), but there is really no such thing as a community of people who can be all that, and only all that. There are just too many people to make this realistic or even close to possible, but it's commendable that you can see the good in people, I suppose. Anyway, there are many types of people in this chat, and if you get offended or horrified by what's seen here, well, we can't blame you. All our tastes are different and there's no way in the world that all of us can co-exist without friction. But we can keep the peace for as long as possible if we find out about others and respect one another. So yeah... *ran out of philosophical things to blab on about*

>>5 " I still haven't been forgiven for one of those types of stuff"

What? Who are you...? I'm completely serious here. Who are you and what did you do...

After that part, I neglected to read anything else. I'll do so now... Because that was just damn puzzling.

>>7 Had you read my post, and checked the link... You've seen it. That URL I posted takes you there.

I'm not sure when or where I have already posted this thought on the matter, because I know I have, but I'll say it again anyway.

More and more, the point being made about rude members is becoming legitimate. There was a point in time when the members of the site that took it upon themselves to moderate were very fair, very impartial, and only rude when they needed to be. Of course, the latter point stands out the most from an onlooker's perspective, and it caused arguments like these to surface more than once in a while.

That was the whole premise behind what we refer to as the "reason for the rude" thread. Newer members are directed to it, they see the way things are handled, and they adopt it as their own way of doing things.

This is a problem.

Contrary to what is apparently popular belief, it is not necessary to treat everything with a brutal mindset and biting tone. This should only be reserved for people that deserve it, and not every single person that makes a mistake. There are a few on here who take out unnecessary aggression on members that simply needed a slap on the wrist and a point in the right direction.

So let me clarify:
Someone posting about anime on the main board, with obvious disregard for how this site works? Might deserve blunt criticism, and a point to the FAQ thread.
Someone spamming or trolling the boards? Tear them a new one, or just ignore them completely until a ban happens.
Someone misplacing a thread by accident? Just point out their mistake. Don't treat them like the above two cases, that's just blatantly rude.

I personally keep seeing people almost trying to set the precedent of "We don't like people here. You better watch your god damned step." And while I do like that more people are stepping up to help organize the site than in the past, that's even more reason for them to back down.

The brutality was required when it was a few small voices that needed to enunciate and emphasize. We have a lot of people that stand up for the site's organization, now. The question is, is the same brutality even justified at this point anymore?

>>13 I've been trying to come down from being so hard, but I do forget sometimes. But yeah, you mostly have a point there.

>>13 I saw that too. When I saw that, I thought to myself, "Welps. Time to fix these bastards." And so... I did. Sorta. Not really. Well, I sorta did. To Crisis. But I'm planning on cracking down on the other people. Beware bitches.

>>4 Oh my god. Ayanavi likes me. /lifemade.

Anyway. Misuto does bring up a good point in >>13. If you look at threads from way back when, if someone posted an introduction here on Random or something, they got a hello and a friendly reminder that Intro was the correct board. Now, if someone does something similar, they end up getting completely chewed out.

This almost reflexive reaction has gotten out of control, it seems. And I don't claim to be any exception—when I see yet another thread on Main complaining that the chat isn't working, my first instinct is to yell at them and swear and stuff; however, it's fairly clear that that's an overreaction. I think we should all make an effort to be nicer! :D

At the same time, though, we obviously can't just let things go without comment. If we're too nice, just telling people, "It'd be nice if you would put this in the appropriate board next time, but it's okay," they might not get the idea and think it's just a suggestion that they don't actually have any reason to comply with.

So the important thing here is to strike a balance between keeping the site organized and reacting fairly~ But that's really up to the individual at this point, at least until we come to a consensus about how tough we need to be on mistakes, dumbassery, and trolling.

>>17 First line, I lol'd.

>>17 "But that's really up to the individual at this point, at least until we come to a consensus about how tough we need to be on mistakes, dumbassery, and trolling"

Or until I chew the chewer. I'll chew them good.

>>16 Yeah, lol. I misread someone's post and thought it was some Hetalia crap... Deserved that.

>>20 Sorry for using you as my example. You're my only example... So. Yeah. I'll be watching for more... Derp.

>>19 I remember when doing that made you a whiteknight. Or something of the sort. >:I

>>20 I saw that. ಠ_ಠ
I would've stepped in, but I guess it was already handled.

>>11 I'm not sure who you are, so I don't think I could help you understand who I am (sorry if this sounded rude, I'm not sure how to answer without sounding snobbish). What I did was something trivial, and it ended up making two regulars (who I knew irl) hate me. forever. Oh well, I can't reconcile it anyway. Basically they threatened to punch me if I didn't shut up about how they were abusing me by calling me names, and I said to them "make me". That caused hate...

>>13 That is a very valid response. There was once a time when we could kindly do things, but now it has blown out of proportion, and what used to be a kind reminder is now just derogatory words flung around. And there is definitely no reason for the brutality, unless that person is a troll who's repeatedly offended, in which case it still mightn't be reasonable to use brutality. But some people deal with it that way, as >>17 pointed out with our reflexive reaction. But of course, the idea of a balance is really good.

Anyway, all we just need now is a way to solve this problem by finding the balance of abuse and gentleness. Perhaps one day this problem will be solved. In the meantime, all we can do is try to steer people in the right direction, and try keep Dollars as well as we can...

>>23 Oh, I thought you meant like, people that opted to moderate and stuff, people like me, not random assholes that you know here. Well, whoever these two assholes are, who really need to get kicked in the genitals, or wherever, they don't reflect the overall people that took up the mantle of actively moderating this site.

btw... this isn't to offend anyone, but the "reason for the rude" post is looooooong... so please forgive me if I do give up halfway and thus repeat what other people have said...

>>22 You got your definitions messed up. Being a white knight is when the wrongdoer was actually wrong, and then someone steps into save them. If wrongdoer was wrongly accused, that's a different story, and the accuser needs to get fucked up.

>>25 There's an index somewhere at the bottom of the thread. You don't need to read the entire thing. It's mainly repeats, bumps, and random talking somewhere in the middle.

>>24 No, moderators raging at me for perhaps a duplicate post I can handle. Btw, I only discovered the joys of these forums two days ago, and I have to say that what's happening here is awesomely run ^~^. And yea, they really don't reflect how awesome the people here are~

>>28 We. Are. Not. A. Forum. We. Are. A. Bulletin. Board. System. Capisce?

>>29 Which is a type of forum. Durr.

>>30 Not..really. The forum is just an evolved bulletin board system..

>>29 Capisce. And I'm really sorry for making that mistake T^T
It does seem like a forum though, but if it's an evolved bulletin board system, then so be it...

"An Internet forum, or message board, is an online discussion site where people can hold conversations in the form of posted messages."

Forum. BBS. Whatever. But really, getting on someone's case for calling it a forum? That's stupid, and proving Suto's post.

>>32 Don't say sorry.

>>32 We're mostly just different because a forum requires an account, and that's how users are identified. Here, on a bulletin board system, we just have our name, and can be identified by our tripcodes.

>>33 You're right, and I realized that pretty much right after I posted >.<; Nevertheless, I am a stubborn, truculent child, and therefore didn't rectify my error.

>>35 oic. Thanks for making it clear
>>34 sure thing

Anyways, after consulting with Ayanavi from space, I learned, and I quote, "BBS and Forums differ based on organization. Forums are evolved, based on using php driven databases for indexing and easy searches, as well as accounts that provide privileges and what not. BBS lacks that php driven database for organization - which is why it's hard for us to move threads, or ban people. They both serve the same basic purpose of online communication. But that's like saying a knife is like a machete. I could cut vines with both. one of them is better at it due to design."

Alright, you're right. But still, I dislike the fact that you had to act rude for no reason, at all.

And anyways, it's getting too off topic.

And that's two. Crisis and Tsubaki. Now I can stop using Crisis as an example.

>>39 I'm not gonna argue with that... :X

This means crisis is no longer important, and I can stop liking tsubaki because insert has her as an example.

Crisis reputation has decreased!
Tsubaki's reputation has decreased!
Insertnamehere has gained new example [Tsubaki's Blunder]!

NUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU! I did something stupid again, and now Ayanavi hates me~ /lifeover

lol, this is going off-topic as well...

I just wanted to say that (from reading halfway through "reasons for the rude" thread) it seems more effective for people to rage at newbs for the moment. Because from what I've seen, kindness is ignored, and the mistake is repeated again. Bluntness is seen, noted as offensive, and then the lesson is magically learnt.

Anyway, I think what >>1 meant from the "statements of kindness" thing was perhaps when there were no newbs stirring up trouble at that moment and thus there was abounding kindness. Then he got introduced to the real world, where there was swearing at newbs. And then he got the wrong message and thought we bullied for no reason.

Anyway, if Eli is still following this thread, just know that abuse is just the best method that people have adopted at the moment, and unless you can prove that kindness is the way to go, then by all means, show us that it works. Otherwise, we can't do anything and we'll just have to abuse our lives away so that newbs won't turn into permanent noobs/trolls

I think I'll add a summary, because I'm just wandering off-topic now (damn my muddled head)

tl;dr >>1 abuse seems to work better than kindness. This is what you seemed to have seen and to be honest, those people might be at fault and thus the bitching around. And there must be some other rule that you didn't investigate. *nothing more to say*

>>43 Stop liking doesn't mean hate.

And why does Ayanavi's approval matter? Huh? IT'S ALWAYS NAVI, WHY HER? She can be wrong too, sometimes. Like, on the rare occasions that it happens ; u;

>>21 Lol, don't worry about it. Like I said, I deserved it. (Of course, in my defense, it was after 1 am, and I did apologize to the person afterwards)

>>42 I... Was important??? Noooooooooooooooooooo T_T


>>42 >>42 >>42

>>45 It means hate. To me. And it's not always 'navi! Although she is practically regarded as a goddess of the BBS by some, she's not the only one. Anyway, I care about lots of people's approval...you're one of them .-.

I can go through all of the posts, and name what I agree with on each post one-by-one, or I can just put my opinion on this topic. I think I'll do this because it requires less reading.

We are not all here to fix the world. A few of us are, and you're find us on the Missions Board. Some of us are just here to share are views and opinions, to talk about something we like, or to just have fun and relax. Basically, we are all different. Each one of us has a different view, idea, and thought. You can't say we're all against the same thing.

Sometimes discussions get heated. I myself have been part of one or two. Some of us just get into a heated discussion or argument and start destroying each-other's self-esteem. That really isn't bullying. It is more like us saying, "You're wrong because you don't agree with me."

It is not only about that though. Sometimes it's a heated debate. I certainly love these because of the amount of research and logic in them always catches my interest. It's basically reading interesting facts about whatever topic the thread is on. I also love being part of them because it gives me a chance to practice debating my own opinion, which I'm not very good at.

Sometimes it's because of pure stupidity. I've seen non-english speakers make more sense than some of the native-english speakers on here. There are a million threads on this. When people don't bother using spelling, grammar, or capitalization we don't know what the fuck they mean. I feel like people who make threads with an OP that doesn't make sense spam this site. Nobody is going to comment on a thread if they can't understand what an OP says.

This is the internet. People shouldn't get all butt-hurt over insults. I've been insulted here a few times and can still talk to the people without bias. There are trolls here that are only here to troll, and they will insult people. You can't let it get to you.

/Late to conversation/

I don't exactly know how others see me around here, but even when I rage, I try to be fair about it.

My small walls of text always take into account exactly what the member has done wrong, offers alternatives and corrections, and only throws in a few small yet accurate insults to clarify that they are most certainly in the wrong. I try to only use these text walls in the event of an appropriate screw up. When I see a mistake that would make sense, like the person creating a duplicate thread looking for a title that doesn't exist, or a member who can't tell whether something belongs in Random or some other board (but at least had the decency to put it in Random first), I'll direct them to a better solution as politely as I can.

That's not to say I'm the most polite person here, because I know for a fact that I've been unnecessarily rude before. Anyway, yes, some of the brutality has gotten out of hand. I think I'll try to step up with *insertnamehere* and Misuto to quell some of the overreactions when I can.