Initially, I was attracted to Durarara! due to some of its dark premise (Suicide triggers according to *some people* and yes I haven't read all of the light novels) since Death has always intrigued me (Read Denial of Death by Ernest Becker!), and the fact that I can strongly relate to both Izaya and Mikado -- looking for interesting things.

I'll start by saying I don't have any major problem in my life as of now (which I think I SHOULD be thankful of)... but I think thay's what makes my life so mundane.

I love philosophizing (heck, I love philosophy) and wondering. The more I grew up, the more I realized the world is full of things I can do and that the number of things I can become are limitless! Ah~ but I always seem to find myself in inactivity. At the end of the day, I feel quite empty, as you can say. Don't get be wrong, I've tried many things -- bass, piano, digital arts, dancing, languages, science, etc... and I truly enjoy doing these things... but why can't I seem to sustain the enjoyment and passion?

Perhaps my interest in there things are superficial? I'm pretty sure I genuinely became interested in these things.

I'm sorry if I seem to have confused you. Basically, I'm just wondering... what more is there to life? I'm just utterly bored (as of the moment, perhaps)...

((I can say more, but I'll leave it at this for now...))

One other thing, don't get me wrong! I'm not suicidal or anything of that sort. It is merely the mystery and idea of 'death' that introgues me, not 'dying'.

I know the feeling. It's actually a large matter of despair for me that I really can't care about things I should care about. I decided to throw in the towel and stop trying and focus on things I can legitimately enjoy. I'm going to sell most of my stuff and travel to escape the machine for a while. I also have a long list of things I enjoy, but don't have the drive for. I just reason that it isn't stimulating enough after being in the grind all day, so I have to do more drastic things to offset the feeling that I'm wasting the majority of my time working.

As far as philosophy goes, life is much more interesting to me. Even moreso entertaining thoughts on what is real based on human perception vs. the perception of other crratures or even just other people. Death is seemingly finite, life is infinite. And yet they're kind of the same thing in the end.

Firstly, thank you for your reply, Prototape. I appreciate you sharing your thoughts on this topic. It's frustrating, isn't it? It feels like I'm stuck in a loop somehow... although I'm sure if I can describe it properly. Ahhh, I never thought I'd experience such a thing this young an age (let's just say I'm at that age to study in university).

Ah yes, of course! The concept of universality among human beings in interesting indeed. Related to that, (uiversal) morality is fascinating as well. Ah I didn't mean life is any less interesting, though. I really meant death in itself is interesting (well, as far as I'm concerned, in the philosophical and psychological perspecrice). We create so many systems in an attempt to deny death, mortality, and our being finite. Then again, denying death is the only way to enable us to function 'normally'. Death is too terrifying, too mysterious a concept for us to stomach (well some of us). That's the premise which intrigues me~ well, mostly.

Thank you again for your input!

errr at that age studying in university? Ahhh, I'm not sure how to phrase it properly sorry! English isn't my first language OTL basically pre-adult... ahh teenager? This is irrelevant, sorry!

I'm sorry for this third reply (if only there was an edit button... given you can't have a permanent account, that would be complicated, wouldn't that?) I forgot to add something.

Traveling, yes! I would also like to travel by myself sometime. I feel like travelling is a great way to stimulate my senses and get back that feeling of "earthliness". With that, I bid you the best of luck!

Yeah... before you find what you want to do in your life, it seems pretty boring.
I've tried any things too, but the only thing that has caught my attention is Basketball. But... I can't play it now, because it's almost winter. Now I'm pretty much bored out of my mind. And school is kinda stressing me out. I almost don't have time for myself, but, if I had, I wouldn't know what to do..
Also, I wouldn't like to live a normal life. I would like to die a somebody. Someone that a majority of people know. I don't know why I would like to have this, but I think it would be more interesting.
All my life I had been wondering, what I might become... And I think that finally I have figured it out- a psychologist. I like talking to people, that have problems or something like that (I kinda remind myself of Izaya).
(PS. Sorry for my grammar, just like you, my first language isn't english.)

>>7 Thank you for your input, marta03.

Is it also possible that someone would want to be everything? Ah~ it's a bit too pretentious to say something like that, but I don't want to limit myself to one thing.... but then again if I don't focus on one thing I can't really enjoy it. Perhaps this is my dilemma? I do try to do things one at a time, but the problem seems more complicated than that.

Ah yes, I also wouldn't want to live a normal life... so much, that I actually am wishing for a zombie apocalypse to happen. I don't think it's a bad thing to want to die a 'somebody'. Keep at it! And wow, a psychologist! That's really nice. The best of luck with all of those!

>>8 I understand that feeling of wanting to do everything, i mean i literally cant do things 1 at a time and i'm always changing my mind about what i want to do so many times already~.

You're not the only one wishing for a zombie apocalypse/something along those lines!

But life is too short to do everything so i hope you can find something that you truly enjoy!!

Hello Daim~ Thank you for your correspondence.

I do that quite a lot too, heh.

I see. Well, it's good to see I'm not the only one hunting for a different/interesting life.

Thank you so much~ although that advice is a bit too obvious, it actually feels good to be reminded of things like that. As it stands, I'll have to deal with my being limited. I truly, truly hope I would finally find something that I can truly enjoy. I wish the same to you too!

Hey there. I also have this problem. I would say that I'm kinda like a Jack of all Trades and it's always difficult for me. For some reason I always want to do new things and learn it. At the moment I want to be better in drawing but I also want to get better at using Illustrator. Sometimes I wish I had more time for myself and less for work or school. So I can only focus on the stuff I actually want to do. I like Psychological Stuff and sometimes want wish I could study it. But it would take so much time and I love to spend my time correctly.
But just a week ago I saw a video how a person creates a bracelet and it looked so cool. I want to do it too but I don't have the right equipment and haven't studied this typ of stuff. It makes me so frustrated. I'm also envious of people who are good at what they're doing at. I'm good but many people are better because they only concentrate on that one thing. T_T I also want to get better instead of doing or learning everything!

Hi eccochem! Thank you for your reply.

That's exactly what I go through a lot! I see tons of cool things to do, I have this tendency of just jumping into anything. It never really makes anyone the BEST at any field, I guess.

That's true. We're both ends of the same spectrum. Not just wanting to be everything, but also wanting to specialize in everything.

Here's a quote I just recently found on the internet, as I was searching for quotes for a friend. I don't know if Silvia Path actually said this, but that's beyond the point. This is just so point on, yes?

Here's my take on this. You need something new. Learning an instrument, reading books, learning things you don't know are new to you but not to the world, you're just learning something that someone else started. Everything you read someone wrote so you're emptiness might be from the fact that no matter how much you read and learn, it's always something that someone else knows more on. In a way, you're simply copying them or trying to go in their footsteps.
Your quote seemed very appropriate to this. There's too much knowlege that we can learn and not enough time. In my opinion what we need to do is bring something new into the world. If we just research and learn from others then we just gain their point of views and perceptional biases that they aren't aware of.

From my experience there are many hidden secrets to this world that people are completely oblivious to. It's not unless you create your own unique perception and figure things out for yourself that you'll find them.

And now's the part where I apologise in advance for making no sense. Communicating what my thoughts are accurately isn't my strong point... But
I guess it's worth a shot anyway, I just hope you get what I meant. Also, this is just my opinion, feel free to believe differently and disagree with me. But yeah, I'm off, best of luck with it ^^

>>13 Thank you for your reply, toforeversigh.

I must admit, your insights were very profound and touching; they really hit me. Perhaps all this time, all I've really done was follow the footsteps of others, never really surpassing anyone. You're right. It's just that, I've always been fascinated by different perspectives. I guess just knowing/reading about them isn't much to go on with.... ahhh, it all seems a lot clearer now, though I doubt mere clarity would solve everything. Nonetheless, I guess I've yet to find (or create) what I truly live for.

I perfectly understood what you meant, don't worry.

Thank you, toforeversigh. I appreciate your time and effort making this reply.

You seem to share the same insatiable nature that I am cursed with, so I will put this as simply as possible: top worrying what others think about you, and do what you enjoy. There's no need to question morality when it comes to your desires, as morals are simply based on opinions of what is "right" or "wrong". If you want something, do what is "right" by your standards alone - things may just get a bit more interesting then~

I see, so there's a lot of us in the same dilemma. Ah, not that I see myself as a special snowflake of course. I guess it wasn't wrong that I posted this.

Thank you for that advice Chrome. Though I firmly believe I've already caught on with that advice, and it has~ I guess you could say my problem is something a bit more internal.

But yes, I agree with your advice. Though sometimes, on a darker note, I am inclined to conform to my surroundings for the mere attempt of (manipulating them to) reaching my own goals. It sounds really, really pretentious, I know, but I do really think of it (a lot, recently).

Ahhhh, so there're still lot of people like that, I'm glad.

>>13 toforeversigh -> Your thought about this really got into me. I always look up to people that I admired and want to become like them. But deep down, I know that I'm no where near them. It's discouraged me sometime. But I'd better die trying ahaha.

Doing things that you love, passionate by it, and yeah, I got the same problem as yours, I can't sustain it either. I think It's because I was always doing everything alone. Yes, I am limited, but what about we? Well as you can see, humans achieve such a civilizations not just based work of someone, but many, many! Ok that was a little out of the topic there, sorry. Ehem

So personally talking, I think doing something with someone else have much more fun, effective and of course, last much longer, Right? But......yeahhh, I'm still alone now, well, I will get over it somehow.

So what more is there to life? Well, life is hard.... that what make it's valuable. Imaging playing a MMORPG game with a max level character that can one hit everything without even trying. Now that is boring,...at least for me. Just don't give up and get through the hard time, you will find the meaning in it :3. But yeahh, I admit it, it's still hard as ****, so it's okay to let your self relax a bit, don't worry about it too much.

Ah, I see. Thank you Hikaru!

I get your point (and thank you for sharing it)~ that's true, there truly are instances when things done together are more fun.

Though, the problem with this, you see, is that I am looking for a recreation that is mine, and mine only. Why? I think it's harder to sustain the interest and enthusiasm of other people towards something that is supposedly special to you, but not to them. I wouldn't want my 'hobby' to be dependent on anyone.

But maybe...just maybe.... if someone was actually interested in the same things as I am, that would be interesting. My current friends think of my taste in things as 'peculiar', 'weird', and 'atypical' (thought they meant it in a good way). I've had people who's shared the same interests, but due to some 'impediments' (the last one's girlfriend tried to kill me jk but no, really), we've corresponded less actively.

I appreciate your advices, truly! Thank you, thank you so much for that! But I'd just like to reiterate that... life is just neither hard, not easy for me. It's just...nothing (for now).

Anyway thanks and you too! I think I'm resolved in getting a perfect WPA/QPI this semester in uni. Goodluck to you too!

I love that we all seem to have a similar dilemma.

Numerous times in my life, I have tried to fill the void of the mundane with obnoxious behaviours and intellectual quests.

Everything seems to leave me astray, wondering if there is a point to it all. I've also grown irritated and superficial about my feelings and my friendship parameter has become sparse, if not completely dissolved. What only remains is my antics of getting close to people, but eventually get bored of them or assume that they do not fit what I am looking for. So to my fellow dollars, the world isn't as bad as we thought....it is far worse and bleak. May we make it a better place. Good day to you all.

This is exactly what I feel. Wow. I've always been like this but it seems worse nowadays so I am desperately looking for some distraction from my thoughts and then I bumped into this thread. I'm also new here :) so nice to meet you all.

The thing is now I just don't feel boredom but also sadness and I really can't explain it properly. I also tried to do a lot of things and there is no doubt that I enjoyed doing them. However, I cannot also focus on one thing. I envied (yes, even though I know it's inappropraite) other people because they know exactly what they want and just be good at it. It just make me feel sad that I know in myself that I can do a lot better but I just don't.

I am thankful that I saw this thread and have read your words even though I am a little late :)

>>18 Ahh, good luck to you!
Sorry, communicating is not my strong point either.
One last thing, just my opinion. I find my self more clearly when I be with people that I care about.

>>18 I feel like this too nowadays and what I would tell you to do is to seek for something thrilling or different. Maybe try helping people, feed an homeless person and take breakfast with them, teach a kid how to do something you enjoy, start writing a diary as if it were a novel about your life. All of this comes from a future teacher (hopefully) Helping people or teaching children gives me peace of mind.

>>18 Thanks for your reply, Kamina. That's similar to my situation! The similarity is uncanny! I've realized my relationships with some people have grown superficial, as I am desperately looking for the interesting person I yearn to be friends with.

Perhaps this is what they commonly refer to as an 'existential crisis'? Ah~ another mystery of the human being.

>>20 Thank you and welcome to Dollars, Prim. I apologize if this thread suddenly reminded you of the realization of how mundane the world can be....especially since you were looking for a distraction from it. Though, thank you for still taking your time to reply. Ah, I guess it's something we can only figure out for ourselves.....somehow.

There are countless interviews, books, and advices from countless successful people... but I realized that theirs are just supplementary. I think it'a really up to us to determine what we want and how bad we want it. Ahh, I'm making no sense sorry.

>>21 Thanks, likewise. Ah, yes. I respect that, and I'm glad for you for being able to discover more of yourself. Keep at it!

>>22 Thanks for your response, Algernon.
I have, that's what I've been doing since -- going through every exciting thing possible.... but never really enjoying them for too long. Ah, but also there ate other things which I haven't tried.

Ultimately, I'm looking for something. I'm not sure what, I'm not sure why, but I'm looking for something. Now I'm deciding whether the best way to satiate this desire is to keep doing what I've been doing (going through every single exciting thing possible) or not? Should I stop and look at where I am? How close am I in satiating this desire? Ah, I'm not even sure if I understand what I had written above. Sorry if I may have confused you, and thanks again. Goodluck on being a teacher!

>>24 Maybe in true movie fashion, your answer has been inside you all along <3 or maybe not. You should try traveling to a different country, broaden your horizons.

Hah, probably. Who knows, right? Ah, I've been to other countries. It's a great experience, but not as....refreshing as I thought. Perhaps it's because I was with my family~ someday, I might travel alone. Grasp everything with my own hands, breathe at my own pace, not worrying about anyone.

Also, I rewatched Durarara earlier. I guess it's true, everything can go pretty 'normal' real quick. We have to evolve to keep living exciting lives. Easier said than done, eh? I'm not so sure where to start heh. Ah anyway... thanks again.

I'm bored too. I've been waiting for my favorite anime characters to take me away and start a new fun life, but it hasn't happened. Well, just as the most fabulous person in history has said (Izaya Orihara), "“If you want to continue escaping from everyday life, you’ve no other choice but to keep evolving. No matter whether you’re aiming higher or lower.”

https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=zhS4bRVFAJ7g.k9NPHs-WQFtg&usp=sharing plot your points on the map so we can see where the concentration of our brothers and sisters are. It also has our dollar gmails linked to it for further connections :)

>>27 Ah, I wish that could happen... or, you know, zombie apocalypse. Hah. Ahh Izaya, so full of wisdom. Just can't hate him no matter how sick he is.

>>28 Thanks for this Kamina! Though I think I will have to refuse~ other Dollars members can participate if they want. I feel so comfortable with the anonymity of this forum, so I think I'll be preserving it. Thank you, though.

>>23 Thank you. Don't be sorry. I am actually quite relieved that someone's thoughts are (somewhat) similar to mine. There is no one I know personally who I could talk about this and beacuse of that I have always been alone in my thoughts. Though, I have friends, only a few (though many consider me as a friend, I think).

And one more thing. I was wrong to say that what you feel is exactly like mine (should be obvious). It is true that I want to try a lot of things if given a chance and have time to focus on each, one at time (impossible, life's so short). However, I am not asking the question "What more there is to life?" I know exactly what my desires are. It is just that I can't help but to think that everything is pointless when I will just die at the end or maybe now xD. I think that is the reason I want to do everything but also not at the same time (so confusing). I think the true escape is believing that there is a purpose in everything you do and then when you realize there is none, there comes the emptiness and boredom.

Like you, (the idea of) death interests me because that is something beyond my grasp. I also think that only death can solve the mystery behind it (as of now) so since everyone dies, I will just patiently wait for it. That makes me not a suicidal eh? xD

Ah, yes. Same here. The anonymous nature of this site makes it easy for us to communicate our thoughts candidly and honestly.

Yes, I do realize that. I know not every one of us feel exactly the same, just to some extent. Ah, let me clarify that. When I asked "What's more is there to life?", I did not mean I ran out of things to do. In fact, there are tons of things to do. I meant to say, is there more to life than continually chasing and achieving our dreams? I might be asking the impossible though, who knows. In fact, it might even be part of our nature to never become satisfied with anything for a long time. I think it can be both a good thing and a bad thing. Like I said... err what Izaya said -- we have to keep evolving if we want to live extraordinary lives. It sounds cheesy, yes, but it really is deep. Ah, purpose. Can we really impose a (permanent and single) purpose upon ourselves? Is looking for a purpose perhaps the purpose of our journey? Ah, I wonder~

Ah, yes. My philosophy professor once asked "What is the point if living if we're gonna die anyway?" and I tell you, I've heard and thought of some very interesting things. But ultimately, it's something only I (or you) can answer.

Ah! It's interesting, isn't it? If I can describe the feeling of thinking about death, it would be awe; both mystifying, yet frightening. Well, death comes to us all. The anticipation of which or otherwise would not make a difference, so I suppose not haha.

>>14 I'm glad I could help, or at least say something interesting. It's nice to know I can make sense sometimes.

>>17 It's nice to know I'm making an impact :). And yeah you pretty much summed it up, it all comes back to that we're alone. But if we're with the wrong people it's pretty much the same as being alone.

>>18 I thought about that too but if if we find someone who we truly connect with and have as a true friend then they become a part of us don't they? Isn't being empty, being alone and having your other half missing? But I guess that when it comes down to using the word "friend" and things like that it can get a bit confusing depending on our definition of them and stuff.

>>19 I'm no optimist but I'm no pessimist either. I think that we only see the bad in the world, which is everywhere and makes us think everything's like that. But isn't it the comparison that makes the good even better? Life seems eternally boring and purposeless and lonely but that's only until we find something and then you will find yourself where you never imagined you'd be. That's the theory at least, but I see things like you do. The real world sucks, and doesn't show much sign of changing. I still like the idea that there's still things/people out there though that are what we are after. We might as well look for it and keep an eye out in case it exists right?

>>24 If this thing that we're looking for was easy to find then everyone would have found it by now. But it's this thing that we're looking for that makes people like us exist.

>>26 I feel like trying to find things exciting is more like finding a new distraction. What are we after? Are we looking for distractions or hoping to find something else? Or are we looking for something that's exciting in a different way, or on a different level than how we've always looked at things?

I feel like there's a lot more that could interest me in this thread so I figured I'd try and join in even though I hadn't posted for a while.

Friends... ah, it's hard trying to label something too vague. I guess the label doesn't ultkmately matter. As long as two people feel good being together, does it matter? Ah it might, but....

Well, that's what I think too -- is what I'm doing now (trying to feel everything) the ultimate actual purpose I seek? or is it merely a distraction? Ah, I guess I'll never know. Well, firstly, is it possible for me to know?

It's just like a question on God. Before we argue whether God exists or not, firstly, do we humans have the capacity to determine whether there is one? Ah, that's just a similarity I found.

Feel free to stick around. I always look forward to your inputs.

I intend to share some thoughts that I've gathered

humans are creatures who are not easily to be satisfied, honestly things are not complicated but we intend to let our complex mind drive in our lives because we are eager to learn and have more.. we have this constant development towards ourselves. (i think the feeling of searching and emptiness is part within us.)

what we do to self satisfy ourselves-- human flourishing,
we attempt to be the kind of human we try to be (in a philosophical point of view)


now in theology one way to satisfy ourselves is through to become ever more truly human and to live life accordingly.
so to have a relationship with others. to attain the ultimate end that is to be with God.

to sum up the thoughts.. I think to have a satisfying life is not only through attempting to be good at some aspects. it needs to have a co-relationship with others.
it's like how you feel when you help.
when you are good at some aspect but you don't share that common thing...it feels worthless, What's the point of knowing if you can't share it with others.

To have an end to a question we must have a wise decision of believing that that is the answer because if we don't we might ended up lost in those infinite loops of questions.
a theology prof told me it is satisfying to love than to live with endless questions.

>>31 Ah, that's what you meant. I'm sorry if I have misunderstood you. Regarding on what you've said, I can now used the word 'exact(ly)' xD. That is just the exact explanation why I am feeling a little depressed. I should have looked more deeply on what you've said.

I don't understand but reading your thoughts or talking to you people makes me a little happy. It's really my first time to talk online with people I do not know. I should have done this before. I just want to thank you guys (wut?).

>>32 In your response to >>19, I am definitely moved. I've got nothing else to say.

>>34 At the end of the day, it is always that humans are social beings. Most of us? xD

Your thoughts reminded me of a song that has this, "Wouldn’t it be easy with something to believe in that could give us more than here’s my work so where’s my pay to buy what I don’t need?" Ugh questions.

>>34 Thank you for sharing your thoughts, they are always welcome in this thread.

Ah, yes. If you say it that way, perhaps ignorance truly is bliss. Too bad we've realized how big human potential can be (well, not entirely... but we do know we CAN be capable of many things). Thank you for your other points as well. Shallow-minded people have it easy, then. Are there really people who are that shallow-minded so as to merely enjoy life for the fact that they don't realize the dilemma of being? Are there really people who can keep up being 'happy' for the entirety of their lives without ever stopping to think if there was more to life than the life they're living? I'm just curious, heh. Don't take it the wrong way.

Ah, correlating with other people... up until now, I've always considered that secondary. Primarily, I thought trying to understand oneself involved no one but oneself. You know, some kind of discernment, you might say. Ah, anyway I'll think about this some more. Thanks again!

>>35

You dob't have to apologize, Prim. It's better to be able to clarify things, since words (especially over the internet) can make some ideas very ambiguous.

I'm actually kind of glad you realize the value of this thread. For those who are eager to share their thoughts, to expose their core (well, somewhat their core) in an attempt to understand it -- ahhh, it's beautiful. You are always welcome here.

I'm glad you came across something meaningful in your first time. If you hace any queries regarding anything else, do ask. Have a great day, Prim!

To whom it may concern:

This thread might seem depressing and dark. I hope people would not be so quick to judge and say that the participants of this particular thread are suicidal, depressed, unmotivated, or anything entirely.

I can't speak for others, but as for me, I've continued functioning like your normal human... going about her daily life, interacting with people she hangs out with. I am not unmotivated to live, unmotivated to make friends, unmotivated to become good and better.

This is just part of the core of my being. This is where I dump questions I don't ask to people in real life, share thoughts I don't share in real life. I personally do not need your pity, care, or sympathy... I simply want to know how others feel towards the same subject. This thread has been beautiful, for me. It has widened my perspectives somehow and even piqued my interest concerning certain things.

Just because you refuse to expose 'weakness' (if you call talking about your existential dilemmas as weakness), it does not make you better than the rest of us. We are all ultimately equal. Nothig more, nothing less.

>>33 Yeah I feel like we need another word for something more than friends. There's people that you hang out with and like seeing but then there's a whole other level of connecting with someone that people aren't aware of or don't look for. I mean, things like true friends I look at as significant as "true love", and has to be that special to me for me to acknowledge it.
But thank goodness someone else looks at the existence of god that way, or at things in general. One of my mottos is that nothing is certain because in the end, after all the different factors and reasons we see, we're still only human and aren't perfect so we could be wrong. And with god, I feel like that's too simple of an idea, like I think we only can see so much and there's so much that we'll never know/find out here. But question; so are you Agnostic then? Just curious, and I guess we better try and leave religion and stuff out of this.

>>34 I think that saying that we're not truly/entirely satisfied might be more accurate, because I think there's different levels to it. People can find themselves reasons to live and to satisfy them through life but are never truly satisfied. Otherwise everyone would be a lot more curious and actively searching then they are now.
I mean people don't want to feel eternally lonely and empty, and a lot of people can't put up with something like this so in my opinion it almost looks like our natural reaction is to find something to satisfy us enough so that we don't have to be this way.
Because I'm reading it in order I didn't notice it at first but if you don't get what I mean my thought process is pretty much a different way of saying this >>37
It tends to cone down to this kind of question a lot: Is it better to live a happy lie or a painful truth?
Or another one. Is knowledge a gift or a curse? Once you find something out you can't unlearn it.
And yeah, you have a point. That tends to be a problem that comes up with me as well, but rather than saying that I need to figure myself out before looking for others I like the idea of finding others and discovering myself as I go along, with their help.
And talking to others really helps us think and figure things out because even writing/typing a thought might trigger another thought to come up that you can build off of and come up with new things. And reading others thoughts and views can trigger new thoughts and ides of your own, or even just learn something interesting in general that you can build off of. I swear I really need to get involved in more threads like this, they can be very interesting sometimes :).

Also, this >>39 You put that very well Fenress :)

>>40 I agree. 'Friends' (the word) can only encompass so much... but then so does any word, really. Hah.

I am glad you agree. As my professor in Philosophy always stressed, we should not cling on to the idea that man is the measure of everything (I forgot which philosopher actually said this). I find this position very careful, very considerate, and very logical. So far, this principle has served me quite well. This has allowed me to be more accepting of the mystery of the world and our being. Of course, it doesn't stop me from questioning or pondering. Quite the contrary, it has encouraged me to do so.

Ah, yes. I, too, refuse to accept the idea that the concept of God is too simple so as to be reduced to something so understandable. Of course, I could be wrong, hah.

Well, I don't mind discussing some views on religion here. And to answer that, yes I am Agnostic. I'm assuming you are too?

Ah! I would also like to raise something. Though, feel free to recognize it or not.

Do you believe in finding yourself or creating yourself? Is there such a thing as a 'true self'? If so, would it not follow that there would be a 'fake self'? There are no right or wrong answers. I am open for any position you might take concerning this topic.

As always, thank you again for replying! I look forward to your next one.

>>41 Yeah, I'm Agnostic, and I have to say, you keep surprising me with what you say, it's really great to know other people think like this :). I don't trust this world, but you're getting a lot closer than I expected to find in this kind of world.

Okay, let's see... Do I think I'll find/create myself? It's hard to say, simple answer yes though. However I'm not sure how it works though, because it probably doesn't work in the way we'd expect it too. Like in a story there's the developing of oneself where they figure things out but will there be a point when we've figured everything out? Or rather, our views and ways of looking at things become set in stone? Maybe it's the fact that we're still moving and changing that makes it us. Or maybe we don't truly become ourselves until one of our next lives/existences on a different level, like after the ending of a story. I don't know, this kind of thing is what I hope to figure out. I am lost and confused but I feel like I more or less am most of who I want to be though, but I can't say how much I'm missing though.
But with the true self/ fake self thing I guess it might be different with me because I "put on a mask" in the real world and pretend I'm still the person I grew up as. When we're young we're heavily influenced by our family so until we figure out our true selves we are pretty much like a reflection of them. Maybe it's just me but I was so shallow and stupid before I discovered this me and I completely changed from my past self. However, the real world didn't so I leave my old self lingering on a little longer to avoid causing problems. It's not until I'm around the right kind of people that I can be me irl, but I do hope to eventually be able to leave behind my old self though, I just have no where to go. But Is there like a secret "you" within all of us who we want to be but just ignore or don't see? I don't know how it works, there might just be a lot of shades rather thsn two completely different "you's".

I feel like I can talk too much about myself and stuff and miss too much. Maybe I'll do a blog or something. Email me at toforeversigh@gmail.com, just for future reference and so that I can link you to my blog when I put enough stuff on it. I just don't feel like this is the place to talk so much about these things because everything leads to new things which I want to talk about and it's all just way too much DX. But I'll still post on these threads too, and say what I can.

Ah! Before I finish reading your reply, I failed to emphasize that you had to choose between the two: FINDING yourself or CREATING yourself.

>>42 Ah, I see. As expected of a reasonable and logical man as you. I feel privileged to be here conversing with the likes of you! Feels liberating being able to comminunicate your thoughts honestly. Ironically, to a stanger. People I come across to everyday are.... eh, too shallow for my type of topics. I don't blame them though; perhaps they're the same as me, more comfortable opening up to strangers AS strangers across the internet. Ah, the irony!

Although I expected a different direction to your answer (my bad for failing to emphasize >>43), I agree with your points. The mechanics of becoming... ah, still full of mystery.

I feel I was more genuine towards things when I was younger too. Perhaps the ignorance made it so... but I don't regret changing, though. Err-.. I'm not saying I'm not ignorant now! Perhaps we're on a new level of ignorance, hah. Ah, you're probably right with the different shades of you's. That explains why at times, for me personally, I can be at either end of any spectrum. Humans are constantly not constant? Heh.

Thank you for that! I will send you an email if I need to~ or perhaps one of these days. Your blog would be interesting. Thank you!

We're two complete strangers; I've never heard of your voice nor seen your face. At this point, if I come across you in real life, I would not even probably recognize you (well, everyone else in here too).

Yet we've conversed deeper than a lot of my real-life acquiantances. Ah, this is quite...astonishing. Thank you, I feel grateful.

>>43 Okay, I need to think of this now, but now that I think about it my thoughts from before might have been a little confused without choosing one or the other. So here's the question then; Can you create something when you're nothing? Do you start off as yourself but have to find yourself and figure it out or do you have to make yourself? I can't seem to figure out the last part to that, I mean, how do you know what you want if you're not you? It doesn't really make sense to me because we don't even really get a choice on who we are anyway, because it's just luck in the end I guess, from what we can know.
And yeah now that I reread your question I completely misunderstood what you said, I guess I read it wrong or something. I can be a bit unobservant and easily confused sometimes... I feel so dumb now DX
But in the end I don't know. I'd say that it would be mainly finding ourselves but I do think that it's possible to deny/change fate I guess? Like, if it was all decided that we'd have our hidden self or "true self" to find then we might decide in the middle of our journey to go a different path and become the "you" that isn't just predetermined...or something... Yeah, I can't really say anything that makes sense to me on this, so I'll just leave it at that, if I figure something out I'll let you know.

Yeah, I find people in the real world shallow too, but that's a bit to do with other things I guess. And I love being anonymous! Although, I don't really do that too much because this is who I am now. But you figure things out when communicating with others and being able to do it anonymously means that you don't have to worry about people getting strange impressions of you if you miscommunicate what you mean or say, which I have done many times in the past.

You feel like you were more genuine towards things when you were younger... Okay, I don't know what to think of this, but that's nothing like how I've been looking at things. Can you be genuine when you're ignorant? I mean, I sometimes look at it as innocent and pure, but if there's a true part of myself/themselves that they're involuntarily ignoring then is what they do really genuine? I think I've always chosen truth over happiness and don't really like the idea of living a happy lie, or being ignorant. It's my choice and I don't blame others for choosing that path but I have trouble looking at it sometimes.
And if you felt more genuine when you were younger does that mean that you have some kind of hidden motives or something now days?
And yes we are consistently inconsistent. Also, I tend to think that even the contradictory is possible, sometimes it's not a shade of grey but rather both white and black at the same time.

And yeah, it's strange isn't it? I mean for all we know we've already met. It reminds me of a random manga story I read where a couple both weren't too interested in their relationship and went anonymous online and met someone that they really connected with and then eventually met them in real life just to find out it was each other XD. There are sides of ourselves that we don't show in the real world, could that be our true self maybe?

As always, thanks for your thoughts toforeversigh!

As for that question, perhaps it would be better to phrase it this way; do you believe we have a pre-determined personality which we are to seek for? Or do you believe we ultimately start with nothing, and that we create ourselves with our choices whether we are aware of it or not?

As for me, I choose the latter (then again, nothing can be certain). Whether we are aware of it or not, we ultimately decide whether we allow things to change us or not (personality-wise).

As for me being more genuine when I was young, I meant I did nothing to supress what I felt and what I thought. If I experienced distaste, I would show it. If I love something, I would show it. Nowadays, there has been a separation between what I feel and what I show I feel. Just like you, I also wear a mask (somehow) in the real world. I believe most of us do, though. Now, even though I think I'm still ignorant, I am aware of it; which makes a very BIG difference concerning my views and perspectives. I've also always preferred the painful truth. I find life more profound that way.

Perhaps that is the beauty of the human being! Being able to hold and maintain contradictory aspects together.

Ah! Perhaps! This is so strange. Hah.

Perhaps this is where we finally have different views. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you're leaning towards the existence of a pre-determined true self, yes? I based this on you saying you cannot be genuine if there's a true part of yourself you've been involuntarily ignoring.

As for me, I believe what you are is what you are now. You can find your true self, but that's ultimately you looking for thepieces you want, all in an attempt to modify (create) yourself. So for me, your past self isn't NOT you, it's still you. WAS you. But we evolve~ we can only hold so much; hence, we discard the personalities we deem useless and gather nore personalities we want. It is worthy to note that I meant people do all these whether they may be aware of it or not.

Of course, these are all speculations. I don't limit myself to these alone.

Wait, I believe I have to clarify that what I meant of someone being genuine (in this particular context) is someone whose external actions conform completely to that of his internal thoughts. No supression, no hidden reactions, nothing.

I guess that is another way of looking at it, but the idea of creating something from nothing just doesn't make sense to me,and in this life it just feels like we become the result of all of the different factors that affect us adding up, which means it's all chance really. But I'm not going to pretend I know how it works, there's obviously something I'm missing here. But I wouldn't have used the word seek before, by the way. I would have said that we have a pre-determined personality that we develop to become, for that example/option that is. It makes me feel like we're in a story that way, which I kind of like the idea of. I wonder how much of things we really have control over though, that's the main difference between our views on this I feel.

So are you saying that you were more open and honest? That kind of thing? Because now days we are aware of more factors and can't just blurt out what we want to say, we try to take into account other factors. Like people won't just say things to someone that could hurt their feelings, or say how dissatisfied they are with something. You feel like you can't be like that anymore in the real world, like you have to follow the protocols given and keep your true feelings to yourself. Is that what you meant? Maybe I took that the wrong way... I think it's got something to do with the word genuine though, I just can't use it for some reason. I'd say innocent or pure, but genuine just isn't something I picture myself saying for some reason. Maybe I involuntarily don't believe that ignorance and being genuine go together and think of the world as too ugly imperfect for it to exist here. I don't know, it's one of those problems with words and our definitions on them again, they tend to come up a lot for some reason. These limitations are pretty frustrating.

But I tend to look at it that we've gotten the wrong impression of how this world works, like there's some factor that we involuntarily always assume works in a certain way that doesn't. I think there are hidden secrets in this world to discover, and making everything so unknown and strange makes it more interesting that way :D

Well, I wouldn't say we have completely nothing to start with. I guess the safest thing I could say right now is that...

To a certain extent, the way things stand now (for me), I have both unfreedom and freedom. I am not free from the circumstances and the effects which happen to me, but I am free to deny them from changing me.

And yes, that was what I meant. Ah, I see. I'm sorry (again) for using 'genuine' carelessly. I just didn't think there would be a better word to encompass what I meant by it. That's beyond the point now as it seems you've understood what I meant.

Well, I believe they can somehow. A simple and common example would be this; because Person was ignorant of the fact that Human had cancer, Person freely made jokes of cancer to Human. Person did not present any disposition of tack mainly because Person was ignorant of how it would affect Human. If Person knew of this fact, Person would have chosen not to make those jokes instead. Ah, excuse this example, it was very childish, wasn't it? The point is, Person would have supressed the urge to make cancer jokes if Person knew of this fact. He would have supressed or denied this action. But yes, that's what I meant. Ah, innocence can describe this too. Ah, I can't get over how childish the example is, but basically yeah.

I think I got what you meant though. How can we truly know what we feel if we don't know exactly what is this thing (or item) we're supposed to feel? Is that what you meant? Because that is completely acceptable to me too~ though I believe this is another story.

Sorry for confusing you (and myself).

Then again, these are all speculations. Nothing is certain. I won't pretend I am all-knowing.

Nonetheless, these are some of the things I believe. Besides, what else have I got to hold on to? Hah. Thanks again for taking your time to reply, toforeversigh. Also, I've sent you an email. Ding!

P.S. Just saying, you don't have to feel obliged to keep the topic going (though if you still want to, feel free). I am quite comfortable with anything under the sun, so don't worry about dropping anything. Besides, the topic seems very obscure (especially with the obscurity with words). Feel free to open anything or something.

>>48 Whoops, I guess you posted this while I was writing my other post. Good thing I noticed it just then
But I'm not really leaning on either side of the fence, I really don't know how it works. I think my thoughts are best summed up by saying that I don't know, but think that the factors that take place here aren't from this existence. I try to think too much about it logically or find a theory that works but I tend to think that in the end I don't know. Actually, I changed my mind, I think that if I were to pick between the two I would say that there's a hidden self that we have that we have to find. I don't like the word predetermined anymore though, although it's accurate I think it gives the wrong idea. But ultimately I still would say that I don't know.
Actually, now that I think about it I guess I'll have to think more of this, because whether we become someone who's truly "us" or are ourselves the whole time and just change isn't something that I really put much thought into. I'll leave it at that for now though.
And with the what you said of being genuine I get what you mean but I keep looking at it in the wrong way because I tend to doubt if what people think is truly what they think (did that make sense?), but I get what you mean though.
I was thinking true thoughts(or intentions maybe)-thoughts whereas you meant thoughts-actions. Maybe that was a better way of saying it.

>>50 Yeah, that was the other thing, I can't really know what we start off when we come here, and how close to nothing we are. However, when it comes to things changing you, if you aren't aware of them or that they're affecting you then you have no choice over it. Like when we're younger and don't understand what's going on we can be influenced by anything. And if we can choose to ignore them then would they even affect us much to begin with? I feel like there are way too many different factors that influence us that you don't realize, and also keep in mind we don't have a say over things like our gender, race, family, what we look like and things like that, which will affect us.

I'm going to be honest, but I'm not entirely sure what your example was referring to. However, I don't really like the idea of having to hold yourself back because you're worried about someone else's feelings. With strangers I guess it's fair enough but I don't think it should work that way with people you're close to. That's why I clarified those two things about me before, so people don't have to hold back when talking to me. This rant probably wasn't related to anything though...

And I wasn't really looking at what we feel but rather where it came from. Is it our feelings if we don't know where it comes from? How do we know we weren't just given these feelings? I mean if there's someone/something that created us then are we what he made us or are we still ourselves? I dunno, something like that.

And yeah, I'm starting to get really confused with things now. The more we figure out the less we understand, or something like that ^^

>>52 Darn, you reply so fast I can't keep up! But yeah, I think I was just after interesting people with this thread and didn't really expect to find anyone who was truly nothing. I do like talking about these kind of topics but there's not really anywhere to do it. I might just leave the thread alone then if nothing else happens.

I like that; ultimately, we don't know. We can't know. We don't even know if it's knowable to start with.

Basically, I think you got what I meant. Dwelling on my example any further would be pointless, so I will leave it at that. And I do agree, with people holding back. The things we do, the things we feel, we can only describe it so much to someone. Perhaps that is the best way to put it, I meant thoughts-actions and you meant thoughts-thoughts.

That's true. This is the most confusion I've had on this site; well, mostly because I was also confused with my own ideas to begin with. And for that, I apologize.

Ah, I thought so. With the way things are around here, anyone could just disappear off the site. Before you do, thank you for sharing so much about you and your thoughts here. Much appreciated.

Ah, I've been thinking.... about how I want to proceed with life. Do I want to be honest and sincere? Or do I want to be antagonistic and scheming? Ah, disregard this. Have a good day...

Lol. What are you? Orochimaru?

For me, I try to make my life interesting by being slightly antagonistic and scheming. Although, if you're not a good liar, I recommend you don't lead that kind of life. Why am I like this? Because I find find it fun. You're way too young to say you're bored with life. Try more things. There must be something for you out there that you can stick to.


If you're bored with your life, try getting into art or photography. It's pretty different from most hobbies. If you have already tried them, well, I failed.

I'm fairly philosophical too but trying to get out my disordered thoughts on a deep topic like this and putting then into words is the equivalent of vomiting for me; it's painful and if I recall, I don't believe anyone understands vomit language. All I can say is, keep living like you are right now and your problem will solve itself on its own. You might find that you'll find yourself a purpose of sorts, but regardless of what happens, do your best!

How am I Orochimaru? Hah. Interesting.

Ah, in case you missed it, I said it's not that I'm bored because I ran out of things to do... it's just that I've been repeating the cycle of diving into practically anything and consistently getting bored of it after a while. And yes, I have tried photography and art (made art one of my permanenet hobbies -- digital arts, traditional arts like watercolor and sketching) but thank you anyway.

I wouldn't say I'm a great liar, but I'm a better liar than the people around me. I suppose I share the same sentiment -- being cunning seems fun, albeit quite risky. I guess it's something you can't quite do half-assed.

Yes, it's hard expressing something extremely abstract as this -- especially considering the restrictions of using mere words. Ah, but I've gotten good points from this "vomitting", so I can't say I regret it.

Thank you, I will have to contemplate on that further (to keep living as I do now). I believe in adressing a problem by acknowledging it, but yes, letting things be may work too. Thank you, Holo.