Why should gays be granted the right to marry or not to marry legally in the US? I've been reconsidering my opinion about that recently and I want to know what other people think?
Thanks,
R

Because they are human, and so are you. If you have that right why shouldn't they?
Here I have a better question. Why shouldn't marriage be outlawed completely?
There must me another form of claiming legality over one another right? To me that's all marriage really signifies.
That's how crazy this questions sounds to me..
What is so great about marriage anyway, this is just segregation in disguise because people always need something to hate to make themselves
Feel better.

It's not a matter of whether or not gay marriage should be legal, because marriage is really when society sanctions a decision made by two individuals. Legality has nothing to do with it. The real question is "when will society mature enough to be comfortable with an unconventional decision" and the answer is "eventually" I know it sounds harsh, but the truth is is that these things take time. to be honest I'm rather astounded that as much progress has been made to get gay marriage legalized as it has.
after all, gay marriage is by no means a new concept, but with the generational mindset changing as the years pass people are becoming more and more open to the idea.

Would this thread actually be Main-worthy?
:P

I think it could be, it's more of an overarching topic of discussion on ideas and ideals as opposed to asking for guidance on a matter. Any objections as to a remake on Main?

I have no objections.

This thread would be main-worthy.

Do you want someone telling you that you can't be yourself because of x, y, and z reasons? How would you feel if someone said, "You can't be female because God made Adam first, and Eve was just a part of him."? I can give a lot more examples, but they would get highly offensive. Fuck. If someone wants to love someone then why do you or I have any say in it. We aren't told we can't marry who we love.

What they are facing is like someone saying, "You know that person you love? Well, you can't marry them. People like you should not be marrying people like them. It's unnatural." If someone said that to you for some other reason, wouldn't you be upset? They aren't forcing you to marry someone the same gender as you, so back off.

I'm sorry if it seems I'm snapping at you. Most of this is really to all of the people with homophobia.

The gay people don't tell us it's wrong to be straight, and isn't' the golden rule "Treat others the way you want to be treated?" Besides their arguments against it is highly hypocritical. All I see from people who don't want gay marriage is ignorance and stupidity. They don't understand, and they hide behind the same hypocritical arguments of having children and the bible.

To those of us who actually do research, their ignorance shows as easily as if they were trying to hide in the dark when they were on fire. It pisses me off. In my opinion, if you want to argue against something, do your homework, look it up, and give some logical arguments against it. If they had some good arguments against it, then I would continue to argue, but be less irked by it. It is a simple fact that they are arguing about what they do not know and try to make me think that they know what they're talking about when they don't.

I'm pretty sure many more people see it the same way I do.

For the sake of copy-pasting something I've already posted on two other threads, I'm double-posting because it is as relevant to this thread as it was the other two.

"Since religion seems to be a key concept here, let me put in a brief word about religion. Yes, the bible says being gay is wrong. To use that as an excuse, you would have to follow strictly by the bible, or else your point is highly hypocritical and therefor void. I can say honestly that most of the people that use that lame excuse aren't ever christian. The ones that are christian don't follow purely by the bible.

To use the "Adam and Eve" vs "Adam and Adam" excuse also means you'd have to follow strictly by the bible. The bible says hat yo should forgive, love, and not judge. The bible even says that you aren't the judge of who goes to heaven and hell, but God does. On top of that I don't even believe I've read a verse saying that being gay sends you to hell. I've looked it up many times. If I'm wrong, then someone tell me where the fuck it says this. Every passage I've read on the subject up until now has only said "it's wrong" or "don't do it".

The whole, "pray to god for forgiveness and he'll heal you" thing is also BS in my opinion. Yea, I'm christian and believe God will listen to out prayers, but the second part of that theory is it's own undoing. I've asked, "Why would God make them gay if it's wrong?" I was told, "It's a test." So tell me why he'd heal you if he's testing you? I don't understand ho he can be testing someone by making them gay, only to make them straight if they pray for forgiveness when he made them gay in the first place.

Since science is followed as readily as a religion by some, let me put in my opinion about science as well. You cannot say that it's wrong because they cannot have children. A study was done on overcrowding with lab rats. The scientist saw that the rats began to turn to homosexuality when there was overcrowding. I was not told much on the subject, so I looked it up.

Here is an article on his study:
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1200/is_v129/ai_4258429/

Here is a forum discussing the study:
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=109303951&page=1

Of course, people are not rats. That does not mean that what the rats were facing and what the human race faces is not eerily similar. What is this to say for us? Well, I am not trying to explain away homosexuality. I am simply saying that it isn't grounds for hating someone. It is beyond the person's control.

I, however, have a simply way of looking at it. As long as you are not hurting yourself or someone else, I don't give a fuck what you do. If you want to be a homeless man on the side of the world listening to conspiracy theories of aliens taking over by pigeons as you are mauled by zebras, be my guess. As long as your behavior isn't dangerous to you or those around you I don't care what you do or who you are. Another condition is if you don't attempt to change or force your opinions on me. I will give you the same respect."

Homosexual men and women have absolutely every right to get married. It's something you do out of love, and if they love each other, they should have the right to a union. They should be together.

it doesnt matter every one else gets married so they should be able to

I think everyone should have the same rights regardless of their sexual preferences. If a straight couple can get married then a gay couple should be able to do the same.

>>3 thats why we didn't allow it at first, because it was 'unconventional'

anyways, im not gonna start a scuffle, people are too stubborn and want to believe wat they want. -even if they burn in hell for eternity-

no im kidding. seriosly...kidding, I just...a very deep hatred. Anyhoo, enjoy yourselves. Please do. >_>

As soon as we can put our differences aside the better off we will be.
There is no logical argument against gay marriage.
We need to stop waiting for god to show up and start actively searching for god...whatever it is. We can't do that until humans learn how to get over silly shit like this.

bump!

I honestly don't see the point of gay marriage. I know three quarters of my friends are going to punch me for this, but I honestly don't get it. Marriage was originally a religious idea. Nowadays, there are a lot of extra rights that come with being married, but the majority of them can also be gotten from this like civil unions. What is so wrong with a civil union? I understand if it is a religious gay person who wants to united under God with their partner in an official marriage, but it seems really pointless for an atheist gay couple to want a gay marriage. Many gays are atheist or follow other religious ideals, so why would they want a marriage? I honestly do not understand.

Could someone please explain to me the point of begging for a marriage when there are already civil unions?

>>14 Same boat.
I think it's just a silly thing people want to argue about. Humans thrive in chaos. It's our nature. I honestly don't see the point of marriage at all. It seems like a waste, be it gay, straight, beast, or whatever. Sure they should be allowed to if they want...I mean, marriage is an empty idea but it is anyone's right to waste time.

>>14 It's less about being able to marry as it is the ideal. Marriage and walking down the street in a pink shirt were two of the things gays haven't been able to do for a while now, so if gay marriage was to be legalized across the board, it's basically saying they're on the same level as everyone else and the government acknowledges that they can be together.

>>16 Minus the religious factor, a civil union is equal to marriage. So how would having a civil union put them on a different level than a couple who is married?

>>17 Not necessarily the same level. Civil union do not grant next of kin status, meaning should you be in the hospital or die or some such you miss out on certain rights that married couples have.

As for your earlier statement, marriage has been around much longer than the religions that claimed it. It has been a political tool among local farmers and royalty sense the late Mesopotamia early Greek. It is a system that joins two families so that if one goes into hard times the shared love can carry each other through. It's no more originally of religion than Christmas is originally from Christianity.

>>18 Um... I don't mean to be ru- Oh, fuck it. I mean to be as rude as possible: Is your ass sore from you having pulled so much shit out of it? Sorry, my curiosity got the better of me.

No. Our idea of modern day marriage comes from religion. There have always been forms of kinship unions, but modern "marriage" came from religious ideals. It does have rights, but again, the majority of those rights can be gotten in civil unions. You may not have certain rights, but they're not entirely huge. You can usually get around them using other methods. For those you can't, oh well. Is it really the end of the world if you're missing one or two rights compared to someone in a marriage? Is it really necessary to start up all this hype for those few rights?

Also, Christmas IS the birth of Christ. The current date the we celebrate it in is originally from Christianity. People didn't just decide to celebrate Christmas for no reason; it started because of religion. There were always many Winter holidays throughout time, and the ways we celebrate Christmas (for example, decorating an evergreen) come from other celebrations, but Christmas is Christmas. Christmas is Christ. Christmas IS Christian.

>>18 If you can show me proof of your points (not Wikipedia, and not some shotty website without a proper organization behind it), then that will make much more sense to me.

One more thing. If you say the point of religion is to join families together, why is it necessary for gays, half of which who have been disowned by their families, to get married?

I guess I should repeat this: I'm not against homosexuals or bisexuals at all. I just really don't see why they have to push for marriage now that they've already gotten so many rights, and I especially don't see the point of them getting married in the first place.

http://www2.hu-berlin.de/sexology/ATLAS_EN/html/history_of_marriage_in_western.html

"Marriage, as we know it in our Western civilization today, has a long history with roots in several very different ancient cultures, of which the Roman, Hebrew, and Germanic are the most important.

Western marriage has further been shaped by the doctrines and policies of the medieval Christian church, the demands of the Protestant Reformation, and the social impact of the Industrial Revolution."

As for Christmas, it originated at a time when the cult of the sun was particularly strong at Rome, about three centuries after the death of Jesus.
At these celebrations Pagan people would exchange gifts and feast on good food. A practise that that still happens in to days times.
Jesus was not born on christmas day. Early christians did not celebrate the birth of Jesus. the custom was adopted centuries later.
Jesus was born when the shepherds were on the hills. This could not have happened in december as the seasons back then were very cold and wintry and the sheep were looked after indoors.

If the nativity stories are to be believed Jesus was most likely born some time in march.
http://www.biblestudying.net/christmas.html

But at this point we are several leagues off comment over one casual retort.

>>17 Like I said; to prove a point. "We can get married just like you, something we weren't allowed to do for years."

>>21 Okay, that makes more sense now regarding the Christmas part. I was misinformed regarding the dates; I had heard about most of it, but I thought it was before Jesus' birth. (Me + Dates = Derp) Regarding the first part, it says exactly what I've been saying. Modern western marriage is majorly based on religion.

>>22 I think that's just it - I really don't understand that mentality.

But that's not it at all, Its only been shaped by religion. It is a very secular tradition that was claimed by religion during the pagan vacume and Christianities subsequent rise to dominance. It is entirely possible to have a secular wedding as shown by the fact that you can be married by captains or govt officials through vows sworn upon each other rather than the bible. In the end its the states that grant the marriage licence and not the church I am afraid. That is where I am coming from saying it is a secular event rather than religious ritual.

In my opinion, there's no reason why gay's shouldn't be allowed to marry. It doesn't matter; if they really love eachother then whats the difference then a normal heterosexual relationship? What, did the entire world suddenly turn into homophobs lol. Love is love.

Me thinks that, ultimately, marriage is unnecessary for gays..if they really love each other, then go live together even without the benefit of marriage..marriage is just for formality..what's important here is the love between the two lovebirds..you don't need marriage just to show to the world that you're in a relationship..it'll just create issues which is prevalent today..just keep loving each other unconditionally & endlessly..that's really the most significant thing..

Love & peace everyone!!

needs more bumping, also i have a response to this but i want to be sure i used propper spelling so i'm still typing it all out.

bump. leave the people alone. they're gonna marry who they want to, even if it's gonna be a gay marriage. it's not our place to interfer with love.

i godda have more Bumping.

I'd love for gay marriage to be legal.
People should own the rights to marry who they wanna marry.

In response to your question, gay marriage should be given the right to marry legally because they are people of the United States, where all men are created equal. It's not exactly equal if people of different sexes can marry and people of the same sex cannot.I

great question for a lot of responces.
but it is to contraversal to satisfy your need for an answer.

really i think they should have the right, they don't hurt anybody else by it and in fact quite the opposite people might bug them for it which is wrong its marriage and should be allowed to accept anyone into your arms whether they be man or women

BUMP! KEEP BUMPING! (still writing out my own answer)

>>36 Pick one name and stick with it.

bump
>>37 back off. it isnt worth your time. you know that.

>>38 whiteknighting will get you nowhere

>>38 You shouldn't be talking. You know, considering you've been samefagging all over the boards :V

>>14 Do you know why most gays are atheist? I can't speak for all of them, but I'll tell you what I know from the people I've talked to. They get told over and over that they can't be gay. They get told they are going to hell for being gay. Kids that are kicked out of the house for being gay. Families are destroyed because of it. Gay kids can't tell their parents who they're dating because they fear how their parents react. All of the people who cause this stand by the same reasons of, "You'll go to hell for being gay," or "It's a sin to be gay." I would be an atheist too if I had to deal with that.

I would like to point something else out to you BarabiSama. It isn't the religious part that bothers me personally. It's the legal part. If they want to be legally married to the person they love, then let them. Your civil union thing is nice and all, but not all of the states have that even. Do to my lack of knowledge in other countries, I cannot say if this is an issue anywhere else other than the United States.

>>15 I do not argue this for chaos. I believe we should let people do what they want as long as it is not wrong by common morals (like rape, murder, stealing, etc). The fact that people keep strongly opposing people when they do what makes them happy bothers me. It's also a nuisance to here this all the time. It can be easily avoided if people would just sit back and enjoy life while letting everyone else do the same.

Chrome, everyone sees marriage differently. To some people it's a way of claiming someone as theirs. In some relationships, it's a way to prove that they'll always be faithful. In some relationships, it's a way for people to say, "I love you and I will always love you." Actions speak louder than words. The act of getting married is stronger than just telling someone how you feel. This may only be an issue because humans will lie at any chance they get, but it doesn't make it any less true.

>>26 Read pretty much everything I've said above in this post. I don't feel like repeating myself.

>>16 Thank you for stating another reason for gay marriage which I missed.

To finish off this post, I'm copying what >>16 said because it's a good reason and I couldn't have said it any better myself.

"It's less about being able to marry as it is the ideal. Marriage and walking down the street in a pink shirt were two of the things gays haven't been able to do for a while now, so if gay marriage was to be legalized across the board, it's basically saying they're on the same level as everyone else and the government acknowledges that they can be together."

Just because they're homosexual, doesn't mean they can't be equal to heterosexual people.

People marry for love. Just because they are interested in the same gender, doesn't mean we should treat them any differently.

So what the hell? Why do people have to treat them like they are dirt? They are human, we're human.

I support gay marriage, because people marry because they love that person.

>>43 >>41 I think the reason why I just don't get it is because I don't see marriage as a "love" thing :T My family has a habit of staying with people without marrying them. My aunt and uncle have been in a relationship for over forty years without ever getting married. I just don't see why marriage is so necessary that it needs to be fought for.

>>44 Honestly, it's not and never has been. A hypothetical might help.

Despite our mutual understanding we seem to have, I know next to nothing about you, so go with me on this. Assuming you have brown hair, you wake up one morning and learn that the government has made it illegal for people with brown hair to be married. You might not want to be married, but I'm sure at least one person you know -a friend, sibling, etc.- has brown hair and may, at some point in life, want to get married. Would that not anger you that, just because of the color of their hair, your loved one and yourself are not allowed a right people of other hair colors have?

>>45 Not really. Just because you don't have something doesn't mean you /need/ to have it. If it's not necessary, then what's the problem? If it's not something that is honestly needed, I don't see anything wrong with it not being allowed. People have been compromising between need and want forever; these things are bound to be, but I don't see how it is so big of a deal. My gay friends go on and on about how horrible it is that they can't get married, but when I ask them why they need to get married, they can't answer.

I just... don't understand the mentality, either. Because you can't have it you want it? :| It sounds like a really greedy mental state when it is put that way, but is that the easiest way to put it?

>>47 I wouldn't really care, that's the point. If it was something important and necessary for my survival, yeah, I would give a fuck. But if it's just something extra, I wouldn't go all out and create a huge controversy over it just because I didn't get what I wanted.

Screw it, I'm just going to explain my full opinion:

This whole cause is reminiscent to a child having a temper tantrum to me (no offense intended). I know you all want equality, and I want you guys to have equality, too, but is all this really necessary? There are so many more important causes that are being pushed aside for gay rights, gay marriage being a big gay right topic. It's almost selfish that you couldn't even calm the cause down when the government started spazzing out, although I can only talk for the US. I know your cause is important, but there are bigger eggs that need to be fried before I think something like this needs to be heeded to.

>>49 English, please.

>>52 In that case, it's the same as what you posted before, and I already responded to that. The reason gay marriage isn't going to be brought up anytime soon is because the government is full of anti-fags, and many citizens in this country do not agree with gay marriage. Because this is a democratic republic, things aren't supposed to happen unless the majority and their respective representatives agree.

>>45 You just said what I said in >>6. The only difference is your post was shorter.

Ashley and BarabiSama, I don't want to reply to each post individually, so I'm just going to say this in response to everything you said. I agree that there are other issues more important than gay rights, but that doesn't mean gay rights has to be ignored. Many of the issues we are dealing with are issues that we have been dealing with for years. If you think about it, the majority of the people in power have had the same opinion for years. Despite them being different, they have always viewed things the same.

I don't mean to rain on anybody's parade, but in America we've been stuck with the ideals and thought processes. There are the democrats and republicans. We have the liberals and radicals. If yo really look at it, they focus on the same issues. The only difference is they they are on one side or the other. Maybe we just need people who think differently. I believe we need someone who thinks outside the box. They say insanity is trying the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. Is that not what the goverment is doing?

I have my own opinions, and they may differ from yours. They call this a democratic republic, but all this really is is us electing people to make decisions for us. That's cheery and all, but then we get mad when we don't get what we want. When we get upset over what we want, we're told, "You could've voted for someone else." Do you want to know what I think about elections? It's a contest to determine who is the best liar. Who ever is the best liar gets to rule our country.

I don't think it's a "majority rule" in America, so I don't think the idea of "majority of people not wanting gay marriage" does not apply here. I think it's people lying to get into power and change things to get what they want. Yea, most of them to want the best for the country, but not all of them are as intelligent as they seem when you vote for them. I think they all try the same methods of arguing-until-the-other-gives-up-and-declares-me-the-winner. How do I think this problem should be solved? I have no idea. I really haven't cared much about politics until I realized I wanted to make a change and politics are going against that, so I haven't had much time to think of a solution to the problems I've seen.

Okay, now I'm rambling. As I was saying short and simple. I think that the goverment is close minded and not opened to new opinions. If they would expand their minds, maybe somethings could get done. As an outcome, maybe whatever person is able to think like this will support some of the things that we are supporting, but have not been changed, because they are a more open minded than the people that are currently in power.

Now that I'm thinking about goverment, I'm going to reply to the "Birth of a Goverment" thread.

>>54 Yeah... Lot of... bias in that post :| Needless to say, I don't share your opinion, for the most part.

However, the government has had more pertinent issues in recent years, especially with the election of Barack Obama. There are reforms everywhere within the system. So much shit is going on in the government. Our government sucks; not gonna lie. They can barely get anything done at a meeting. That's why it is even more important for topics to be singled out for them to deal with. There just isn't enough time to single out both every pertinent issue and every reformable cause to deal with. I think it's rude to be shoving the gay rights movement down the government's throat when we really need them to deal with the shit that they're already chewing on :V

>>55 Hey, look. A tripcode fail. And a samefag. Welcome back, Ashley/Mayu/Miku/Freemason.

>>56 Hey, I'm a biased person. Believe it or not, I rarely argue my exact beliefs as I have just done. Why? Because I know both sides of the argument would get pissed at me because it is nothing like either side. My arguments usually are against the beliefs of each side. My honest opinion? The goverment needs to stop the arguing and make a fucking decision. If it's the wrong one, then they can deal will hell for their screw up.

Either way, the reason I don't state what I think other than the reasons I have already said, is because it's a lot less stressful than arguing about it. As I've said many times here, I believe people should just let everyone else do what they want to unless it's wrong by common morals (such as rape, murder, stealing, cheating, etc.).

To all of the people who argue until they're blue in the face. If it's not hurting you, and it's not against common morals, then why do you care? Gay people getting married will not cause anyone to die, get killed, or lose their life fortune. It has no effect on you, so why do you care? What makes this so fucking important that you cannot alloy this under any circumstances? Is the world going to end? Will the sky fall? Fuck just leave people be and let them do what they want (common morals still apply).

>>57 That is what I'm talking about. Does the samefagness really hurt us? Just ignore it and it'll go away eventually. If this samefag was trying to kill us all, then I'd see where the issue is. If the samefag is just trying to state their opinions, then let them speak. Unlesss they are white knighting themselves. That's just pitiful.

Openmindedness. People who are different have different opinions. We need to think outside the box sometimes and it helps when we listen to everyone, and not just shut them out because they are different.

I only came to this thread to state my opinion. I'm not going to hover over it and comment after every other one

>>58 lol!no. Samefagging without a good reason is pointless and fucking stupid, and it's even worse when they're obviously the same person and try to use the, "It was my sister/brother!" excuse so they can later pretend they're diffrent people; I have every right to point it out. Deal with it. I've dealt with enough samefagging to know where this is headed if you don't point it out and get them to knock it off immediately.

>>58 thank you for unattentionaly defending.
>>60 Im sorry that I got you mad about samefagging Ill get rid of my other names ok. I am for gay right Im a lesbian I would like to be able get married. I wish

...Gays should be granted the right to marry LEGALLY in the US because LEGALLY there's nothing wrong with it...
I mean really.

Before I derail this thread anymore than I have with goverment and samefag discussions, I'll go for the night, or maybe post on a couple more threads. Later!

Oh by the way.
...In my personal opinion. There's nothing wrong with gay marriage AT ALL. Just thought I'd put that out there as well.

If the concept of marriage is a religious one then the government has no right to issue marriage licenses to gays...or anyone else. If it is really a question of religious freedom then the government should only issue civil unions to all couples and give all couples the same rights under the law. Then if a straight couple wants to get married in the eyes of their religion they can do so in whatever church they want.

simple answer, let people be with and marry who they want, it's their life and their choice, no one can make those choices for them so why do they attempt to?

Gay marriage is ok with me because it's not my place to tell people that can or can't get married. Even for religion.

Is gay marriage okay? Of course it is.
Why? Because it makes the two lovers in question happy. That's it.

What gives people the right to take away another person's happiness? Everyone deserves to be happy, and if homosexuality is someone's thing, more power to them.

Let 'em get hitched. Not hurting anyone.

All the religious crap about gay people not getting married is just that, crap. If two people love each other they should damn well be able to get married. Being gay is a natural thing, as seen by the many animals that practice this way of life. Gay marriage is not some social issue, it is between the two lovers who want to get married.

>>68 >>69 agreed if there happy let them get married

I don't care what type of people, or what type of gender they are, as long as they love each other they have the right to do whatever they want :)

To put it as plainly as I can, I believe it's a gross imposition on the freedoms of others to make same sex marriage illegal. Regardless of ones moral/religious/etc. views (though mine are that love is what counts, not gender) I don't believe that it's a justifiable reason to force those beliefs onto others and restrict their rights.
And I honestly abhor the belief that gay marriage will affect the marriages of heterosexuals. I honestly cannot imagine how it does.
And I especially abhor the idea that gays shouldn't be allowed to raise children. I do not say this phrase in the believe that it is true for all heterosexual couples who have children, for I know it does not hold true for all of them, but homosexuals would raise children for much better reasons than "the condom broke."
Just throwing my 2 cents in.

bump

I don't care as long as people are nice who cares who they love??

Think about it this way. If there is no God, then our bodies are ours and we should be free to do with them what we want. It's as simple as that. But if there is a God then things become far more interesting to deal with. For instance, I know that Christians are against it because yes they claim it is unnatural, but more specifically because they believe that their body is not theirs. It's a loan that they are just using temporarily. And if the real owner doesn't want them to do something with it then they are morally obligated to obey him/her. It really all comes down to the question "is there a God or not."

i dont think think gays should be treated any differently than straight people. After all isnt everybody suppose to be treated equally? then why shouldnt gay marriage be legal? its only common sense.

>>75 That is... very narrow minded thinking.
I see a lot of gay people in a Private Catholic School near where I live and to be honest their assholes. I'm not saying it's true for all gay people but looking at them makes me sick (they keep standing in front of people who just want to be left alone, they don't shut up and are attention whores). But the some of them are actually well respected as long as they don't force themselves on other people for attention (in previous years one was a prefect) and just be generally annoying.

This may not prove that Christians are mainly accepting gays, since people are still wary of them, but not everyone believes God has the same idea about how we use our bodies.
You're looking at this too much as a problem of religion.

'Simple as that'? What the hell are you talking about?
Even if you don't believe in God you'd still get STDs because it's unnatural and wasn't intended. Their are atheist evolutionists who are against gay marriage because it's unnatural too.

You've just turned a whole debate which just happens to mention religion into 'is there a God or not'.

bump

>>77 Gays are just as obnoxious as straights :| Just like there are obnoxious gay people, there are obnoxious straight people. They're just people. Also, it has been shown that homosexuality isn't uncommon. Many other species do have homosexual behavior.

AIDS is not more common in homosexual people in general--it is common in gay men. Most other STDs are equally common between gays and straights; however, for lesbians, it is more common to get diseases in visible places due to the type of sex they have. However, it happens equally between the two.

AIDS affects gays because of many reasons. Here are two that are easy to understand:
1. It affects men more than women in general
2. When having sex in the rear end, small veins are frequently opened. AIDS spreads the easiest through the blood.

It isn't because it is 'unnatural'. In fact, the causes are quite natural. At this point, as well, having sex in the rear end is common amongst both gays and straights, meaning that the chances of either party contracting AIDS and such is much higher between both straights and gays.

http://news.yahoo.com/court-heart-gay-marriage-law-unconstitutional-144211083.html

I love the gays. Let them get married.

>>81 i agree they have the rights.

Well, why not let them marry? I don't see why we even have to consider this. Love is love, to me at least.

Laws shouldn't prevent people from such simple things such as marriage.

>>79 Hmm... I wasn't aware of these facts. Mind you I have no idea what the hell gay people would accomplish since they can't have kids but I'm not an expert.

When I say they're annoying I mean it's because they keep using their homosexuality as an excuse (they skip class and don't do P.E because they somehow think their 'special' and 'delicate', and it's very embarrassing when they come to school functions with skirts as long their belts).
I'm not very knowledgeable about the medical aspect of things but I feel I had to say something because he seemed to think it mainly a religious problem.

People should have the right to love and marry the ones they want. Who are we to tell the next person what to do. I mean that is what this organization stands for. People have the freedom to their own entitled opinion but I would still stand with the person as long as it isn't harmful from a standpoint.

>>88 Very true. But I guess it comes from a deeper psychological reasoning. Like, these people hate homosexuals because they do not understand them, and they are scared of things they do not understand. In short, most humans are programmed by nature to be stupid and ignorant, thus homophobia.

>>88 >>89 It's really not the word that's terrible, but the incorrect usage of it. There could legitimately be a person that's scared shitless of homosexuals to the point of having a panic attack just like there's people who are scared of heights, dead things, and other stuff.

The issue lies in the fact that people use it as an excuse to hate gays. Just like any other phobia, there are not that make people who are legitimately scared of homosexuals. You ask around and you do not get that many people with homophobia. The only fears that you commonly get, that I know of, are closed spaces, heights, and the dark. Some might be scared of dead things, I'm not 100% sure on that one. There aren't legitimately that many people who have this fear of gays. You have that many people who hate it, but not fear it.

I checked and found that I haven't made my opinion on this(odd...)

I am a catholic, raised it, have been one all my life, and my family are all Catholics. So, as you can probably tell just from that, most of my family is opposed to gay marriage. I personally see nothing wrong with it, if you love someone and you are willing to make a serious commitment to them(I'm talking years, not hours/days/months), I have no problem with anyone getting married.

Some of the main arguments the government makes for not passing gay marriage is religion. But, as far as I remember religion and state are two separate things (as they should be). So, the religion argument is invalid. Another reason is that marriage should be between a man and a woman. This is a biblical reference, which is again religious, therefore should be invalid in the eyes of the state.

I realize that it is up to individual religions to decide if gay relationships/marriages are to be recognized, but the state should grant all the rights and privileges a heterosexual married couple has to any gay couple that ties the knot, including health-insurance, adoption, becoming a guardian of their partner's existing child, and to make medical decisions on their partner's behalf if they are unable.

Long post is long.
Also, >>90 This.

Read it before you assume shit......

I don't understand what makes a gay couple any different than a straight couple. It's two people who love each-other that want to recognized legally as partners. Honestly it's like buttermilk pancakes, you can put on just syrup or you can add some more butter with it. IT MAKES NO DAMN DIFFERENCE. Maybe gay marriage really isn't a good idea... Or maybe, JUST MAYBE, the lawmakers of this country have their heads up their salt-encrusted asses a little too far to realize how retarded they make themselves look when hundreds of people crowd around the little hidey-huts the laws huttle in pretending to ignore the yelling about allowing gay marriage those hundreds of enraged people are spouting.

Oh and, >>92 This. A lot.

>>92 This.

gay marriage....? that'd be weird....if that would be totally approved by everybody, the world's population would decrease...

>>91 show this to your family

>>95 It's not weird people can love whoever they want. I support gay marriage proudly. My cousins a lesbian and I love her all the same!!

>>99... How is this related?

Im assuming theyre making the assumption that all old white guys are against gay marriage

I'm laughing soo hard right now

its mainly religion based ideas... the seporation of church and goverment is just bullshit

Love is love! There shouldn't be any restrictions!! That's pretty much taking away an aspect of someones freedom :/
And homos are cool people anyway :D <3

Pic totally related.

Tis true; they are adorable.

I'm really honestly curious as to the reasons why gay marriage isn't allowed. I understand some of it is to do with religion but religion is something to be respected, not pushed onto other people and used to run their life. Most gay couples would probably raise kids better then some straight married couples who divorce after like 2 years or cheat on each other. If they love each other enough to fight for gay marriage then that in itself should be a reason to let them. Not letting them get married doesn't really change things, they can still live together and love each other. Fighting against the one right of marriage which should be a celebration of love, people are turning it into something i think is similar to when people used to have specific bars and shops for black people and white people. Racism. Discrimination. Only this time its not skin color but their choice of who they love. That's just wrong. God didn't create humans so they could discriminate and shun each other, he didn't give humans the ability to love so that others could take that away from them.

"Most gay couples would probably raise kids better then some straight married couples who divorce after like 2 years or cheat on each other."

DON'T EVEN put up shit like that without a source. Some kind of statistic done by a reliable organization. I know that will be hard to find, because the ratios of heterosexual couples with children and homosexual couples with children are vastly different.

Also, thanks to the media, whenever homosexual couples who are finally allowed to marry in certain areas of the U.S. get divorce or are found cheating, it is widely publicized and even criticized because of the short time span of the marriage.

No. I won't say or allow anyone else to say that gay couples are better at holding a marriage than heterosexuals, or vise versa.

If anything, they're both IDENTICAL. Which is why gay marriage should be allowed.

I am not kidding when I say that the best argument on this topic comes from a cartoon character, Peter Griffin.
"If gays want to get married and be miserable like the rest of us, I say we let them."

The smartest thing the fatass has ever said lol

I have not read any of the posts except for the first two or three. I just wanted to get my opinion in. 109 posts is too many to read just to do that, so I'll skip it.

I think gay marriage is fine, with religion having nothing to do with the opinion. They're people. They have a right to a real marriage. To me, a civil union says "Oh, you're gay. You can't have a big wedding ceremony like the straight people can."

So yeah. Excuse me if I screwed with the conversation that was going on. 109 posts is too many to read. Lazy, I know.

Gays should marry! Same sex same problems is what I hear.

bump

Gays should be aloud to get married

>>113 and you should learn the difference between allowed and aloud.

>>114 Perhaps he meant they should be voicing their opinion on the matter?

They should because I have quite a few gay friends.

Governments should not have a state of affairs regarding the people's social interactions/lives. By outlawing gay marriage, we are allowing the government to impede upon or social rights.

FAGS ARE GOING TO HELL!

GOD HATES ALL FAGS!

118 119 and your god loves hater im guessing

I think that "All people are equal" means All people are equal. I believe that everyone can get married to anyone. Heck, I don't care if you get married to a box of fruit roll ups, it just doesn't matter. One that note, what's wrong with homosexuality?

GOD

HATES

FAGS!

(bumping GHF off latest 3)

(bumping GHF off latest 3)

I'm going to agree with >>122 on this. In the country i live in, we started with the idea that "All men(men as in humans in general) are created equal" and to say that a man and a woman can get married but a man and a man can't isn't "equal" in my eyes. Plus, gay marriage isn't hurting anyone so why not? Before someone brings in the "children won't be raised right" argument, I'll say that they have proven to be great adoptive parents and rarely ever abuse the children in any way. All arguments against gay marriage are irrelevant in this day and age. Religion is crushed by the separation of church and state requirement of the U.S.(where i live. may not be applicable in other areas), any statistics on them abusing children have been proven wrong with real statistics saying they are great parents, and the only reason people are arguing this is because they are hard headed idiots who think they always have to be right.

>>123 - >>125 no one cares. If you have logical arguments saying that allowing gay marriage is a bad idea that has nothing to do with religion, i'm all up to arguing them. But if all you're going to do is make an ass of yourself, leave now and save yourself the humiliation of getting your ass kicked in a logical debate by 90% of the community on the BBS.

ALL FAGS WILL GO TO HELL!

NOBODY LIKES FAGS BECAUSE THAT ARE PIGFUCKERS

FAGS ARE NOT HUMAN!

>>129 here's the thing with your logic GHF. If fags will go to hell, then you will be spending a long time smelling your flesh burning, listening to your screams of pain, and wondering why you didn't just let homosexuality be and respect the choice of people.

>>131 Get a life, please. If you don't like it then why'd you read it and comment.? Save your silly thoughts for someone who actually cares.

Pst, hey everyone, especially you two above me, ignore gfh, you arent helping anything by replying to him.

>>130 you have just given the reason on why everyone hates you and doesn't give a fuck about what you say. Do you feel enlightened yet by you preaching about yourself?

I'm really happy that most of Dollars (or well, the ones I read) are defending the equal rights of gays. In Argentina there es the law for the marriage. The people I heard saying things not-in-favor of the law had terrible arguments. There is no reason to say no to that.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dEQuW2v6U2o

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dEQuW2v6U2o

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dEQuW2v6U2o

There is no god my friend if he was real there would be nosuffering

Well I certainly support gay marriage. I've read most of the comments to get a little bit more of my opinion out here. No matter who you are or what god you believe in you should be treated similarly. I saw a comment about decreasing population. Okay, it's not like everyone in the world will turn gay, and that might not necessarily happen. The population has increased over time and we've got over 7 billion people on this planet. And if you believe in God, he'll judge you himself. We don't know that if someone is gay then they'll go straight to hell or something, it hasn't been proven. Only through religion. I'm glad that there are a few accepting churches that support gay marriage, it shows that the world is becoming to be more accepting. Oh yeah, I shouldnt even reply to this but really godhatesfags? I mean I can't tell if you're trolling or not but you don't need to rub it in. But anyways, I support gay marriage, I wish I had some quotes or something to support it a little bit more but unfortunately I don't.

"If two men want to get married and be miserable like the rest of us, I'd say let them." -Peter Griffin

Totally on the boat with him.

I think with the amount of shit that we put a majority of the homosexuals through are pretty wrong and cruel. They aren't murdering, raping, stealing, but they are loving someone of the wrong gender which isn't breaking a law in the U.S. and I don't think that loving someone of the opposite gender is one of the ten commandments and we don't have trials held against same sex couples for being...same sex couples...... So I say, let 'em marry. With all the shit religiousnutsand homophobeshaveput them through, they deserve their rights to marry, right? Hetero sexuals can't really judge them, can they? We don't understand why they're feeling how they'refeeling what they're feeling. Right now, women in the U.S. are pissed as Hell that men are choosing whether they can use contraception and whether abortion should be an option for them. But homosexuals can't get the same treatment? We'retotally excluding them, ignoring their wants and rights like they were black people before the civil rights movement. I'm so surprised how many African Americans are homophobic when WE should be able to relate the best.

(Glad I finally got in order how I feel on the subject. Took me years of mulling it over to develop my opinion about this and I'm quite satisfied with it. No, I don't have a homosexual relativeor even homosexual friends. I just feel this way about it.)

Also,

>>92 & >>97

I think with the amount of shit that we put a majority of the homosexuals through are pretty wrong and cruel. They aren't murdering, raping, stealing, but they are loving someone of the wrong gender which isn't breaking a law in the U.S. and I don't think that loving someone of the opposite gender is one of the ten commandments and we don't have trials held against same sex couples for being...same sex couples...... So I say, let 'em marry. With all the shit religiousnutsand homophobeshaveput them through, they deserve their rights to marry, right? Hetero sexuals can't really judge them, can they? We don't understand why they're feeling how they'refeeling what they're feeling. Right now, women in the U.S. are pissed as Hell that men are choosing whether they can use contraception and whether abortion should be an option for them. But homosexuals can't get the same treatment? We'retotally excluding them, ignoring their wants and rights like they were black people before the civil rights movement. I'm so surprised how many African Americans are homophobic when WE should be able to relate the best.

(Glad I finally got in order how I feel on the subject. Took me years of mulling it over to develop my opinion about this and I'm quite satisfied with it. No, I don't have a homosexual relativeor even homosexual friends. I just feel this way about it.)


Also,

>>92 & >>97

because they are humans, and we are humans, so why treat them differently?

>>155 dammit.. whenever I copy and paste on this phone words keep getting mushed.

(GHF- All day long bro) I think with the amount of shit that we put a majority of the homosexuals through are pretty wrong and cruel. They aren't murdering, raping, stealing, but they are loving someone of the wrong gender which isn't breaking a law in the U.S. and I don't think that loving someone of the opposite gender is one of the ten commandments and we don't have trials held against same sex couples for being...same sex couples...... So I say, let 'em marry. With all the shit religiousnutsand homophobes have put them through, they deserve their rights to marry, right? Hetero sexuals can't really judge them, can they? We don't understand why they're feeling how they'refeeling what they're feeling. Right now, women in the U.S. are pissed as Hell that men are choosing whether they can use contraception and whether abortion should be an option for them. But homosexuals can't get the same treatment? We're totally excluding them, ignoring their wants and rights like they were black people before the civil rights movement. I'm so surprised how many African Americans are homophobic when WE should be able to relate the best.

(Glad I finally got in order how I feel on the subject. Took me years of mulling it over to develop my opinion about this and I'm quite satisfied with it. No, I don't have a homosexual relative or even homosexual friends. I just feel this way about it.)

Also,
>>92 & >>97 & >>156

>>105 This. I mean, have you ever seen a gay guy? They are so smexy! And there hair is so soft and shiny! I just want to hug them! I also had two gay friends in HS that liked each other and spent my free time trying to get them to go out. They would have made such a cute couple!

Another note, I've come up with my opinion over them before I knew anyone that was gay. I just don't see the point about bitching on someone who doesn't effect me at all, and it's not like they're hurting anyone.

WIN!

Gay Men Will Marry Your Girlfriends

GOD HATES FAGS!

refer to this >>163

Just a quick question, at risk of giving it undue attention, but has anyone made any attempt to ban him yet? I personally don't mind shitposting that much, especially when it's formulaic enough you can skim by it just by glancing. It's hardly an inconvenience when it's ineffectual. But I figure someone should shoot Reltair a quick email if it hasn't already been done.

>>168 This is not a new thing. Do you know how many times GHF has been banned? Us regulars have just decided to ignore him until he disappears again and we can live in peace adn harmony trolling newbs once more.

On a side note. You all should really watch >>163.

162 they are super crazey sexy cool. i my self have no to my knowledge any gay friends. i wouldnt care if they were either as long as post before as long as there happy. also im a girl stuck in a mans body

I really think that they should have the right to marry, because their freedom and happiness is all that matters right? i have a couple bi friends and i want the best for them, even though i myself is strait

>>105 Haha!!

But seriously, though everyone in my family is a Catholic, I don't really oppose gay marriage. They're not any different from the heterosexual couples.

>>163 wins the thread. End of discussion.

GOD HATES FAGS!

Dude >>175 you're messed up like seriously what kind of dollar are you.. Just giving the Dollars a bad name. Anyways I believe that someone loves their significant other, for who they are, not their gender.

>>179 Every time someone responds to GHF a kitten dies

Do you enjoy killing kittens, Kurofang

Sorry its just that he's reppin us poorly and honestly i believe he should be banned..

>>181 lol, i believe it's been tried.

and i thought ghf quit/left/disappeared off the face of the planet???

astin be disappoint

I'm all for it. If people want to be happy let them be happy, who are we to tell them otherwise?

http://gawker.com/5991291/the-house-across-from-westboro-baptist-is-getting-a-rainbow-pride-paint-job-right-now?utm_source=lifehacker.com&utm_medium=recirculation&utm_campaign=recirculation

bump

Since my last post on this thread was...less than truly helpful to the topic at hand, I've decided to make this post since my newfound interest and passion for the subject.

Why. The FUCK. Do people care?

Gay marriage is already legal in some states (though which states in particular evade me). I've read in the past that many believe that allowing gay marriage will make straight couples more likely to get divorced. Maybe this is just my way of thinking, but does that imply that one of the partners would prefer to be with the same gender instead of their previous spouse? In that case, I don't see the harm in a divorce.

Above are debates as to whether or not it matters due to Civil Unions providing ALMOST the same rights. ALMOST, as it is capitalized, being the key word. My argument on that point is, why must those of the homosexual community have to settle for ALMOST the same rights? Is that really fair? Perhaps this is coming from someone who does not form an opinion on one's character based on gender, but I look at people (in this instance) not as men and women, or straight or gay, but as HUMANS. People are people, regardless of the sex organs they were born with. And another thing? Sexuality isn't something that is chosen, even though roughly 60% (so I've heard from FCKH8) of Americans believe that it is. Coming from a homosexual, let me tell you; it isn't.

And before someone brings it up, I know I commented on whether or not I view people not by gender, but I mean that when judging their character as to whether or not I think they're a good person or not. I still want the d regardless.

Religion is the most common standpoint in all of homophobia, at least as far as I can see. Though I'm not religious, I am well aware of three rules that the Bible clearly presents:

1: Homosexuality is wrong

2: It is perfectly acceptable to stone people who work on Sunday

3: It's okay to sell your daughter into slavery

I'm sorry, what the fuck?

I, personally, am not a Christian (not based on Christian opinions on homosexuality, I just don't see any proof), but Christians believe that the Bible was interpreted by man even though it was "written" by God. And at the time of its interpretation, a couple thousand years ago, was interpreted with the bias and judgment that went along with the time period. And honestly? That's okay.

At the time, stoning someone to death was probably a weekly thing in some places. Selling your daughter into slavery, I say why the fuck not? Homosexuals weren't exactly welcomed then, either. But that was a LOOOOOOOONG time ago! The world changes, just like the enslavement of African Americans was once socially acceptable.

Keep in mind, I'm not trying to compare the fight for Civil Rights for Homosexuals and the fight for Civil Rights for African Americans as if they're the same thing, because they are not. The lines separating the homos and the straights are blurrier (at least I think it is), but isn't the same concept?

I always think back to something my grandmother told me; when she was in elementary school, black kids were finally allowed to attend class with her. When they were doing ring-around-the-rosy or something like that, my grandmother was forced to hold hands with a black student. She literally thought it was going to rub onto her hand. Because she was ignorant! Not stupid, don't misunderstand. Ignorance is a lack of education.

And that's exactly what homophobia stems from. A lack of knowledge on the subject.

To all homophobes (or whatever title you like to label yourself with), I suggest a movie called Prayers for Bobby, starring Sigourney Weaver (probably butchered that spelling). It tells the story of a young man, Bobby, who confides in his mother that he is gay and is driven to suicide by her religious intolerance. After his death, she looks into the topic and is now a gay rights activist. And this isn't fiction, it's based on a real story so pipe the fuck down before you start preaching on that.

This brings me back around to my original argument; why the fuck does everyone care so much? People are people!

Legal rights stemming beyond the civil union, even if not crucial to that couple in particular, are important. What do I mean by that? It's the meaning BEHIND the marriage, not the ring! It's the heart and soul that someone puts into the gold band when one drops on one knee and proposes to the person he or she wants to devote themselves to for the rest of their life. If something as simple as a bodily function like reproduction is the only argument under your belt, you are in a bad position.

Briefly touching on the whole "Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve" comment, keep in mind that if you believe that story, there were only two people on Earth then. With over six BILLION people now, that's just ridiculous. I can poke a hole in the Adam and Eve story now; different nationalities. Bam.

Kind of got off track there, but you know what I mean!

Being a bisexual myself, and having a girlfriend, I believe that gay marriage SHOULD be allowed! I mean, come the fuck on America! People don't CHOOSE their sexuality! I hate the stereotypes people make of gays too, but that's off the point of marriage. WhatnI'm saying is that... gay? Bi? Straight? What the hell does it matter?! We are all human goddamn it! Put aside your damn opinions and THINK! All people have the right to love! Whether it be one of the opposite sex or of the same sex, it's all the same! Let the gay community have ALL the same rights! Not ALMOST! We aren't animals! We are human too! So, in conclusion, gay marriage should be allowed... Izaya out.

This cannot be solved, I say that gay marriage is wrong simply because of my beliefs.

>>189 Your beliefs don't matter.

The US Gov't has state and church separated. Your religious beliefs should be the LAST thing you think of when debating something political.

>>190 To some people, those things aren't separated. To those, people, those things are the same. Crazy right?

I HATE IDIOTS AND MORONS!!!! AND CAR ALARMS GOING OFF ALL THE TIME!! I HATE GAYS AND HIPPIES AND NOW IT ALLS!!! AND I HATE IT WHEN PEOPLE TALK TO MUCH ON THE PHONE!!!

Opps... Wrong thread...

I see there nothing wrong with marrying the same sex. It's all the same as being married to a man or woman , just because they are different.Doesn't give you the right to tell them " No, you can't marry this person because you are the same sex."
So, please just stop hating on people just because we are different.

Love always, Nebojsa.

I see there nothing wrong with marrying the same sex. It's all the same as being married to a man or woman , just because they are different.Doesn't give you the right to tell them " No, you can't marry this person because you are the same sex."
So, please just stop hating on people just because we are different.

Love always, Nebojsa.

Love is love be it straight or gay, and thats enough to say they should marry. God people can legally get their pets married, and thats just weird. gay people are people with lovers and they should have every right that a man and a woman have.

GOD

HATES

FAGS!

Oh yay GodHatesFags is back.
I propose we head down to the gay bar to celebrate.

>>200 Agreed.

I think they should in America because it's the land of the free. It's in our declaration of independence that you have the unalienable right of the pursuit of happiness, and that's being taken away because they can't marry someone that makes them happy. It's on our Bill of Rights that you have the freedom of religion, but you're not giving them the freedom of religion when you're forcing your religion on them and not letting them marry because they're gay.

This whole fucking nation was founded on the freedom of religion, now we're being the same hypocritical bastards that England was so many years ago!

>>201 i completely agree with you about the freedom part and i personally think that it's stupid of people to argue against it. The only flaw in your arguement is the argument of freedom of religion. Would you agree with a religion that says a man should have more than one wife? Or on a more extreme level, a religion that required a sacrifice? Religion is a complex and fragile topic. If you put freedom to practice any religion over all the other laws, all a mass murderer has to do to get out of trouble is say "my religion required it". I agree with your argument in this debate, but if we start putting freedom over law and order, we open up a whole new can of worms.

^

I can't believe that such a matter is debatable. As LeighaMoscove said, taking away someone's right to marry another, no matter whom it may be, is removing their right of the pursuit of happiness. There are plenty of cases I've seen where a same-sex couple has much more love than what society considers to be a 'normal' relationship. Marriage is about love, not just reproduction...so why shouldn't they be able to get married?

Gays shouldn't be allowed to get married.
It's against the Jesus.
No body fucks with the Jesus.

>>205 I gave Jesus a bj, he's cool with it.

>>204 thank you for see that point, I mean this matter is global but in the USA to have gay rights banned and to say "we are an equal nation.... Except for gays" is such under redundant bullshit that I still choose to sing a random song in place of the national anthem. I find the very idea that humanity is still treating an individual's difference as a means to create legislation against their differences. It's got to stop and it will if anyone can pin point the logic. Got it memorized?

I don't have problem with it. If two men or two women have a lasting love for each other, who the hell am I to intervene?

But I do believe that there is an evident problem with it, many people are afraid to accept what they can't comprehend.

A part of me wonders though...
I hope this doesn't come out cynical, but does anyone who is against gay marriage and reported such on this thread even go to Church? I'm pretty sure its common knowledge that the number of people has dramatically dropped over the years, notably my generation. But seriously...do you all even take your religion seriously? I ask because it kinda seems like if you're just some guy up there spamming GOD or Jesus all over the place, that you only care about religion when it impacts these sorts of things. You would use it as your excuse to define things such as this as immoral, etc.

But with that in mind, I'd also like to point out that i'm Christian,I believe in God, but I don't go to church anymore. So I guess that makes me a hypocrite, but what are ya gonna do? I still find it pretty funny.

Green Tea ~

Also one other thing, when the head of government in a state passes any law that is anti gay because of religion is the moment that person has violated the constitution. One man/woman's view of their religious beliefs should not legislate the lives of the people. That's way past over stepping your rights. That's utter garbage that ONE guy's ideas dictate the rights of millions.

Ok. Beware as my big mouth opens up here. I have a lot of points to make.

1. I don't get marraige. Plain and simple. I don't really get love in a romantic sense and am not interested in it. I've never been in love. Not really looking to be. And marraige just seems like a formality to me.

2. That getting said, I'm going to seem like I'm completely contradicting myself here. Ok. Here we go:

Gay marraige is something I feel very strongly about. Love is love. Ok? I may not get love, but I understand it's significance and I know it when I see it. When two people love each other, it shouldn't matter about their sexual orientation, just like it shouldn't matter their skin color. People who say homosexuals don't deserve the same rights as us for no other reason than the fact that they were gay are no better than those who were saying blacks and women shouldn't have equal rights because of their skin colour and their gender.

Neither God nor Jesus said that he hated gays. Yes, God made Adam and Eve and not Adam and Steve, but that was when the Earth needed to be populated. The world has over 6 billion people now. And sorry to burst everyone's bubble, but not all gays are child molesters and rapists. Sure, you have your share of gay perverts, but you have even more heterosexual perverts. Gays have romantic feelings just like the rest of us. They love someone for who they are. They don't just want to screw everything in sight.

Now, I'm not saying you have to like it or agree with it, and the Bible does say that it is wrong, granted. But you don't need to go around harassing gays and trying to "cure" them. Just.. Keep your views to yourself. Don't be prejudice. It's none of your business. It does not affect you. Just because your children know gays exist doesn't mean they'll turn gay.

There was someone up there who I'm too lazy to go and find that obviously disagreed with it, but kept their mouth shut. I deeply respect them.

What do I think? I don't think it matters. Let people be themselves. As long as they are a good person underneath their sexual orientation, I'll treat them just like anyone else, which includes marraige rights.

>>206 I'm for it and all, but Axel, seriously? That was too much.
Couldn't you tell Reggie was kidding? I'll respect your equal rights for marriage and in general, being who you are and were meant to be. And you respect my religion. Deal?

>>212 was not posting a argumentative response, was posting a random thought that popped into my head.

>>213 Was I talking to you?

Or are you both Axel and 11th Doctor?

What if heterosexual marriage was illegal? Besides, I thought Jesus and/or God loved everyone. I'm not religious at all (though I do study religion and psychology), but why should you deny people to love each other. If people can't have gay marriage that means that they'll just try to conform with society and will end up marrying the opposite gender (people did that in the old days). Sorry, Straight Sam but Homo Henry just married the love of your life!

Because I know religion is not something you guys want to hear about in a debate on gay marriage and whether it should be legalised or not, I will state 2 proposals that are non-religious as to why homosexual marriage would not be good... or... inconsistent with beliefs or whatever.

Reason #1:
If you are an evolutionist (assuming there are any present) then it does not make sense for you to belief homosexuality in general is based on genetics or the mind. If an evolutionist beliefs that a species grows slowly over time in ways that allow for it's species to thrive and survive, homosexuality does not make any sense. A homosexual creature cannot extend it's species if it is not fertilizing an egg. Because of this, if you are an evolutionist, I'd propose you choose which is more valuable to you - your worldview or homosexuality. I'm not attacking you, just asking you to think.

Reason #2:
If anyone knows why the Roman and Greek empire fell, then you can deduce where I am headed. These nations stood strong and basically ruled the Western world for what seemed like forever, but that is not the case. They did end, and they aren't ruling the western world now, and why is that?
Well, one idea - which is probably one of many factors to their downfall - is that the people began to question the ethics and morals of the founding fathers of their nation. They began to wonder if what they were doing was right, if the laws decreed were in fact just, and if the men in command were capable of their duties (Sound a lot like America, maybe?)
What I'm getting at is the big picture of progressivism as a whole. Abortion, medicare, and gay marriage issues all propose very progressive ideas on how to rule the nation, and even though they do not directly question the ethics and morals of our founding fathers in America, if you were to follow the line forward in time, you could forsee the end of the U.S. within the next 50 years do to an internal rebellion.
If that sounds very far fetched, might I place Ayn Rand to the table? Alright, here is where it gets deeper. Progressivism will ultimately lead to objectivism. Yes. This is possible due to the ideals proposed by new laws and political leaders. Objectivism, though works in small groups of people, does not work in vast groups of people.
Objectivism is the idea that ones own ideas are what drives him and therefore justifies his actions. Though the first half starts out correct, the second half is bogus. That means a sadistic murderer rapists is justified. OBVIOUSLY he is not but that's why the idea is broken. In small SANE groups of people it makes sense, but in an entire nation where we can have sane people and insane rapists people or whatever we begin to see how the idea breaks apart.
The idea here is that the more progressive America becomes, the closer Objectivism is. If the nation becomes Objectivist, I'd like to direct you to the world of Rapture in Bioshock. Though it is a game, it is an incredible representation of what Objectivism could ultimately do.

Reason #3:
I don't remember. I had it before number 2 but I forget now.

So yeah. those are 2 non-religious statements against homosexuality and gay marriage.
I do believe that America will allow for homosexual marriage, it's inevitable, but it is possible it could lead to a sour patch. That isn't entirely bad though, because things start and they end and that's how the world works.
Things happen, and that's that.

So yeah, hope this was insightful and I really hope I didn't anger anyone. If you have any questions I can try my best to respond to them!

Okay, I am going to address your 2 points head on. They were intelligent but fucking stupid at the same time.

1) Believing in evolution does not mean worshipping it, I don't think you get the concept. We believe that creatures evolve from 'survival of the fittest' over a long time when there is pressure on their numbers. The weak die so the strong genes get passed on. That doesn't mean we base our lives off evolution, we do not need to pass one genes right now, hell, the world is overpopulated as it is. There is no problem with homosexuality because it has nothing to do with human evolution. Technically, humans are already 'thriving', we have the leniency to grant a basic right to those that are slightly different to us. You generalised a scientific belief into a close-minded religious concept and for that, fuck you.

2) The Roman empire did not fall due to doubt of the government, I don't know what books you read but the fall was actually due to over expansion and a rush of refugees, fleeing from the Mongol horde that was raiding to the east. Those tribes out of disparity formed together and began raiding and taking land from the weakened Roman empire, the local populous had nothing to do with the downfall (though its true that it shared many similarities to current America). Due to this, in no way was homosexuality related to Rome collapsing, in fact, it was one of the first major cultures that openly frowned on homosexuals. Sparta from Greece treated it as normal to have sex with your closest soldier partner, Japan often had homosexual orgies within dojos and Egypt never even mentioned it.

Those weren't questions, I just needed to set some things straight.

Gays should have the right to be married because Jesus promotes love in all his teachings, he doesn't limit it. I think that God specifically creates people that belong with each other, and that if you are gay that just means he made your person the same sex as you. *shrugs* If the topic has already changed on this thread, sorry I didn't notice because I'm not reading the comments above ^^'

>>197>>198>>199
Keep trying, I will stop you.

>>219 Stop addressing him...

^

>>219 Dude i get what you're trying to do and your picture is mos def true, but you can't hope GHF will actually ever get some sense or stop being a hater.

>>222 I know, this is method, he's a troll and bunch of other terrible things. He will spam hate and just continue. If I piss him off constantly he will eventually rage quit. I will attack him at every turn to show him one fact.
I will not sit back and let him think he's right. I'll show him no one will believe him. I will break him. I've clearly got a grudge and I'm glad because this is fun for me.

>>223 damn I missed so many key words! Uh that always happens when I'm rage venting.

>>223 He won't rage quit. Trust me, I used to think that way too.

It didn't end well .__.

>>225 Meh. Let the kiddies have fun. Honestly, if we all ignore him and bump over his posts he will most definitely leave. I think if we make it clear how everyone hates him he'll go. Because no matter how bad someone wants to troll, eventually feeling hated from all sides will get to him.

Anyway, he's been gone for a while. Just stop talking about him yeah?

More on gay rights!

>>225 That's why we cold shoulder him and not even acknowledge his posts. Simple, and he'll stop and get booted from the site.

>>223 Are you being serious right now? Stop and think. He's trolling. This means he doesn't think he's right, and his sole purpose for doing this is to piss you off, which he's clearly doing. If you two want to have a pissing contest, please take it somewhere else because we don't want to see all that bullshit here. We've learned to ignore GHF, and you should do the same.

>>228 ignoring is surrendering to him.

Anyway, something that is very nice is Massachusetts is the first state in the USA that legalized marriage there and it's never been overturned. Makes me regret moving out of there. Honestly bad move. Ohio is working to change the laws but its a not getting enough support to get a big victory yet. I've been to about 5 events and I really feel more people need to join the cause. Funny thing I also noticed, there is always a guy dressed like Waldo at every pride event.

THE DOLLARS HATES FAGS!

FAGS ARE NOT DOLLAR MEMBERS!

WE WILL KILL ALL THE FAGS!

>>236 Burrrrrrn

Normally, I would stay out of these things, buuuut.....

>>236 AHAHAHA made me giggle... That picture is hilarious....

GOD

HATES

FAGS!

Bump bitch

Nice try bump

Bump

>>229 You're aware that the more you reply, the more he'll post, right? Stop being stupid and think...

The more I frustrate him the sooner he will give up. I'm doing what ever it takes to silence this waste of humanity.

thank you!^ you manke me not despise humanity

thank you!^ you make me not despise humanity

>>246 That's the god damned point. You WON'T frustrate him. By doing what you're doing now, you're giving him the reaction he desires. That's what he wants. It's called feeding a troll, and the longer you do it, the longer he'll be a problem.

>>249 1) Ignoring him isnt really an option. Because other people read (Like people who havent been here long enough) and then they get angry and "feed the troll".
2) Before 11th was here, didn't we ignore him? For months? He's not leaving. Bumping over his bullshit is the only option, until Reltair assigns a moderator only to ban GHF whenever they see him.

I'd still prefer to just not take him seriously, enjoy the fact I am superior to somebody and ridicule everything he says.

Sorry, BBS was fucking up for me and created a bunch of dupes.

I bump threads now, bumping is cool. :D

>>254 Let everyone do what the hell we want as long as we stop talking about him. Really? Can't we just enjoy the peaceful times he's not here and actually talk about the topic of the thread?

>>251 A while ago, I noticed he wasn't here as much. I saw the occasional post, but nothing on the scale that it is now. And now that someone thinks they can flame him enough to leave, he's a lot more active.

>>258 *facepalm* His more frequent appearance didn't start with 11th, OK?

Moving on people.

So some talks between Obama and African leaders might head down south because in certain countries, being homosexual is illegal and even punished (by death, I think). And Obama and Democrats seem real iffy on the issue, but basically they support it more than Republicans do.

Apparently, American Christian missionaries have gone into African nations in support of their discriminative laws. God, it's hard being Christian nowadays.

I AM GHF! YOU CAN'T STOP ME! SEND ALL THE EMAILS YOU WANT TO THAT MOTHER FUCKING ADMIN! HE CAN'T SAVE YOU BECAUSE I RULE THE DOLLARS! I AM INVINCESABAL! >: )

Bump

Bump, it's spelled invincible you jack ass

Bump

I get what 11th is doing. I mean it's hard enough dealing with the senior members' whiplash and hate replies, but why do I also have to put up with rude people, who can't keep their hate to themselves, and gay bashers. I mean I already deal with that enough in my life. But when i come "home", to the BBS I feel that I should be able to be comfortable, happy, and able to leave harsh reality outside my door and away from my computer screen.

Before I say anything there's a really cool book called "Debating Same-Sex Marriage" that literally debates instead of having people yell at each other.

OK, now for my opinion. I completely understand why people are against it; considering the fact that since God, or whoever, created humans so we could breed via the opposite sex. Therefore, it's considered weird or unnatural because we simply weren't made to have intercourse with the same sex. While homosexuals can't really breed, they are also found in a LOT of animal kingdoms. Specifically, monkeys.

There's also the idea that it just doesn't follow a religions code and practice. I also get that but religion shouldn't take part in government. And marriage is not a single religions practice; it's part of government and society. It's silly to think religion even has a part in government, because if you pay attention to history you'll realize how 1. it never worked well in the first place and 2. USA was made specifically on the basis of religious freedom.

Then, lastly, the whole idea that gays can't raise a family. Pfft, because heterosexuals always raise their kids well. My parents had a "loving" fight and then a "loving" divorce.

I think the main reason for the Bible saying that homosexuals shouldn't be married, or are wrong or anything, is because of the fact that they can't breed. And back in the day of the writing of the Bible, people needed to breed. We didn't have as many humans as we did back then, but now, we don't HAVE to have everyone out there breeding. We already have billions of humans. It's not like just because gays start marrying that the human population will decline anyway - what? Did you think that gays had sex with the opposite sex before they could get married? Most likely they probably never even romantically touched someone of the opposite sex. Plus, with our awesome medicine, people will one day be able to live till 200 years old and everywhere will be as crowded as China. Even with gays.

Sorry it was long. ._.

>>265 I'm doing my best to make you see only the good of the Dollars. I'm sorry you have to see the dark side of the site. It's going to get better.

>>265 The Dollars is a discussion forum, not the Shangri-La of forums, don't be expecting heaven here.

THE DOLLARS HATE FAGS!

FAGS ARE NOT MEMBERS

FANS ARE BEASTS!

FAGS ARE NOT WELCOMED HERE!

DEAR FAGS YOU DON'T BELONG HERE YOU ARE NOT WELCOMED HERE YOU ARE NOT DOLLAR MEMBERS AND WE HATE YOU! GO TO THIS SITE: http://www.chat-avenue.com/gaychat.html YOU BELONG WITH YOUR TYPE FAGS ARE NOT ALLOWED HERE SO GET OUT! AND NEVER EVER COME HERE!

The Dollars.

DEAR FAGS YOU DON'T BELONG HERE YOU ARE NOT WELCOMED HERE YOU ARE NOT DOLLAR MEMBERS AND WE HATE YOU! GO TO THIS SITE: http://www.chat-avenue.com/gaychat.html YOU BELONG WITH YOUR TYPE FAGS ARE NOT ALLOWED HERE SO GET OUT! AND NEVER EVER COME HERE!The Dollars.

DEAR FAGS YOU DON'T BELONG HERE YOU ARE NOT WELCOMED HERE YOU ARE NOT DOLLAR MEMBERS AND WE HATE YOU! GO TO THIS SITE: http://www.chat-avenue.com/gaychat.html YOU BELONG WITH YOUR TYPE FAGS ARE NOT ALLOWED HERE SO GET OUT! AND NEVER EVER COME HERE!The Dollars.

>>280 good bumping there bro

>>281 you arent supposed to aknowledge the bump

Can we just focus on what this thread is about? So much chaos in only a few days... That's the internet for you, lol.

Again, I don't have any problem with gay marriage. What exactly makes it wrong for gays to marry (not on a religious standpoint, because most of those reasons can be contradicted or something...)? Idk. Again, I'm not saying you have to like it, but don't hold someone below you like that, which is basically what it is. We are all God's children (or whatever deity you wish to believe in if you do believe in one). And we are equal.... So.. Yeah. That's all I have to say. :3

>>283...That sounded very condescending. It's pretty hard to be Christian and support gay marriage without me getting shit from both sides, yeah?
There's no contradiction about it, the Bible has several times said, over and over, that homosexuality is a sin. But does he hate them for it?
No.
Can they get married if they want to?
Yes.
And if God has a problem with gay marriage being legalized, then He will expressly show it, but until then, letting them have equal rights would be great. It's sad that we have to "let them", like giving permission, like "yeah, you are normal enough to be treated like the rest of us."

>>284 plus then governments could stop pissing away shit loads of money just to keep gay rights from being passed. Honestly that's what's it really coming to is money being wasted on making inequality. It's wasteful to spend thousands on a law that is total bull.

>>285 What're u talking about?

>>285 ....wut?

^

>>284 No, no, no. You misunderstood. I was very tired when I typed that, so that's completely understandable. I just meant that many of the reasons that people say God and Jesus hate gays can be contradicted. I never said that the Bible didn't say it was a sin. I'm Christian and support gay marraige as well. My father doesn't, so it's very difficult for me to be able to talk about it because he doesn't believe in it for many reasons that don't make sense to me. (he doesn't care about homosexuality, but he doesn't like gay marraige.) I'm sorry if it came out condescending, I didn't mean it to. Again, I was just very tired and came down with a very bad illness when I typed it. ^.^" I agree with you, 99.5%.