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Amanda Todd's and Rehtaeh Parsons' parents in Winnipeg to help prevent cyber-bullying (65)

1 Name: Create_Suspense : 2013-11-18 11:12 ID:1XNg3u9h (Image: 620x348 jpg, 27 kb) [Del]

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A national movement to cyber-bullying takes centre stage in Winnipeg this week.

The parents of Rehtaeh Parsons and the mother of Amanda Todd are in the city as part of Bullying Awareness Week.
On Monday morning they will receive an award from the child rights group, Beyond Borders.
Todd's mother will also be speaking at a Winnipeg school on Tuesday.

Amanda Todd and Rehtaeh Parsons were victims of cyberbullying and were tormented online before commiting suicide.

A national movement to help prevent cyber-bullying takes centre stage in Winnipeg this week. The parents of Rehtaeh Parsons and the mother of Amanda Todd are in the city as part of Bullying Awareness Week.

Amanda Todd was from last year, was is it still going on?
Did someobdy suicide from bullying again?

2 Name: Inuhakka !.5xqXJfr96 : 2013-11-18 11:56 ID:Az458s/G [Del]

Please provide links.

3 Name: Create_Suspense : 2013-11-18 12:07 ID:18GX6o/p [Del]

Will do, on further posts

4 Name: Chreggome : 2013-11-19 05:42 ID:DAsg6Yf+ [Del]

The best way to prevent cyber bullying?
Be a fucking parent and get your kids off the electronic babysitter.
This nation disgusts me with all their finger pointing.
It's always someone else's fault.

5 Name: Solace !o0GOqY0U0w : 2013-11-19 05:53 ID:grWwuys3 [Del]

Wait, why are the parents getting an award for this? Their kid died, that is really sad; every other parent who had a kid died didn't get an award, what makes them a special case? The fact that they got famous off it?

I don't like this recent shift from Kony to cyber-bullying, people just always have to complain about something without doing anything.

6 Name: Colorless S. : 2013-11-19 11:30 ID:70O+165J [Del]

I hate the fact that thy reward parents who had a child who did this in their own will...
Actually it I hate her. Sure, she gets depressed.But,that was her fault. She decided to share that picture of herself. She decided to send it. Ugh. People with worse problems don't get rewarded that their life is a whole lot worse.
...Congratulations to her parents. "Suicidal of the week, guys!" I have nothing against suicidals or anything.I was one too but you know, life. It changes. Lets just hope they celebrate the others as well for surviving bullying.

7 Name: Inuhakka !.5xqXJfr96 : 2013-11-19 13:39 ID:Az458s/G [Del]

>>6 She did not decide to be viciously attacked because of it. I agree no award should have been given, but saying anyone that isn't having the worst life in the world doesn't deserve a decent one? Come on.

8 Name: Hatash!HATStoI1IE : 2013-11-19 18:11 ID:eYQiRAGY [Del]

Face.Fucking.Palm. It was her fault for doing it, and OP should apply a LINK to add to this.
/sage until that happens.

9 Name: Kuro Shi : 2013-11-20 06:10 ID:yBiORQoO [Del]

>>6 I agree. Honestly there are a lot of people who are in much worse conditions then she was and a lot of them keep on living but the ones who did die don't become the hottest topic for everyone and their grandmother to talk about.

10 Name: KTP : 2013-11-22 07:42 ID:DY28Lxl9 [Del]

As much as I understand the bullying issue and the pain that bullying can bring in a close nit environment I cannot stand the glorification that people like Todd got. It sets this glorious standard that people will give a shit about you when you are gone. For all the reasons I ever considered the quick slit to the end of the race usually it was a consideration for attention. This glorifies the idea that people will give you that attention.

11 Post deleted by user.

12 Name: Brenden : 2013-11-22 23:16 ID:PTG0U8Z+ [Del]

Well bullying is an inevitable it will afflict everyone in some aspect of their life, to think people could be so malicious it's beyond my comprehenstion.

13 Name: kasi : 2013-11-28 18:42 ID:TH46pv0q [Del]

I was bulled on the playground and it hurt soooo bad I HATE BULLYING

14 Name: Thiamor !ZPE1Q6VxaY : 2013-11-28 23:36 ID:Azu00eUl [Del]

I know it hurts to be bullied, but Amanda Todd actually caused a lot of the shirt herself.

15 Name: Xephlrek!9RNNck.4fo : 2013-11-29 14:30 ID:eHgSl4Yh [Del]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gmx4MUY7a7M

16 Name: Andyfire : 2013-11-30 04:10 ID:w43O9KlJ [Del]

I get it...being bullied sucks. I was bullied my entire time in middle school thats why I hate bullys, but going to the point of killing yourself is never right. nothing is worth dying over. that is also why I hate suicide too. They need to realize their is absolutly no meaning in dying. For every bad day you have it just makes the good ones a whole lot better.

17 Name: Bubbles : 2013-11-30 14:19 ID:mY5AixPw (Image: 720x720 jpg, 70 kb) [Del]

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The whole amanda todd thing was cause by amanda herself. Not trying to be rude or mean, but she desevered what she got from bullying because she brought all this on to herself. She posted several nude pictures on the internet and had a habit of stealing boyfriends or starting fights in school.

18 Name: kanra : 2013-11-30 15:47 ID:5n6hVfNi [Del]

i hate bullies..i actually count the number of times that i cry or one of my friends gets hurt by a bully..and its over thirty for two months..

proposal..

to anyone that gets bullied..save a friend if theyre being bullied,it doesnt even have to be a friend ^^ just help anyone and over run those bullies!! we will unify the goodness!! we can do it if we try!!

19 Name: Lady : 2013-11-30 15:57 ID:lfJ5RIOj [Del]

>>17 Well...Everything that had happened to her to get her there was a series of bad choices. I mean she let a guy solicit her on the internet by showing her boobies to him, that said man (A GROWN ASS MAN) proceeded to screenshot and show it to everyone. Then she flirted and fucked the wrong boy, got her ass beat by the girlfriend, also harassed gf and friends. All of this, somehow, not expecting any consequences because she was a privileged teenager and didn't really think about her actions.

So yes she was responsible, but at the same time all these people involved with her death could've just not been perverted and assholes.

20 Name: Chreggome : 2013-12-01 02:09 ID:tIzqHMft [Del]

>>19 Or her parents could have tried this new concept called parenting.

21 Name: ಠ_ಠ-- Lone-Wolf-kyle- !.WOLFPmOzY : 2013-12-01 06:21 ID:LUSJYsrz [Del]

>>20 true

This is really sad... and It's sad to say but it's kinda her own fault she got cyber bullied because of all mistakes she made, but I don't think cyber bullying is fully responsible for her committing suicide, cause she could just go offline. She probably knew she couldn't undo any of her mistakes and coming going on living with it so she choose suicide. I believe she should of tried to talk to someone about it, consoles, parents some trusted person....

22 Name: Kienna : 2013-12-01 13:58 ID:Ticu7oEW [Del]

I thoroughly agree with 19>>. Amanda Todd was a dumb-ass brat who got exactly what was coming to her and thought it'd be a good idea to throw a pity-party for herself beforehand. She was a teenaged idiot who should have known better. An idiot, through and through. She showed herself off like an internet tramp to someone she barely knew. What the fuck did you THINK was going to happen, kiddo?! Oh, wait....she didn't think at all, did she? Because if she had, she wouldn't have pulled something so stupid.

23 Name: zero : 2013-12-02 21:54 ID:hrhmqxQn [Del]

People are never very well nice when they think that they have no effect in the world i think after watching this vidio that it was wrong for the man and kids to follow her to every runing place but she should have learned from her mistakes.we have no right to say she got what she diserved be cause then we diserve the same you are not her and cant change her nor can we say her death wasnt a bad thing cause then were no better then a killer in prison we all make mistakes and should treat eachother the way we want to be treated but that will never happen because of people who well are and no one who stands up and says enough is enough heck check serverail events of bulling you see all the kid s why dont they stop it its a human issue yours and mine

24 Name: Solace !o0GOqY0U0w : 2013-12-02 22:21 ID:mwRSJdUN [Del]

The day grammar died.

25 Name: sky :3 : 2013-12-03 09:40 ID:9UD/Ef6d [Del]

May you rest in peace comrade may you find peace in the next world. Im sorry I hope didn't offend any other religion by saying tho sorry if i did.

26 Name: Kazehachi!V/vi9gujn6 : 2013-12-03 11:53 ID:M0FhIbSR [Del]

>>24 Oh how the mighty have fallen.

Nothing is going to "stop" cyber-bulling except to tell your kids to not have opinions or be egotistical asshats. But, y'know, you can only do so much. This effort is rather futile in my opinion.

27 Name: Inuhakka !CatnippiFk : 2013-12-03 12:59 ID:rNE6NV/Z [Del]

>>26 You'd be surprised how effective good parenting can be. Of course, you would not be surprised at how often good parenting actually happens...

28 Name: freelancer : 2013-12-04 08:14 ID:EQtLZPU1 [Del]

i have to say that a human taking a life is bad but when its your life that YOUR TAKING, does that give you the right to take it?its sad how dark and heartless the rest of the world is but, hey thats reality for you. i hate this and all of those who hate the world stop hateing and start finding a way from this hell we call earth.

29 Name: freelancer : 2013-12-04 08:16 ID:EQtLZPU1 [Del]

suicide is not on your side.no i fear dark hearts are the only thing left on this earth pure darkness and no light. sad human and a life only one could blame not you the people of this world got me!

30 Name: freelancer : 2013-12-05 11:09 ID:EQtLZPU1 [Del]

i morn all who die dont let death go unheard of.

31 Name: Kazehachi!V/vi9gujn6 : 2013-12-05 20:19 ID:zy7kyS9e [Del]

>>27 Yeah, it depends on the parents, I suppose. The least the kids can do for themselves in the case of those parents who fucked up in my opinion is for the kids who have that resolve of not wanting to end up like their parents. But of course that can divert to another topic entirely.

32 Name: shadows : 2013-12-08 18:58 ID:uQgYO74e [Del]

i think that killing your self is a cowardly thing to do, but it is by far more cowardly to torment someone so much that they want to kill themselves

33 Name: freelancer : 2013-12-09 07:38 ID:EQtLZPU1 [Del]

life is not a right to take away not yours not mine and not the owners.

34 Name: freelancer : 2013-12-09 08:03 ID:EQtLZPU1 [Del]

it has nothing to do with parients sometimes i wish you could understand what goes through their head. i... i can't let this happen agian in my life don't let the depression spreed.

35 Name: Face : 2013-12-09 09:40 ID:+pNO2Rlb [Del]

>>7 in addition to sharing the picture, she had sex with a girl's boyfriend and streamed nude came of herself on wowtv afterwards, after having been extorted for it.

I agree with you wholeheartedly. The girl, regardless of what she's done, did not need to die. People tend to take their passions to the extreme and go to the point of near crucifying anyone that did wrong. This girl messed up big time, and people around her used this as an excuse to attack her as a person, instead of correcting her or rebuking her. The man who did this was just as wrong, but he didnt deserve the same level of punishment. A problem with the world today is that people tend to take their safety for granted. They'll do anything they want to because they believe that it won't happen to them. Because of this level of thinking, a young girl is dead and a man is going to live with that guilt forever. Was Amanda Todd really a slut? No. If you asked any of your parents what their college life was like, I could assure you they knew people who did worse. She's a human and regardless of her faults, her life was as sacred as all the others. I grieved for her when I heard news that she passed away, but even Moreso to the unsung who commit suicide every day. This isn't the dollar's obligation. As human beings, people need to recognize that all people are made equal. Correction where it belongs and punishment where it belongs. Do it to your hearts content if you, yourself, cannot be convicted by it. No, the world won't be a better place, but at least it won't be filled with hypocrites.

36 Name: zero : 2013-12-12 19:12 ID:hrhmqxQn [Del]

Yes face your right but i hate to think that with all these people who were around her no body said any thing in her defence even more people on our site with its whole model were her for others said some awfill things about here wich is no diffrent from the people who killed her if i could just inspire one person to speak up when some one is being picked on stand up for what is right maby it wouldnt happen again but you know what the sad part is face

37 Name: zero : 2013-12-12 19:17 ID:hrhmqxQn [Del]

That in the real world my words dont mean crap to any one on this site kids will still be picked on and no one will care just so long as it isnt them there ok with it or will join in any one on this site will disagree with me is a lier they wouldnt stand up for there words online so face im asking you am i the only one here who does stand for what they believe no matter the issue or what happends to me?

38 Name: Laughing Man : 2013-12-12 22:06 ID:I/jYsl3S [Del]

Does anyone else think that it might have been the parents fault as well? I mean, think about it. They could have stopped Amanda from taking nude photos of herself. They also could have taught her that stealing is wrong, no matter what form it's in. So if Amanda's Mom didn't teach her right from wrong, why is she being praised? For leading her daughter, unintentionally, to her possible grave?

39 Name: freelancer : 2013-12-13 13:35 ID:EQtLZPU1 [Del]

i agree with you zero. i try to help best i can. thanks for standing up for this lost soul.

40 Name: Xephlrek!9RNNck.4fo : 2013-12-13 13:40 ID:NogPMfXo [Del]

Amanda Todd wanted to die, so she died.
Kill yourself if you want to.

41 Name: Chreggome : 2013-12-13 17:53 ID:TINdhp/8 [Del]

>>40 Holy shit.
Now that's an American attitude.

I believe in freedom and it doesn't get more free than this.

42 Name: bleu : 2013-12-13 19:10 ID:sC6H/N00 [Del]

who says we don't have the right to kill are selves if we want to I mean it's are lives and its are choice if we want to continue are sad and depressing lives

43 Name: Thiamor !ZPE1Q6VxaY : 2013-12-13 19:43 ID:BE3LRi9D [Del]

>>42
Only idiots or nut cases commit suicide and should at least be tested before offing themselves.

44 Name: freelancer : 2013-12-16 07:59 ID:EQtLZPU1 [Del]

idoits.

45 Name: Halo : 2013-12-16 08:06 ID:DWjwUzGi [Del]

I think a lot of these people are attention seekers, but I am not saying cyber bullying is okay it's just that instead letting the world know you want to die talk to someone about it.

46 Name: Hinatot!g9LBK6FGBI : 2013-12-16 13:58 ID:asos7k7P [Del]

I'm really sad to see the negative attention directed at the suicide victims here. Suicide has nothing to do with if someone is in the worse situation or not- it has to do with the fact that they were pushed to the point, by others themselves or their own biology, that they took their own life because they saw it as their only option. I don't think the parents should be getting awards (though I do appreciate the work they have done since their children's suicides to try to stop future suicides), but I don't think people should ever criticize people for committing suicide because they were not in the worst possible situation.

47 Name: Thiamor !ZPE1Q6VxaY : 2013-12-17 01:46 ID:u8yWqyJ1 [Del]

>>46

I will always criticize if the people are idiots. If they put themselves into that situation, it's their own fault. Not bullies, not anyone else.

For instance Amanda Todd wouldn't have been bullied if she didn't do anything to bring it about. IE, showing boobs online and sleeping around. I don't show any pity towards people like her.

48 Name: Inuhakka !u4InuhakKA : 2013-12-17 07:18 ID:yTVAuLOk [Del]

>>47

This kind of argument sounds similar to the arguments that rape is the victims fault. Assuming you don't believe that, why is it different with bullying? If the victims of rape didn't dress the way they did, they might not have been raped. Why is being bullied different?

49 Name: Solace !o0GOqY0U0w : 2013-12-17 07:28 ID:UadGgiSO [Del]

>>48 A question of social standards still exists. If a woman walked in to a room full of convicted criminals, wearing nothing but stars over her nipples, did she still not have a part in causing it? Todd made some extremely poor decisions and performed some heavy duty low standards stuff. In that regard, why is it then still completely the bullies fault? Sure, they shouldn't have acted like such utter dicks, but there is no need to glorify her. If she was just acting like a normal, slutty teenager, they were just acting like normal, ruthless teenagers. In that regard, due to the fact that what lead to the suicide was largely a result of terrible decisions she made in the past, yes it is partly her fault. That is why, although she shouldn't be looked down upon for committing suicide, she shouldn't be pinned as a struggling, lovely victim either. If she was bullied for a reason such as being weedy, or being a ginger, that would be completely different. From what I've heard of her life, though, she would have been one of those kinds of people that treat people like geeks or gingers as lesser beings.

50 Name: Inuhakka !u4InuhakKA : 2013-12-17 07:45 ID:yTVAuLOk [Del]

>>49 Look at it this way.

Her actions warranted consequences, yes. No one is really arguing nothing should have happened. But, doing what she did shouldn't result in attacks. She didn't attack anyone else, or hurt anyone else, or really do anything that affected anyone else at all. All that should have happened is she should have been shunned sexually, since she doesn't seem to take it seriously.

Her suicide was largely a result of attacks the resulted from decisions she made in the past. I would argue those attacks were completely unwarranted based on her actions, so I'd say it is mostly the bullies fault.

51 Name: Hinatot!g9LBK6FGBI : 2013-12-17 08:43 ID:asos7k7P [Del]

The fact remains that a young girl killed herself and is seen by many as having it coming. Though she was not completely innocent, she was still a child. Everyone makes mistakes in their lives, some worse than others. I'm not saying she (or anyone) is completely innocent, but for people to say she had it coming, that a child who made some bad decisions and who still potentially had the ability to fix things deserved to kill herself, is horrible.

Again, I'm not saying she is innocent- I'm saying people are awful for thinking someone killing themselves out of depression and bullying, whether they brought it upon themselves or not. We shouldn't see her as a saint-like figure, I agree, but we do need to understand the depth of this and realize that this happens every day all over the world, for all sorts of reasons, and that it is a serious and grave matter.

52 Post deleted by user.

53 Name: L !KgP8oz7Dk2 : 2013-12-17 09:51 ID:GwyQPCDJ [Del]

I was going to say a bunch of smart ass things but I can't come up with anything for this kind of stupidity...

54 Name: Hinatot!g9LBK6FGBI : 2013-12-17 10:31 ID:asos7k7P [Del]

>>53 That is a pretty weak argument, "I can't come up with anything." It reminds me a bit of that commercial in Futurama where the argument was "we'd give you reasons but we can't think of them" or something. And though I do think people are entitled to their opinions, I think one must be purposefully ignorant to believe that children killing themselves is ok.

I apologize if I come off as rude, I don't mean to anger anyone, I'm just pretty passionate about this topic. Please know I'm just pretty into this debate!

55 Name: L !KgP8oz7Dk2 : 2013-12-17 11:08 ID:GwyQPCDJ [Del]

>>54 I'm glad somebody got my refrence, I take no offence in any way.

56 Name: BarabiSama !!C8QPa1Mt : 2013-12-17 16:14 ID:2x4YdWBO [Del]

Speaking from the perspective of someone who was ruthlessly bullied far beyond what she has been through for reasons much less, and having spoken to students from her school previously, I have to say that Todd got what she deserved in the kindest way possible. She was known for being a bully herself; she was sexually promiscuous and abused other female students at her school by getting inbetween their relationships and putting them down based on their appearances and skills. She was more likely a bully herself than any of the students who her parents are speaking against. Thus, when she released a picture of herself nude online, the people who she had hurt jumped on the chance to get their payback ten fold.

What goes around, comes around, and by the time it comes back around, it has gained enough velocity to knock you off your feet. She fell hard. Then, she found that she could not take what she dished, so she thought the best way to get away from the people who bullied her... was to brag about her hardships on a website they all had full access to. Finally, she offed herself when she realize they were there, too, and that the internet really doesn't care about how you feel anyway.

There are two morals to this story: 1) Don't let your emotionally disturbed kids have a webcam and/or internet access. 2) Just don't be a cunt. If you're not a cunt, nobody will be a cunt back. You'll make more friends. You'll have people to back you up when other cunts come around. You won't have to kill yourself because you'll have someone to talk to other than the assholes that roam the internet.

Also, my tone relates to how tired I am of people hiding others' true nature just because they're dead. The book 'Elsewhere' put it perfectly in the scene where the main character was watching her funeral. Her parents claimed she was a straight A student with all sorts of friends when she was barely passing and only knew one or two people, and nobody argued with it because it's 'disrespectful to disrespect the dead'. But let's be honest here - because a possible cunt died, we elevated her to sainthood and then put down students who were the real victims. Isn't it worse to disrespect the living than the dead? There is so much wrong with this case and situation.

Yes, her struggle was real. Yes, she had a hard time. Her parents are struggling just as much, yes, but so are the parents of every other dead little girl and boy. Are we giving them awards? No, because they're not turning their childrens' deaths into a cause that doesn't exist. Bullying on the internet is bullshit. That is coming from the mouth of someone who has been called every horrible name under the sun through online chats by both strangers and people from my school. Her parents should have kept an eye on her in the first place. They should have taught her to press the little red X in the top right corner when someone is being mean. But they didn't. So now we're awarding these parents for not teaching their daughter how to protect herself nor being close enough with her for her to talk to them about what was going on and then running around to other schools and giving a speech about it?

I'm happy they're at least trying to help educate others about it to try to ignore their own shortcomings, and sure, give them an award. But they oughta stop referring to their child as the only victim. If you want to really educate someone, and if you want those kids to take you seriously, then you need to take your crude bias and throw it as far away as possible. The more real you are, the more it will hit home for these other kids whose parents never taught them what the little red X does. They shouldn't be getting any awards, in my opinion, until they really grasp what their kid put other students at that school through and understand why what happened, happened how it did.

57 Name: Inuhakka !u4InuhakKA : 2013-12-18 13:26 ID:yTVAuLOk [Del]

>>56 I never heard about Todd attacking other students so I am glad you brought that up. In that case, my previous points about not deserving attacks back based on pictures are invalid.

Unfortunately, suicide does not always indicate immeasurable pain or actual bullying. I thought I was getting bullied in Grade 6, and tried to kill myself several times, only to realize years later that it was people joking around with me. I was going through real pain, but the same circumstances would not yield that same level of emotional pain with anyone else.

I also don't think it was purely cyberbullying. Cyberbullying is a term people invented so they could convince themselves technology is the enemy and it's somehow difficult now to do anything about bullying. There's no such thing as pure cyberbullying. In order for it to work, the victim has to keep going online and looking at it, which is entirely their choice, which indicates an already existing problem.

However, even if she did indeed attack other students in the way that you said, it still doesn't change two things:

1. None of this would have happened if Todd was a guy. A guy acts like a dick, sleeps around, posts pictures of his dick, nobody would attack him on the same scale, I guarantee you that.

2. She did not deserve to die. "I have to say that Todd got what she deserved...". She is dead. Do you seriously believe she deserved to die? If she did all this and then got run over by a car, people would be far less likely to say she deserved it, simply because she did not deserve to die. She may very well have deserved backlash for her attacks and bad choices, but not death.

You must remember even though you have talked to people at her school and possibly researched the incident, no one knows what happened. Everyone knows something, no one knows everything. You don't know what problems she had at home. I know it seems simple to just 'click the red X' as you have said, but I am sure if you were bullied you know the pain does not end when you click the X.

Yes, ideally parents would teach their kids, no one would have problems at home and humans would be great people. It isn't an ideal world. Those things don't always or even often happen. That does not make every shitty thing that happens to anyone somehow unavoidable or 'just life'. That is a bunch of bullshit.

58 Name: BarabiSama !!C8QPa1Mt : 2013-12-18 19:47 ID:X0F+IGSW [Del]

>>57

1. Yup. That's how sexism works, and the world has a lot of it. If there was a way to magically press the "Equality" button, trust me, I would. But we can't just press a button and change the social standard.

2. I was referring to the bullying that she got back, not her death itself. I am pro-"do what you want with your body". If you want to die, then kill yourself. You're an asshole for doing it, but I wouldn't stop you unless you were trying to do it in a public place that had the chance to traumatize someone who isn't related to you. She couldn't handle what she got, so she decided to kill herself. I don't mean that she deserved to die per se; I never wish pain upon anyone unless it is in a joking manner. A life was snuffed out, and that's sad, but she chose to do so herself. The bullying she got back was what she deserved - what she chose to do to herself was just her choice and personal reaction.

And yes, the pain does end when you click the red X. Know why? Because it never happens again. The problem with bullying and the pain related to it has to do with the repetitiveness of the assaults and the continuing fear of being attacked, whether verbally or physically. But you have full control over people attacking you online. Not only can you close out of the website, but you can stop visiting it altogether. You can block people who you don't like on most sites so you don't see anything they say. There are so many ways to get around this. You wouldn't believe the number of people I know who complain about "being bullied" and then keep those people on their friends lists on Facebook or another site and just put up with their shit. Why don't they block them? Because they want the attention of it. They want to be able to show their friends the mean messages they got so that their friends pity them and go, "There, there, honey, it's okay..."

And you know what? It's fine to want attention. But when it gets to a point where you want to kill yourself, is the attention really worth more than your sanity? No, I don't know what was happening at home. She might not have been getting the attention she wanted/needed. Everyone's moralities are different, as are their wants and needs, as well as their reactions to things that happen. She probably thought she needed the attention without realizing that it was affecting her in more of a negative regard than a positive one.

No matter what he mindset was, she chose to keep getting made fun of online even though it made her feel bad, and instead of doing what she could to stop it, she played it out. She played it out worse and worse until she broke herself so badly that she felt the need to kill herself. Everything that she did was her own fault. Maybe her mentality was the fault of her parents or the lifestyle she grew up in, or maybe she had a mental defect, or maybe she just 'worked that way' without anything external causing it - regardless, in the end, she made those choices on her own, and she should not be revered as a hero when she did everything she could wrong in the situations that were presented to her.

59 Name: Inuhakka !u4InuhakKA : 2013-12-18 21:56 ID:yTVAuLOk [Del]

>>58 1. I realize now that was sort of out of the blue and not really related. Whoops.

2. I've never heard that before, doing it for the attention. What I was going for was that the bullying online is not the only problem. My whole point is it doesn't really become a problem unless something else is going on, for instance problems at home or with school. If someone started spamming my email, calling me a whore or something stupid, it wouldn't effect me, because the rest of my life is pretty much fine. However, in Todd's case (also evident given she was a bully) there was more likely than not something else happening to her that we may never know about. That doesn't make what she did right, but it does explain why this whole situation got so messed up.

Wanting attention from it explains why some people would keep going back on. I can't believe that so many people with so many different backgrounds that have all commit suicide from 'cyberbullying' would all think like this, though. To me, it seems like more of an addiction. They don't really know how to get out, so they just keep going back. It's like when someone says your name in a conversation, and you can't quite hear what else they said. That intense urge to know, perhaps curiosity, it what I think may be the cause. I am not sure if that makes sense.

It's sort of unrealistic to expect people to just 'stay offline' if they are getting bullied, though. Why should the person have to change their life, instead of someone taking care of the bully? Doesn't that mean the bully has won? It's like asking them to stay off of a particular street, because that's where a bully likes to hang out. Why aren't those people charged with uttering death threats and assault? Those are real life crimes that people really get charged for.

I guess I still think it's not really her fault. She kept going back on, she sent that picture, she even bullied herself, but the people who attacked her did so without her control. They alone controlled their actions when they attacked her and they alone are responsible for their actions. To me, I see it like rape. People think it's ridiculous when a women showing skin is 'asking for it', so why do people think differently about bullying? When can we say that it isn't the victim's fault, but maybe the people that literally attacked the victim themselves?

I know I'm naive; I think the world is fairly black and white. People are responsible for their actions, etc. Maybe it's just too complicated for me to understand.

60 Name: BarabiSama !!C8QPa1Mt : 2013-12-19 05:06 ID:2x4YdWBO [Del]

>>59 You don't have to stay offline completely, but don't go back to that site/just block that person if you can't defend yourself. The same goes for the street thing. If you don't have the strength to protect yourself nor the guts to go to the police about it, then of course you should avoid going down that street. Going down that street when there are a bunch of gang members who want you dead is suicide itself, to me, because you know the dangers and decide to risk it anyway. They'd still be in the wrong for hurting you, but you're still an idiot for risking it. Every risk has its price; if that price is common knowledge and you do it anyway, you don't have a right to blame anyone else.

Ex- A company just made 5 billion dollars on a new product. So they decide to take that money to invest in a new product that they haven't really researched properly, knowing they might lose that money since it's not at a solid state yet, but if it turns out they invested at the right time, they'll make hundreds of billions. So if they do end up losing that money because the product they invested in does goes under, can they blame those who created the product and demand their money back? Of course not; they knew the risk.

The same goes for rape victims, in a way. There's a huge difference between wearing something slutty outside versus walking into a room of convicted rapists with little stars on your nipples and a thong. Walking outside in a short skirt isn't a 'danger' and most girls know how to protect themselves in that regard. But when you're in the second situation, you know that there is a risk of something happening that you're not going to appreciate. No, it doesn't mean that it's 'ok' if you get raped, and it doesn't mean that the rapists should get off free of charge. Imagine if those kids online were the rapists in that situation. She knows if she goes and posts more videos online or goes back to the sites she was bullied on that she's going to get made fun of more. But knowing the risk, she does it anyway, probably going through the youtube comments on her video fishing for the few compliments she got. But she knows that for every one compliment she gets, there might be ten nasty comments before it - but she looks anyway. And if those kids are the rapists, then in that regard, she was the rapist herself at some point. Just because she was later raped, does that mean she should be free of all her previous charges? No, of course not. That's like saying that if a robber with a warrant was stolen from that he should be exempt from court and held up in the public's eye as the victim.

And putting those arguments aside, I'm going to make a comment on the skin thing - it's not a matter of 'asking for it'. I used to get honked at and followed all the time when I was walking around, and after some guy tried to get me in his car (well, after a few times of that happening), I finally flipped shit and stopped wearing anything even resembling a skirt for the rest of that year despite having been fairly modest in dress in the first place. But even when I walked out in sweatpants and a heavy jacket without brushing my hair, nothing changed. That's because it's the idea of a girl being alone that matters. What you're wearing doesn't affect it at all unless the guy is looking for a certain 'type'. Chance are, anyway, why would a rapist want a slut? If he wants to hurt and injure a girl while he does her, he wouldn't want someone who might end up liking it. (/shot)

I know that social stigma with the whole slutshaming thing exists, but again, that's just sexist bullshit. And chances are, even if someone says, "Oh, she was asking for it," with something as dramatic as rape, they probably wouldn't hold too close to that opinion offline (people will say anything online since they know they're safe behind their figurative firewall).

61 Name: Inuhakka !u4InuhakKA : 2013-12-19 07:39 ID:yTVAuLOk [Del]

>>60 Where do you draw the line? Wearing a skirt isn't too dangerous, but wearing stars and a thong is. Where exactly does it become the victim's fault? There doesn't seem to be any way to objectively draw a line without it becoming stupid, so to me, even if a girl walks down a street naked, anybody who does something is doing it of their own accord. It's their choice. It's the same with bullying. Where do you draw the line there? Being sexually promiscuous is okay, but call people names and it's your fault. You really can't draw a line that makes sense. Nobody is forcing anyone to bully anyone. Rape is never the victim's fault, and neither is bullying.

You use the example of investing, so it seems you believe these crimes are unavoidable. In reality there's no one forcing anyone to do anything wrong, it's their own choice. I see now why you would blame the victim. 'Yes, the attackers attacked and they were wrong to do so, but that's what humans do, and you knew that, so it's your fault too.' I guess I just wholeheartedly disagree with you there and there's nothing I can do about that.

About the skin thing: I would say you are right that not dressing like a 'slut' won't give you magic protection powers against men. More often than not, rape is about power, not sex.

62 Name: BarabiSama !!yk2MqVeu : 2013-12-19 08:36 ID:rprbBxJx [Del]

>>61 I didn't say these crimes are unavoidable, but you can't assume they're not going to happen. You shouldn't assume they will happen, either, but you oughta have concern in any of these circumstances. If you don't exercise caution when you know that the situation has the potential to go downhill, if something bad happens, you are also somewhat at fault. I specifically said that those who don't exercise caution are never the only ones at fault. It's not "just their fault" that they are attacked or lose their money - but their lack of caution definitely played a part in it. People are cruel. People will do bad things. That's just how it is.

Also, investing isn't an 'unavoidable' example at all. It is constantly changing, and no one knows for sure what will happen. But if you give the market and the companies you're investing in too much credit and assume it's going to go well or blatantly pretend those risks don't exist, you're probably going to end up losing a lot of your money. I think you are a little too trusting in that way. Yeah, they could not do it. They shouldn't do it. But there is a high possibility that they will do it. It's nothing personal; there are just some situations where things are more prone to happen. People are mean. People are cruel. By nature, people take advantage of what is there. If you put yourself in a situation where you can be taken advantage of, you probably will be. If you aren't careful, they might just happen to you, positive or negative.

It's not black and white. There's no specific line where you can say it's this person's fault or that person's fault because most things are at the fault of a collection of people and varied mistakes and bad judgements rather than due to one stupid choice, but those circumstances don't make that stupid choice any less stupid.

63 Name: Inuhakka !.5xqXJfr96 : 2013-12-19 09:13 ID:GYzHvsbg [Del]

>>62 I didn't mean you thought every instance was unavoidable, but you do think that the existence of attacks is unavoidable. You say 'People will do bad things', but this isn't because of some higher power or some fact of life. They do bad things of their own accord and it is their choice. I do not believe you can blame any attack on any victim because of this 'fact'. This is what I was trying to say we seem to disagree on.

It is not black and white, certainly. It isn't one person's fault. However, our society is absolutely obsessed with there being one thing to blame, hence cyberbullying. We are fighting against technology and Facebook, not our own inherent nature to hurt people. It's easier that way.

Also, with the market example, you lose money when people don't buy your product because it is bad. With the people example, you get hurt because people hurt you. People not buying things that suck is more unavoidable than people hurting people, in my eyes. Probably sounds like garbage to you, but it's what I believe.

This is kind of awkward, since everything you say is really logical and true, and I am somehow arguing against it because I disagree. Maybe I am arguing for us to uphold the ideals of a society that doesn't exist yet, but maybe I think we have to do that to get somewhere better as a civilization.

64 Name: BarabiSama !!C8QPa1Mt : 2013-12-19 14:27 ID:UlYpl7EJ [Del]

>>63 Yes, the existence of being attacked is unavoidable. Yes, people doing bad things is a fact of life. It is going to happen regardless in one instance or another. I have a feeling your mindset is on par with someone who believes that world peace and everyone loving one another is possible. It's lovely, and I would adore for it to be so, but it's just not possible. Unless we kill off all but a select few people who unconsciously have continued love towards everything, bad things are going to happen in the world. It's a fact of life that bad people exist.

You're a romantic. I'm a realist. That's probably why this portion of the debate isn't going anywhere, which is alright. It's hard to have an debate reliant on a lack of bias when the two debating have very different morals.

And no, you lose money on the market from things much more than the quality of your product. Sometimes even a slight rumor can cause a market to crash (hence the SM crash just before the Great Depression). It's often not the fault of a bad product. Sometimes it wasn't advertised well. Sometimes they just don't have enough investors to finish researching or creating the product. There are all sorts of nuances that go along with it, just like this situation.

And you don't get hurt just because people want to hurt you. There has to be a reason for that want, that desire. Sometimes it's a psychological problem on their end, but often times it is our own fault. I will sit here and admit that every time I was bullied, it was my own fault in a twisted way. I didn't dress how normal girls dressed. I talked how I wanted to talk. I was an individual, even though I knew it wasn't going to be appreciated in our society and would cause people to talk bad about me and pull shit that never should have happened. Does that change that the people who harassed me are complete dickwads? No. But turning around and blaming everyone else for something that you had a great deal of control over isn't okay. Playing the 100% innocent victim in a situation like this is wrong. I could have worn makeup, dressed scantily, and gone out with every guy who asked me out. But I chose not to. That choice is in part what caused me to be 'bullied'. It was the right choice, but you really need to take social standings into consideration. My own morals are not the same as society's, but society's are the ones that apply in an argument of fault.

Bullying and abuse is a part of life. If you don't want to face it, then either steer clear of those who are cruel or don't do something that could cause you to be made fun of. Those of us who are willing to dress how we want either put up with or fight against the abuse because we know its our choice to be in that situation and are willing to stick up for ourselves anyway. When you can't accept that something you've done has caused your situation and blame it on all the 'bullies' and everyone who is mean to you, though, people like this are born. People who give up halfway through are created out of this idea that the attacker is always in the wrong. They see themselves at the victims at every corner, and they can't get out of this pit of victimhood because everyone who feels sorry for them is telling them that they 'have no control over it' when they damn well have control over most of what happens to them. They don't realize that they made that choice and thus have no grounds to stand up for themselves on. They have no true argument to back up their side of the debate and thus lose the ability to fight on their own behalf.

Of course, that applies to standard bullying only. Bullying is a regular thing that you're going to face at every turn in your life. You're going to have mean bosses. You're going to have coworkers who spread rumours about you. It's not right, but it'll happen at some point in your life unless you are so cautious about it that you sacrifice your own unique self to be so and/or just naturally have a personality that everyone loves. Again, although you may not agree with me, it's just how people are - it's just how life is. Yes, there should be resources to help students and people who are bullied and take it too harshly. But this whole movement that has now moved to internet conversations is killing any potential of these kids being able to take even light criticism in their futures.

Rape, on the other hand, isn't something normal. It's not usual. It's not legal. It isn't an integrated part of our society. Criminal charges should always be pressed, regardless of the genders of the attacker/victim. But if you are in an extreme situation like stated above where you know there is an extremely high chance of you getting raped, and if you chose to put yourself in that situation without any extenuating circumstances, then you damn well had a small sliver of the fault of what happened. It doesn't mean they are any less in the wrong for attacking you - it just means that, in hindsight, what happened could have been avoided if you made the right choices.

A man running a construction site decides to have his men working on the lower balconies of a tall building while another crew is installing the beams higher up, optimistically assuming that nobody would get hurt since the chances were so low. An hour later when he goes to check on the progress of the balcony, a beam falls from the crane and hits one of the men, killing him. It is easy to write this off as an accident. If you feel the need to put blame on everything, though, there is quite a bit of blame here. First of all, the man shouldn't have said that they should go work that day when construction was going on in the upper levels; he oughta have told the owner of the land that they would reschedule it. Second, the men shouldn't have agreed to work under those circumstances. Third, the crane handler should have been more careful. So one third of the fault is on the victim since he decided to work in that situation. Yes, he needed the money. So he prioritized his money over his safety. That was his choice, and for it, he ended up dead. He's not the only one at fault, but he shares the blame since it was still his choice to go up there.

In the end... coulda, shoulda, woulda. We can't change the past or what happened. We all have mistakes and regrets that we learn from in the future. There is really no reason to be pointing fingers, because for that blame to be valid, the fault still has to split up into all its related parts. I pointed the finger at Todd's parents, but when you think about it, both Todd and the bullies had a large part in it as well.

65 Name: RollyPolly !/1Km.pPZ3M : 2013-12-20 08:37 ID:v0v7BAkj [Del]

>>63

Seriously? People hurting other people isn't a verifiable fact? Yes, because fuck statistics.

You could just say the same thing about entropy. It doesn't instantly happen, but everything always tends towards disorder. And before you say 'But entropy is proven science!', so are humans. There are entire scientific fields dedicated to the study of humans. Humans will act the same.

Sure, if everyone stopped hurting each other, we'd have world peace. But that is about as technically possible as the entropy of a particular system just staying the same for millions of years. Technically, entropy only has to increase as time goes on over-all, so yes technically it could stay the same for 4 seconds or 100 million years. But, wait for it, it fucking doesn't. There is nothing stopping it from staying the same for a long time, except hundreds of years of observations.

Humans are no different. Saying they could just stop hurting each other is ignoring the facts. We've been hurting each other for thousands of years. At any one of those times, anyone could have just not attacked anyone. But they didn't. Amanda Todd knew this, especially being a bully herself, so what happened is her fault. She didn't deserve to be attacked because of naked pictures, she deserved to be attacked because of all the other shit she did. Do you think people were just going to wait around until she did something that was actually bad enough to deserve being abused? If so, that is also ignoring the facts.

Should we just stop using magnets because they've worked up until now, but since we don't actually understand how they work, they could just stop working? No, and we shouldn't just assume humans can stop fighting each other. Stop being so naive.