This was originally in random, but I was told to post it here (Thanks again!)

So, I'm a girl and I'm constantly told that I should act 'more feminine'. It doesn't really happen at school, but my mom drills it into my head. Anyways, I know I don't exactly act like a girl that today's society would expect, but it doesn't make me less of a girl, correct?

What are your opinions on gender roles, both male and female?

Having a unique personality does not change your gender, no.

Gender roles are outdated nonsense that should be saved for fetish-driven relationships, in my opinion. You're free to act however masculine or feminine you want without it changing your identified gender or making you seem like less of your sex.

Mothers like to use the "act like a girl" term because acting "feminine" makes you significantly more pleasant to handle from a parental standpoint. Feminine is pretty, submissive, happy. Most parents want their kids to be that... but their daydreams aren't something you need to worry about.

your gender is determined by your sex chromosomes.
just be yourself

Eh, I'm the same, Mako. We're just tomboys in other words :P But it definitely doesn't make us less of a girl. At all.

On gender roles, well I'm surprisingly old-fashioned. In short, there are certain things/behaviors that are "male" and certain things/behaviors that are "female," but there can be grey areas. It's just natural IMO.

For example, I think males are better at physical labor (like construction and other mechanical or manual work) than females; or that females shouldn't be in military combat (frontlines) or other work of the like.
And I think females are better when it comes to caring for children and people in general, for example, in terms of being doctors or nurses or the like.
Males tend to be more aggressive/rough, females are gentler. Typically.

Obviously, this doesn't mean it's true of all males and females, I'm just making a general statement.

But things like "women belong in the kitchen" or whatever... haha. Nah, I mean, I'll take myself as an example. I'm the biggest fail in the kitchen, can't cook for the life of me. Doesn't mean I'm not a proper girl. And it doesn't mean a female's womanliness should be based on how good of a housewife she is, that's just dumb.

And of course, all of this is just my opinion (before anyone decides me to bash me over the head).

For some reason people are trying to say both males and females are born with the exact same specifications (including physical attributes) and now they're teaching their children that. It's not even about gender roles anymore.
Yep, the world's trash.

I'd prefer a world where gender wasn't even a concept, to be honest. It just seems like so convoluted of an idea for the modern world. You are who you are, and you have either this stuff, that stuff, or some other stuff between your legs. That's that.

>>5 This stuff.

>>4 As someone with female friends & family who work manual labor, I personally disagree with the notion that women are generally less able to do it. It is riskier for women in the long-term (to the degree that females are biologically more likely to have bone conditions and can face fertility complications from physical strain), but it's certainly not more difficult.

The only reason it appears so is because we live in societies that discourage women from being active and developing strength and learning how to carry themselves in those situations. Imo.

(And not bashing, just discussing ^^)

Well first off, you don't need to change your gender to be more 'girl like' or more 'boy like'.

Secondly, your youth is meant to be used as a time of freedom of identity. Your mum only thinks you need to be more feminine because she thinks you're old enough now. Buuut you're probs not. And she doesn't realise you're underage.

Did you know that a child doesn't start their learning stage until they're 7-8 years old. Yet we put kids in schools when they're 4 or barely 5. No wonder it feels fucked up for a lot of kids and they end up like that when they grow up too. They need to find their identity individually without being influenced by their peers.

Same goes here, it's just time. I didn't think I'd become feminine when I was 16. But I fricken chaaaanged. Totally. I'm a feminine mofo.

Ok so first of, gender and sex are separate things. Your sex is determined genetically, but as my transgender friends tell me, you find your gender all on your own, without any clues from your genitals.

We set our own limits and saying somethings are your guys to do and some things are for girls to do just makes it easy for narrow minded people to cope with the world.
There is no need for you to help them cope, they should adapt, or humanity won't progress.
The sex we are born as doesn't come with a manual and a list of rules. You didn't leave your mother's body clutching a rule book in your tiny baby hands. Yes biologically each sex has advantages and disadvantages but with determination we can for the most part be the same.

Just be yourself, if people don't like that, find new people that love you the way you are.

Gender roles should be a thing of the past, they are only limiting and meaning less, they help no one.

Just because you don't like like what society expects a girl to, it doesn't make you any less of a girl, so don't worry about that. As long as you act how you want, and you're comfortable yourself, everything is cool!
As a girl who has a hormone imbalance, I've struggled with not fitting society's ideal of what a girl should be, and I've been on a journey of first trying to be more girly like everyone was telling me to, then intentionally being more 'tomboyish' to be different, and now at present not really paying attention to labels of male/female items and just going with what I want.
Honestly I don't think gender roles are necessary and they can definitely be harmful. But you don't have to follow them if you don't want to.

>>5 Aah so true, so true...

>>6 No worries, I know you're not bashing haha! I enjoy these kinds of discussions ^^

Well, my opinion comes from the fact that USUALLY males are physically stronger than females. So most women will never achieve the level of raw physical strength that average men have, even with training (why is it that we still have female and male teams in sports/Olympics then, if not to account for biological differences in raw physical strength?).
(Though yeah, women have the potential to be quite strong, can't deny that, just look in extreme life-and-death kind of situations, women have been known to lift cars!)

And I'll never say it's impossible, who knows in the future. But as you said, excessive training has health consequences. For me, it means women are not meant to push themselves to that degree, biologically -- that is, it means it's not in their natural capabilities.

That's how we (humans) are made; I just accept that fact. I don't agree with society's idea of how a woman should be however, at least when it comes to matters like encouraging "feminine" activities since so many of these beliefs and ideas, in our times anyway, are obsolete.

(Sorry I wrote so much!! (゜ロ゜) *bashes head against wall*)

>>10 Dont worry about it! I love to read these!

In regards to everyone's posts so far, I would like to say thank you for your insight. I never realized how many different views there are on gender roles!

Gender roles certainly aren't as important as they once were but I think that they can still be valuable. For example, if you are a typically feminine girl people will see you as gentle or even weak. As a result, they will probably be more protective of you when you're in trouble while a boy in the same situation would be told to suck it up and deal with the problem himself. Of course, it's a double edged sword because you could also be seen as less competent for positions requiring strength or assertivness. Anyways, there are issues with gender roles but ther are merits as well so I don't think that they should be discarded but rather improved.

Not being feminine doesn't make you any less of a woman- after all gender roles are generalizations used to simplify social interactions. You are just slightly atypical which can make social interactions a bit awkward as people cannot interact with you in a typical way. Maybe your mom wants to protect you from that discomfort. If her constantly saying that you need to be more feminine bothers you, try talking to her to find out why she's telling you that.

>>10 But I wonder if the reason training has greater health consequences for women is because gender roles have affected evolution? As in, the lack of physical activity or imposition of dietary restrictions, etc. on women through history may be a reason that we're more likely to have bone/etc problems in the modern day.

Just a thought. It'd be interesting to see if there are any studies on that.

>>13 I actually did think about evolution while I was writing my previous reply. We probably can't ever know what women 10 000 years ago were like (though I'm pretty sure they were tougher), but we can certainly say that in the future, evolution and natural selection may very well change their biology!

However, I don't know when these gender roles first arose: have they been around since modernity (i.e., civilization) or even before? How long is enough to change our physiology, supposing it's because of these societal restrictions that women are weaker or more prone to these health issues? Hmm, curious stuff. All this would probably fall under anthropology and the like, totally out of my field haha! Interesting questions though.

>>14 An anthropologist just joined, I bet we could ask them!

>>15 Oh that's right haha! Well, if he's interested, he'll find this thread and give his input if he wants :P

>>14
Idk when Gender Roles arose, but I want to share current theories on HOW they arose:

Gender roles in a tribe of humans depended heavily on the the tribe's environment- more specifically on the type of food available to them.

In general, biology "assigned" men as hunters and women as gatherers. The balance of power between the sexes depended on whether there is more to be hunted or more to be gathered. To put really simply, bringing in food is what gav

That changed when humans started to settle down and rely more intensely on farming. More babies had to be made, children added to the labor force for the farms. This confined women indoors where they can nurse and take care of the younger kids. While the men worked at the farms- so now they have sole responsibility for the production of the food.
And women were treated worse and worse from then on...

The emergence of private property only made things worse. You'd think that property would be handed down matrilineally since it's easier to trace descent by the mother (hard to miss a pregnant belly). But nah, that thing with the farming probably paved the way for patrilineal inheritance of property. And to "ensure" that the a kid is not from some random guy that the girl wasn't betrothed to or whatever, rules (legal or societal) were put in place to curb a women's sexuality. She had to be kept pure, she had to be a virgin, etc... etc... and submissiveness is what made a “good wife”

In conclusion: We couldn't just bang randomly anymore since we have to start thinking about inheritance. And the development of the events above placed the burden of curbing all the sex- fell on women.

this is really long, i just find it so interesting…

Moving on to today, I think gender roles are antiquated.. The biological difference in strength, however subtle, has very little to do with how one contributes to society.

>>14
On how long is enough to change our physiology… Humans haven’t really been around that long, so any differences in biology from sexual selection is very small and is most likely reversible over time.

(It’s interesting how much we focus on the subtle differences in men and women (besides the obvious baby making parts), especially since males and females are very similar in structure compared to other species.)