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Chardon, Ohio, High School Shooting on 02.27.12; Four Wounded, One Dead (28)

1 Name: divineraccoon !lOJ5tap5Nk : 2012-02-27 12:55 ID:tzXWzXw9 [Del]

I'm not going to go into details, but at 7:30am today a gunman entered a high school and opened fire. As of now, it is reported that 4 students were injured and 1 is pronounced dead. The suspect has been detained, but the mainstream media has yet to release the alleged gunman's identify. Supposedly, his name is TJ Lane. Please follow the links below, provide additional information and links as this progresses. Ohio Dollars, you might want to take note of this event.

Links:
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/02/27/ohio-high-school-on-lockdown-after-reports-shooting/
http://abcnews.go.com/US/chardon-high-school-shooting-injured-custody/story?id=15799815#.T0vNJYfDeK4
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57385711/1-dead-in-ohio-school-shooting-suspect-detained/
http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2012/02/chardon_student_identifies_sho.html
http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/02/27/10517706-official-1-dead-4-hurt-in-ohio-school-shooting
http://www.punditpress.com/2012/02/chardon-ohio-shooter-identified-as-tj.html
http://www.punditpress.com/2012/02/tj-lane-facebook-found.html

2 Name: Umbra Serpens !T1rQ1UNnww : 2012-02-27 13:36 ID:/QCwzD9n [Del]

It's pretty sad that I feel like my school might be next for something like this. Just remember, rush the attacker. the sooner they go down, the fewer people get hurt.

3 Name: soadsod!Qh2K/inldk : 2012-02-27 14:34 ID:IUPQH3Ve (Image: 250x188 jpg, 22 kb) [Del]

src/1330374868899.jpg: 250x188, 22 kb
>>2
Hopefully from behind, and try to get both of your hands on their forearm/wrist. Or go for a full nelson (see example)
But since their arms are still kind of free, push them to the ground.
Really, just make sure they cant use the arm with the firearm easily, hopefully another Dollar or a good Samaritan will come to your aid.
This is assuming you do rush them, as much as I would like to say I'd do something I would probably as chicken shit scared as the kids made it sound like they were.

4 Name: Umbra Serpens !T1rQ1UNnww : 2012-02-27 17:03 ID:LWnMNCMf [Del]

I'd only go for a rush if I had two semi-athletic students backing me up. I have some guts, but there is no way I would charge a gunman as a one-man-army with no more than a ballpoint pen.

5 Name: Anonymous : 2012-02-27 19:43 ID:cNU0Sl+5 [Del]

>>2>>3 if u get behind em, another good way to detain em besides the full nelson is the rear naked choke. place their adams apple directly in the crook of your elbow and pull up as hard as u can and lock your hands so they cant break the hold or get their hands under the choke. they will have a maximum of proably 15 to 20 secs before passin out.

6 Name: Rieg !gACPh3k8u. : 2012-02-28 08:51 ID:XpiLrdN7 [Del]

>>5 Just sayin, what if they shoot you while your doing this?

7 Name: divineraccoon !lOJ5tap5Nk : 2012-02-28 09:05 ID:tzXWzXw9 [Del]

::UPDATED INFO/LINKS::
T.J. Lane has officially been declared the suspected gunman and is in custody. Two students have been confirmed as dead, while three others are still alive but injured. This was not a random shooting; this was planned with four of the victims being targets and one being an unintentional victim who fell into the line of fire. Please see the links below for more information. If you come across additional information as the story unfolds, please share.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chardon_High_School_shooting

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2107152/Chardon-High-School-shooting-Bullied-Ohio-student-arrested-killing-1-injuring-4.html

http://globalgrind.com/news/tj-lane-alleged-gunmen-chardon-high-school-shooting-letter-die-all-you-details

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=142677781

http://gawker.com/t'j'-lane/

http://www2.nbc4i.com/news/2012/feb/28/7/school-day-ohio-brings-shootings-death-ar-947024/

http://www.cleveland.com/chardon-shooting/index.ssf/2012/02/joy_rickers_chardon_high_senio.html

8 Name: Umbra Serpens !T1rQ1UNnww : 2012-02-28 09:20 ID:/QCwzD9n [Del]

>>7 Thank you.

>>6 That's why you don't pull this shit alone. And if you do, make sure they don't notice you behind them.

9 Name: Kumo!NC09qbtR1Q : 2012-02-28 09:27 ID:K5fwFkqu [Del]

>>7 That's stupid. "Oh, he wrote a poem/short story type thing that was an obscure reference about some higher being that ends with 'Die, all of you' that would have normally been considered a pretty good piece of work had he not gone and killed two kids, that should have been a warning sign the he was going to definitely go and kill some people!"

Seriously,Poetry and short stories are a way to vent and make you feel better, just because this asshole went and killed people anyways because it apparently didn't work for him doesn't automatically make a person a cold blooded killer who needs psychotic evaluation before he goes and stabs our babies in the face.

Not only that, but c'mon, the letter/poem is SO FUCKING OBSCURE! it takes place IN THE RENAISSANCE, talking about the SELFISHNESS OF THE WORLD, where THE CASTLE REPRESENTING THE CORRUPTION OF THEIR DETACHMENT FROM THE REST OF THE WORLD eventually pretty much collapses around them and kills them all! There is nothing that hints at all that he would go and kill some people at a random high school, and there should be no reason this letter should be viewed as an act of aggression or his psychotic mentality, in fact, it's a revolutionary's dream poem and looking back at it I enjoy it quite a lot.

THat isn't to say that I support his decision to go and kill people AT ALL, his actions were UNACCEPTABLE AND HE DESERVES TO GO TO JAIL, but if THIS qualifies as a warning sign, i fear for the world of literature.

10 Name: lapizlazuilwolf : 2012-02-28 10:48 ID:8NOfqstk [Del]

2 are dead.

11 Name: divineraccoon !lOJ5tap5Nk : 2012-02-28 11:59 ID:tzXWzXw9 [Del]

>>9
Personally, I don't think his poem WAS a warning sign. I think it COULD have been a POTENTIAL warning sign. Someone holding a rock is a POTENTIAL warning sign that they MIGHT throw it through a window, because it is now an option, but we cannot conclude that BECAUSE someone is holding a rock that they WILL throw it through a window. Just the same, signs of depression, aggravation, distress, etc, are POTENTIAL signs of an array of POSSIBLE deviant behavior, but they are NOT CLEAR SIGNS and shouldn't be treated as such.

His poem/status/thing fits the puzzle only after-the-fact, not before. This is often the case with after-the-fact; in retrospect, things seem to make sense and be obvious, whereas before-the-fact they are not and COULD be nothing at all. We shouldn't jump to conclusions and profile individuals due to literary works, artistic pieces or subcultural fashion. But statistics are stereotypical and often semi-accurate.

The reason I conclude that this was not a random shooting is because he [reportedly so far] did not shoot at other students, just the four that were at the table he approached that morning. There is no clear motive yet, just speculation.

The articles linked so far state that he was likely bullied and treated as an outcast, whether that be self-inflicted or due to the prejudices and actions of others. I'm about to say something that may not bode well with many and is quite cold, but looking at this objectively, his actions in shooting those other kids is somewhat expected. Society warrants this type of reaction from individuals like the suspected gunman in this instance. His decision was not correct, but I don't lay the blame solely on him. Troubled youth are irrational, and it is only so long before frustration outweighs rationality. Bullying, alienation, etc just asks for these tragedies to happen. It is unfortunate, but after-the-fact, is any of it surprising from an objective outlook? Not at all, in my opinion. People, especially kids, can only be pushed so far. So does that justify their actions? No. Does it explain their actions? Somewhat, yes. What can be done about it? Hard to say, but a collective effort to prevent bullying and alienation could reduce the chances of something like this happening.

Also, I understand that shootings aren't always the same. Sometimes they are random. Sometimes the motive does not stem from anger or depression. Sometimes it stems from mental instability. Sometimes it just stems from bloodlust. But in this specific instance, it seems to stem from [the gunman's perspective] self-justified vengeance.

12 Name: Kumo!NC09qbtR1Q : 2012-02-28 13:40 ID:K5fwFkqu [Del]

>>11 I know that after the fact it was a sign and I agree with pretty much everything you said, but if this incident makes it so that every single poem/letter/thing that even mentions killing someone whether or not they are fictional a red light for people to begin thinking you are possibly psycho, I will be pissed for a good number of reasons.

13 Name: divineraccoon !lOJ5tap5Nk : 2012-02-28 14:39 ID:tzXWzXw9 [Del]

>>12
Unfortunately, that is how things already are, I think. It is just a matter of whether or not they make a stink about each of those poems/letters/statuses/posts/things or just wave it off as nothing. I think it should cause for some attention to be yielded JUST IN CASE, but I don't think anything more than an effort to gain perspective and a frame of reference on that individual and their work should happen. Gaining that understanding and perspective is important anyway, that is how art/literature/music should be treated. As it applies here, it will also help everyone see whether an individual is inclined to violence or not. Quietly investigate and observe and perhaps be wary, but don't ignore it and don't overreact to it.

Also

14 Name: divineraccoon !lOJ5tap5Nk : 2012-02-28 14:40 ID:tzXWzXw9 [Del]

15 Name: Kumo!NC09qbtR1Q : 2012-02-28 14:44 ID:K5fwFkqu [Del]

>>14 well, not too surprising considering he shot 3 of them in the head...

16 Name: divineraccoon !lOJ5tap5Nk : 2012-02-29 13:41 ID:UEKDDIDE [Del]

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/02/29/10539156-oh-my-god-911-calls-from-school-shooting

17 Name: divineraccoon !lOJ5tap5Nk : 2012-02-29 13:41 ID:UEKDDIDE [Del]

http://news.yahoo.com/coach-chased-ohio-shooter-doesnt-feel-hero-031919664.html

18 Name: divineraccoon !lOJ5tap5Nk : 2012-03-01 17:26 ID:UEKDDIDE [Del]

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/03/01/deadline-looms-for-charges-in-ohio-high-school-shooting/

19 Name: nice guy : 2012-03-01 21:17 ID:9ykhCdE3 [Del]

why the hell is everyone shooting up there schools these days.

20 Name: Kumo!NC09qbtR1Q : 2012-03-01 21:35 ID:VOxHh/Tt [Del]

>>19 Because of the sex scenes in Mass Effect. that's why. or at least what most people will blame it on. well, that or something equally as stupid.

21 Name: SaintXavier : 2012-03-02 07:03 ID:Td3OT4yS [Del]

Actuly one more died in the hospital.

22 Name: Umbra Serpens !T1rQ1UNnww : 2012-03-02 09:44 ID:/QCwzD9n [Del]

>>19 Because deer hunting isn't as fun?

But in all seriousness, I'm concerned for how easy it is for any student to aquire a gun. Shit, if I wanted, I could have a shotgun at my doorstep in a week, or a pistol in less than 6 hours. Personally, I wish we could go back to when swords and shit were the weapons of choice. Everyone had one, most fights were fair unless you were dealing with nobility. Someone pulls a dagger in school, they'll have a hundred swords pointed at them in seconds. But here I go on another tangent. Fuck.

Alright, but yeah- I don't like how easy it is for a student to gain access to firearms.

The reasons behind the shootings?

Insanity
Home life
Love life
Revenge on a student for some other stupid reason
Fun
Curiosity
And probably a few more.

23 Name: divineraccoon !lOJ5tap5Nk : 2012-03-07 08:36 ID:tzXWzXw9 [Del]

::UPDATE::
http://abcnews.go.com/US/ohio-school-shooting-victim-dating-tj-lanes-girlfriend/story?id=15834378#.T1dtmIfDeK4

It seems that the investigators, prosecution and parents of the victims are singing a different song than the students, friends and peers of the shooter and the victims.

24 Name: Xaiver!qnt3P1NBvU : 2012-03-08 00:47 ID:HKXhnPcy [Del]

Bumping for orgnization.

25 Name: A-X-E-L : 2012-03-09 06:20 ID:ejk6Wz3U [Del]

I attend a school that was near by, i am shocked more by the way ohio is mourning. Every where i looked the day after the shooting i kept seeing "We will never forget" signs and it had been literaly one day after those signs went up. they put an entire month of mourning and did it in 3 days. kinda not a good idea of geting past something

26 Name: Thesonofthoth : 2012-03-11 17:11 ID:/TT4sWv5 [Del]

Bump

27 Name: soadsod!Qh2K/inldk : 2012-03-12 00:18 ID:aJO+t5// [Del]

>>11
It's called the hindsight phenomenon, or hindsight bias.
Here's a non-Wikipedia link (not that it matters)

http://psychology.about.com/od/hindex/g/hindsight-bias.htm

>>25
That's because it is very easy to personalize those people. Allow me to copy and paste something from my psychology book.
(Sorry about the wall of text, but it's relevant and I chuckle each time I read it.)


Innocent victims trigger more compassion if personalized.
In a week when a soon-forgotten earthquake in Iran
kills 3,000 people, one small boy dies, trapped in a well
shaft in Italy, and the whole world grieves. Concerned
that the projected death statistics of a nuclear war are
impersonal to the point of being incomprehensible,
international law professor Roger Fisher proposed a way
to personalize the victims:
It so happens that a young man, usually a navy
officer, accompanies the president wherever he
goes. This young man has a black attachè case
which contains the codes that are needed to fire
nuclear weapons.
I can see the president at a staff meeting
considering nuclear war as an abstract question.
He might conclude, “On SIOP Plan One, the
decision is affi rmative. Communicate the Alpha
line XYZ.” Such jargon keeps what is involved at
a distance.
My suggestion, then, is quite simple. Put that
needed code number in a little capsule and
implant that capsule right next to the heart of a
volunteer. The volunteer will carry with him a big,
heavy butcher knife as he accompanies the president.
If ever the president wants to fi re nuclear
weapons, the only way he can do so is by first,
with his own hands, killing one human being.
“George,” the president would say, “I’m sorry,
but tens of millions must die.” The president then
would have to look at someone and realize what
death is—what an innocent death is. Blood on the
White House carpet: it’s reality brought home.

When I suggested this to friends in the Pentagon,
they said, “My God, that’s terrible. Having to kill someone
would distort the president’s judgment. He might
never push the button.”

Source: Adapted from “Preventing Nuclear War” by Roger
Fisher, Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists, March 1981, pp. 11–17.

28 Name: divineraccoon !lOJ5tap5Nk : 2012-03-15 09:52 ID:tzXWzXw9 [Del]

>>27
Excellent excerpt. I just reposted that as a status because it resonates with such truth.