I'm Atheist, And no people that doesnt mean I worship the devil,I wanted to see if i can find more then 10 people who are atheist, please show the world that we are not bad people.

One.

Bananas. This thread seems particularly useless imo.

Imo? i just need to see if i can find 10 people out of 140225 people.

There is not that many. That is merely an ip counter. The real number is like.. 100 regular people that dont just come for the chatroom

guess your right, that means 10 people would be an even better acheive ment, im jsut doing this because so many good people are atheist and i seen so many assholes make these lame terrible acuzations about them.

There's fairly a lot of atheists on this site, but yeah, what's the point of this thread, lol?

im an atheist! thank god im not the only one. seriously people think we like the devil but i just really dont see any proof that god is real. its just something a guy wrote in a book and told everyone it was real. plus if there was a god then somebody tell me why there are so many people starving and being abused? and no, the excuse theres a reason for everything doesnt cut it!

I'm an atheist

>>8 You ask the age old question of "If god exists, then why is there suffering?". Now in order to answer that question you need to understand that there are two ways you can ask it. The 1st being the intellectual way and the 2nd being the emotional way.

The intellectual way says "How can god exist if evil also exists?" as if god and evil are two beings that can't coexist at the same time.(If evil exists then god can't exist, and if god exists then evil can't exist. And since there is evil, that means there is no god.) But the problem with this argument is that there is no reason to think that god and evil are logically incompatible, after all there is no explicit contradiction between them.

Also, if you believe that there is wrong in the world you have to believe that there is right too, and in order to define right from wrong you need laws to separate them, and in order for there to be laws there needs to be a law giver. So there needs to be a god to hold these objective moral values in place. If you think atheism threw, it doesn't hold any objective moral values so it would be impossible for an atheist to confront the problem of evil.

Now the emotional question is "If god exists then how could he allow evil to exist?". We as humans are limited in observing time, space, and intelligence, apposed to god who is omnipotent. So when we see the evil in the world it is natural for us to question if there is a god. But since we are limited in how we observe we can't see the out come of things as god can.

To put it simple I'll enplane it using chaos theory. It is said that a butterfly flapping its wings in west Africa can set forces in motion which later down the line could cause a hurricane over in the Atlantic. But no one looking at this butterfly would ever guess what a big role he's playing. So in order to achieve his ends god might have to put up with certain evils. And since we are limited in how we observe we might not be able to see the out come of things which could occur hundreds of years from now or even in an other country.

Also you said that there is no proof that god is real. Here is one piece of evidence out of millions that shows there is a god.

The number of seconds in the history of the universe is said to be about 10 to the 18th power, the number of subatomic particles in the whole universe is around 10 to the 80th power. Now consider the following with those numbers in mind. Donald page (an American cosmologist) calculated the odds of the universe being created by chance, as being 1 chance out of 10, to the power of 10, to the power of 127. I don't know if you've done scientific notation before, but that is a big ass number.


Sorry if this was too long,

P.S. I don't think you worship the devil....YAY!!

I'm agnostic. Science proves most of the things that "god" does. Like creating the earth. I believe that it was just the Big Bang Theory.
My whole family is Roman Catholic and that's how I was raised. But now i'm moving towards athiesm... (O.O)

personaly i think Oh_Yeah!!XI8GEi6V >>11 just stole that from some page for the term, "if god doesnt exist then how can evil exist" is coming from the term that atheist belive in evil and wish the worst.
the true point was to attract people like him to show me what people think.
also all that mumbo jumbo crap? like butter flys dieing or ghost or tarrot cards, their not atheists thing, im not realy speaking for all of them.
any way atheist only mean you belive the creation of the world and everything that happens is explaineble by science and chance, period.
and also there is a bigger theory behind the creation then just a giant explotion.

I'm atheist as well.

>>12
But Science cannot actually prove anything before the Big Bang. How did the Universe before it, get created? Because there had to be something, for that something to explode.

Science can only prove things after the Big Bang. That is where people start getting the "God and Science" fight mixed up. Because they don't have the means to explain that far back.

>>13 If I'm translating that partially correct, it seems to me like you're saying an atheist has to believe in science and science only. However, being an atheist just means you don't believe in God. It doesn't mean that you don't believe in anything else. Atheists don't believe in an ultimate creator, however, that doesn't mean that they don't believe in other supernatural phenomena, and it doesn't mean that they believe everything can be explained by science. No doubt, though - atheists very strictly belive in there being no God.

There are all kinds of atheists. It's sort of hard to explain, mainly because it hasn't been broken down into groups like religion has been.

I would say that I'm an agnostic atheist. I don't believe in God, but I don't go around preaching that as knowledge. I believe everyone has a right to believe as they please. If it turns out there IS a God, then whatever, I believed wrong. I'm not dead, so I don't know anything for sure and can't decide what is and isn't real. Personally, though, I believe Gods are BS created to make sure society follows certain rules.

>>16 believe*

>>16 Everything in This.

I am people always tell me things like your going to hell but oh well

Not Alone My Friend :3!

Church of Satan: Anton LaVey.

>>13 I don't think atheists believe in evil and wish for the worst. What I'm trying to say is that, how can atheists confront the problem of evil if they don't believe in a god to hold our objective moral values in place?

I was just using an example of chaos theory with the butterflys to show that sometimes our human observations of things is incomplete. We can't see the big picture at times and so in the case of evil we may not see the reasons god allows things.

Also not everything is explainable by science. Science can't tell us what is morally right or wrong, and it can't tell us what is ugly or beautiful.

I do not believe in religion so I guess that would classify me as an 'atheist'. I guess it seems that we just follow good morals, science and common sense when it comes to what to believe about things greater than life. This does not justify that we are messed up people haha :) Have a good day

>>16 that doesnt make any since you cant be both an agnostic and atheist. agnostics believe in the possible god and an atheist doesnt believe in any god or higher power.

>>24 An agnostic atheist truly and honestly believes that there is no God. However, they accept that believing in something isn't a fact. Just because you honestly believe that there is no God doesn't mean that there is, in fact, no God. That's like saying that you believe a white plastic bead is in fact blue. You can believe it all you want, but that doesn't mean its true.

>>25 Click here.

"Atheism:
The belief there was once absolutely nothing. And nothing happened to that nothing until the nothing magically exploded ( for no reason), creating everything and everywhere. Then a bunch of the exploded everything magically rearranged itself ( for no reason whatsoever), into self-replicating bits which then turned into dinosaurs. "

I'm not judging or anything I'm just asking, how does this make sense? I don't understand how you can look at a flower and just assume mathematics and/ or nothing created such beauty. Ever wonder why things are called miracles? It's because nothing can explain the situation, no equations, no assumptions, just simple faith that it happened for a reason.

I'm not trying to shove a religion at anyone, I just wanted to ask these questions because I don't understand. To some extent, I'm sure all of you who don't believe in anything have wondered and hoped if life was more than you assume it to be. I'm not trashing anyone or their beliefs ( my best friend whom I consider family is an atheist) I just hope you find what you're looking for in life. Will it hurt to go to a church and bring your questions there? What have you got to lose? Will it hurt to pick up a bible and read a few chapters, if you haven't done so just out of curiosity already?

Again, I'm not trying to shove religion down anyone's throat, I'm just wondering... Is it really so terrible to simply believe that something greater than yourself exists? Is it really so painfully to believe in something you can't see? People put faith in love that is a fragile gamble, why not put it in a constant something that will always be there through life and death? I know it's not easy and some will find excuses but I say and question these things because I sincerely hope and care for those who are unsure (I may just be like Izaya in the sense that I love humans if you wanna say that X3 ) .

>>27 Where the fuck did you get that definition--a church website? And the last part was unnecessary; the majority of us don't appreciate Izaya-wannabes.

There's nothing wrong with an atheist reading the Bible, of course. It's a great novel; one of the most successful novels ever written, in fact. Le Beau Roman, oui. However, that doesn't answer anyone's questions. How did things come to be? Why? When? Where? I'm sorry, but I don't view pastors or those in the church as anything greater than other people. They can't answer anything I can't. I've gone to church. I was raised Catholic until I was old enough to explain my own beliefs; then, I was given a choice, and this is the path I chose.

As I've said earlier, being an Atheist just means you don't believe in God. It doesn't mean that you don't believe in anything else. Being a Theist means you believe in God, whether you have a religion or not. Being an Atheist means you don't believe in God, whether you believe in anything spiritual or not.

People seem to enjoy twisting around definitions here.
"Theist" = God
"Theist" =/= Religion
"A" + "Theist" = No God.
"A" + "Theist" =/= No Religion.

Not all atheists belive in the "big bang," just as not all theists believe in a set religion. It's just the way it works.

>>28 Hm. Should clear this up, huh.
While I know the Bible does "answer" those questions, I'm also well aware of the fact that words from a novel don't mean anything to me. I'm not going to let a book explain life to me; the truth of life is something you have to figure out on your own. Only a coward would put their faith in an ideal written by someone else, in my opinion.

Keep in mind, I have friends who are Christians and Muslims and all sorts of things. I love them as they are. I don't hate people who believe in religion; I just don't agree with their ideas.

Everyone is an atheist.

"I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours." Stephen Roberts

>>30 As long as you believe in one God, you're a theist. You may be an atheist towards other religions' Gods, but that doesn't make you a complete atheist.

>>28 I'm sorry if I affended you but I didn't mean it in that sense. One thing that affended me in your reply is that you assume I meant presets and pastors were the higher sense. HECK NO, haha, I think people are stupid to put other people on a pedestal ( no offense to anyone who does, I mean the idea isn't right, not calling anyone stupid) who am I to think I'm higher than anyone? Who am I to judge what is wrong and right? Who are you to say I'm wrong in my opinion? Who is any other person who judges who will die and who will live?

I understand fully what an atheist is and how it can be broken down. I know it depends on every individual and what their opinion is. Same for those who are religios. It depends fully on the person youre asking. Never, will you get the same answer and never will it be completely different than the last.

( and izaya wannabe? Pleez, I was just giving you people an example of what I meant. Yes, my friends will say my phone does look like izaya got a hold of it but no, I don't wanna be anything like izaya if I can help it. I'm my own person and I don't model myself after any person, let alone a drawn anime character)

>>32 It's the internet. I don't get offended over things on the internet; I simply debate over them. Also, the second you compare yourself to Izaya, you get labeled as that. For future reference.

I'm not saying you're opinion is wrong. I'm saying that I don't believe in your ideas nor do I share your opinion, and that I don't believe people in a church have some magical power to tell me the secrets to life.

If life is a joke, I don't get it. No one does, I know that for sure. I wasn't, nor am I expecting us or anyone to come to a conclusion on this topic, I understand that everyone is different and that will never change, which I'm glad for.

( and thanks for the advice, though I don't care so much for labels, that's what made my life hell in middle school so Ive learned how to handle them)

>>34 I don't think life is a joke; I just think life is life. I live it to the fullest as well as I can. When I die, I die. I don't know two fucks about what's going to happen after then, so I just live in the moment and then aim for what I can.

We're people who can make their own choices, also to help others in need

>>29

A coward, huh? Then may I ask where you place your own faith? I find it hard to believe you simply spawned your ideals out of sheer will power, there must have been some inspiration for you, written or not.

I think calling people cowards for believing in anything at all is the wrong way to go about it; on the contrary, it takes an immense amount of courage to stand your ground when defending your own religion while others poke every hole in your logic they possibly can.

>>8 Also, am I the only one who caught on to the atheist thanking God that there were more atheists on here?

You think finding 10 people that share your belief will automatically make you a good person and not a bad person? A religion is not a symbol of one's character. There are good Christians and bad Christians, there are good Jews and bad Jews, everyone has it's "good" and it's "bad". Moreover who are anyone to say who's good and who's bad?

The only thing you can do is do what you believe is right, and not what others believe is right.

I've personally managed to postpone my religious problems (like every other normal person in the world) but generally regard atheists who look for other atheists and keep preparing the defense of, 'I don't worship the devil,' before anyone asks them as idiots. I've met people I've liked who are like that, but I tend to avoid talking to them about religion because they won't shut up. It's like they're more obsessed with it than people who actually believe in it.
And why the hell are you looking for 10 other people who are also atheists anyway? Do you want to get around for a circle-jerk on 'how you're not bad people' and that, 'Religious people are wrong'? You're surrounding yourself with people who will agree with you, not always people who you can talk to and not always healthy friends to have.
Sorry for assuming a lot of things but experience has taught me that you're isolating yourself more than other people (such as family and friends who believe in religion) are isolating you. You're just taking the wrong approach to this, and you seem kind of bitter about it...

Just a quick question, seeing as we're 40 posts into this thread already. I'm curious but also abstaining from getting involved, because apatheism is my favorite mindset to go by in a public setting, so I haven't read any posts in this thread yet.

Has a clusterfuck happened yet, or an atheist vs. theism argument? This thread was basically asking for it from the very start by being a calling for a bunch of people with a particular religious (or anti-religious) ideal, but I'm curious if by some miracle we've managed to avoid it.

Im an atheist, i'll leave with that to avoid fights

>>37 No, I still see it as cowardly. In my opinion, it is weak and shows that they lack the ability to think, breathe, and understand on their own. You can be the kindest person in the world and still be a coward or still be weak; that's only one aspect of a person's personality. However, I believe it's there. That is simply my opinion.

What are you talking about? My ideas spawned from my own beliefs, which weren't spawned by anything aside from me. I have enough personal evidence of my beliefs that I don't need a book to explain what I believe. Even though others may believe the same things as me (I have yet to meet them), I didn't get my ideas from them. Just like how things were invented on the East and West sides of the world without any communication between the two, people have overlapping beliefs.

The only inspiration I've had is my own experiences. I believe everything has an energy that is left over, and I believe the energy can take another form. The only thing spawned by others that I really believe in is luck and karma. If you do something wrong, something wrong will be done to you in time. I feel some people have better luck than others. That is the limit to my "spiritual" beliefs at this moment. I don't believe there is a God nor do I believe there are Gods. I don't believe there is an ultimate Salvation. I believe life is life. Humans are a form of homosapiens. We play our part in the environment, whether it is good or bad. Life is just that. You live it, and if you happen to be conscious in your energy left behind, then good for you.

Fuck, I could be completely wrong. Anything could happen after death. There may not be anything. But you know what? I'm not dead, and I don't want to be. The after life is none of my business, nor is it anyone else's. I think focusing on doing good here just for the sake of pleasing an imaginary figure is wrong. Even if He is real, I can't understand why someone would want to spend their life for another person. I'm willing to give my life for someone else, but I'm not going to live my life for someone or something that may not even exist.

>>40 There hasn't been any rage!debates, if that's what you mean. But people have been going back and forth a bit. A lot of people have contributed, as well.

>>42 This. So hard

>2012
>People still believe that an imaginary dude in the skies exists.

Lol k.

>>44 Also, this pretty hard.

uhmmm, yeah i am not saying atheist HAVE to belive in anything they dont need to belive in the big band, oh and they can prove matter befroe the big bang, you dont look at the right areas so you dont know the current info, anyway its just the non belife in the curent religions.
im just seeing the affect of other people who resint people who are not religiouse i dont look for protection or revolution, the world may do as it dose im just seeing the reactions so i can see the affects this simple post can stir. i have gotten what i wanted from this experiment thank you all. and know i dont think diffrently of anyone just for their beliefs.

>>46 "This experiment," huh? I feel BS flooding out of your virtual pores.

Just because you got proved wrong on points doesn't mean you can randomly say you're right without any support and randomly decide the topic should end. You didn't give any sort of deadline in the OP, so this is still a legitimate thread. Next time you decide to "experiment," please state so in the OP.

I'm Atheist. It doesn't mean your a bad person, and certainly doesn't mean we worship the devil. We just don't believe in religion for our own reasons. My parents are serious Catholics and they drag me to church every Sunday but i just dont understand any of it. None of this God and Jesus stuff makes any sense to me... oh well

BarabiSama Wikipedea can be changed dont rely on it also dont call people cowardly you have no right to everyone has there opinion i know but eveyone is the same on a physical level and a possible spiritual level if you believe in such a thing. All so if you dont have any solid facts then your argument mean nothing

Chromo atheist dont have a belief in any god gods goddess or any heavenly body.

I am a a person who believes in god but at the same time i believe in what charles darwin says "survival of the fittest"

HAIL SATAN /loljk

(Yes, I'm atheist.)

also your claim of agnostic atheist is a contradiction

>>49 >>51 No, I have every right to call someone a coward. Freedom of speech. This isn't an arguement; I'm stating my beliefs. It IS a fact that agnostic athiests exist, however, and I've explained how it works. If you can't understand it, you're obviously not /trying/ to understand it. You're too hooked up on your immediate idea that "it can't be real" or "it contradicts itself" without trying to understand what I'm saying. If you would please take a minute to de-narrow your mind and reread my explanations and visit my links, I would appreciate it. I don't feel the need to repeat myself.

>>49 Fuck you and fuck your brainwashing. Wikipedia is at the same level of excellence as Encyclopedia Britannica; it's just free. There was a study done that you can look up (because I kind of don't care beyond this point) that showed the articles were of the same quality as Britannica's. There is not some army of trolls waiting to vandalize Wikipedia articles for no reason at all. Moderators fact check for a reason. If you don't believe something, click the number next to it and check the source.

You can thoroughly believe something and accept the fact that there's no proof of your belief at the same time. There is agnostic theism, as well. You honestly believe there IS a God, and you will continue to believe so, but you accept that your beliefs aren't fact.

"Beliefs" =/= "Facts"
I can believe that this beef burrito is indeed a strawberry coolata, but that doesn't mean its true. Apply that to religion and you have agnostic atheism/agnostic theism.

And, >>53 this. I didn't feel like getting into a Wikipedia debate, but I share your feelings nonetheless, reap.

I'll just leave this here as a handy reference. And as the image implies, yes it is possible to be an agnostic atheist.

>>53 wikipedea can has and will be changed also how was i brainwashed show me the little experment that youve seen.
>>54 Im tring to understand it but to me it still contradicts it self it just doesnt make since im trying to understand it but i so far cant ill keep looking at it though im sorry if i sounded narrow minded i dont mean to offend you

>>57 Basically, you can BELIEVE something without KNOWING it, and you ACCEPT that you DON'T KNOW.

I don't know how I can put it any simpler :|

And, honestly, wikipedia is a fine resource. Several of my teachers reccomend it. A lot of well known scholars put information /into/ wikipedia. You can tell by the sources whether or not it is a good article or not. If you're misinformed from wikipedia, it's because you're a dumbfuck (to be blunt) who doesn't check sources; it has nothing to do with the site itself.

>>57 Your teacher: WIKIPEDIA IS THE DEVIL!!11!!1!!!1 EVERYTHING ON IT IS A LIE!111!!!!11!!!11!!!11!!1!!!1

Everyone of my teachers ive had has all ways told me that you shouldnt use wikipedea. It has editing so that anyone can change it and make something up that makes no since and I still say that agnostic atheism is a contradiction you cant have possibilty and disbelief together it couter acts each other
also what you just described was what an agnostic believes in the possiblity that there is a higher power.

>>61 No. An agnostic atheist does NOT believe there is a higher power. They refuse to believe there is, but they accept that, just because they believe it, that doesn't mean they're right. However, an agnostic does not believe nor disbelieve anything.

You're really having trouble understanding this. Did you not see my analogies? You can believe something without thinking it is fact. There are subtle differences between each type.

An agnostic does not believe nor disbelieve in any higher power. An agnostic atheist does not believe in a higher power, but they're willing to accept that their belief may end up not holding true. An atheist does not believe in a higher power and thorougly believes they are true. A gnostic atheist believes there is no higher power and that they know it for an absolute fact.

You might want to check Misuto's "Perceptions of Reality" thread on Main. Maybe it will help. Just because you believe something doesn't mean its true, and being an agnostic atheist means you accept this.

>>60 my teacher never said that she wanted us to actually go out here and find the sources our selves instead of being lazy and going to a place that could be wrong.

>>62 you keeping describing agnostics an agnostic believes in the possiblty of a higher power they dont know if there is or isnt and athiest is some one who doesnt believe in anything.

>>63 What? If you don't be a lazy ass and check the sources, you can see whether or not the article is true =o= It's more rare to find "wrong" particles than it is to find "right" ones, honestly. That's just a misconception that uninformed, biased people have about the site. Anyone can edit, but articles are moderated, and you are warned when there are citations that may not be right.

>>64 I'm not repeated myself. You either get it or you don't at this point. You seem to have a low level of comprehension about this. If anyone else wants to take a whack at explaining it to you, then good for them.

Just because you believe in something doesn't mean it's true. That's the stand of an agnostic atheist/agnostic theist. Like I said. I can believe this beef burrito is strawberry, but that doesn't mean it's true. By accepting the fact that, even though I think it's strawberry, it could in fact be beef, I am added that "agnostic" part in.

>>65 articles*

I dont have a low comprehension of it Im looking at it logicaly I look at both words and have and always know those words contradict each other. and its a lot deeper than that. also Im not lazy Ive always check my sources its other people who go out here and dont so theyre the reason why wikipedea hasa bad name with some people in the education system. Also how can you compare religion with food. If you believe in it hard enough your brain will change your sinses to make it true through your eyes mouth nose and eyes and hands.

>>67 I'm suddenly not allowed to compare religion to food..? Ah, I see you didn't even try to actually see WHAT the whole comparison was saying. Instead, you focused on the medium of the comparison.

I repeat: Widen your mind and look at it again.

>>68 Hey now, let's not get ahead of ourselves; he did just reveal to us a new ability, so he can't be completely. Be right back, I'm going to go eat some dog turds in the backyard. If I believe hard enough, they'll each taste like pieces of steak.

*stupid

>>68 I see things for what they are not for how people want me to see them. Also if you would reread my post i didnt say not to but how could you. I got what your saying but if your mind really wants it to be that it will force its self to change and believe it

>>69 No, I'm not denying that. That's true; if you force your mind to believe it enough, your sense will react that way. And the same thing happens with religion. If you thoroughly believe in something, you can even end up subconsciously forcing yourself into hallucinations.

That's besides the point, though. I just wish >>67 would /try/ to understand what I said :|

>>71 I don't even know what you're saying anymore.

Just, go read my posts. OPEN YOUR MIND. Instead of wondering why anyone would want to compare religion to food, push that aside and look at the CONTENT.

>>71 Also, Mayu/Ashley, please don't samefag.

Mayu/Ashley/Miku
.-.

>>72 It's not as simple as that. Going back to dog turds, I can't just believe it's steak; I see, feel, smell, and taste dog turd. To deny something of that level of certainty that convinces four (maybe even five if you hear your dog making it) of your senses of what something is would be a deeper problem rooted in your mind (delusions and all that). Sometimes the "power of hope" (for lack of a better wording) can get you to accomplish something that should technically be impossible for you, but no matter how hard I try, I don't see myself being able to eat dog turds like candy because I'm under some hallucination.

With religion, it's often different. Despite no physical evidence of some sort of god, people still believe in one. This is how they were raised, so from their first day on the planet, they are conditioned to think gawd is real and watching over you (probably not literally the first day, but something like that). That would be like me being fed dog turds as a child, being told dog turds were a rare delicacy, and acquiring a taste for dog turds that made me want to eat more of them. I'm not hallucinating; that's just how I was raised.

Maybe I'm just not trying hard enough, though. I'll Google it at some point and find a How-To guide on it, if one exists.

Thats a horrid idea>>77

>>77 No. Don't samefag. Instead, using an ounce of intelligence in your posts and show all sides of the arguements and explain which side is better and why.
>>78 This.

I never knew that she was using my comp

>>80 That's totally why you included Miku in your mixed name in >>77. It's also totally the reason why the typing style in your posts and Miku's post are almost identical.

Totally, bro.

Barabisama After you said something i looked and notced it was the samefag and are typing styles arent the same

>>83 Totally, bro.
On a less sarcastic note, yes, they are :V

Nonetheless, just don't do it again. Let's stop derailing this thread and let someone else get back on topic.

alright im not your bro

Atheism. Is that the correct word? Either way, I do not think that atheists are bad. I say this because I have friends that are gay. Most religions shun them for being so, and so they are atheists because the religious people are being hypocritical. It's hard to believe in a religion when the people are hypocrites. I think I have a long post on this somewhere. I'll copy-paste it in my next post here.

Now you can correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm telling you what I see from the gay people I know.

>>86 Actually, I only have two atheist gay friends. The rest are a mix of Jews and Muslims. I don't know any Christian gays outside of television, though :V

>>87 I've had friends of many different religions convert to atheism because they were rejected my radical religious people, and some of them went through hell that could have gotten them into serious situations. I'm just glad they're okay.

>>86 Since I said I'd copy-paste my post here, I will.

"Since religion seems to be a key concept here, let me put in a brief word about religion. Yes, the bible says being gay is wrong. To use that as an excuse, you would have to follow strictly by the bible, or else your point is highly hypocritical and therefor void. I can say honestly that most of the people that use that lame excuse aren't ever christian. The ones that are christian don't follow purely by the bible.

To use the "Adam and Eve" vs "Adam and Adam" excuse also means you'd have to follow strictly by the bible. The bible says hat yo should forgive, love, and not judge. The bible even says that you aren't the judge of who goes to heaven and hell, but God does. On top of that I don't even believe I've read a verse saying that being gay sends you to hell. I've looked it up many times. If I'm wrong, then someone tell me where the fuck it says this. Every passage I've read on the subject up until now has only said "it's wrong" or "don't do it".

The whole, "pray to god for forgiveness and he'll heal you" thing is also BS in my opinion. Yea, I'm christian and believe God will listen to out prayers, but the second part of that theory is it's own undoing. I've asked, "Why would God make them gay if it's wrong?" I was told, "It's a test." So tell me why he'd heal you if he's testing you? I don't understand ho he can be testing someone by making them gay, only to make them straight if they pray for forgiveness when he made them gay in the first place.

Since science is followed as readily as a religion by some, let me put in my opinion about science as well. You cannot say that it's wrong because they cannot have children. A study was done on overcrowding with lab rats. The scientist saw that the rats began to turn to homosexuality when there was overcrowding. I was not told much on the subject, so I looked it up.

Here is an article on his study:
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1200/is_v129/ai_4258429/

Here is a forum discussing the study:
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=109303951&page=1

Of course, people are not rats. That does not mean that what the rats were facing and what the human race faces is not eerily similar. What is this to say for us? Well, I am not trying to explain away homosexuality. I am simply saying that it isn't grounds for hating someone. It is beyond the person's control.

I, however, have a simply way of looking at it. As long as you are not hurting yourself or someone else, I don't give a fuck what you do. If you want to be a homeless man on the side of the world listening to conspiracy theories of aliens taking over by pigeons as you are mauled by zebras, be my guess. As long as your behavior isn't dangerous to you or those around you I don't care what you do or who you are. Another condition is if you don't attempt to change or force your opinions on me. I will give you the same respect."

With all that in mind be aware that common morals (rape, murder, stealing, cheating, etc.) apply.

>>87 If the internet counts, then you know a Buddhist guy :D

hello to all

Er, i'm atheist... just sayin'...

I'm atheist as well. Reading this debate has been interesting; many people seem to have one, close-minded opinion of what they believe in and what the people who don't believe the same do believe in. If someone is Christian, they think they know what atheists believe in, which is, in their opinion, absolutely nothing, which is ridiculous to them. If someone is atheist, they seem to think the beliefs of Christians (and other religions) are equally ridiculous.

Atheism, as someone already mentioned, doesn't mean the belief that nothing at all exists, it entails lack of belief in God. It also doesn't mean they believe nothing happened to cause the beauty of life, either.

But, Christianity isn't an unreasonable belief either; their beliefs are just as good as anyone else's. The theory of a God creating life on this planet is just as feasible as the scientific theories of what may have happened otherwise.

All I'm saying is that I think people should be more open-minded about each others' opinions on religion. Not all atheists have the same beliefs nor do all Christians, and there isn't one true religion.

I'm an atheist. I also don't care if people around me are religious or not. It's none of my business and I don't think less of them because they don't have my beliefs. Do I laugh when some Christians claim science has failed (over the internet of course)? Yes. Do I laugh when they reach out to God during a time of great stress and need? No.

>Mfw reading Mayu's out-of-this-world posts. Never knew someone could be that retarded.

im a agnostic but that meens to me that out 100% god existence is less then 3% and there is the same chance that god is the tooth fairy then rether the christen\moslim\jew\norse\greek god\s (only apinoin

>>93 I will not put my opinions out in the open to be scrutinized. I posted somewhere on a different thread yesterday about why I don't do that. Let me look.

Here it is, " I'm a biased person. Believe it or not, I rarely argue my exact beliefs as I have just done. Why? Because I know both sides of the argument would get pissed at me because it is nothing like either side. My arguments usually are against the beliefs of each side."

I didn't put the whole post in here because it'd be take out of context. Just that part is a little off because it's taken out of context. Just so you know, the beliefs I was talking about in tat post were on goverment.

Either way, my belief on religion is probably the only thing that doesn't oppose both sides of a debate, but I still will not say it because people get so radical about religion that a little difference between what you believe and what they believe (like me not being opposed to gay marriage) and they get just as offended as they would if you said everything they believe in is wrong.

>>96 im not retarded I just didnt understand what barabisama says when they say agnostic atheist it just sound contradictory to me ive looked at it and asked people they all say it sounds like a contradiction.

>>99 No. You are indeed retarded.
The concept was explained to you. Three times.
The people you asked must also be retarded.

>>100 Not retarded - she just lacks the comprehension skills and a mind wide, which are needed for this.

Mayu, I'm not saying this in a bad way. Some people just can't comprehend new concepts; you're one of those people.

>>101 Sooooo...kind of like being retarded?

Chrome and BarabeSama, the concept of agnostic atheism is explained horribly. I didn't even understand it. I just ignored it because I could care less, but since we are talking about it. I will get involved.

Agnostic atheists believe that God does not exist, but they do not claim that they believe this. This is because they do not know for certain whether or not God does exist because it cannot be proven. To them, if there is a God, he is unknowable or unable to be known.

The way I see it is like this. "If a tree falls in the woods, but nobody is around to here is, does it make a sound?" They would believe that it does not make a sound. They will not say that they believe that because it can't be proven. They would believe that if it did make a sound nobody would know, and it is impossible to know.

Double posting to apologize for misspelling BarabiSama.

"I didn't even understand it."

Like you're some kind of profound intellectual.
lulz

I thought it was explained pretty simply. They don't believe in god but they also know they could be wrong. In other words: They could care less if god exists or not. They are busy with other things.

>>103

"Agnostic atheism, also called atheistic agnosticism, is a philosophical position that encompasses both atheism and agnosticism. Agnostic atheists are atheistic because they do not hold a belief in the existence of any deity and agnostic because they claim that the existence of a deity is either unknowable in principle or currently unknown in fact. The agnostic atheist may be contrasted with the agnostic theist, who does believe that one or more deities exist but claims that the existence or nonexistence of such is unknown or cannot be known."

^ That right there is the definition.

"Agnostic atheists believe that God does not exist, but they do not claim that they believe this."

^ That right there is what you said.

What you said =/= the widely accepted definition.

Please shut up.

>>103 No. It's not "Agnostic atheists believe that God does not exist, but they do not claim that they believe this."

Correction: "Agnostic atheists believe that God does not exist, but they claim that nobody can know for a fact." They strictly believe that there is no God, but they also accept that there is no proof to anything, and therefore nobody's opinion can be fact.

Barabisama i know you didnt mean it in a bad way it was chromo and lt dodger i know your not that kind of person.
chromo its very rude to call someone that and I understand what barabisama is saying i just in my opion sounds like a contradiction.

>>110 Cry about it some more. I may start to give a fuck or two.

/iamtotallylyingnofuckswillbegiven

>>111 im not crying about it and can you stop calling me retarded when i was little i was made fun of for being a little slower than some students. and have some respect and act your age

>>113 Hi, apparently youre new to the internet so let me give you the intro tour. Everyone is a twelve year old boy who uses cuss words for everything.

>>114 This.

But some of us are actually 40 but you don't find that out until the final stage.

>>114 They're all twelve? I just thought that they were all boys, though the age would make sense.

>>113 If you cannot ignore the insult coming from the people with no lives on the internet, you should not be on the internet.

>>108 Correction.

"Agnostic atheists believe that God does not exist, but they do not claim that they believe this. This is because they do not know for certain whether or not God does exist because it cannot be proven. To them, if there is a God, he is unknowable or unable to be known." That was my definition.

"Agnostic atheism, also called atheistic agnosticism, is a philosophical position that encompasses both atheism and agnosticism. Agnostic atheists are atheistic because they do not hold a belief in the existence of any deity and agnostic because they claim that the existence of a deity is either unknowable in principle or currently unknown in fact. The agnostic atheist may be contrasted with the agnostic theist, who does believe that one or more deities exist but claims that the existence or nonexistence of such is unknown or cannot be known." That is the definition you stole off of wikipedia.

Do they not sound the same when you don't take the rest of my definition out? Make sure you read the whole post before telling me that I'm wrong.

>>103 Thank you for taking one sentence out of context to make me sound like a retard. Do I really need to spell it out for you? You say someone is an idiot because something is explained three times, but each time it was explained, it was not done well.

Mayu, you should have looked it up if you did not understand it. If you ask people there is a change they'll not know. You'll be surprised how ignorant most of the human race is.

>>114 I must be new but people should learn how to show respect and be able to argue or debate without resorting to name calling and cussing.

>>116 i can handle the insultinga but when were having a argument/ debate be reaspectful and reframe from name calling.

sorry i ment just debate not both arguemnt and debate

>>118 Sleepology left something out of his definition. They also have no lives.

I was once told a quote that really inspired me. "Never argue with stupid because they'll just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." That is what this is reminding me of.

>>116

- Your definition still doesn't match the ACTUAL definition.

- Therefore, you did not explain any better than anybody else.

- Chrome had it picture-perfect and crystal-clear. You, however, do not.

- I read every related post I can find before posting. Yet, somehow, YOU specifically, still manage to perceive me as an idiot.

- Allow me to reiterate: Shut up.

You are not ahead in this. You will never be at the rate you're going. You've tried to match your words to the widely accepted definition in an attempt to "explain it better," and failed.

And that's pretty much the end of that nonsense.

Rerail: I'm not atheist, but I am also not necessarily theist. I guess I'd place myself at some very strange in-between that involves a touch of agnosticism.

Mmmmmmkay. Let me clear the air here.

Mayu, when I say you are retarded, please take it with a grain of salt. This is the internet and calling you retarded is the least offensive thing I can do.

Leigha, shhhhh. Your hole is already pretty deep.

That being said, I can actually debate and am quite articulate.
However, when something is as retarded as this I don't feel it necessary to waste the breath.

Come up with a debatable topic and I would be more than happy to discuss things with you in a civil manner.

>>121 Before I let you successfully rerail his thread, I have one more thing to say. I only perceive people as an idiot if they try to take one sentence out of context and use it against me. None of your definitions made sense for me except Chrome's in >>105. If he had posted it before my post in >>103 (and I had read it) then I wouldn't have gotten involved. If he had and I found it when looking through the posts, then I would have admitted I was wrong and left. I will admit that I'm no good at explaining things, but most of you aren't much better.

Continuing with rerail: I'm not atheist, but I enjoy it more than other religions because, from what I've seen, they are the least hypocritical.

>>124 Tots, hun.
>>123 Allow me to reiterate: "Leigha, shhhh. Your hole is already pretty deep."

>>1 I find it weird that I don't have more atheist friends offline :| I mean, it seems like I should considering their personalities, but they've all got their own religions. I just rarely think about it because we don't talk about it, and when we do, we don't really judge each other.

>>125 Hey! You can't blame me for that last post. Chrome ninja'd me.

Im not an atheist im Jewish but chrome Im sorry for getting all mad about it i just dont like it when people belittle me.

I'm an Atheist been one for a little over two years. Once I realized there was no Santa and any other made up thing it sent me in a loop. I went from religion to religion trying to figure out which one was right, even worshiping Satan for a little while.

Now I just have a good laugh about how naive I was. Finally decided all religion is fake and that this universe is the beginning. That nothing had to start us or create us.

>>128
I know that feel.
It took me a while to break away from the beliefs that I was raised around. Even though I now know they were completely illogical.

IAM an atheist.

i thought athiests dont belive in jesus?.. Wow i was so off

>>134 *facepalm*

I would hgave never thought that this would go as far as 50 people.
Any way, if people need insintive(heaven) or punnishment(Hell) to be a better person, then they are not really Trying.
You dont need a super-natural being to hold down your morals and values if you just think about your actions and how they affect the world for better or worse. im not saying that atheist have to belive in anything im not saying or defineing what an atheist is in a long detaild text, the main thing i wanted was people to say, "Here." if they were atheist, realy i was expection some shit from people, but anoying pictures that half of are not completely correct are more than a bit anoying. I am not talking about Barabi's poctures.

>>136 For the record, that's not me =o=

alrighty then someone is useing your name.

>138 just kidding it IS me im on another computer XD i can't believe you fell for that!

>>141 This.

Why the hell isn't >>139 banned yet?

>>138 ^see picture^ If the post doesn't have my tripcode, it's not me.

>>143 It's not Link or Nunyah (unless they're on different computers). Someone else saw it and thought it would be fun. It's probably that Bryan fucker from last week with a new IP >> He pulled that shit, too.

I emailed Reltair about it this morning, but I haven't gotten a response back yet.

A faggot that says that their faggod hates fags.

/fagception

lulz

/BABADRAMA

im atheis and idc wat anyone says! i always hear "ooo ur goin to hell" and blah blah blah idc if i am goin to hell wat "god" is goin to send me ther. and who created god? i think its just a story that people told the kids to mak them behave

i just read the whole thing and wooow realy? i read the same thing soo many times it is sad

Personally when someone tells me that I am going to hell confuses me. From what I've been taught by my family and at church is that everyone was made differently yet we are all the same. People seem to get how we are the same and different mixed up. We are all the same in equality and the right to live. We are different in emotion, intelect, and of course beliefs. i don't believe in a god that created everything and was always there, but I do believe in the message the bible teaches. I still go to church nt to hear about how god is the creator but rather the lessons of spirituality and to be a good person. So yeah, I guess this makes me an atheit for not belieiving in a god but I still believe in the words of god. Plus for one thing if god truly is real fro the bible it says we are all made in his image, so how can i go to hell for being who I am which is so part of him, if he wnted us perfect we would of been made perfect. he or she is omnipotent and i doubt my belief is enough to go to hell over how people see him or her as this divine entity. Either you got one here.

Agnostic here. I would say that 150 responses to this thread is impressive, but to be expected. Hopefully the overwhelming rate of replies is due to self education on the subject.
As an Agnostic, I realize that there may be some omnipotent/omnipresent being responsible for all of existence, but I also acknowledge that it is impossible to prove/disprove the existence of said being. Some call this "riding the fence", I call it using empiricism, or my senses,to state that there is not a conclusion to the question "does God exist?". Because I have neither seen/felt/heard/touched/tasted 'God', I can firmly say that It cannot be proven, but I am unable to completely refute the existence of God because I cannot prove to a certainty that He/She/It/They do/does not exist. So, here I sit, on the fence. I refuse to take the word of Science (a philosophy, which is not exact to date, and whose hypothesis to questions asked multiply exponentially each day to the point where you have and infinite number of possible solutions to each problem.) that God does not exist. And I refuse to rely on 'Faith', or blind following as I call it (which i might add is far more fragile than the scientific method) to accept God.

Phew. Well, apologies, but this is a topic that I have dissected in length with myself over the course of my late teens/early twenties. I am sure this will raise a few eyebrows. *winkface*

All the way back up to >>11 D:

My friend, it seems you have backed yourself into a bit of a corner when you state that: "...if you believe that there is wrong in the world you have to believe that there is right too, and in order to define right from wrong you need laws to separate them, and in order for there to be laws there needs to be a law giver. So there needs to be a god to hold these objective moral values in place. "

The Code of Hammurabi was created in 1772 BC, and predates any Abrahamic Religion (Christianity, Judaism, Islam), by nearly fifteen hundred years. The Code of Hammurabi was an inscribed tablet that detailed a set of laws based on social norms (what is socially acceptable), alone. This includes laws against stealing, rape, murder, and adultery.(It also went into great detail about the wages that were to be paid to every worker, from ox driver to surgeon.) A "God" never needed to be present for these laws to be created/implemented.

As far as when you say: "If you think atheism threw [through], it doesn't hold any objective moral values so it would be impossible for an atheist to confront the problem of evil.", I find the implications of this statement to be completely nonsensical. I may not be an Atheist ( I am Agnostic, as explained in post >>150), but I still do not require "god" to show me right from wrong.

Actually, in my opinion one of the largest evils on this planet today is Abrahamic Religion. Abrahamic Religion is/has been one of the leading causes of death/conflict in the world. Included in the word death you might also add: rape, pillage, murder, sacrifice, genocide etc. Abrahamic Religion (again, Christianity, Judaism, Islam), is responsible for some of the largest acts of atrocity to date, including: The First and Second Crusades, The Spanish Inquisition, The Holocaust, the genocide committed in the mid-late 90's against the Serbians in former Yugoslavia-Herzigovina, The genocides in Burma, the conflict between Israel and Palestine (including ongoing conflicts in the Gaza Strip, and Beirut and the West Bank), the Global War on Terror etc. It is also responsible for the creation of terrorist groups such as The Taliban/Al Qaeda, Hezbollah, Hamas, the Tamil Tigers, Westboro Baptist Church (though they remain nonviolent, I give it a few years before they are doing more than "just" picketing at dead soldiers funerals.) I could draw the list on and on, but the list would span pages and take me hours to write.

Anyways, I just wanted to voice my opinion because I caught your (>>11) post when I expanded the thread. I apologize if it turned into a lecture, but I hope you will look at the evidence I have provided you. As far as distinguishing between Good and Bad/Good and Evil, I recommend a book to everybody out in the Dollars-verse reading this. I am too lazy to try to link so here is the info on the book, its quite old and you should be able to find it in any library/half-priced bookstore:

"Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance: An Inquiry into Values"
Author: Robert M. Pirsig

This book is for everybody from the casual philosopher, to the die hard science freak/Theist. I hope it will change somebody's life. If you do decide to read it, take your time and re-read passages you find interesting. You will get the most out of it this way.

>>152 I never noticed >>11 :O Thank you for pointing that out.

>>11 "If you think atheism threw [through], it doesn't hold any objective moral values so it would be impossible for an atheist to confront the problem of evil." <- This is bullshit. Even within religions, people have differing morals. Laws didn't come around simply because of religion, nor are they enforced simply because of religion. Each person has their individual morals - being an atheist has nothing to do with it.

I have seen many arguments for, and many arguments against the existence of God. I have disproven or invalidated all of them so far. I feel like there's probably a deity of some sort, probably because I'm raised and conditioned to, but there is no evidence for or against. For that matter, I'm pretty sure there never will be any evidence. For the universe to exist as it now does, there is no requirement for divine intervention at any time after the Big Bang. Before that, physics as we know it did not exist, and therefore no science based on our reality can ever be used to determine what happened before the moment after the Bang. Therefore, a universe with a God and a universe without a God are completely indistinguishable to human minds until and unless He changes things in a provable, miraculous way.

So... I guess put me down as agnostic? I definitely do not believe in any religion I've been exposed to, at least not completely. They're all so filled with politics and bigotry that it's practically impossible to see the fundamental teachings behind the atrocities committed.

>>154 Actually, scientists have conducted studies that make them believe the universe in itself acts like a quantum computer, performing multiple calculations all the time. It constantly processes and stores information, and if it processes information, then it must be thinking, and if it's thinking, it must be alive. There was an episode of "through the wormhole with Morgan Freeman" about it. You should check it out.

>>155 Think about what you're saying for a moment. "if it processes information, then it must be thinking, and if it's thinking, it must be alive." My cell phone is processing data right now.

Maybe the universe is a perpetual motion machine that God built. Maybe it's randomly occurring. There is no way for us to know, and likely no way we will ever know. It runs, but that says nothing about the origin.

my frame of mind is "Does it matter where we came from. we're here now so lets make the best of it" why take up so much time discovering where we came from, over 40,000,000,000 years ago it doesnt matter now. "But dont you want to live a good afterlife?" i took a seminary class once (religious studies) i personally dotn believe in it but they do. i heard the seminary teacher say and i qoute "As a mormon if the world hates you your a perfect mormon. if the world likes you theres something your doing wrong".....i dont even know how to address that without swearing 100 times. they put far too much pressure into people. my family may not be religious but we're good people we dont get in peoples way or speak out against peoples beliefs. but the mormons in our town treat us like garbage because we're not "One of them" they call me a rapist my parents are "Horrible at being parents" according to them and on top of that we're not accepted within any town events yet we're still nice. we just grin and bare it. however all that being said. there are a few good people in that giant collective group of asses. sometimes i feel atheistic and sometimes i feel agnostic but 90% of the time my opinion is "Does it really matter make your life a good one. who knows it could be your last"

Athiests are just as bad a Catholics or any other religion for that matter, in my opinion... Instead of pushing that there IS a god for sure, they push that there is NO god for sure.

>>158
No, only 'some' Atheist are as bad as 'some' Catholics. Understand where I'm going with this?

>>158 Any other religion huh? You don't know a lot about Buddhism. It's in our religion to not push our religion on others. Educate yourself.

>>156 Lol, that's just how I summarized it. They spent a good hour talking about it. I can't tell you everything that they said in one post. Just saying you should go check it out.

>>160
Actually, in my eyes Buddhism is more of a... "philosophy" and way of life than a religion. Buddhists don't worship any kind of deities, though many Buddhists practice the Hindu religion as well.

>>159
And yes, that is true. I apologize for making such a wide generalization.

I'm a Satanism. WE SHALL NEVER BE PRAISED!

>>163 "I'm a Satanism."

I lol'd.

DON'T MOCK ME, BARABISAMA!!!!

Satanists and atheists are people too. I'm not judging you.

I'm laughing at the grammar.

^

>>162 It is a philisophical religion, but a religion nonetheless.

You know something. I don't want to believe in God. I hate to believe in God. Because every single fucking time I want something, or work for something, and get my hopes up, something ruins it.

I'm not talking about 'bad timing' or 'noticing it' only a few times. It's every time I aim for something.

What happened? I work my ass off for months to get this girl I like to go out partying with me. We have a party every Saturday. Tomorrow would be the night she would come up. We planned it out. She'd meet me up at the gas station near me. Follow me out to my place, leave her car there, and we go out to the clubhouse.

Now, I worked at the place. Almost passed the fuck out due to heat, to make it a perfect night for tomorrow. For a whole fucking week.

Decide today that I'll tell her about my friend bringing more liqueur for a better variety, and would pay for the other drinks for her.

Now, I got my hopes up even more-so today, because it's the day before the party. Worked up until 10 minutes ago, got home, and come to find out she 'doesn't want to talk to people because she wrecked her car'.

What type of God sits atop of that high and mighty THROWN of power, just to make people suffer? It's not some fucking test. It's like we're a fucking amusement park, and he is the kid getting amused. I fucking hate that I have to be the one to get knocked down, when I'm the one working my ass off, doing nothing but helping clean, build, paint, shop, fix stuff, when the people out there that deserve the pain, are still doing what they love.

Why should I believe there is a God, now? I don't want to believe. I shouldn't have to, nor need to, because of this bullshit.

But Thiamor, nobody said gods were fair.

Besides, it could've just been Karma as well, but I'm sorry about what happened. Things happen for a reason, I guess.

Well we talked, and she has my number now, and plans on calling me if she feels up to it, and thus I'll go and get her.

I also promised to get her super drunk, which she enjoyed knowing.

>>171 Your right Its not like god will be able to do everything people want of him at once.

I'm an atheist. My big brother and my mother have dragged me to church all the time and it's been making me sick. I decided I'm going to live free and not care about this type of stuff.
Who cares how the universe was created?
I agree, we're not bad people. There are just some atheists that give us a bad name. I respect my family's religion and all, and they respect me too. So as long as it stays like that, then I'm fine.

Soo.. You guys just get bored at church?

Deal with it.

>>175 Or they just don't believe in a god. Deal with that.

atheist's arnt people who are bored with church, they are people who dont belive in god.

@158 not all atheist push to people and resent eople that god is for sure non existant, shit i have yet to see a single atheist blow up a church before just cause they dont belive in god. at any rate im suprissed my post got this far.

I prefer not to affiliate myself with a label so my thinking is not restricted. I believe that there probably is no powerful being out there who created the world. Even if there were, it wouldn't matter because I refuse to change my behavior to accommodate the existence of such a being. Besides, there is no reason for a rational mind like that of 'God' to care about the puny lives of humans. We don't need belief in anything.

Also my favorite post was 150. he knows were it's at, angnostic people are awesome not all but most who tend to be angnostic also tend to be mellow.
I dont like people being pissie about other people and their religion, less it's one that puts other peoples lives in harm Just because of something they are.
Also when I hear, "You'r going to hell" It seems as stupid as someone saying, "What if a blind man sees doing that?" Beacause when you dont belive in God, What must go through their mind that you belive in The Devil, or Hell, or punishment after death.
Anyway hear is my main topic on this whole post:
If we work hard, with The Dollar's, Community Service, Our Schools, Our Government, Our friends, And our Family, we dont need to belive in an afterlife to either fix out mistakes or to rest from life because the world would be a better place to live in, and you will feel good that you worked hard on something you kow is right.
Its something I try doing every day.

my Second favorite and maby a tie with first is one I missed while I was typeing NUMBER... Wait for the pause.... 179
He hit the nail strait on the head.

oh and >>157 did a good job at it.

>>179 It seems that you are an apatheist.

>>185 Only other mention of apatheism since I mentioned it in post >>40 ; u;

You win my worthless seal of approval

>>186 :D Good to know.

The reasons I'm an atheist?

1) The only "proof" there is a God is by personal convictions or "I just know He exists." There is no evidence of a god... then again there's no evidence there ISN't a god. But I'm willing to bet that there isn't.

2) Religion is the cause of genocide, wars, violence, terrorism, discrimination, and divides the world. People spew hate and mock other religions every day.

3) Christians say that those who believe in Jesus and God go to heaven. So where do we atheists go? To hell??? >_> I receive no clear answer to this question.

4) Religion promotes ignorance.

5) You can be a moral person without believing in a God.

>>189 Not all religion causes genocide. Seriously, how many wars have been started in the name of Buddhism? Buddhism is very much pacifistic.

If you have the opportunity to "start a relationship with god" but turn it down, then yes, hell.

Not all religion promotes ignorance.

>>190 You're right, I shouldn't generalize... being from a Buddhist family myself, I take it back. :]

I should say that religion SOMETIMES promotes ignorance, and SOME wars were caused in the name of religion.

>>190 So true, i dont believe in god but i dont put down other people if they do or dont..

I´m not really a religious person because someties times religion don´t give answers that I´m satisfaced with and the discimination that some religions have against those that don´t agree with them.Other thing that really annoy me about religiom is some of them think they are always right . Well but this is just my opinion

I'm an atheist because I seek reason.

It's that simple

>>191 Sweet! I'm Buddhist, lol.

But now you're right. Some of the worst events in history were caused in the name of a "god"

>>195 Let's not forget the crusades.... :)

>>195 ::fistpump::

I might be atheist, but if I were to choose a religion, I would go Buddhist since I like the message of peace, kindness to all, and reincarnation seems a lot more plausible than a heaven full of angels (Just my biased opinion!)

>>197 That's pretty much why I follow it, lol.

I am because dont belivie in god,and, I was forced to go in church so I stop my activities. this make me angry

I'm actually a hopeful Agnostic, cause I was born in a very religious family, and if they found out that I didn't think God was real, They's probably disown me for life. I'm hoping that God does exsist, and that he's not just an idol that people go to so that they have a thing to go to when they have problems.

I LOVE mystery~ I don't need proof that God is real or not. Praying helped me get through tough times and for that, I thank God. Also, we don't think you worship the Devil or are a bad person. That's judging and only God can truly judge someone.

i have manage to piss off both sides

i believe in evolution and that god controlled it

i know radical thinking isnt it

seriously though i do believe there is a god but think about this there is one entity controlling everything in the universe from the smallest to the largest and we are just one tiny little fraction of a percent of all that

he dont have time to deal with our problems

>>201 >Religious
>Posts on the atheist thread, which is looking for atheists.
My mind is full of fuck.
Oh, wait, that's yours.

>>201 lulz
Why is Jesus white?

>>204 I say we need some lovin' from the wonders of Black Jesus.

>>205 >>204 >>201 Ugh. Haven't I told you guys already!? God is a bisexual, fat, black woman with a harem of skinny, pimply white angels of both genders. Get it through your thick skulls already.

>>206 I know, but Jesus is black.
EXPERIENCE THE MIRACLES OF BLACK JESUS, YO!

>>22 i red this far and had enough. im agnostic i have no problem or quarrel with religious people its up to you to believe in whatever. however you dont need a got to have moral values you dont need a preacher to tell you whats right and whats wrong. I dont follow all the rules of god or anything like that. in fact i dont follow many rules at all. I go by honor i keep my honor. Im so obsessed with honor people find it annoying that being said it tells me whats wrong and whats right i follow that. I am a relatively good person too. As far as ive seen with religion comes war. comes judgement from other people and comes problems. If people didn't believe so strongly in religion wars wouldnt start. or at least not as often

I also think i should state my beliefs on religion. I dont really believe in anything so i guess im atheist. Its not due to any problems as a child though i did have problems running into a town of mormons who treated me like shit. Its cuz my mind thinks "Why worry about what comes afterward. why worry how we got here. We're here now lets make the best of it. be all we can be for better or worse....hopefully better" its a simple belief and it works lol

>>210 i was raised mormon and ya i got the heck outta there as soon as i could they are the most judgemental people ive ever seen i still believe there is a god but i dont believe i have to follow special rules just be a good person for the sake of bettering this world

Sup,nice to see a fellow atheist.

So You all know, not speaking for all, Atheists arn't made just cause they got screwed over or their feeling's hurt from smoe one at church.

>>208 Oh hey there, dumbfuck.

>>213 This.

Not everyone is Atheist because they got butthurt or rejected or that shit. Everybody has their own reasons.

>>214
Though a lot happen to be BECAUSE of those reasons. Stereotypical thoughts have some bits of truth involved.

The funny thing is that this could be put the other way around.

I bet there are a LOT of religious people whose feelings have been hurt by those are atheist.

By that, I mean every Stereotype is born from something, someone, or somewhere.

For example, when purchasing Chainsaw, it now comes with a warning about not trying to stop the blades with your "genitals". Because obviously someone did it, or else they wouldn't have the need to say it.

Same thing with stereotypes. They all have a bit of an origin of truth wedged into the biased, idiotically worded history.

>>217 Doesn't matter if it was or is true for some people. It's not right to assume that most people of that group follow that stereotype.

>>218
Where did I say it was right?

so from what i see here, this thread gives a basis idea of what the war between atheists and theists are. we all have our own opinions the only way to be truly right. would be to die and find out.
DISCLAIMER: i am not suggesting that someone kills themselves to find out the truth. im simply saying death is the only way to truly know if religion is right or wrong.
but seeing as nobody can tell us that for sure i dont see it happening

i'm an atheist with many christian friends and we constantly debate religion, we respect each other's choice even if we think the other is wrong. others i know instead choose violence and harassment to force me to convert

I guess I will mess with this one last time.
I belive that people shouldn't judge each other because of religion or belifes or anything that seperates us, because what makes us diffent is what defines us, this experament was ment to pull out the prejudice people and show that there are actuly some, and to give other people of no religion faith that they are not alone. I am sorry if feelings were hurt, or arguments were held, but this is the internet and it happens.
I hope that this has led to any prgress with people comeing together and knowing not to be apart for dumb reasons.

This Experament was a success and thank you for all who participated.

It doesn't matter what others people thinks about u
From my point of view a devi lwhorshipper (or not really) so what?
I can still make friends also u can called the young atheist.

I'm an atheist, and I've been told that I should be reincarnated as a tree and chopped down to make bibles -.-

truthfully, this thread is pointless. it shouldn't matter what religion (or lack there of) someone here is. in case we all forgot some lines from the ABOUT tab at the top, "Age, ethnicity, economic status, ability; none of that matters here. Everyone is equal."

>>225
Why exactly is it pointless, though? Since if people reply, stating their opinion, it has a point.

>>225 Being equal doesn't mean being the same. Everyone has a right to their own individuality, and they have every right to share their opinions here.

Why do we really even have this thread. We have already got the religion thread in random, isnt this just a splinter of that?

>>228 That thread is for discussing religion in general, and this thread is for discussing just atheism. Religion is a big topic, so it's not a big deal if it's split up.

BarabiSama is a bitch

>>230

Lol I admire you GodHatesFags.

<< Atheist. Or Nihilist. I tend to sway between the two. I just don't care about religion. It's a waste of my Sunday morning.

I am 100% atheist. I have to many reasons why to even type it out. -_-

The amount of mislabeling and wrong use of terminology in this thread is terrifying, even from fellow atheists (whom I bag on more, 'specially when they try to argue, but they do it shitty).

>>234 And would you like to point out those errors, or are you going to sit back and just comment on it like they would be too difficult for anyone else to understand?

>>234
You're just as bad as everyone else on here that you're talking about.

>>234
Oh if that's the case. Please, spare us oh benevolent and omniscience, CommonEra. (I can't be any more sarcastic)

im not one but my friend is :/

I'm an agnostic atheist :}

Not exactly an atheist, but I don't think you're bad people at all.
You just have different views, same as anyone else.

I identify more as an agnostic. Or if you want to be more precise, an apathetic agnostic. I don't know and I don't care.

I think one of the reasons atheists are maligned is that (in my opinion) there is not much reason to strongly disbelieve in something. Of course if you are religious you must believe in your deity/ies. But if you're not... what does it matter if they exist or not? If there is no god, and you believe there is no god, you do not get extra credit. You die just the same as everyone else. To a strongly religious person, the only reason to be atheist is to discredit them.

Your religious beliefs (barring any sort of violent extremism, which exists in all religions as well as non-religion) do not make you a good or bad person.

I am a proud atheist. People who argue that atheism is stupid because "the beauty of the world could not have come from nothing" clearly have not put much thought into their argument. Beauty is nothing. It is a human interperatation based on perception.

I simple don't believe in a higher power. Like exponents. That was a horrible joke. But really, if you do something, don't do it because some voice or ancient book tells you to, do it because you want to make the world better.

>>244
I lol-ed.



A Christian and an Atheist walked into a bar. They each bought a drink and talked and had all about a lovely time because the two weren't self-righteous assholes.

To each, his own".

I am neither an atheist or nor do I follow a religion because I choose to keep an open mind about these things. I feel that a lot of people stereo type atheists, since I hear a lot of people saying how atheists go on and on about how religions are shit.

>>246 Otherwise known as being an agnostic.

Personally I'm an agnostic(meaning I don't take a side because there is no proof that there is or isn't a god), but i guess that's counted as an atheist.

I'm not really atheist, but really a jumble of religions mixed together. One thing is almost no religion worships the devil, even satanism doesn't. Satanism mainly states you are your own god, not the devil.

>>246 >>248 Believe it or not, agnostics do follow a principle. It's called Russell's teapot. Russell discussed the fact that if he were to claim that at this very moment there is a teapot orbiting the sun somewhere between the orbits of Earth and Mars, there is no reason by which he should expect others to believe him. In the same way there is no way to disprove that Russell's teapot exists, being that the only possibility to do so would be to either have omniscient sight of the entire region in which he claimed it was, or you would have to locate said teapot.

Agnostics do not claim that the teapot (superior being) does or does not exist, but are instead waiting for it to be observed.

>>249 I believe that's alltheism. Many people believe that a person who follows this view typically does so out of fear of choosing "the wrong God" while in reality many rationalize that by comparing the ideals of different religions that many address the same things, promote the same principles, and have deep similarities in deities.

>>250 Isn't that what i said, except without the long Russell's teapot principle explanation? If not, that's what I meant. Well, I've never heard of the orbiting teapot but the last sentence basically sums it all up(replacing teapot with superior being).

I'm atheist. I think that being an atheist is to get over the fear of not knowing. I don't know how the universe came to be - but that is Ok. I believe trying to find answers make us better people, and that what is really impotent is not the knowledge itself - Its the learning.

It's like in this song.
http://drgaellon.insanejournal.com/tag/lyrics

(I have an audio version of this song if anyone is interested. )

Well it's definitely over 10...(adding one more now: Moi~)

>>247 yeah but I always forget the word haha

another athiest right here <--

Im surprised this is still goin on

I don`t know if I`m an Atheist I never believed in the existence of God from my perspective it was "idealistic nonsense",however it`s always good to have something to have Faith in

So this thing is still going eh. Religous disputes <---just another way to waste time. In my opinion most religons have caused more problems than help get rid of them. Which is why I really couldn't give a rats ass about what made what or if it's actually there. Im more concerned with the development of humanity than about getting into heaven or some other sort of "land of peace", but thats just me.

>>260 That's the goal of the Bahá'í faith.

"The central theme of Bahá'u'lláh's message is that humanity is one single race and that the day has come for its unification in one global society."

You guys know these kind os discussions won't lead to anything and that you won't come to an agreement or get a conclusion. With this you are just wasting your time and Leigha itseems you share some my opinions. Barabisama eventhough I didn't agree with your opinions I still accepted them. But you lost the respect for other people for example Mayu and you became a
bitch. Finding some people that share your opinions doesn't justify your lack of respect that you claimed to have on the beginning of this thread. I'm not trying to pick a fight or anything but still it's just not ok

>>262 It was the beginning of the thread. No one cares anymore and in the recent past we have been having some pleasant conversation. Join the rest of us in the world of today or get lost. No matter what your belief, your time isn't worth wasting on old arguments.

Sigh.

First off, everyone stop being asses to each other. It's annoying. And after a bit off research, a lot of the terminology was wrong when it comes to Atheism vs. Agnosticism, but it doesn't really matter. We think and believe what we choose, it's not up to anyone else, and no one should judge anybody.

>>262 And these types of discussions have a point- they allow a group of people, and a few others, to come to one conversation to talk about something. That's what we call a conversation.

hmm, I wouldn't call myself atheist but I just don't like organized religion...

>>265 non-religious. Yup I'm one 'dem atheists. Guess who else was an atheist? Stalin (killed millions). Guess who wasn't. Hitler (killed millions). I never killed anybody and I detest violence. I know plenty of theists can say the same. Look im an atheist because that's what satisfies my reason (or rather theism fails to satisfy my reason). Point is it's not about being good or bad. It's not a cartoon people, it's life. Oh and if anybody out there thinks atheists are devil worshippers... HERP TO THE DERP!

>>266
Atheist =/= Non-Religious

Being atheist just means that you don't believe in God. It does NOT mean that you don't follow a system of beliefs.

Not liking organized religion doesn't make you an atheist. However, positively believing that God doesn't exist (despite any other beliefs you may have) does make you one.

>>268 yeah so... was that a response to me cuz I know that. I answered a question then moved on to my own thing. I know the difference I'm pretty familiar with the subject. However not believing in god(s) is what makes one an atheist. This nonbelief can be: implict (havent developed or been introduced to belief in god(s)), explicit (knowingly does not believe in god(s)). Also one does not have to say "god does not exist" to be an atheist. Atheism is lack of belief in gods not a positive belief gods don't exist (some people call this "strong" atheism). And don't even get me started on agnosticism or deism.

Yea i am...

Every time.
Thinking I should start to just link back to other posts when this discussion comes up.

>>269 "Atheism is lack of belief in gods not a positive belief gods don't exist." Part wrong, part right.

Slight doubt =/= Atheism.
Slight doubt === Agnosticism.

To be an atheist, you have to believe that God does NOT exist. Hence the "A". If you were a Theist, you'd believe in God. If you're an Atheist, you don't believe in God. You don't have to believe that everyone else should think like you or that what you believe is obviously a fact, however, you have to positively believe that God does not exist.

Believing in God = Theism
Not Believing in God = Atheism

Agnostics don't believe or disbelieve in X thing. This also includes people who are unsure. If they don't have a positive belief for any side of X thing, then they're agnostic.

A Gnostic believes in X thing for a fact. If they believe that there is no way to doubt their belief for X thing, they're gnostic.

In this case, the X topic is God/Theism. So it's basically...

An Atheist positively does not believe in God. Agnostic Atheism is when you don't believe in God but don't think your opinion is a fact. Gnostic Atheism is when you don't believe in God and know that your belief is fact and that, clearly, everyone who believes otherwise is wrong.

A Theist believes in God. An Agnostic Theist believes God exists but doesn't believe that their opinion is fact. A Gnostic Theist is when you believe in God and know that your belief is fact and that, clearly, everyone who believes otherwise is wrong.

>>56 for reference if you still don't get it.

I'm an atheist because I don't believe in God at all. However, I also don't know for a fact that I'm right. I respect the opinions of others and accept that the only way to know what the truth (for a fact) is is to die. However, that doesn't change that I positively don't believe in God an that I'm not unsure about that belief. That makes me an Agnostic Atheist.

I think we're on the same page, but I think you're not understanding that you can't doubt yourself. Accepting that your belief isn't a fact isn't doubting that belief. However, if you do doubt yourself and your beliefs, then you would be considered agnostic.

It's an odd thing to explain since "believing" is so... well, subjective. It's hard to tell whether or not we're talking about the same thing.

More things to keep in mind:

When you're positive about something, that's your personal idea. This sort of rolls back to the Perceptions of Reality thread in that, just because you're positive of it, doesn't mean that anyone else is, and it doesn't mean that it's a fact.

I could be absolutely sure that I didn't leave the remote on the lower counter, but if I come home and find that it has been chewed up by the dogs, that means I was wrong and did in fact forget to move it to a higher area. Even if it turn out that I was wrong, it doesn't change that I was positive before that I had put not left it there.

A fact is something that is eternally true, was put in place by nature, and is true for every person on the planet. It cannot be changed by anything. Facts don't truly exist, in my opinion, because there is always an exception to them.

An opinion is something that can change at any moment, is limited to the individual, and does not affect anyone else. Beliefs are opinions. Even if you believe that your belief is a fact, it's still an opinion until you reach the deciding point that proves whether or not it turned into a fact.

A gnostic believes that their opinion is a fact; an agnostic does not believe that their opinion is a fact.

Well, it seems like I'm just rattling on how, so I'll shut up in case anyone has a response to this.

Yeah exactly! Not believing in god = atheism. That doesn't have to be strong atheism AKA positive atheism. Also agnosticism is the position that one can either: not know the qualities of gods, cannot know if god exists. If you have doubts that's all well and good but you either positively believe in god(s) (theism) or you don't (atheism). Belief =/= certainty or knowledge. Personally I am a "Teapot" atheist (just a title). That's because I understand one cannot prove a negative of something that is unknown. Ex: prove fairies don't exist in a hidden dimension inside your toenail. Something strong atheists and some theists dont seem to get. I have no reason to believe in god, enough said.

Ok that last post was for one of your earlier posts. I will continue this tomorrow. See you then.

I am an athiest.
I have my reasons, but I won't bother with them - just letting you know I have them :P

I just want to give Barabi a well-fucking-done sticker for that. That was great.

Saint, there are two kind of atheists:
1) The people that have their reasons
2) The people that follow the crew.

If you are n. #2, I am sorry, I've met a lot of those, and none has been a good experience.

If you are n. #1 however, you shouldn't worry too much. Do your thing and let others do theirs :)

^ over duplicate

Don't comment in the other thread, guys.

>>272 & >>273 Ok I think we might have actually had been more on the same page. What you said in your earlier posts seemed very different. It was phrased in a way that gave me a totally different impression of your position. I was taking issue with the atheists who basically invite the question "where's your proof god doesn't exist?" (arguing from ignorance) I'm sure plenty of us are familiar with this. So was this a misunderstanding then? Is there anything else you want to clear up or discuss?

>>280 Nah, it's a pretty stupid discussion. Either way, I think we're on the same page, sort of/kind of/not really.

Now we're just getting into opinions. "Where's your proof God doesn't exist?" Is the same as the question, "Where's our proof God does exist?" It's a pointless question because beliefs don't always need to be explained. You feel the way you feel. If someone doesn't like it, then they can go &*%^ themselves.

Although, this all comes back to me thinking science is complete bullshit and should never be used to explain feels.

I think we're getting off the topic of atheism, though :l

(Just ignore this bump.)

ME!!!

Wow, an atheist that calls'em self Saint...

ME!!!

it makes me very sad that people think atheist worship the devil. sad that the atheists have to deal with such ignorance, and sad that people are actually ignorant enough to believe that.

but then again, it's really hard for me to feel sorry for this particular group. actually, it's a similar reason to why i have trouble feeling sorry for god fearing folks. while i'm sure most of them are decent people who i'd have no problem getting along with, the one's i see the most of are loud, annoying, opinionated dickweasels who insist they are right and that anyone who thinks another way must be wrong. can't they just say "whatever dude, that's cool. let us celebrate our differences and be friends!" other than just calling each other names and arguing about something that isn't even provable? and it isn't, so don't try and say it is. people much smarter than you have thought about it for ages, it's presumptuous to believe differently.

but yeah, because of people like that, some of which i've spotted in this very thread, i can't make friends with little andy atheist or darling katie christian without thinking "oh damn, they're going to tell my about their belieeeeefs...". and it's all because of the dickweasels on either side. it's bad and you all should feel bad!

oh, and am i an atheist? no, probably not. i wouldn't exactly say i'm anything else either. oh, and i'm not agnostic. cause i'm not 14. (and it's ok to make fun of agnostics cause they are silly. go ahead. it's fun!) but yeah. i'm sure i'm something. i think i'll post back when i find out.

boy, i hope someone actually bothers to read this. :|

I'm a Christian, but I'm cool with atheists if they're cool with me. As long as they aren't "Antitheists", as I call them, people who make fun of Christians for no reason.
So I'm willing to help show the world that you're not bad people because you're atheist. You have a right to have your beliefs accepted, just like anyone else.

>>287 Thank you for being a reasonable human being. :D

>>287 No offense, but there are plenty of reasons to make fun of Christians. I mean, you know, considering all of the wars, scams, and pedophilific incidences that are traced back to various sects of Christianity.

But, hey. That's a debate for another time ;O

I don't like the religion, but I'm okay with Christians as long as they're not over-the-top about it. I don't force my religion on you? You don't force your religion on me? Then we can be fine friends. I just can't stand people who try to force you to believe the way they do.

I'm one of the 10 Atheists I know of. No reason really religion is just boring

>>290 That's quite possibly the worst reason I've ever heard.

>>290 Also, so you're aware, Athiesm is a religion as well.

>>292 Except that it's really not.

>>293 "The theory or belief that God does not exist."

And what are all deistic religions? Theories or beliefs that a god does exist.

So, Atheism is just a religion that doesn't believe in a deity. Not every religion needs to have a god, and Atheism is one of the few that doesn't believe in one.

The score?
Atheism is, in fact, a religion.
>>293 is just plain wrong.

>>294

Not every belief has to constitute a religion. If I believe in the Tooth Fairy it doesn't make it a religion. Similarly, my disbelief of something is not a religion either.

Atheism does not have a dogma, no rites, offers no moral code or comprehensive view of the world.

Religion does not constitute simply of belief but of a whole system formed around it, a philosophy. Atheism has none of that. The only thing atheists have in common is one thing, the definition of atheism itself, the fact that they do not believe in the existence of a god/believe in the nonexistence of a god.

You can have wider and narrower definitions for what religion is, but it's have to include any and all kinds of belief in order to include atheism as well.

And yeah since theism and religion is not the same thing being an atheist and part of a non-theistic religion at the same time works just fine.

>>295

Anything can be made to be a religion, denying a set of beliefs as a religion simply because they don't follow a precise core structure is ignorant.

See:
Atheism
Agnosticism
Scientology

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/religion

As you can see, each of these fits under at least one of the common definitions of religion. These are multiple cases that are, by our very definition of the word, religions. If you want to argue the definition of "religion," take it up with Webster.

I don't make up my own definitions or my own obscurities when I make a point. I use the terms agreed upon by the general populace of, oh, I dunno, 7 billion people. If you take issue with my definitions, have fun arguing them with the rest of the world.

And so I bid you ado, good sir.

lolbrokenhtml

The italics ends at "at least one."

>>296 Oh great dictionaries. Shall I bring out Oxford? What about the Encyclopedia Britannica?

I'm guessing you fit atheism into the forth definition Merriam Webster gives: : "a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith."

Alright. I believe in the Big Bang Theory. A theory that tries to explain something about the universe, similarly to the belief in god. It's not proven, all I have is my belief. Many people share this belief, some rather ardently. Is it a non-theistic religion? If not, why?

I'm sorry, but I just can't see how any belief one or a group holds, positive or negative, can constitute a religion on its own.

Under the definitions Webster gives a few examples, among them "Hockey is a religion in Canada" and "Politics are a religion to him". These fit into the forth definition. They are hardly literal.

>>298 Literal or not, you're arguing solely on an opinion now. Webster agrees with me, and the quip I am able to view on a Britannica definition is shockingly vague and doesn't really draw a line between our two sides. Oxford gives the strongest opposition against my case but then proceeds to use the example "ideas about the relationship between science and religion." Which sounds a hell of a lot like "commitment or devotion to religious faith or observance" found in the Webster definition, and does not lay claim that a religion must have a common, active practice.

So, it looks to me like I have 2/3 definitions on my side and the third is just too vague to tell without getting a trial account on some stupid website. And I'm too lazy to find another website.

If you'd like to keep arguing, then go to the people that write the definitions and rally a petition or something. But for the moment, you only have your opinion - Not widely accepted definitions to be reviewed as factual until physically proven otherwise.

So until you can come back with resources more reputable than those already used, and that oppose what I have said without room to be false, we are finished here.

>>295 Religion is a belief in relation to a deity. The belief of Atheism in this regard is that there is no deity, which means it is a religion. Since you don't worship the tooth fairy as a deity, your beliefs about it are inconsequential. However, if you did worship the tooth fairy as a diety, then yes, it would be a religion.

>>300 "Since you don't worship the tooth fairy as a deity, your beliefs about it are inconsequential."

Keywords. I don't worship the absence of god either.

>>299

We're both arguing solely on an opinion. Mine is that atheism does not fit the definition, yours is that is does. So I'm not disagreeing with the dictionary, I'm disagreeing with you.

You could even say that my ardent and devoted belief and commitment to the fact that atheism is not a religion is a religion itself!

Ok ok, you're right though, this doesn't have many places to go anymore. So that's that.

Goodness, if I had a nickel for every person that's in this form of denial that atheism is apparently "a religion", since believing in nothing apparently equates to believing in something (hint: it doesn't). Let's approach this mathematically. In Christianity, you believe in one (1) god. Atheism involves rejecting the idea of god. Thus, the number of gods an atheist believes in would be 1-1=0. However, some people, for some reason, make the assumption that it even believing in nothing means you believe in something. Does 1=0 look like a possible answer for anything mathematical? No it fucking doesn't. And science involves changing things up when new theories come in and are PROVEN to happen, something that religion tends to not do. We're not very good with firmly believing in how the world works, since we're always learning new things about it ;)

I don't usually post in atheism/religion threads since they never go anywhere and the stupidity burns my brain faster than I can read it, but there you go.

I'm religious. But that doesn't mean I despise atheists. Everyone is entitle to their opinion.

>>305 You're basing this off of the assumption that things may only be considered a religion if they have a god?

Click this here link and be amazed. Atheism is classified as a religion. As are a few others with out a god. It's almost like the people that compiled this list did it using philosophical thought, not math! Huh, what a thought!

But really though, religion in of itself comes from an irrational base. Being an irrational creation of the human mind, I do not think that it can be explained rationally through simple numerical values. But if you really think you can explain religion using math, go collect your Nobel Peace Prize!

Atheism as a religion... The reasoning that it's not a religion (according to those of you here) is that the definition of atheism is, "lack of a belief in God," correct? You DO understand that it can also be reworded as, "a belief in no God," correct?

Therefore, it's still a belief. Atheism itself isn't quite a religion, though. Atheism is the opposing category of theism. Theism is not a religion. However, it is what is used to categorize theistic religions. Atheism is used to categorize atheistic religions, which there are, in fact, several of.

Atheism itself isn't a religion, but it can be used to define atheistic religions.

>>305 "The stupidity hurts my brain faster than I can read it". Tries to explain all religion by saying 1=/=0. Lulzwut?

>>303 The point wasn't worship. It was belief system in relation to a perceived deity.

>>308 Atheism is a religion. Atheistic is categoristic, such as in the case of atheistic Buddhism.

>>309 Then that means Theism is a religion all by itself, as well. If you can agree with that, then your point is fine. If not, however, that means that you're contradicting your own logic.

>>307 Oh epicureanism is a religion then. I live and learn.

Christianity is a religion. Catholicism is a branch of that religion. By saying that Atheism is a religion, you're saying that Theism is a religion. Christianity is theistic. If theism is a religion, then Christianity isn't its own religion. Rather, Christianity would be a branch of the "religion" called Theism. Christianity IS a type of theistic belief, but the theistic belief itself is not a religion. The religion is what encompasses all of the different aspects of the belief system - not just a single belief itself.

RELIGION =/= BELIEF
RELIGION = BELIEF SYSTEM

Christianity is a religion because there is an organized process revolving around it. There is a backstory, explanation, worship, et cetera.

It's true that atheistic can be used to describe different versions of a religion, just as theistic can be used, but atheism itself isn't a subcategory. Atheism is the entire category for all belief systems revolving around the lack of a God. Atheism, in itself, is not a religion.

The reason "atheistic Buddhism" and "theistic Buddhism" is often specifically stated is because there are different "sects" (if you will) of Buddhism. It's often said that it was never clearly stated whether or not Buddhism is theistic or atheistic, so people who believe different things need to specifically refer to the type of belief/version that they're referring to.

However, you wouldn't say Theistic Christianity, for it's clear that Christianity is theistic. The same goes for the more blunt atheistic religions.

>>310 I actually see "Theism" sort of like Agnosticism, except that there's a certainty that a god exists. I would actually just classify theistic religions as "Theistic", with Theism, Christianity, and Islam all being separate.

>>313 Theism and Agnosticism are completely different.

Theism is the positive belief in God.

Agnosticism is not believing in God but not disbelieving in God (no preference either way).

I don't see how you can consider Theism and Agnosticism similar yet Atheism completely different.

>>314 I'd always though Agnosticism to be the uncertainty of whether or not there was a god. Theism being the certainty that there is a god, but that's about it.

>>315 I guess your definition is better for agnosticism. But on that same note, atheism is just being certain that there is no God.

>>316 After thinking about it... You could call Theism a religion... I mean, most mono-theistic religions seem to follow a similar pattern.

>>317 Theism is not a belief system - it's just one belief that many religions are based off of. It's not a religion if it doesn't have its own system of beliefs.

With what you're saying, you're implying that any single belief is a religion. Therefore, if I say, "I believe rootbeer tastes amazing," it means that I have created a religion.

It doesn't work that way :l

>>319 Only if it's in relation to a deity. If you said "rootbeer is a god", then (as flawed as it may be), I'd call it a religous belief.

Well i cant say that i believe in god or the devil but i can say that there is somthing keeping me believing

>>320 "Only if it's in relation to a deity." By saying that, you're implying that every atheistic religion is not, in fact, a religion. You're implying that Atheistic Buddhism isn't a religion because it's unrelated to the idea of God.

Still, what you said isn't a religion. Saying, "rootbeer is a God," means nothing. There is no system around it. A religion is NOT a single belief, and that's not an arguable point. All reasonable definitions of religion refer to it as a SET of beliefs. A single belief held by a single person is not a religion, and a single belief held by many people is not a religion. A single belief that inspired religions is not a religion itself.

Various trusted definitions of religion, none of which imply a single belief without process can be a religion:

"a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs."

"a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects"

"a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices"

"Religion is a collection of belief systems, cultural systems, and worldviews that relate humanity to spirituality and, sometimes, to moral values."

It's really not an arguable point - a single belief is not a religion.

>>322 I think you're misunderstanding me. When I say "in relation to a deity", Atheism would be classified as a religion because their beliefs in relation to a deity is that there isn't one.

Also, if you view something as a god, that's not going to be your only belief. Once you have perceived something to be a deity, other beliefs are going to fall into place as well, such as what your god wants, what it dislikes, etc. It's natural.

All of the logic here is just too flawed.

The beliefs that fall into place ARE REFERED TO AS OTHER THINGS.

Christianity is an example of the beliefs that fall into place.

However, THEISM and ATHEISM are UNRELATED to the beliefs that fall into place. Theism just means, "the belief in God." Atheism JUST means, "the belief in no God." Any other beliefs that follow are categorized as other things.

Can someone else take a whack at explaining this? I don't know how else it can be worded to make it plain and clear.

Ew. I caps'd too much.

But either way, the beliefs that fall into place don't make Theism and Atheism religions. If they did, then theism and atheism would have hundreds of different meanings. Instead, when a theistic religions is made, it's just that - a theistic religion. The religion itself isn't theism itself. When an atheistic religion is made, it's just that - an atheistic religion. The religion itself isn't atheism itself.

>>326 Atheism doesn't just believe in no god, though. There are other beliefs that go with it.

>>327 Atheism only means, "the belief in no God." Anything that is derived off of that idea has its own name. There are many atheistic religions (Google them yourself - I'm lazy) which were derived off of that concept. However, Atheism itself means nothing else.

>>328 I'll take your word for it then

In my opinion, religion was created for 2 basic reasons;

1. To gather a large following
2. To give people with weak character something to believe in

There are exceptions to both cases, and religion doesn't mean you are a weak person. I just think a long time ago, when people didn't have science, they needed to find an answer so they made stuff up. Priests and the like had lots of influence over people's opinions and could use that to there advantage. Of course, a lot of people do believe in god and I don't think it's a bad thing, I just believe religion is a load of bull. But that's my opinion.

>>323 Really? ._. You should get off this thread.

>>330 I read a book on Religions and Myths actually. It's called Illogical Phenomenon Rationalising (IPR) and Scientific Phenomenon Rationalising (SPR). At least that is what the book said. Both are ways for coping with the outside world, for instance, we look at the sun and say "That is a normal sized yellow star that provides heat for our plannet" Whilst before science we would say, "That is a larger obviously more powerful existance in the sky, perhaps it will help us" Which would eventually evolve into primal god worshiping (Also because they would associate the sun with daytime, light and safety).

To write religion off as purely created for profit and exploitation is stupid however. Sure humans have manipulated many religions in the world to that status but almost none of them began as a hateful, moneyguzzling organisation. If you look at the base teachings of christianity you see how all in all it sends out a good message (Apart from the bits about stoning) and how it was used to keep people in line and on the right path without the need for a heavy education.

Also despite me being agnostic, when I'm looking at the depth of the universe, I find it impossible to imagine there isnt a greater force organising it. As somebody who I cant remember said "You can dump a bowl of cereal upside down on the floor 80,000 times but it still won't make a smiley face."

Some psychologists think religion was invented as a way to ensure people acted morally and didn't commit crimes. When people developed language we also developed gossip. If you did something wrong, people would talk about it and in ancient times you could have been cast out from a tribe or killed depending on the severity. As a God/Goddess can knows everything, it was impossible to hide a crime from him/her. Making them all powerful was a way to show you would be punished for breaking it's rules and therefore crimes weren't committed. Considering tribal humans probably wouldn't have known to question these things it would have likely made a society without any crime.

I'm not exactly an atheist, but I understand where you're coming from. I am a man of science so I do believe in god but in scientific terms. I get made fun of a lot 'cause of this. People see me studying Alchemy and a lot of other things and suddenly jump to the conclusion that I worship satan. So I just argue and cope with that. So my advice to you is to just remember that they are wrong and you're aloud to believe what you believe. Good luck in this world my friend.

I'm an atheist and so is half of Reddit.

I was an atheist when I was younger and got made fun of it all the time at my school. Even a teacher said atheism is worshiping the devil. I'm more agnostic now though.

If you live in the U.S. you could contact the ACLU anytime a school official says anything of that nature. Especially if you can get proof of them doing so.
Money for you, and the courts get to fight bigotry.

NO. lol

I live in the UK and I'm an atheist. I remember in religious studies I said that I was an atheist and someone came up to me at the end of lesson and said that I would die in hell... I very much disagree.

I don't believe in God.
There's no proof of his existence.

I'm an atheist

>>340 two Izayas.........

>>337 Can't prove it considering it was years ago, but I still remember it xD

I'm not saying that God is real, or that he isn't real. Not saying that religion is true, or not true. Just trying to live my life as best as I think and that's pretty much it.

>>340 Some people say however, the mere fact we have imagined him proves his existance. Other people also say, imagine the greatest thing you ever could concieve, now the fact that you could imagine that and liken it to good proves he exists, in the way that god forms all things simply by being and you automatically liken the existence of the greatest thing to him. It's hard to understand and even harder to explain it but that was my best shot (I am not Christian by the way) Also, some other other people consider Religion of evidence of God and say that all scientific evidence that points otherwise is simply a test put forwards by him. Some extreme Christians actually buy Science magazines and read them simply to not believe what they say, they reckon the proves their faith.

Not an athiest but I don't believe in any religous system. I believe in a form of reincarnation but I'm not of any one religion. I just try to be a good person

I am an atheist and that doesn`t mean I am absolutly sure he/she/it doesn`t exist just that I decid not to bealive in h/s/i and not to folow christianism,
If god exists, and one day, revels it self to as, I realy won`t dive a fuck, but I`ll admite I was rong, and I still won`t "follow him" or anything like that...

>>347 First, can you please use the proper apostrophe instead of the symbol you are currently using? Thanks. Second, you sound more agnostic than atheist. Agnostics believe there is no proof there is a God and therefore decide not to believe. Atheists say there is absolutely no God and they have proof or are sure.

I'm a christian but I have a lot of friends who are atheist as well. I agree with you, just because you refuse to or are not able to believe in God doesn't mean you worship Satan. You're human just like everyone else and are entitled to your own beliefs

Here, something entirely unhelpful:
If you believe in it, it is real, if you do not, it is fiction.

I'm an atheist too!!^.^ However,I don't think you chose the correct topic for conversation here in Dollars...You see,many atheists are willing to talk about their religious beliefs here and I'm not saying that's a bad thing,but Christians or people of other religions have different beliefs than Atheists.That will be the cause of many conflicts and fights.

>>351 And... who gives a fuck?

Pretty much everything on BBS ends up causing a major conflict at some point.

I don't believe in religion. Though I believe there's someone out there. I believe there is God. I just don't want to give him a name.

So shin-nya, you are not atheist but agnostic?

Not everything...There are threads in which people don't fight,you know...this site is was not made to cause conflict!It was made to have questions answered and that's why we should try to keep it this way.Sure,I've fought with people too here,but I'm against that and try not to get into fights much...

Seeing is not always believing

NuffSaid

I'm atheist, I think that if I can't see it I don't believe it

Yeah I'm an Atheist too, I don't worship the devil either since that's kinda off, why would I beileve in satan and stuff if I don't beileve in god. Even though I know I am a bad person I have atheist friends who are really awesome people -_- On a side note all of our groups have good and bad people and we have to deal with that.

Im not an atheist im wiccan but i support atheism, i was an atheist for a long time but felt no comfort and us ungodly lonl(get it un-godly). and the pressure of my family wanting me to go to church pissed me off so i turned into my own religion and became a healer and lover of nature and i dont look down on anyones religious veiws and im glad to see all of you atheists because you'll make great people someday

^

I'm no atheist myself, but i don't go around being a bible thump-er. I have plenty of friends who are atheist that i respect however, and i feel like people need to be just as tolerant of atheism as other religions in the world. It's your choice what you want, to each their own, that's what i say at-least.

I am as well, also a Satanist.

Quite honestly, I'd be surprised if there were many Christians here.

>>365 Why?

Probly because most anime fans are realistic yet open minded.
kinda against most religions.
also I am an atheist as well.

>>367 Actually, religion requires more of an open mind than being atheist. I also wouldn't really consider it anything to do with Anime.

not the anime itself, but the average personallity of the fans.
and i mean the realistic part, not the open minded part.
the open mind is usually opressed by the church is why i mentioned it.

i'm atheist but i'm growing up in a house full of muslims. they don't know i'm atheist

I know how you feel, I'm surrounded by protestants.
I'm just hidding it till I move out.

>>367 That's...seriously ignorant of you.

And argue your point all you want, but generalizing like that was ironically close minded of you.

I'm agnostic but I'm getting pretty sick of people generalising religions to their lowest denominators.

Just because some Christians are crazy assholes does not mean all Christians are crazy assholes, religion can inspire people to do amazing things. Faith is needed in life and religion is the most popular channelling tool for peoples need for a greater purpose/power, why hate them just for that? Atheists on the internet are becoming as bad as the Christians they bag for being "oppressive and close minded". We know so little about anything guys, don't get so cocksure.


So yeah, the general gist of what I'm saying is: religion often has nothing to do with IQ or personality, so please stop being assholes about it.

>>373

>>373 Take, "Faith is needed in life," out and I'll agree with you \o\

>>375 Faith, hope, and beliefs are the same thing.

>>375 When it's so hard to really 'know' anything is faith not needed? You have faith the sun will rise tomorrow, faith the police won't find a kilo of cocaine under your bed, faith your family isn't actually secretly a cult of satanic cannibals that only bred you so that they may feed on you at a later date. In that regard, is faith not needed?

Plus >>376 kind of overrides all.

>>376 >>378 You don't have to have it :L

I don't drown myself in hope or beliefs either. Things happen how things happen - dreaming for the better doesn't change much, imo. So what if the sun doesn't rise tomorrow? It's nothing that I can control, so I don't hope and pray for it. I base my opinions and "beliefs" on what is likely to happen rather than what I hope is going to happen, and that is not faith.

You can't say everyone has something, because everyone is different. Not everybody has faith, nor does everyone need it.

And even if you do have "hope" in little things, that doesn't mean you have to have general "faith" in your life.

>>379
AHA, you have faith that people don't need faith. You think the sun will rise tomorrow, but you can't prove it. That means you have faith in it.

But lets get the wikipedia definition of faith:
Faith is confidence or trust in a person, thing, deity, or in the doctrines or teachings of a religion.

So if you still think it is not necessary to trust a single idea, object or person then sure, I will leave you to your beliefs.

>>381 *HIGH FIVES*

>>379 Seriously though. Didn't you ever have an ambition in life? I want, a craving, a desire? You would strive to accomplish it because you envision yourself someplace in the future. Even if you really do use facts on what will happen or what you will get out of life, haven't you ever thought of what it would be like if things were different? For instance, when you have a crush, you hope they like you back right? You don't think, oh well judging by the number of girls in this school and what his likely tastes are I have this % chance to be with him/her.

>>381 I don't have faith that people don't need it - I believe there is a possibility that not everyone needs it. That is not faith.

I don't think the sun will rise tomorrow. But so long as it's a possibility, I'll live how I life. I repeat: If it doesn't rise tomorrow, so what? It's out of my hands.

And no, I don't trust a single idea, object, nor person with all my heart. I love my friends and family, but would I trust them with my life? Fuck no. I don't even trust myself with my own life.

I'll have to drive a car, but will I trust that it won't malfunction? Will I trust that I won't crash? Fuck no. Shit happens how it happens, and I don't feel the need to assume nor believe it won't.

I'm not saying anyone has to agree with me; I'm just saying that you can't say that faith is a requirement of living.

>>382 You an envision yourself someplace without having faith you're going to be there. I don't hope they like me back; I figure they like me or they don't, whatever, if they like me let's go out, if they don't oh well. I don't assume or hope they like me back. Why would I even?

can*

I either know something or I don't. There is a very small area between those for me, and it's not large enough for me to say I have "faith" in anything. I think the word itself is in the gray.

The fact that we can even debate it shows that it's not something that should be applied to every little thing you think of.

But if you want to carry on, I do think there is a difference between hope, faith, and beliefs. Faith is trust in something. Hope is a dream for something. Beliefs are things you consider facts. You don't have to trust nor dream of a fact, because it's solid. I don't think that knowing something is the same as trusting that something is what it is; you either know or you trust.

It's a weird argument, honestly. I think you guys are spreading the terms way too wide.

>>384 Don't you ever feel lonely like that though? Sometimes I think about not having anything to believe in, and I just see myself on top of a roof. Do you believe I'm weak because of that?
Be honest; I just want to understand your view of things.

>>383 I think you are missing the definition of faith.

Faith is thinking without knowing for sure (aka believing). Knowing something for sure is damn near impossible so technically, everything you think is merely varying degrees of faith to educated guesses.

It doesn't matter how little you care if the sun will rise tomorrow, you still think it will. Because you think it will but you can't prove it will you have faith. Perhaps I should phrase what I originally said better: "progressing through life is impossible without faith". You can't know everything for sure about everything you do, that's physically impossible. Everybody has some stage in their life in which they must place faith.

You can put very little faith into something but it is still faith, it does not require your entire heart and soul. You obviously reckon that if you drive a car it is more likely it will not crash, or else you would not drive it. So what you have is faith a car crash is not a certain danger.

So I don't have to agree with you, I just can't disagree with you. That puts me in a rather awkward position.

>>387 Not really. I enjoy having time with all my friends whether I think they'll catch me when I fall or not lol That's not weak; some people are just different and NEED something to believe in. I really don't. When I did, my mind was just fogged up and blah, and then I realized the godly overtone I put on everything was narrowing my vision so I backed off and came to the beliefs I have now.

It's not lonely; it's just another way of thinking and living.

Anyway, we are fighting amongst the ranks people!

This all originated from a basic agreement about an angry rant, then escalated from 2 light heated conversations.

We are becoming as bad as the people we were first on agreement about how shit they were. By criticising each other for minor differences in beliefs we are morphing into them.

LET THERE BE PEACE

Hearted*

>>390 But we weren't insulting each other...

I thought this was light-hearted. I never met someone who didn't believe in anything before. It's kind of like the first time I had ever met an atheist. we didn't argue on religion, but wonder how she gets by by not believing someone was their to catch you when you fall and that life doesn't ever really end.

>>388 Again, I think you're spreading the word faith way too thin.

I don't know that the sun will rise tomorrow. But there's no way to prepare for it not rising, so I prepare for it to rise. You know how to prepare for a sunrise. I don't think a car will not crash, but there's on way to prepare for it crashing, so I drive it anyway. You can't help what you don't know. I can't prepare for failure, so I prepare for success. That doesn't mean I have faith that I'm going to be successful. I can't prepare for death, so I prepare for life. That doesn't mean I have faith I won't die tomorrow. It's simple as that. Doing what you can is not faith.

LMAO I fucked up!!!! Read Random Thoughts and you'll get it!!! XD

>>392 I swear to God, it was a joke on random and I just forgot to erase it.

>>395 xD

>>390

But yeah, I'm not criticizing your beliefs, but rather your use of the word and application of it on everyone else. You can have faith all you want; just don't tell me that I can't move forward in life unless I have it :I

>>373 Based on this and our discussion on the philosophy thread, I think I love you.

>>379 I'm going to prove you need faith by using nuerology. The sixth sense. Contrary to popular belief, it 1. Exists 2. Isn't spiritual in anyway. This "secret sense," also known scientifically as proprioception, is the "continuous but unconscious" flow and movement of our current movable body parts. Basically, our sixth sense is the fact we can even move our body, and it's so familiar it's unconscious. That's an example of faith. We have faith our sixth sense, heck even our other 5 senses, will always work without even realizing we have faith in it in the first place. To say humans don't need faith is to say we consciously breathe every second of the day.

Resepected, faith in a suppernatural being and faith in oneself are two different things; but I wanted to prove that, nonetheless, humans DO need faith. Faith, belief, hope, etc, are all needed to live.

>>397 I know all that first part -_- But I hardly think the sixth sense is the same as faith.

>>396 Yeah, I'm a mess. XD

>>394 Actually, I think you are secretly GodHatesFags cohort in crime, I'm onto you Magnolia.

>>393 ONE QUICK LAST THING
Are you sure you aren't spreading the word Faith too concentradedly (that's a word now)? I mean it is kind of me, Magnolia, wikipedia and the dictionary against you. I think you are using it in a purely spiritual or religious sense, when really it broadens to any non-scientific knowledge or any unproven scientific knowledge. Hell, Atheism involves a whole lot of faith in itself!

Wait, you seriously go to bed every night thinking "Well it's quite possibly the sun won't rise tommorow, but who am I to prepare for that?"? I kind of think you are bending your own mindstate to suit your argument now. There are plenty ways to prepare for a car to crash, if you truly believe it is that possible then there are lots of safety procedures you could look upon. That would also require you never getting drunk or high due to the fact that it's preparing you for any injuries you might withstain whilst intoxicated. Just doing a lot of the time is faith, it's surprisingly common.

>>397 Ooo! Somebody's got a fan!

>>400 Dammit. You just had to say it, didn't chya? XDD
I seriously had a heart attack as soon I saw my comment's name.

>>400 I'm not limiting it to religious beliefs, as I stated previously - I'm just not blaming every single thought process a person has on it.

And you do those minor precautions automatically. Or at least, I do. But that's the extent that you can prepare for it.

I repeat: It's fine for you to have faith. It's fine for you to believe in it. But don't shove it down everyone's throats as a necessary part of living.

>>397 Wait does that mean the 6th sense is the Nervous System?

Also I just want to thank you people for having opinions and standing up for them. It's so hard to validate views to yourself unless you can hold them up against others and the Dollars in general put up a hell of a lot more of a stand than most people I know IRL

Weird place to be thanking the general population of the dollars but it just kind of sprung to mind at that point of time.

Also it's 5 in the morning so I should probably get to sleep.

>>404 It's way too late for that. Watch some Arrested Development and have farrrrrr too much Kool Aid like I did.

Man am I on a sugar rush. My ADD is through the roof right now.

>>404 You probably should xD

Yeah, it's nice seeing everyone talking openly, even if it leads to them clawing at one another's throats by the end of it.

>>404 No, they are different. Sorry if I didn't explain it well but proprioception is the act of unconsciously using our body in any way. At least that's what my neurology book said xD

And nah, I don't think it's late enough to sleep yet *sarasm*

>>406 Agreed :p

^

^

I'm pretty late on this but I'm an Atheist C: I shall try and leave this now without a fight

I wouldn't consider myself religious, but not an atheist either? I don't know what to think about it so I don't think about it at all.

>>412 And in that stroke you have made yourself just as bad as the Christians you originally fought against. Atheist's can also be extremists, it isn't the religion that causes it, it's the people inside it. I have always said, "Faith is an amazing tool, Religion is it's flawed construct and Fanaticism is the flaws", as soon as you base all religious people off the lowest common denominator, you become as bad as them. Also, don't say "Most religious texts" Because you are clearly just talking about the Bible. Many religions have no bias towards homosexuals and once again, you are generalising horribly. I am not religious as such but I do believe in a variation to Buddhist Philosophy, I do not force it down others throats and I am open to adapting it. Believe it or not, but there quite possibly is a god out there, we don't know, scientists only have slightly more of an idea than the rest of us. Don't close your mind to the universe because of some close minded universalistic bogans. That is all.

>>413 That's called being Agnostic.

>>414 Guh I'm taking this off-topic and essentially beating a dead/dying horse but I don't really consider myself agnostic either. I'm more solipsistic than anything else.
But I'm solipsistic in the sense that that's all I can prove as of now - you never know when something'll prove you wrong.
(Oooh, do we have a thread on solipsism? I'm going to look for it now!)
Also dayum that paragraph to Axel is really lovely; kudos to you.

Note to self, done with main stream religion, time to prepare Kingdom Hearts religion thread. That way people stop flaming me for responding to the prompt.

>>416 Had to google that term but it seems like a really interesting idea; sort of like the epitome of cynical. I guess if you think about it logically, every single member of the human race should technically be solipsistic until they can prove otherwise.

>>418 Yeah, when I was a little kid and my religious grandmother asked me if I believed in God I told her something along the lines of, "I even know if your green is the same as my green; how would I know if there's a god?"
I was an insightful child, I guess?
But yeah, it's pretty cynical. I like to think it to be similar to when you're dreaming - you don't realize you're dreaming and that nothing around you is actually happening. Unless you're a lucid dreamer or someone who believes dreams actually happen or whatever, I guess. I'm a logical thinker, but I'm also willing to see possibilities.
Thinking about everyone else being solipsistic makes me laugh. At least we wouldn't have to worry about belief-related issues, right? We'd all be so stuck in our own heads :P

>>419 I swear, we seem to be at our wisest and most inspirational when we were young kids, guess we just start thinking inside the box somewhere along the way. That sounds like one of those quotes from a witty famous person that you seen floating round the net every once in a while. I actually dream very little (Around once every 2 months (And it's not that I don't dream, I literally dream black for some reason)), so I have no memory of ever experiencing that feeling. Trying to go through a cultural revolution whilst only trusting in the fact that you exist would certainly be no easy feat, would love to have seen what would happen.

>>420 It's their naivety and lack of awareness that makes them think that way, if you ask me. Young children don't have enough understanding to tether to any particular belief, so their thinking is much more unique. Hence why I don't confirm nor deny the existence of any deity or creature other than myself - it would limit my thoughts, as they would be based to heavily on either probability or blind belief.
Another comparison I could make is if you're a paranoid person in a really dark room. You think you see something moving around out of the corner of your eye, but it's so dark you can't be sure if it actually happened. Or if you're high whilst in a dark room - now THAT would be scary :P
I think I'll just move to Antarctica and avoid meeting people ever again to stay out of the conflict, haha.

I'm an atheist in a catholic family. Whenever there's a religious event and I don't go along with them, they think it is because of some evil entity, or I'm "in a stage." I have had debates and conversations with religious people about my beliefs and theirs, but everything I say goes right through their heads. One guy even said at the end of one of our conversations, "I hope you find jesus one day" after that I just stopped trying to deal with those types of people..... But it does help to have another atheist to back you up because the religious person will just stop talking :) However, these days I do agree with Blinking, I'd rather avoid conflict too lol

Yes, I am. I'm going to leave it at that

I am and I'm the only one i know who is. I'm glad to know there are others out there.

^