Without stiring a political debate, without pointing fingers at others' opinions, without attacking the views of those who have posted, explain the current political and economic state of the world (focusing on the USA) and your opinion on the direction we are heading, could be heading or will be heading. What are your opinions on how things currently are? What do you think will happen in a best case scenario? What do you think will happen in the worst case scenario? We hear through multiple news media outlet the opinions of the baby boomers, generation y and generation x; but I want to know what our generation, the next generation, the millennials think. Please say what you think, no matter how educated or ignorant you may feel. Please state what you think, not way you think of other posters!

????

Worst case scenario? the once wealthiest and "best" country in the world will die. The economy is getting worse, and small improvements are overshadowed by politicians' negative remarks, which affect the stock holders/buyers' choices. History will repeat itself, and the US will soon get in another war.

I actually have confidence in the USA. Both sides of the political isle are willing to drill for shale gas within our border, and we are willing to pull a Saudi Arabia on the rest of the world for it. Some serious cash flow will be had, and as long as the government gets a piece of the pie, they'll be satisfied with the outcome.

In the tech world, Moore's Law of Transistor Technology is going to come to an end soon, which means that something else is going to take its place, and developers are going to find more creative applications for the transistor to continue to sell more powerful computing technologies. This means the need for more innovators and a focus on education, hopefully.

The developing world is getting closer and closer to matching the developed world, and that does mean redistribution of wealth on a world scale. A lot of people are for, a lot are opposed, and the lifestyles of a lot of countries may change, but I think all in all it will be for the better thanks to what advanced technological resources we have.

Personally, unless the PEOPLE of the USA do something about the economic problems, the politicians can't fix it. Likewise, if the POLITICIANS keep up putting their funds into unnecessary things, the economy won't improve. Although I am happy with the NASA funding cuts, I think that people should keep spending, and keep the money flowing out there instead of attempting to hoarde it. Circulation is a key part in bringing back the economy. Also, it is my opinion that the more wealthy people should spend their millions instead of locking them away. Putting that money back out into the world would be a huge improvement. In addition, I recommend buying US-made items in order to keep the jobs here growing. I could be wrong about several of those ideas, though.

I would say we are becoming a world economy more so each day and until my home country of the USA accepts that the worse off we will be.

I've always thought of people as being in one giant group, not "Oh, you're from this country or of this race", so I really think the increasing interconnectedness of the world is a very good thing. Politically and economically though, I think it's going to get worse before it gets better.

A big problem politically is that so many politicians, both old and new, all have the same shtick, so all you have to choose from is the lesser of two evils, so to speak. In the US, politics have become increasingly polarized, and it seems like compromise is taboo. I think the politicians need to start looking at things a little differently and zoom out, so to speak.

bump for interest in additional thoughts

A note about spending vs. saving: unless you're stuffing your mattress with cash, there isn't really a difference. When you deposit money at a bank, it doesn't sit there, but gets lent out to people who then spend it.

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Why does no one want to discuss? Goddamn.

fine, fine, be that way angrynut.

Well I think that we're slowly becoming like England. We're gonna have taxes like crazy, and along with the other Socialism thread, some of the taxes and laws are just getting crazy. Crazy taxes would be that people who make over a certain amount of money is taxed such and such percent. I don't think this is right, because then the dentist making say....um, however much a dentist makes, is being taxed as much as the billionaire and millionaire who it doesn't seem to be affecting at all.
They should make a better tax law instead of that, because there is some serious anger going on with this, you guys might not notice the tax increase, but let me tell you, some of us are. :T And even yet, they should use our taxes for the better, not get us even more in debt. Did you know that it takes one person what....300 or 3000 years to spend one billion dollars if they spent one dollar per second? :Y that's not good, and considering we have so many trillion dollars in debt. That's even worse. Don't ask me the math, my teacher did it all for us, and put it into smaller ratios such as that.

Also, I think the laws are just getting stupider. I mean, the new law in California of letting illegals go to skewl here for free? Yeah I hate it. No offense to you nonAmericans though. :A And yes, California affects me because i have family and visit there at least twice if not more every year. What's not making sense is: we have this huge fence....and four border patrol stops from Arizona to California. Why, if we're letting illegals go to skewl here for free, are we trying so hard to keep them out? Oh right, Someone didn't think before they voted....and the people in Wall Street, the people in Downtown T----n that are 'protesting' about crap when they could go get a job and earn some money at least? Yeah, so what would be better, spend and waste time sitting there chatting with people about how you are all sorry-arsed and stuff or go get a job?

Oh, and with the whole "we're turning into Europe" whatever thing I said before. We should be ourselves, it feels like Obama is bringing us slowly into this socialism about depending on the government and stuff. I'm not saying I hate the government, it's just that...wow. I mean, the people used to have more of a say in this country and now it seems like the government just expanded and is starting to slowly push a silent socialism-dictation on us....blegh, it's just stupid rant from my parents and some stupid stuff I was thinking of on the way back from Cali, so that's why Cali affects me. I drive. /o/ woot woot. You REALLY want to know what I think? i think obama can die and we can have a better black president. He didn't "kill osama" or do any of that other 'new' stuff that just recently happened. It's just a coincidence that those people were killed while he was in position. He's only brought us farther into debt with China, and the whole mosque thing next to ground zero? No. just no.

>>13 What I have to say isn't good. We are all being kept in the dark about things. The U.S. may seem like a good place and all but it's actually corrupt. As for the economy, that too is corrupt. We are nothing more than pawns in a game of chess, NWO is coming very soon.

bump.

>>15 Well, we're not the only country that has corruption. It's everywhere. Not in the sense that it's all around us, or that more people than not are corrupt, but just that it exists in places all over the world. In that regard though, with the US at least, I think they should set laws limiting donations and funding that companies can give to politicians. Even if it's just the CEO or whatever of the company giving it as an "individual", you never know what the true intent really is, so they should just limit that across the board. Who knows? Maybe lower donations for campaigns would decrease the emphasis that gets placed on them, and politicians would spend more time focusing on legislating rather than getting re-elected. To that end, they could also extend the term for the House of Representatives to four or six years (I think it's the house that's up for re-election every two years?).

All I know is that we are the 99% and the very wealthy and corporations are the 1%. Also there might be another great depression, that is all...bleh excuse my political understanding, I barely know anything about politics.

And i indirectly quote the movie zeigeist:

No matter how much you won in monopoly, it all goes back in the box

Well, in keeping with the current economic system, the only possible solution that I see, will be for the majority of the people to become small time energy producers, selling it to the manufacturing plants, and the money they make to use to buy stuff from the said plants. And hopefully we'll soon after that see how useless money truly is, and try to better our selves.

17. The word you're looking for is bribe. That said I agree with you 100 percent. However it shouldn't be regulated it should be outright banned. It should be just as illegal for a corporation to "donate" money to a plotician as it is to pay a law enforcement agent to turn a blind eye to crime. Get rid of that and you open the door to fair elections where politicians are all given an equal shot of getting voted into office. We'd see third party presidents, senators, congress-people and judges that would bring fresh blood and ideas to a stagnant political spectrum. The needs of the public would be moved to the front burner and the nation as a whole would benefit. big business would be forced to run fair and ethically and if not they would be held to account. As for world economy: its a great idea. But wouldn't it be better to get our own house in order first so we can once again be the America that stands as an example to the rest of the world?

we will all die!!!!!

instant death to all humans hahahahahahahahah

You will die...!

You will die...!

You will die...!

>>22 through >>26

Right, but what of the Economic/Political state of the world? I think you might be misunderstanding the question ' ^'

america needs to get its act together, japan needs to clean up after diaster, Russia needs to resume imports and exports, china is frickin rich, and Iraq needs to give up it's oil as for Australia and Europe their pretty stable

h>>28 lmfao

The issue is that debt is EVERYWHERE. People are poor and depressed because nobody really has money except for a very low percentage of the very wealthy. And those wealthy people want things to stay exactly how they are without any change. But other than that, everyone is miserable and aching for change. Look at countries like Spain, which have revolted against their government because they want change. And look at countries like Greece, France, Germany, and England (which owes about a trillion dollars in debt right now). Even in China, a country which is doing decent, the people are still living in poverty. Their image is merely wealthy because of a handful of people who have gained wealth. However, the majority of people continue to struggle to get by.

In my opinion, the major thing that needs to happen is the wealth needs to be redistributed. People like professional athletes, actors, and musicians need to have their wealth cut by at least 3/4; no human being should be making a billion dollar wage. When there are people who are making 15,000 or 32,000 a year doing rigorous and sometimes life threatening jobs, then no singer should be going around making more than that in a day. That's ridiculous! I'm not blaming only the very wealthy, but I think it's silly how they're doing nothing as worldwide nations are collapsing.

Do I think America is going to sink? No, because then all the dozens and dozens of major nations would also fall in the debt crisis. But I do think there are going to have to be some major changes for us to fix things. And it's probably going to suck as bad as it is now, may even worse, until we can finally pick up the pace and get back on track.

/Rant

Reading this thread has actually been quite interesting, as Australia's been relatively insulated in comparison to, well pretty much every other country. We've still got our own dumbshit two-party system with idiotic politicians who refuse to compromise and sit on completely opposite ends of every see-saw possible, but that's business as usual. We've had a slight increase in unemployment, but that's it. No marked increases in businesses closing, homes being foreclosed, mortgages failing, people on the streets, and the like. In Australia during the whole crisis, after a moderate amount of panic, it's pretty much been business as usual.

Honestly, I just think the world's gone insane, and it'll keep slipping further and further into the depth of said insanity until something happens. But on the area of economy, poverty is normal; it comes and it goes. People just have to learn to live with what they have and get over what they don't. However, I agree >>30 that it's ridiculous how much celebrities and such are making. I mean, you have someone that's living on chicken scraps and food bank frozen egg white patties and then you have these people who are living on gourmet meals and have everything they want. It seems silly. I wouldn't want a communist government, and I would never want their things to be rationed just because they like to sing, but you would have figured that they would be giving more. Some really wealthy people do. They give away thousands of dollars to charity. But not all of them, and even the ones that do still live in luxury with more than they need.

[/endrant]

Back to the point of countries, I think that a lot of major nations are falling right now. Plus, anyone else notice the ridiculous situation that the American Congress is in? Everyone is so scared of changing that they can't even make a decision. Sometimes, change is the only way to get anything done, and if it's going to take a while so be it. Just stop complaining and let it work it's magic. If it fails, start a new plan. But instead of trying to get it perfect the first time, just get something moving. It's going to take a while for every nation that's having issues right now to get better.

It's sort of like when you're really drunk. Everyone says food helps you get sober, but it turns out that's just an old husband's tale. Only time makes you sober, and even time can't save you from the hangover that's sure to follow the next day.

Another rant. People on Cngress make too much money; they need some lower-middle class people representing them. Doesn't it seems stupid? Of course they're going to oppose a tax on the wealthy--they're wealthy. So what? Raise taxes on the middle class? That doesn't help anything, and thye don't have enough money to fix their debt problems anyway. [/endrant]

>>31 That's pretty interesting, actually. It seems like everyone in America broods over it continuously; business as usual isn't happening anytime soon, you know?

I'm glad to see this thread finally taking off. >14 pointed out the fist area fairly well, but, honestly and sadly, there is so much more to this issue. The way taxes are implemented needs reform. I'm not sure how much reform it needs, because any solution could potentially shake the system so much that we could end up worse off. A backfire is all too likely with how volatile things are within the public and the government at this point. A "bottom-up, top-down" situation is on the horizon, and we (the US and other countries) have been heading towards the collapse of the middle class, crushed between the lower and upper classes. Regardless, the current implementation on taxes, specifically the policies involving big businesses and the overtly wealthy, are already creating that divide; the middle class is more of a myth. You are either lower or upper, especially in the eyes of taxes. Do you keep most of your money and then huge returns because you make X amount each year, or do you have to pay out some of your money and then pay out even more because you make Y amount each year?
Like, I said before, there is SO much more to this and the other areas. Another good question, what is your money (in the eyes of taxing policies, the "government's money") being used for?

Both >>17 and >>21 hit the second area dead on. We have career politicians who care more about retaining their position than anything else. It should be said, the desire to keep one's job is an honest and correct motive; however, with a job being to maintain and improve the management of society and structure, one should take on an attitude and behavior of sacrifice. We are stuck with people in power who are luke-warm, two faced and apathetic at heart, striving to balance out their public appearances and opinions to keep just the right amount of people happy and just the right amount of people mad. They ACTIVITY push for a world in which they are "needed"; if they were to actually pursue to remediate issues then they run the risk of solving such and thus no longer being "needed". We do not NEED the federal government; they are not necessary unless we allow them and view them as so.
On to the political campaigns the the dirty money that make that world go 'round. Check out the current estimates of how much money from public funds each candidate can spend in a campaign. Keep in mind, this list is how much of the PUBLIC FUNDS (coming from your tax money/"their money") each candidate could spend in each state, and that is just the public funding! There is even more dirty money fueling the blood machine coming from campaign donations. Thousands upon thousands are donated by individuals, millions upon millions are donated by special interest groups, and billions upon billions are donated by corporations and big businesses... It makes me literally sick to think about it. That money could be used to solve multiple world problems, reform and repair a third world country, ACTUALLY stimulate and refuel the economy and job market, increase and fund international trade, etc etc etc etc etc!
You don't even want to see the reports on how much money during a campaign is spent on what. More money than I will make (and I make what is considered withing "middle class salary") in five years is spent on MOTHERFUCKING GODDAMNED BALLOONS AT POLITICAL RALLIES! What the fuck is this shit, right? I encourage you to research the wasted cycle that is political campaigns, political donations, and politician expenses (your money being used for their living costs).

>>30 has the right idea too. Well, actually, it is more like "is aware of the wrong idea". The wrong idea is our psychosocial structure; we are seriously messed up mentally as a society. Just about every other first world country is that same. Consumerism has a deathgrip on us and we celebrate spending. People are not paid for their value and contributions to the progress of the world and maintenance of the society; instead, they are paid for how entertaining the masses find them to be and how much advertisers and marketers can use that popularity to sell products. It wasn't until the modern age of human society and culture that athletes, musicians/singers/performers and actors jumped the social ladder. Gymnasts (greek term), bards and thespians were the previous existence these people dawned and they were meant to entertain and pursue their arts and activities, not to make bank off the sales of merchandise, commercials, and promotions. Commercialism is a major contributor to our belligerent state of being. It is insane how much money we spend on crap we don't need and how much money that crap costs compared to the price of production (not to mention its true value). This is possibly the worst of the problematic areas because it reaches to the very core of how we currently exist. We do not live to survive; we live to exist and try to prove this through consumption of property, services and goods. The worst part is that we are all guilty of contributing to this.

I could rage and rant more, but I should get back to work and allow someone else to use this soapbox. I've been on it too long.

>>33 Jesus Christ! I didn't realize how long that was.

bump. >>34 I've seen longer.

Discussion in this thread is the most intelligent shit I've ever seen, recently. Keep this at #2, behind FAQ. Well, in the making of this post it is. Sorry I can't join in, I'm uninformed about the economic and political side of the world, hurr durr.

>>36 ahem. for reasons unknown owob

>>36
Even though I have done research and work in a field which requires some understanding of the stock market, economics, etc, I feel I too an uninformed considering how many things there are to consider and how many more there are involved.

I think it is fine for you to state your thoughts or opinions when it comes to something like this as there may be others who are curious but do not know how to get involved in this topic. Better yet, ask questions, because even those of us who are "informed" could use hearing those questions to spike further investigation and thought. As the quote goes, "Truly wonderful, the mind of a child is."

I heard that Obama made the economy worse- I just overheard this.

>>39 i agree. although i didn't overhear it, i just saw it.

I highly doubt that the depression that is occurring across the globe is solely the fault of the American President. This most likely occurred due to many other countries, as well as America, over-spending and only increasing the debt that their country owes, among other factors.

In America's case it as nothing to do with two back to back wars that happened under the previous administration. Nothing at all...

I think America will fall and China will take its place when it comes to money

i dont think our future looks very bright but we all have suggestions and predictions. but like any other situation only time will tell.

well if one lives in the USA ower economic situationist is rising. one a new president to reimplemented in office it will serenely be (Republican) so for the house to be over thrown by the republican. as it is the poor economy will go up, taxes will rise, ower dedts will lower, and the rich will get richer that. pretty much my guess for ower future in the political department.

>>39 >>40 >>41
It is easy to use the American Presidents as a scapegoat, regardless of how much fault actually comes from them. Keep in mind, there is a whole slew of politicians retaining their positions in the House and Senate, sitting on committee boards, for years at a time. I'm not saying Obama or Bush, or their administrations, are blameless. Quite the contrary, I believe much blame should fall on them, but as for saying they are the cause? Not so much. They didn't start the fire, but they have given it plenty of fuel.

The issues and causes seem to be vast.

>>42 is right, but it goes even further with two oversea "wars" (invade, occupy and incite political and social reform to a completely different culture) along with extensive spending by multiple federal groups in the name of "your own good/safety" along with moral vendettas such as the "war on drugs" and the constant political battle over things such as gay marriage and privacy. These things eat up millions while yielding none to little progress.

divineraccoon i agree with your statement, pretty much, with use having to get ower way were some how making it worst for ower self but in a way fix this problem we cant help to step on others to get ower results.

>>47 that's one nice name Sir

Also anyone else have crazy thoughts on our economic and political state? I think we should make our government smaller. They're getting too much power, but i don't mean to give the people complete power, then we'd just be anarc---

but still. :A

>>48 ya your right,there REALLY needs to be a better balance in this world between the gov and the rest of society...the reall Q is how can we or how will we do that?

Personally, I think we're all fucked in both the short-term, and the long-run. Our best bet, in my opinion, is to try as hard as we can to not screw everything up MORE for the next generation. In fact, we SHOULD be trying to improve it before that time comes. Anyway, I think the Dollars can help contribute towards a better future for them, because the financial situation today is gonna affect us for years.

I think America is screwed. I recentally found an artical (though very long) pointing out amazing facts and such about the downfall of the U.S. dollar. If anyone would like to read, here's the link:
http://www.stansberryresearch.com/pro/1011PSIEND49/6PSIMA25/PR

well that's the problem of the government not our problem

The irony of the topic is that we choose for the politicians who are in now and those in the future. Even those in nations other who are not Democratic. Those politicians are in their positions due to respect that is given to them by their "fans."
As for the problem with currency, that is because governments ask for too much from the people and because everyone is very greedy.

>>54 i think you have that last part backwards....
dont you mean that the people ask too much from government?

>>55 number 54 is right people in the national government are reedy but still its the problem of the GOVERNMENT

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I'll tell you why I didn't join.. I didn't join to be a RP ON THE FUCKING MAIN BOARD. The yellow scarves don't exist! The yellow scarves is a candyass name for a gang composed of children going through puberty. STOP POSTING SHIT INSPIRED BY WHAT YOU SAW LAST SATURDAY NIGHT BECAUSE YOU ARE TOO YOUNG TO GO OUT.

>>58
Fuck me... wrong thread...

>>59 LMAO thanks for bumping tho!

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AWSUM BUMP! sorry insert for leaving you to.....TRIPLE BUMP *^*

hao scary...

bump for inducing the concept of market tampering to this conversation

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bump for the bubble is gonna pop

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bump for "smart" talk

Best case senario: someone decides to do the right thing for once instead of being selfish and/or not giving a damn about the people of this country, and actually fix things for a change. Worst case senario: we fall into a depression again. thats my opinion. *shrugs*

If keeps going the way it is...hmm it might last or it might go to shit! who knows im hoping its not tereaible though.Will all tha the us is going through who knows really it could go ethire way im jsut gonna go with the flo but if it fucks up and messes the whole us up the what the hell fuck man after that point lets go bezerk!lol :)

What's happening to America is very similar to the fall of Greece. The rich are simply getting to greedy.. among other things.

>>14 I would say the we are closer to being pre-revolutionary France. You're right about the taxes being so ridiculously out of balance that it is not funny at all. The rich should be paying taxes according to how much they make no matter what. sure some of them use their money to go towards charities and scholarships and things like that, but i think that in order to help with the economic problem we should be pouring more money into the actual state and country rather than in private companies. Don't get me wrong, i support charities and scholarships, but the rich are just using them as tax deductions. maybe instead we should implement a minimum ammount that must be payed depending on the amount of income made by that person, no matter what deductions they might make to the total tax amount they are supposed to pay.

As for the government trying to step in and help the situation out, all the government officials need to be on the same page with the reforms needed to make this economic situation turn around. The blame can not be placed on one single politician, but rather on many. yes, we have the career politicians that just want to hold on to their jobs no matter what the cost, but we also have crazy extremists that won't listen to the other side of the argument. i understand that compromise is not always the answer and that in some cases it is actually worse than just picking one side and sticking with it but it does nobody any good to totally shoot down the flow of ideas that are coming from both sides.

As for the "occupy" protests: I actually passed by the occupy Denver protest about a month ago, roughly 30 minutes or so before the police used rubber bullets on some of them, and was asked by a friend whether or not i would have stayed and protested if i could have. my response was "i do not pay taxes quite yet, so i don't feel that i would have the right to even if i wanted to" this lead to a debate between me and him about the goals of the protest in general. We agreed that if we could have a perfect communism/socialism, then everyone would be happy, however we are imperfect and greedy creatures and therefore any communist/socialist government created by us would be closer to a fascism. Long story short, Capitalism is probably the right way to go, and wall street is one of the best ways to keep this in place.

We then discussed the social classes and whether or not they should be abolished. going off of the "capitalism is necessary" discussion, we decided that the class system is not only inevitable, but actually needed in order to sustain the capitalist society we live in, but we also decided that the gap between classes is too ridiculous to be able to sustain order in the country, so keeping the difference of income closer between classes would probably be the only thing we can do about the wall street protests and the economic effects that would come of altering or abolishing wall street.

The whole world has gone to shit I'm just watching it at this point wondering when the Us economy will crash with all of our fake debt piling up. In reality no country is financially sound we just need to do a hard reset to bad its not that easy. Ah well I have no choice but to watch it all unfold.

>>77
VERY well put. I too have been asked by friends to join the occupy movement protests as well as questioned as to why I am not involved. I can't say my reasons for lack of involvement are the same as yours; also, I don't know if I necessarily agree that Capitalism is the best choice. Even still, you make some valid points that I stand behind. I'm not involved because I disagree with the occupy movement and the varying, muddled agendas of the groups involved, as the movement itself is not coherent.
I believe there is a problem with the distribution of wealth in the United States, and around the world, but I have serious concerns as to where this problem stems. IMO, the issue is not necessarily the political system itself or even a matter of Socialist vs. Capitalist, instead it comes down to business practices/policies and poor regulation of those businesses. I'm not sure how I feel about the federal government having the authority to step over the threshold of the business world so much so that they can have an even more influential hand in these practices. It could be said they should be able to do so to a greater extent then they currently have power, but the idea of that frightens me a bit. The freedom that makes Capitalism enticing and promising would be potentially eliminated through federal regulation, but at the same time, it could redistribute centralized finances from CEOs, big-wigs and shareholders to others among the population. I'm not sure the cost is worth the price considering the amount of freedoms yielded to the government to reprieve these concerns.
I would like to think a new school of thought will dawn, something with the qualities of Socialism and Capitalism mixed in such a way that allows progress without the sacrifices of lower class citizens. I work in a field that allows me insight into the world of investment, finances, stocks, equities, etc. I see numbers that I can't imagine being associated with my funds over years of my life. Working hard doe not mean you will succeed financially; to do that, one must learn how to be savvy and shrewd while playing the money game. Unfortunately, those who have more chips can place more bets and higher bets and have a far greater chance of success in the gamble. In short, it appears all the green is stuck being used for a game of prediction and reaction to markets, values of which do not reflect how the market is actually doing.
Wall Street shouldn't fall, it should be reformed. I don't know how that would be possible though.

aaaaaaaaaaaaaannnnnnnnnddddddddddd


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Switzerland always seems to be doing pretty good. Thats where I'm going. XD

Get ready for the revolution man...... The u.s is going to be in a reck cause of the eco system... So i think wen that happens the dollars can stick together in a group

>>81
This is true, but I hear even the European economy is showing some ominous foreshadowing.
>>82
How would you propose the Dollars react? I would hope that if harder times come, that we can be supportive of one another and give suggestions on how to handle it all.

In current new, NYSE = volatile as shit mixed with vinegar and baking soda.

>>79 true enough. The whole "some protesters don't know what the hell they're doing." thing was a reason i wouldn't have joined, but it was more of an afterthought at the time and i only brought the Socialism vs. Capitalism thing into debate because there are a few people in the protests, albeit not very many, that would advocate for the fall of capitalism in america. i agree with the statement that money in america, through the use of shareholdings and stocks in wall street, is basically used on one big guessing game, but the problem doesnt just lay in t6he fact that some people have more chips than others, but also because people want a "safe bet" and don't spread the chips enough, furthering the unequal distribution of wealth. I would quite enjoy a more mixed type of government, but as you said the implications of government getting involved in business, while possibly helpful, are quite worrisome. As i said, a possibility may be a proposed tax minimum for people in accordance with their income after they reach over X amount of dollars in income. even if they do not do this, i think the first step would be to stop giving tax breaks to people under the assumption that they will use the money to help stimulate the economy. they won't. not enough anyways.

>>84 bump for more >>84

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I've been reading this thread and I really like what's being said here. Even though I'm only a 16-year-old Sophomore in High School, I still get what's going on. My dad and I get into these political conversations all the time. We also talk about this in my History class. Our teacher likes to keep our class as close to a college level as possible.

But enough about HOW I understand this. Now I'll say what I think. (I apologize in advance if I say something really close to what someone else said)

There is a situation right now and the government is trying to take our rights to own firearms (listed in the 2nd amendment)away. I'm not a supporter of violence...but why do you think the government doesn't want us to have weapons? My dad and I are both in agreement that the government wants to take them away so that we can't protect ourselves. They want power. More power than they already have. In my opinion, they have way more power than they should.

When it comes to taxes, the government is sucking all our cash from us and they hardly use it for what we need it for. The government says they're using it to pay off debt, but all I see is an increase in debt, not a decrease. The government wants power, and in this world: having money means having power. As a few have pointed out before: there are so many people with tons of money and then there are those living on the streets. If we had equal distribution (or at least wages closer to each other in quantity) then our country would not only get rid of poverty, but our economy would flow better.

But of course, our government wants to keep people restricted. What's not to say that they would use equal distribution to keep us under control? It may just be a lose-lose solution.

Back to what I said about firearms. If they take our rights to own and carry them away, the illegals will still take them. I mean, if illegals take them without a license now, taking away rights to have a license wont stop them later. We just wont have the ability to protect ourselves and families against gangs and murderers.

And I'll bet you didn't hear about this. Congress has approved a new bill, and it's moving through the Senate now. The bill gives all citizens with a carry and conceal license the right to carry and conceal in ALL states in the whole country. BUT, in extension (and most people don't know about THIS part yet) the bill gives the president the ability to convict any carriers of terrorism if he sees fit. These people would be convicted and the Miranda Law, plus our Constitution rights, would be thrown out the window. Any carrier of any firearms could be given the death penalty without being guilty of any such threat. AND they wouldn't be able to argue for themselves.

Another reason why the government would want to take AWAY our rights to own firearms:
If you compare how many citizens have firearms versus our military power, the citizens have more power. So if the government wants to force their way with us, and enough people agree to fight the government, we'd easily be able to overthrow the military. It may sound unbelievable but it's true. Our military (everybody! every branch and every duty) makes up to (at most) 6 million strong. Our citizens make up to 100 million strong (or at least that's what I believe it is. If I misunderstood something, someone tell me).

The government doesn't want us to have the power. They want to have the power.

I realize I pointed out different points in a very scattered way and I'm sorry if I confused anyone. But this is serious. The citizens need to do something, we can't just watch it unravel.

bump for I plan on reading >>94

bump to re-open this conversation to others.

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Divine I asked you this before but you got pissed at me. Are you the admin?

I really think that the decline will continue. Looking through history, there's always been corruption, but it seems to me that it's much more widespread than before. People are constantly lying to one another, mistreating each other, and generally not caring about the state that other people are in. Not only that, but it's nearly impossible for a person to state what they feel or believe because someone might very well come and attack them. The thing is, everyone has a right to their own opinions and beliefs, but it just feels to me like a lot of that is very restricted. You don't have to agree with a person's beliefs or lifestyle, but there is a way to disagree without being judgemental or crude about it. I hate to say it, but I really don't think things are going to get any better.

Ppl have lost there morals of good and evil

>>100 And their ability to type apparently... (sry had to xP and it's apparent that English isn't ur primary language)
Actually it's very apparent that they have not. Depression is very rampant among the richest people in the world, however just like kids, unless someone snaps them out of it (in this case a state should at least give some of these CEOs some jail time) they'll just keep on going.
It is a strange world that we live in indeed, but why don't we try to steer it more into the direction we see fit? Out innovate, out smart those currently in charge.

Fucking bump

...

I.... I have a lot of things to say about this topic, but if I said EVERY SINGLE THING that is currently running through my mind, this reply would turn out to be a friggin' essay. Anyway:

I believe that the economy OF THE WORLD is doing FAIRLY WELL, that is, if the U.S doesn't keep showing signs of decline. In my point of view, the U.S has been declining ever so steadily since the era of the computers. I know, it should have SAVED EVERYONE, but hasn't it brought newer problems? Hackers, maybe...? New ways of communications...? Communications to enemies...? It's not just outside enemies that the U.S should be worried about, it's the people INSIDE the country who are representing the people (congress/people in general).

What do they really want? Are YOU voting the person you like because you know they'll do something for you...? Or for the country as a whole? As I see it, people are voting for what can benefit for THEM. Through U.S history, I see a history of 'right or left' sides within the country. "you're either with me, or against me", kind of things. What I'm saying with this is the Tea party and the Occupy Wall Street protestors. One side is saying "Raise taxes", one side is saying "cut spendings." What I don't get is why can't you do both? And for whatever reason, whenever the president wants to find the middle of the arguement, nearer the solution, people start to dislike them. So then now you have arguements within the country, which is causing more problems.

I don't know about you, but this would cause major problems AS A WHOLE. Ah, my thoughts are everywhere. Okay, SUM IT ALL: I believe the U.S is declining, and when that happens, a lot of other countries might go down, too, with the exception of a few others. If we don't just friggin get together and find soluations (i'm not trying to sound all hippie or whatever), or at least a truce or something, things might happen. BAD THINGS. And, I have no idea if 2012 would effect a lot of people... though, I personally don't believe in that. Ah, yeah, my thoughts were everywhere, huh?

Lets pull this up for some discussion

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My opinion is that everything is screwed up. No matter how yo look at it. Worst Case senario is...well... everything most of us know of is going to come crashing down at some point.

it will collapse and die or cave in on it self

Like what everyone says - If there is no action, the world will crumble and fall but eh. There's no equality present and I don't think it would for a very long time.
No matter what, there's always something wrong.
I don't like the idea of a war, but if you take a look at the world currently, it can actually happen no matter how many times we say it won't.

bump for relevance to current events involving the NDAA bill and its amendements

>>104 I agree with you that there is a big problem in the way some people are voting. I don't want to offend anybody who likes Obama, but he made so many promises that people took in. They liked those promises and they might have thought "oh! that sounds good for me"

Well I'm seeing that most of the promises Obama made were broken. Another thing... our government keeps saying they'll make things better. But what have they done? So far...I see things getting worse and worse. It's horrible. Not only for America, but the world. The world practically stood on America's shoulders for so long. The government isn't only letting American citizens down but the world too.

>>111 I know. Some people believe that we'll have a Utopia someday and we probably wont. No...not probably. We DEFINITELY wont. I mean, we should try to avoid war and solve problems politically, but man wants power. The thirst for power always leads to bloodshed.

So...in other words...
We're more likely doomed than having the chance to be saved.

>>113 you have to realize though that all of the promises made by Obama that were broken are not all on him. sure there are some things he said he would do but hasn't, but there are also people in congress that won't allow him to keep some of these promises, it's not just him that makes these decisions. you have it right when you say that the government isn't doing anything at this point to try and improve the problem though, and i think its because people focus more on the politics and what other people believe in rather than how we can actually get things done. people look too closely on the surface of a person, decide they dont wanna do things their way because they dont like them or their beliefs and then just refuse to listen to any reason thrown their way. this is true for all political parties.

NOTE: Obama = Bush = Clinton = Bush Sr. = Reagan = Etc, etc, etc.
It is not a matter of who is/was the President. It goes beyond that. As long as the general public is stuck on the idea of political parties and such, they will not see that the best way to control people is to cause them to fight against one another so they do not fight against the ones holding power over them.

>>115 eh. i disagree to an extent. i think it doesn't matter WHICH party is in control but there are obviously some people better suited to lead the country than others. when it comes down to it, they all have similar ideas anyways. the two party system, and the people who are stuck on the two party system WILL end up causing our downfall though exactly because of the fact that people get stuck on the fact that some people are from a different party.

>>114 yeah I do know that it's not only hs fault. I'm just saying that he should've done a little research in what he can and can't do. Yes, he has good intentions. But he still could be more honest than dishonest when trying to get elected. I mean, yes...people who want to be elected president say things appealing to those listening. BUT, they sometimes like to exxagerate what they can do. This can lead to people hating him later. In the long run, it doesn't matter what you did before getting elected, but what you do after.

There's a quote:
"When the power of love overcomes their love for power the world will be at peace."

bump for more!

>>117 well put, but can you really say that any other president can/has/will do anything else when running for office? they say what they WANT to do. they can't really promise anything, and that's something that voters need to realize

>>121 I agree. What my dad says when he votes is that he votes for "the lesser of two evils." He doesn't mean that they're all evil, he means that both have the chance of screwing things up, and he chooses the one that seems a little better for the country. I kind of agree with his actions. I think that people who want to be elected president should instead say what he has as qualities. When he says what he wants to do but isn't sure he can, he get's people's hopes up.

This have to be one of the most interesting threads on this site. It deserve a bump.

It's all going to go to shit. One of the biggest problems is the basic philosophy behind it. It is based upon the idea of infinite growth; that it is both possible and achieveable year upon year forever. However, this comes into conflict with a number or problems. First, the fact that the vast majority of the world relies upon fiat currency. If you're not sure what that is, Fiat currency is a currency that derives it's value from what the government says it is worth. In other words, it has no actual value. When you give me a $10 note, it isn't actually worth anything, it's just a representation. Gold, for example, has actual intrinsic value.
Then this comes into conflict with the Law of the Conservation of Energy. This law states that energy can be neither created nor destroyed, only changed from one form to another. This means that there is a finite amount of energy. Do you see the problem? We are pretending that we can see infinite growth, based upon a currency with no intrinsic value that assumes that infinite growth is possible against a finite amount of energy. Eventually all of these things collide. And guess what, it already happened. Society's beginning to fall apart. Governments are losing control. Society is beginning to fall apart - this is the nature of all things. In the end, all things crumble and become simple.

I don't know what we're going to do. The way we fixed our last giant economic problem was going to war in a big way. Somehow I don't see that happening again.

bump because it's an important discussion of sorts.

>>125 I disagree with you. I can see the signs of a war coming along. America is in huge debt and it's a lot. Don't you think a country may attack us for money to force us to give it back? I wouldn't put that past anybody. BUT, so many countries owe each other. Why not call a truce? Nobody wants to pay anybody back but they want to get theirs back. It's conceited in a way. Get what I'm saying?

>>127
No one would attack the US or any other countries over their debt. What are they going to do raid the empty treasuries. It be stupid,it would only create more problems and they'd get nothing out of it. The only war we face is one of culture or creed, if the world religions or culures decide to go to war of the ever continuous globalization process we we have war. Aside from that any other interstate war is highly unlikely. Aside from that between NATO and the UN declaring war or attacking any country without the consent of the world means the world invades you.
The current world economic problems are temporary. Its part of capitalism, its call a crisis of overproduction, it happens every now and again and we're on our way out of it. China is going to go through the same thing within en years because they have a housing bubble right now, Europe's debt crisis is no different in severity to the US's problem and will sort itself out with time as well. Politically the US is stagnant and need a reform of its political system and to revitalize its civil society. The rest of the world is doing ok, minus som corruption but that happens. The rouge states of the world are doing rather well at the moment because no one is paying attention to them but China and China is giving them money but its nothing that can't be sorted out. End senario is the US has anoter 100 years of being the hedgemon and Europe is ok. There are problems but they can be dealt with. Now if you're loooking to me for domestic issues like the wealth gap and such within the US you're barking up the wrong tree but that is a different story entirely and it involves long complicated discussions and examples.

bump

bemp

There's something I don't understand. Why is the US trying to suppress Christianity? I know this is changing the subject a little bit but it is important. The US government has been taking steps to destroy Christianity. Granted, it wont work. But still...why are they doing it? I can't even figure it out.

Btw.... >>128 I see what you mean.

I don't know that the U.S. is outright taking steps to destroy Christianity, but it has been an unneeded and very limiting part of our government systems for a long time. The fact that we claim that we have a separation of church and state is totally trampled over by the fact that almost everyone in congress is upper-middle-class white and christian. It's true that we are a country of free religion and allow people to practice whatever they want, but there is a huge stigma against anything that isn't christian or that goes against christian values in any way. I think it's more of a call for equality among religions and a call for religion to be separated from government and politics than a legit suppression.

You have to understand the system in which Americas society was built on how other upper class white males feel the need to dominate over things and surpress everyone else when they feel "threatened" that requires actually knowing how laws came into being like the 14th admendment for example and look at some of the cases that are on file some of them are nothing but "example" cases so people can use as reference in order to mold Society into the way upper class men are fit its all about being in charge and using laws that haven't been touched since slavery as justification for their actions. And SS for chrich and state there was a time when there was no difference the church use to open her legs for the highest bidder. No offense to peoples religious beliefs but its a fact in history. In simple America is the youngest country and we have no history to really look back on and review our past actions we are making mistakes now and hopefully we learn from them and learn to change.

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>>131 What on earth makes you think the US is supressing Christianity? the goverment has taken zero steps to destroy christianity. The fact they tend to not allow Chritsian symbols for Christian reason on federal land is simply part of the protection of the right to freom of religion. Everyother "anti-christian" act is society based. The goverment doesn't care what relgion you follow or how you worship as long as you aren't hurting people or radicalizing them. her is no war on Christmas.

>>133 Do you listen to yourself? White upper class males feel theneed to dominate over society? Are you freaking kidding me? What are you pissed off successful people used their success in a legal way to be more successful. The upper class doesn't give to shits about society or dominating any thing other than the market and continuing to make money. You're understanding of history and the legal system arenot only flawed but extremely biased. You end sayingAmerica has no history, america has a massive complex history tha is by many accounts more meaningful than the entirety of numerous other nations' histories. American history is the foundation for political science.

All i saw was america is trying to destroy christianity.
whoever put that needs to be educated properly

Food for thought: http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/12/13/chinas-hu-reportedly-tells-navy-to-get-ready-for-military-combat/

>>138
Could you please repost this reply with breaks and paragraphs?

>> Redone for 139 ^^
>>135
1. sweetie ive taken many courses and seminars on this matter already law classes, history classes, and sociology with people who are very successful in this matter. And my views on this matter were stated AMERICA is young in comparison to how old other countries are. We ARE still trying to find our way. And the fact that we have not changed things like the constitution since it was written and even today we see the flaws of it within our legal system SHOULD in fact be PROOF enough that they do need to be changed.

Gratz V. Bollinger is a perfect example of what I am talking about it was a "example case". The case talks about colleges placing aside a set ratio for minorities or as some colleges refer to it like in Regents of the University of California V. Bakke which by the way are two similar cases "disadvantaged students" to even be accepted into major legit universities and whether or not its okay to use race as a factor when applying for admissions to a college even till this day that happens to still be the case Universities set aside a Quota to justify themselves to say they are "diverse". Why does race even have to be a factor? why does there even need to have a quota set aside for minorities in the first place it cant just be based off of their SAT scores and essays to begin with but their nationality as well?

When congress passed the fourteenth amendment in July 1868 which continues to play a major role in contemporary legal battles over discrimination, it extended citizenship to all those born naturalized in the United States and guaranteed citizenship to all those born or naturalized in the United States and Guaranteed all these citizens due process and equal protection of the law BUT it in addition cancelled depts. incurred by the federal government this meant that wealthy southerners who had extended large sums of money or credit to the confederacy would lose it while wealthy northern industrialists would be paid.

In 1874 By minor v. Happersett section 13 in which the court asked to rule directly on the question on whether women had the right to vote or not the court rules animously that women did not have the right to vote arguing that women, like criminals had mental defectives.

In elk v. Wilkens John elk was a native American who had left this tribe and lived among whites in Nebraska and he argued that he was a citizen by virtue of the 14th amendment and should not be denied the right to vote by the state of Nebraska the State rules that the 14th amendment didnt apply to Native Americans or Elk under the provisions of the Dawes Act of 1877

Plessy V. Ferguson 1892 the supreme court was asked to rule whether or not the 13th and 14th amendment was being violated when it came to segregation by race in public facilities the supreme court rules that restricting Negros to use the "separate but equal" accommodations of the law did not deny them equal protection of the law

In America's past history there has been racist attitudes towards the Chinese Americans, which was reflected in the 19th century and Towards Japanese Americans as well which erupted during the bombing of pearl harbor.

So not its not that im pissed off at America or our government im simply stating that there is a lot in our history that shows that Yes Successful upper class males when they do feel threatened by minorities feel the need to try and dominate and separate themselves from the rest of the world. It has been shown throughout history till this very day. Because yes there are still some people who have this mentality that we still should be segregated from others.

So I will say it again AMERICA is the Youngest country compared to places like China and Europe. Though we are comprised of a rainbow of different nationalities and people who are giving daily to make a better future for themselves. Abraham Lincoln himself even admitted that a little change is necessary in the world. How else are we going to grow as a Nation? And I didnt mean we literally have no history im saying as a Nation compared to others we have very little we are babies when you look at the history of other countries.

All im simply saying is that there are something’s that need to change .... and we wont get there if we use terms like "colorblind" when it comes to race or using a constitution in which people say dont need a few tweaks and updates here and there because its fine the way it is even if they notice the loop wholes in our Justice system.

I dont mean to lecture you but you need to look up how actually laws within the constitution came to be and the cases that happened within those time periods before you open your mouth and try to go head to head with me in a argument hun. ^^

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>>141 you make it seem as though the only people in power white now are rich white people, and then you state cases from 200 years ago to show how racist Americans have been in the past.

All of those decisions made in order to make it so that minority citizens are unequal to white males have ALL been overturned. a large majority of millionaires in America are part of a minority group. Yes, there is still some racial tension in some parts of america, but i think think that in large it doesn't matter what race you are. the rich are going to try to stay rich and as a result the poor will remain poor. while ethnicity does play a part, it's not part of the focus of people who are trying to stay on the top anymore.

Also, saying that we don't have much of a history to learn from? yeah, we are relatively young in comparison to places like China, but we have changed a lot over the past about 250 years. We have a lot to learn from in just the past century about what we should and shouldn't do, it's a really strange thing. not only that, but you have to remember that we still have history BEFORE the formation of the US that we can still learn from.

>>143
Let me ask you this. Who actually has more say in the world of politics than any other people? Who's faces do we see on television the most that "represent" America (besides the president)? When has the US ever wanted to learn from other countries?!? We established america because we didnt like how the King was treating us thats why we seperated for "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." and if you honestly think that ALL these decisions have been overturned you can go read the consitution for starters again and turn on the news because there are people serving time for no a crime they didnt comit in jail there are cops planting evidence other innocent victums there are congressmen stealing money from the government as we speak there are people serving life sentences for a ounce of marijuana, they are serving the same senctence as people who have trucks load of drugs from here to mars.

So there is more than "some" racial tension there is more than "some" issues wrong with our justice system. And there is "little" we want to learn from others because we are proud and because of the basis of why we got away from places like britian and europe to begin with.

And I dont know if you have notices but there is only Rich and poor right now (basiclly) the middle class is hanging on by a thread of hair.

These issues im posting here aren't new, im not against america or anything you can look up this stuff yourself look at court cases and everything. I live in the City of Politics okay all we discuss is politics and sports Literally! XD

My whole point in all of this is we need to change plain and simple and people being naiive and people turning a blind eyes isnt going to help bring about it. And people saying things have changed and been overturned isn't going to help change America for positive and better either. Thats all im saying. And the reason I said Upper Class white males isn't because of race or anything of the sort its just society.

Just like its hard for a black women to go into fashion because they will be looked down upon versus a gay male etc. People still hold these "Views" about what Place minorities should hold and take in society and really it wont matter soon beacause we are over populated and they say that Indian's (From India) are going to overpopulate the Chinese so Minorities will evertually dominate I just hope that it can lead to
Modernization to Globalization.

Even though there is "equality" among races as far as voting and being a citizen goes, there are many problematic ways that the U.S., and specifically it's people, still oppress the minority groups (Imma stick with race for now, seeing as addressing LGBTQ issues has not yet been brought up.)

Did you hear about how Arizona passed a law that allows officers ask anyone who they deem "suspicious" to show their immigration papers? In the law it says that the officer cannot participate in racial profiling, but how often would you personally suspect a white guy of being an immigrant over someone who is multiracial or "looks" Mexican or Muslim or Japanese or Chinese or Filipino or any other nationality aside from white or black?

Or how many upper-class American's, the ones who basically run our country, tend to stereotype Mexican, Puerto Rican and African-American mothers as "drugged out and on welfare."

Stereotyping in general is a nature of this oppression, and it is a big concern to those who want to stay in the upper and upper-middle class that their money doesn't go to these welfare mothers who are racialized in the way that I just explained.

>>144 you miss my point. i never said that racial tension is a small issue. i know you never said i did either, but that is the vibe i get from your response and i apologize in advance if i am mistaken. nor did i say anything about the justice system NOT being flawed. what i was trying to say was that based on your earlier statement that all of the problems in this country are due to the RICH, WHITE, MAN. I merely pointed out that the points you used to back this up came at a time where people were a lot more racist and our justice system had a whole lot more flaws than it does today. I know very well how badly white americans have fucked over (for lack of a better, more accurate term) other races, but today it is not NEARLY as much of a problem as it was then. yes, we still have racial profiling. yes, we tend to suspect middle easterners to be terrorists more often than any other races but this thread, as well as your inital post, is supposed to be directed at the issue of the economy in america.

What i am saying in >>143 isn't some self-righteous claim that "oh, America's changed" , it's that what we need to be focused on isn't that the "those rich white pricks are screwing over the poor people" (sorry if that statement seems a bit extreme), it's that "ALL THE RICH PEOPLE, white or not, are fucking over ALL THE POOR PEOPLE, minorities or not." and that not one rich person, regardless of color, is going to WANT to change that.

>>146 Im not saying its as bad as it was back then I am saying its still there and in some cases right in front of our faces and people still turn away from it. And do not mistake me I mentioned Upper class white men but didnt mean that everything i stated previously only applied to them.

Things will get much worse before they get better.
since i was old enough to realize what a country is and how fast america has taken on the roll of protecter and basicly police of the world when we are not even a qtr as old as the country's we boss around.
and the fact that as a people we have had no great trials since ww2 (i would say nam as well but we never really finished that fight) we dont know what it means to struggle as a nation together.

>>148 Good Point

>>141
I think you need to look at how laws came into being and re-examine history without an extreme liberal bias. The comparison of the age of the US between that and other countries means nothing. Ultimately we're the oldest liberal democracy in existence and that's pretty much the only game in town. US foreign and domestic policy are clearly defined, along with our identity. We're not figuring any thing out, because we already have. Other countries are still arguing over what the general nature of their governments will be. We argue over some small technical details of a liberal system but the rest of the world is still trying to get on board with that stem. The US is not a baby, no its the hegemonic leader of international system. We're only young if you look back a the governments of states prior to our existence and those governments have little bearing on the modern world because the monarchies and empires of yesterday don't really matter to the day to day running of an international liberal democratic system.
The best quote from this thread is "we dont know what it means to struggle as a nation together". We fought one of the bloodiest civil wars in history, we won a revolution that should have been impossible, we struggled through the Great Depressions, won WW2, managed to indirectly push the USSR into collapse, and got through 9/11. The US has had plenty of hard times even in recent history, it knows how to struggle through things and come out strong. I'm not going to stay we haven't grown soft in the post-Cold War era but don't pretend we haven't suffered through hard times.The US may have softened but its far from weak or unexperienced. Its people have lost the proud civil society they once had and with that America has slipped some but its not something that can't be undone
An as far as your race point, its classic and stupid argument. We've all read "The Power Elite". The only reason race and racism is still a factor( and a very small one) is because people like you look at "history" and assume its impossible we've moved on. Yes, we need to learn from the past but we're not supposed to wear it like a shroud. Race plays a very little part in American society today. It only really becomes a factor when someone grabs hold of it and waves it like a flag ecause we're al so afraid of being racist and have a collective guilty conscience for no reason. No one cared Obama was black till people started making a big deal out of it and going around saying people that didn't support him were racist. The only people that are openly discriminating against people are skin-heads and college acceptance boards. The institution that use quotes not because white males want to keep minorities down, they use quotes because minorities fought for equal treatment under the law and then asked for quotas. I think that affirmative action is a terrible thing, it forces race to remain part of the discussion. But it only remains part of the discussion because people that are afraid of being discriminated against won't bloody well shut up about. No one cares except them but we're also scared to be "politically incorrect" we all freak out about the stupidest things.
Yes, america has a racist history, so does the rest of the world but collectively we've all moved on. There is no white power elite trying to keep the minorities down. The fact is you're talking about some very old court cases that have been overturned in years since and are frankly from a different era.

I'm all for re-evaluating the system, I'm even in for a re-boot. Jefferson, himself said there should be a revolution every twenty years but that said I don't believe we should be pretending that the "upper-class" are this united group that ctively put down the rest of us. They aren't, some of them have their hand in politics but they're far more concerned with making money than keeping you down. I refuse to be part of some movement like "Occupy" because I don't believe people that acted legally to make money should be punished. I think we need to act and fix the flaws of the system and I think the political system as it stands needs a major overhaul and regulation but the market its doing alright. I'd like to be part of the upper-class and in the current system I have a good chance of obtaining that. I believe strongly in capitalism and freedom. The system we have is fair, it does provide for self-improvement of individuals. Are there problems? Yes, minorities and groups of people(lots of the withe...and men) were placed at a disadvantage for years and are struggling to make up for lost ground just so they can actually have a chance. That said, its not my fault or my problem. Everyone has the opportunity get as far as any one else, the amount of work need to get that far differs from case to case but ultimately everyone has the chance if they work hard enough.

Honestly the problems America has are not due to some lofty scapegoat. No, the blame falls on each and every American. We allowed education to slip, we let our social organization(civil society) fall apart, and we stopped ensuring we were informedon important issues and became happy with yellow journalism, we stopped being poltically active, and we fell pray to the worstthing of all: party politics. In short we got lazy and now we're pissed off that things started to fall apart just because we stopped taking care of them. The system we have worked and can work, the reforms needed could be made, things could be fine if we got off our asses and tried but we don't. No, we decide to blame people. we blame Europe, we blame China, we blame the criminals we put in office, we blame the most rich, we blame the poor, we blame race, we blame any thing and everyone but ourselves. The sooner we admit that and do something real the better. Rather than standing in the streets bitching, we ought to be throwing the corrupt politicans out, dismantling political parties, talking to each other about politics, rebuilding civil society, promoting education, and working our asses off.

>>150
Bump for about to read this but it is not broken up very well so it difficult to read fluidly.

to my suggestion the economy is going pretty bad lately

>>150 I'm sorry but I could only read half the bullshit you wrote especially after you stayed that the USA isn't a baby race isn't a factor anymore except for people who are like me and that bs you said about colleges

You put your own personal opinion out there and made sure to exclude the questions I had asked in other posts and assumed that My personal beliefs were put into what I wrote I did nothing more but state facts and cases that prove the viewpoint I was trying to get others to see

Then you said that I needed to go review history you proven that your naiive in this matter and turn your head to specific things in history

And if you actually went to look up those court cases you will find they are used un court cases today sure the one about women was overturned but that's not My point My point was those court cases were used as examples to shape the constitution the only picture you see is the one in front of you and you seem only to care about your own well being and state and not others when it comes to politics

You state that we blame everyone else but ourselves which is true

But you don't seem to understand that we have people who are suppose to represent us but aren't and because they aren't we go unheard so movements and protestors come out and how can a person work their asses off if their is no jobs

You say what we need to do but don't say where the issue arose only state where it didn't


In anycase I'm done replying to this thread till I see a good reaponce and not a personal viewpoint people need to open their eyes to somethings and stop watching only one news channel I watch Russia today ABC news CNN NHK world and read new York times Washington post the root etc just so I can get more then on viewpoint of the world its intresting

Also here is a question to think about America is suppose to have limited government it says this in the constitution it also says the government doesn't rule over is but we rule over it do you think and feel this is the case today?

who the hell cares

>>154 obviously a lot of people. if you don't think politics or the economy effects you then you're stupid dude. besides that, if you aren't into debating or talking about how politics or the economy is doing, then please don't post here at all. just leave this thread alone.

You should care. Thats what the dollars are about.

>>156 Eh, not really, sorry. The Dollars really have no goal or mission; still he/she should care because politics and the economy affect all of us. So unless you don't give a damn about your own welfare, you really should care.

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Wondering what will happen now in light of the death of Kim Jong il, his son is in his thirties, i know he cant instantly undermine everything his father has set in place even if he had his own opinions because of the many people around him.

I think the U.S. will now have a better opening to try and get some people to have an ear from the regime... actually thats what i thought until i found out that borders are tighter more than ever.. so hmmm

OPINIONS? been busy helping my folks out so am not sure havent looked into alot of things but that is how i have it from what I have learned so far from the news.

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yeah bump on that comeon opinions about what will happen to korea now

WHHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO /o/ yeAhhhhHhhHhH.

economics and politics! 8D who else is psyched?

Yeah the younger generation are not so focused on monotony and uselessness

+1 for being actually informed about shit

something worth discussing

damnit, somewhere else here someone ripped on me for adding to something like this, saying politics doesn't belong here, yet 166 posts?
well i guess i can post my thoughts here...

this is one of the big problems with our economy, the u.s.a borrows money from the federal reserve (no relation to federal government) at interest. therefor we have to pay back the initial loan + interest.

with that in mind, if we take our initial loan and spend it on products from other countries, we spend said money with no hope of it returning. for this to work, we would need to create some sort of revenue, but how? you might ask? well we could very well SELL american items to other countries. therefor gaining money to pay off said loan and interest.

then america would be free of the noose tied by the private bankers and a government owned currency could be instated.
then people in that country would have a monetary form of currency that could be circulated without the entire country legally being in that much amount of debt.

thats just one thing on my mind though :P

u craps making me double post. but it's still worth discussing! 8D

and i didnt mean 'politics' as much as i did 'economy & government'
not a political view, but views of the people on the government as a whole. not half and half.

I hope our economy/politics fall apart once and for all. Politics is a flawed concept, as they're all opinion and aren't based on facts. Why should I ever have an opinion on something and a say it what happens if I don't know a thing about it? That's as retarded as a plane company letting me design the plane that millions of people will eventually fly in. I should have zero say in that as I know nothing about aerodynamics or mechanics of flight/planes. We've outgrown the need for money at all. We have more then enough of everything we need and even some of our wants. The day people starved not because of lack of food in the world, but because of lack of purchasing power proves our economy is beyond outdated and money isn't even needed anymore. There are other rewards besides a piece of paper with fancy designs on it, or even worse, a digital number. Not only that, but all money created has a debt on it that can never be repaid due to interest. That piece of mathematics alone already show that it will collapse under the weight of it's impossible and faulty ambition at some point. Whether the people cause it by realizing that we don't need to buy crap to continue the economy/refuse to, or if it'll just collapse horribly remains to be seen. That's my two cents on the matter at any rate.

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wow. all the way to 80's now. this is getting sadder. it's only one day after christmas >_> shouldn't you all be outside playing with your new stuff?

>>172 Money is the medium for equalizing exchanges between people. Without this, it's hard to make any sort of transaction with anyone. Remember that regardless of whether or not there is an economic system, people by nature have demands and a limited supply of things. The economy is implemented to create a fairer system of trade than the tried and outdated practice of a barter system.

Of course it's flawed, though. It's been in place for thousands of years and on too large of a scale in recent history for it to be perfected all at once. This is why things like debt occur.

Be thankful that it's a middleman, though. I'd rather have debt over digital numbers and pieces of paper than debt over food.

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For one kaori your ignorant on the topic of immigration, two this whole economic crises was set in motion before Obama.

>>182 I have to agree with you there. This all started many presidents before Obama. It got greatly worse with the last president, Bush, and now Obama is here trying his best to clean up after everything. Those in the US may not like the way he is doing it, but I think it's best to suck it up and see what happens. (I personally hope Obama is re-elected so we can see the result of this. It's not going to help if new plans are set in motion every four years with new presidents--since, of course, Americans aren't going to be happy with any president until this is over because many are ignorant to how long it takes for things to be fixed) but none of them get the chance to continue for longer than that. The only way we'll know if it's working is with time.

Every country has many of its own reasons for spiraling into chaos, and it's happening quickly. God knows the US is never going to finish paying off its debt for at least a few hundred years, which is the same situation for many other countries who are in even more debt than the Americans. Who knows? Maybe the US won't have to pay it back because it, or other countries, will be gone by then.

I feel that the world is going to have to hit rock bottom before anything can be done. Unfortunately for us pedestrians, rock bottom is going to hit us years before it hits those in power (as it always has been), so we'll be suffering for a while before the ball of depression hits the head of authority and makes them think, "Oh, shit. We knew something was wrong, but we didn't think it would bother us! We thought those silly civilians were just being dramatic! Well, now that we're affected, let's do something about it." Some people may have friends in politics or have a romanticized view of politics, but this is reality as it has been happening for thousands of years.

I feel I'm too uneducated to comment on the state of the entire world, but I have my opinion regarding the only way for the world to get out of this: hit rock bottom and then climb back up. Only the countries that don't mind scraping their knees to do it are going to reach the top again, and those that don't have a good grip on it all are going to fall and break their necks. The end of this isn't going to come until long after most of us, our children, our grand children, and probably our great grand children (at this rate) are dead, but I do feel it will eventually reach that point.

Again, I'm not educated on politics well enough, so this is where I end my comment.

>>183 Sorry, my grammar got a little screwy in that rant. Please overlook the periodic mistakes.

I agree with what you said BarabiSama, but change could happen now!
The world is waking up to what's been done to them, and I truly believe the world has the ability to sustain its self, and have happy people.
Governments seem to not look at the future of globalization.

>>185 What, in rainbow-happy-funtime land? I highly doubt anything is going to happen now. If it does happen, it will probably be way too sudden for the world to handle it, and we'll go through a period of shock and then slip back down to where we were. I honestly don't see how something like that is possible. First of all, there's no such thing as everyone being happy in the world. That doesn't happen. Second of all, well, we'll think of one issue: Inflation. Inflation can't be magically cured in a year. Heck, it can't be cured in five years. Or ten. Or twenty. The money usually has to slowly gain its value unless some sudden thing occurs where debt magically disappears and some war is instantaneously won and every country starts to produce and sell it's own products with more exports than imports.
Third, I don't see "what's been done to them". Who is them? What happened to them? Who did it? And the world may sustain itself, but sustaining itself is generally just barely there. It's proficient. Anything can be proficient with effort, but proficient =/= good. It's the bare minimum, which is just at/above where we are now. We need to be above proficient for things to be going well, so we need to be able to do more than just sustain ourselves.

BarabiSama I believe change will happen soon.
It may not be good; hell it may entail a war, but people are taking notice in first world country's as are third world country's.

>>187 To add to the argument country's are waking up to there basic human rights....

>>188
But if you believe change, real change can't happen? You're only fucking your self. Keep this in mind "Wars are fought over oil, the next ones will be fought over water."

>>189 I said nothing about fake change :/ Fact of the matter is, change takes time. I don't see why people have such a hard time accepting that. I didn't say change wasn't going to happen; rather, I said it would take time.

Change doesn't have to take time when it is happening right now.
Sounds like change is coming pretty fast to me.
I do agree big change does take time.

>>192 Change is happening, but very little of it is good. We're still spiraling down into chaos. "Oh, god. Something is wrong here." Just because people noticed it doesn't mean it's getting fixed. Very little has changed. We're still in a crisis. The crisis is still getting worse. We haven't even gotten around to fixing anything yet because the crisis hasn't paused long enough to give us a chance to; how are things changing quickly in a good light? I don't see it.

>>192 unless you're China

I think we either need fresh eyes to the problems facing the world, such as new leaders, or we need already existing leaders to try stepping up. I'm not saying no one's trying to fix things, but I feel like some aren't trying as much as we'd hope

Hmf the Economic and Political State of the world will keep being worse and worse and worse

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Best Case: America Slowly declines over the next century and dies gracefully. It will probably split into smaller nations or be invaded at that point.

Worst Case: China overtakes america technologicly by 2020. This, coupled with the fact that america exports very little and imports huge amounts causes an economic crisis. To compensate america starts printing more money. This leads to hyper-inflation and the american dollar becomes worthless (ie. $1000 for a loaf of bread, I'm NOT exagerating). As money becomes worthless, riots will break out as people desperately try to get as much of anything as possible.America will desperately ask for foreign aid, saying its time for everyone else to come to their aid. Foreign nations will refuse, stating that they are still owed billions by the US government. America will collapse catastrophicly. Its remains will be invaded by foreign powers, mainly India, China and Japan. This will not last long however as those countries will also have an economic disaster because america is no longer there to by their exports. Without America to keep the peace Africa will break out into numerous conflicts as enthnic wars restart and dictators start to realize theres no longer anything in their way. Russia will become the most powerfull nation on the planet as it will have the magority of the oil and natural gas deposits, and it may also turn back to communism. Australasia will likely suffer economic upheavals at that point as Russia will have effectively cornered the electrical market. The remains of America will also be flooded by people from overpopulated countries which will likely worsen the worlds already dire situation. The world will likely take several centuries to recover, and theirs no telling what it'd be like.

Unfortunately, at the moment the worst case option is more likely than the best case, as America is spending to much money aiding foreign nations and not enough fixing itself.

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"This leads to hyper-inflation and the american dollar becomes worthless (ie. $1000 for a loaf of bread, I'm NOT exagerating)."

I like to think I'm worth it.

Whoops, 205 is >>202

Well there r billions of natural resources under us right now

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The road to our economic and political future will be, just like this thread... Bumpy *serious face*

>>5

Rhetorical question: Are you a millionaire? do you know what it takes to become one; or how every day you drill urself and endured and innovated to become rich? Telling rich people to just "spend their money" is highly unrealistic; no offence. Just put yourself in their shoes.

>>210 Right on

OWG!!!! :O

*ahhhh runs away and finds a cave and begins hoarding food and putting furniture and multiple floors in cave and becomes an awesome hermit*

(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻ on ur epic hermit cave
Lol

the dollars r on

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Bump cause of the Obama thread

Bump... cuz I can!

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i feel that the world is heading to a collapse of the economic kind that will simultianously echo throught every nation and eventualy form a global economy and one of two things will happen. either the world will sucomb or we will be made too, but eventualy we will all fall into the new world order. there is evidence to suport this thoery.

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Lets face it...
We're basically todays roman empire, and as great as it was THAT fell to ruin...

>>1 I'm not really that well versed when it comes to economy and politics but what I know is that people should be informed of what's going on and they should be allowed to take part in resolving the crisis. Here in my country (Philippines) there is still a struggle to educate the younger generations and also in history, there have been difficulties in educating people, therefore, even older people have difficulty in understanding the verbatim. This and the control of the government over the media keeps people in the dark when it comes to issues regarding politics and economy. .. I don't know how much I strayed from the topic but please don't burn me ;)

a plus b equals c deez nuhts

>>235 GTFO

>>234 I understand where you're coming from, and it is certainly a very pertinent matter when it comes down to the economy of the Philippines, however I am not too aware of economics outside of The USA, so i have no idea how relevant this is to other areas in the world. That being said, i feel like there is more to the issue of what's going on in the economy of the USA than just people being hush-hush about what they are doing and what company is buying what and so on and so on.

bumping for order

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In the end, us, the humans,will destroy ourselves when we A) Run out of resources. B) Kill Ourselves using war as genocide on a global scale. Or C)OR We can rise up and take OUR country back. It's WE THE PEOPLE- Our Founding Fathers gave us the right that if they fuck up: We take them out and build a better country and learn from our mistakes...it's too late for "C" though. We've already passed the point of no return. That's just my opinion on Politics.
-Deilo

When exactly did we lose our country?

Also I think it's funny you switched from talking of humanity to talking about America with no transition at all.

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I'm not looking forward to it. Sooner or later, the S that's been slowly building up in global politics and national policies will finally hit the F, and that is NOT going to be a pretty sight. Still, nothing you can do but keep on voting and keep on living, eh?

I think the worse case scenario may also be the best case scenario. I think the worse/best case is economies will collapse everywhere. 99% of the worlds people become jobless. Since they can't pay taxes governments collapse. The ideas of generation Y (A.K.A. the millennials) get accepted. The ideas of no ego, no edge no and no anger. Racism will decline, social/economic hierarchies collapse. People will be humbled by poverty and in the end compassion will rise in the hearts of the destitute. The other 1% won't have anyone to mop their yachts so eventually the other 99% will get hired, government will increase in size and new economies will be born.

Our current state of the world is like the phoenix. It has to burn before it is reborn. I don't mean burn in a violent or intentional way. I mean burn like a forest after a lightening storm. Without the some sort of divine clearance of the old trees there is no room of the younger trees to grow.

hell

We are fucked either way. Peace would never be an option cuz someone always screws up.

This is the beginning of the end

The world? Considering all of the religious and political depravity consuming most of it, combined with poor resources for many areas, I'd say pretty grim. My country's not perfect, but I'd like to think we're better off than most others.

We in America are now in what has been termed 'The Great Recession', the worst economic downturn since the Great Depression. I believe that it is natural for such downturns to occur periodically, and that soon we will be on the upswing once again.

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*Epic explosion* XD

I'm expecting an epic change in economic and political philosophies, Something less materialistic, cause one thing is for sure, if the answer to the future is "lets buy more things!" We are fucked.

Not if i try to make a change! Im not giving up on some dumbass crisis i joined the dollars to try and help out not just talk to others plz evry1 DON'T GIVE UP

I hope that our country will be better, or at least in less debt.

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something else for you to discuss.

i think that the way we r heading now is going to bring us all down. the government will only protect the "important" people and leave us, the weak ones, to defend for ourselves. they r already preparing for the new world order which will happen soon without us knowing it. they r already making a law for people who own guns to give it away, but if they refuse, they will be killed. sure, guns can be dangerous, but they also can protect us. their plan is to leave us defenseless n bring destruction to all of us.but what can we do, were just people who only came here cuz of our mothers and fathers n the oppurtunity to be successful when we grow up, but the unemployment rate is bombing and violence and rage is occuring in our streets, our nation. AND THERE IS NOTHING WE CAN DO ABOUT IT. unless we stop judging others and lend a helping hand. THE DOLLARS

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the USA having a war-based economy will find itself in new all time lows soon as the interference wars from the USA are more and more shunned world wide, It is now a common "joke" that if Oil is found in your country the USA will come and "free" you, will "help" you become a "democratic" country.

so people will get tired of the wars of the USA and its economy will suffer, worldwide unrest may follow 1 of 2 paths, mainly.

1.- people will understand that the current state of the small ammount of people having all the riches and letting you rot in poverty and actually encouraging you to become indebted and so poorer can be stopped and they will take back the world by any means necesary while in the way a new way of life could be born

2.- the schemes of the groups of people who feed off of the rest of the world would come to a success with them becoming as close to a god as any man can be, in the way of power, so we all would become their slaves and live in a unpayable debt while they enjoy life's bounty.

there could be other options but most likely I see either theese two happening.

>>277 The US has a war based economy? Lulzno.

>>278
Not necessarily a war based economy but at least one that feeds off it. Consider, where a certain country, which has been ravaged by war, borrows money?

>>277
Lol'ed on the "joke".

>>279>>278 War is used so were dont focus on the economy, therefore we have a war based economy. No? Damn.

My Generation? We're doomed...

>>279 I don't even understand what you're trying to say...

>>280 No, we have a service based economy.

A war based economy is one that would thrive and profit off of foreign wars. The US doesn't profit from wars. We lose money. Take for example weapons. No US weapon manufacturer has any military contract with a foreign government. The only weapons our government produces are Colt weapons, whose rights belong to our military. Which means our military makes the guns our military uses, thus no profits. There are a few exceptions, such as Army Rangers using a Beretta M9 handgun instead of a Colt.

>>282 Pardon. We're still consumer based. About 70% of our economy is based off consumer spending alone.

>>282
That's it. After the war, America then builds infrastructures and whatnot, helping the country to get up. And all that money goes down that country's account as debt, with or without interest, that I don't know.

>>284 Okay, so if we go break something, then we fix it. And? Any debt that might accumulate from any scenario such as that doesn't cover the cost we spend on war. We still lose money.

We're screwed.

I think that the debt of the country will keep on piling, the poor will get poorer and the rich get even richer. Life sucks for us chums that have some tough competition in our fields and I'm pretty it's a gentle, but downhill slope. Still, I don't think it's really all that bad but it could be a bit better if our economical situation doesn't sink any further.

naive. . . the USA's economy is war based, if not tell me why out of the 200 and something years of history of the USA almost 200 years have at least one big military operation going on?

do you really believe the USA's government tries to help other countries while their own country has such hard issues as grave criminals with low sentences, low criminals with high sentences, drug cartels issues, a lot of extremism from different groups internally, recessions and whatnot.

there is no way any country can keep up the war effort for that long if no profits are earned, the economy would have been crushed long ago if the war did not turn profits. that is a fact.

>>288 Read posts >>282>>282>>283. We're a consumer based economy.

Now the US is 236 years old. Major conflicts including the Mexican-American War, WWI, WWII, Vietnam, Korea, and the War on Terror have taken a total of 46 years all together. No, we haven't spent 200 years in war.

Um, no, that is not a fact. That's total shit. The economy wouldn't have been crushed, because it's not war based, it's consumer based.

Just to add to the war talk--and please, correct me if I'm wrong--but isn't America backwards in that they tend to give money to the people they defeat rather than take money? We discussed this in history last year, so I don't quite remember the details. As far as I know, though, America has never had any major efforts to try and turn a profit in response to war like many of the countries before it.

>>290 I think they do to help rebuild their economy.

America is a very charitable nation, they aren't selfish at all. Oh man, I'm laughing as I type that!

>>292 I bet you live in America too.

>>293 Tends to be the case. We in America tend to talk ourselves down more than any other country ever could. It's mainly due to the fact that very little of the American public learns about things happening beyond our borders.

As for people of the other nations, America tends to be a target of hate regardless of whether we provide aid or not. In this sense, I have something that'll bother them more than our international policy.

After all, YOLO cuz we gots all the swag over here. Amur'ca!!

>>294 I feel like half the time, they hate us either because of ignorance, or they're just pissy because we have the power to get involved in foreign affairs all the time.

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bump for pre/post election day discussion
Do you think there will be riots if Romney wins?
Do you think the economy will fail if Obama wins

Discuss, discuss, people!

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Bang...Bang !!

# TT_TT

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Hi guys

I'm so sad now because I finished durarara. Thinking there was another season

IKR, i seriously should stop watching gd animes cause of the pain i feel when it ends

Me too :( Why isn't any season 2 of drrr? ;-;

>>318>>319>>320>>321
Way to derail the thread, guys.

Take this chatter somewhere else.

or I will knifegun you to the face.

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cvbj

Once america falls other countries become more powerful and eventually will start to even out their debts. Since the cost of america would be gone than the lesser countries would owe less than they do now. There is no money in nothing. America is a very insufficient country and yes technically america is the true cause of others in different countries going wild. America only and always will just care about nothing but itself. America calling itself rich isn't a complement but a remembrance of its selfish desires of greed and pure gluttony.

._.

Kanra-chan, what are you doing there? :3

just find a new world :v

sou ka =w=

In all honesty? Its heading down hill as far as mentality goes. People are acting less like people, and more like mindless sheep feeding into whatever lies they are sold.

I think what will happen to the world is it will end thanks to everyone. Think about it everyone is mad at everyone about Oil, Gas and Food. If we don't do something to change the outcome the world will fall to it's knees and die

How did i get hear

astasf

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I'm waiting for the economic collapse.

>>342 I already did over here in Portugal

I think everything will end in a 3rd World War.But I sure hope its doesnt because may not be able to enjoy anime and mange after that

I think everything will end in a 3rd World War.But I sure hope its doesnt because I may not be able to enjoy anime and mange after that

>>344 3rd World War ? And when will that happen my dear boy/girl ?

>>344 yes I do believe that there will be a Third World War in the future needless to say that the amount of time remaining before that happens depends on countless variables.

we've gotten pretty close to a WWIII a few times already, in the past 10 years

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I've got the impression WWIII won't be a direct state war.. but more an internet war..

i agree with >>348 and >>351!

dfg

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State of the world currently: Better than what they could be. No major wars, most problems are self-contained.
Best case: World "peace" will take over, global economy and national economies begin to balance out.
Worst case: WW3
Our generation: If things keep going the way they are, we're screwed. No one values education anymore. I may bellyache about school, but I know that it will be helpful sometime. Just not algebra...
All in all; currently ok, but we need to change a few things to get our course set right.

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>>219 what the bloody hell does that mean?

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>>362 That was in response to the SOPA thing and how everything would get censored and shit.

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Euro crisis anybody? If EU collapses... I don't know how likely that is, but what if... Europe has more or less been the most powerful part of the world for centuries... (Maybe except for the USA). I think that this will soon change. Who will become the new superpowers? China?

China is really, really possible to be the next "main" country..

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Ok im dealing with hackers and i also have hack but i use them for good. this guy who is a jurk is bullying me and my friend hayden. can anyone help??

Nigga you cray cray quit tripping and suck a dick

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well, it depends on if humans have a desire to change. humans regularly have very closed minds, like a pistachio, though it only takes a little self force and determination to open, but for so many years for it to stay the same way, would be practically impossible in my opinion, since so many people that have open minds in the first place would change anything in just a matter of a day. the united states government might become a dictatorship in a week, or dictatorships a democracy the next day. it all depends on the desire to change.

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I agree White. If the people change. The economy and the political crap the world may change for the better.

I think that everything will go down the crapper cause of the president that should be impeached already....:/ and yes i just pointed a finger at someone already... but oh well, what happens, happens and that is all i have to say in my childish view. ^_^

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So~ how many people here talk spanish ?

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Stage 1 Feeling of Normalcy
It's expected that a mass group of people living under relatively good times not to expect the worst to happen. Good times meaning most people are able to afford basic commodities and leisure (even this is possible during a re session).

Seeing as how the U.S.A. has been a world super power for decades now, it's also expected for people to indulge themselves in relentless pride for their country (especially in times of war) also in other words patriotism. Yeah that's all fine and dandy but when signs of the country going under present themselves, they're quickly ignored because of blind patriotism. ( all I'm saying is take it easy, you don't have to hate your country to think logically).

Stage 2 People refuse to give into the truth and accept dire consequences.

Stage 3 Major change in government or society, Usually bad.

I cant really sum up as to whether or not there is an eminent doom to the United states because I'm no economist. I'm just taking it as a Senior in High School, third week of the course btw. But it's evident that if there was to be some sort of disaster in the near future, mostly everyone will remain clueless. Not cause they're stupid but because they're just ordinary people.

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It will become gone -3-

I cant say what will happen. Things will probably get worse before they get better. I do believe they will get better though.

It's up to us to make it better.

I've read Ishmael before and well, if you've read it.. Just think about how the example of a man trying to fly was given the false allusion of being eternally above the ground, however he was actually gliding, getting slowly closer to the ground and didn't realize it until it was too late that he was.. well.. screwed lol.

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When it comes to the current state of the USA, with our government shutting itself down and all, not to mention the infighting that has become so prevalent in our states/senate/house/ and our society really. It's a constant battle fought in the name of the few and not the many, with no one really focusing on the true problems we have in the country. I Place no blame whatsoever on any party, because almost everyone is at fault for the decline of what was once considered a great nation, which is now quite hated by the rest of the world(In my experiences, at least) In recent months, with Edward Snowden leaking information and subsequently fleeing to Russia, causing massive tension between the US government and other UN countries, I think that the worst case scenario is all-out world war 3. Other countries see the US' reaction to it being leaked that they not only spied on the American public(Which by their own admission, and previous laws the were struck down 10 years ago, was baseless and illegal) but also had programs in place to spy on other countries in the name of the war on terror. It leads them to think that the only reason it truly matters, is because they got caught in the act. At this point I am sad to think that the will be no redeeming of the American people in the eyes of these other countries. I feel that the best case scenario would be that we could maybe find a way to settle our petty differences, and to strike a balance of what some would call peace. Between the fact that our country is collapsing in on itself, due to our extreme debt and sociopolitical issues, as well as the hatred directed at us from countries that our government "helps" ( I use that term very, very loosely) that the decline is so far that it would take the effort of everyone in this country to pull it up, if it is at all possible now. People of the US now will try to place the blame upon anyone else, from the President(Which has nowhere near the power people want to think he does)to blaming the people of our generation for our cultural disintegration. Nothing can get better until everyone, myself included, to take a part of this unto themselves. It was not one person that caused this, nor one specific iteration of Presidential Administration, but something that has been an issue for decades, yet older generations do not want to believe that their's was capable of what actually happened.
TL;DR I hope that the US can pull out of the issues we are having, so that there may actually be a United States for the next generation, to improve upon what the previous generations almost destroyed.

all of them need to improve.

Okay first off, this is a difficult question because when ever one is dealing with world issues, you have to discuss multiple problems or solutions dealing with different types of governments and different countries. I will choose to address the U.S.. The prevalent problem in the U.S. government is the battle between liberals and conservatives, with that said some will say,"No its Democrats vs. Republicans!". Well more so than not Democrats are Liberals and Republicans are Conservatives. Liberals believe the government should have more involvement in the peoples lives however not like a ruler or an entity with infinite power, whereas Conservatives believe that the government should have little to do with the everyday lives of citizens. With all that explained, I feel I must apologize to the Conservative side, because there's just absolutely no way the people can pull themselves out of this. I am not a Liberal by the way either or a Conservative, I could care less about assuming the title of either. Now for the Liberals, look at what your government has done. They've shut themselves down while trying to come up with a budget for Obama Care or whatever that system is. And look at how the people reacted. Conservatives, isn't this what you wanted? Now that the government is shut down people are complaining left and right because it is shut down, where as I would be complaining because congress and the president are still BEING PAID. You see I believe in the citizens taking action, not choosing a side. It is up to the citizens to dictate how the government acts or behaves. If the people allow them to mess up this bad than it is completely the peoples fault it is happening not the governments. If I had the resources to quickly and effectively bring and end to every congress member and every cabinet member including the president believe me I would. There needs to be a major shift in power in favor of the U.S. people, as in the government needs to be told what to do, not tell it's people what to do. In times like this all the U.S. citizens can do is twidle their thumbs until the government is back up and running. Unless they are willing to take up the arms they're trying so hard to keep in their possesion and change the country from the outside in. After that at least for a small while, the government would have to regulate the economy almost in a communist fashion to get rid of their debt, people will not like this but it's the only solution besides war. I say war because if the U.S. defeated China, which is not very likely, then the U.S. could choose to not pay the Chinese back, or charge the Chinese portions of the amount as reparations from war. However that is not even a real option(going to war). So the U.S. government would have to become communistic at least economically for a while till a surmountable amount of their immense debt is paid off. This concludes my response to the original question.

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The world will collapse on itself. The constitution will have no meaning. War is reduced to theatrics. Politicians are reduced to figureheads. Theres no government conspiracies. Only intense political reform, civil unrest, anarchy. People will grow more paranoid and eventually revolt. Its happening in egypt, its happening in iraq. Its starting in America. When its all done, the world is ushered into the next era. From medival to renaissance to colonial to industrial to pre-modern to modern. There's been hundreds of revolutions but the world continues to recede. Call me melodramatic if youd like but this is where America is heading.

>>414 I can sound just as urgent as you if I tried but in the end you didn't really make an argument of any sort. You just kinda said a lot of edgy things that are probably somewhat true if you try really hard to give reason to it, but all that proves is you could probably write a hollywood blockbuster. Just change everything in your post to present tense and add "IN A WORLD, WHERE" to the beginning.

To assume a downhill slope continues to infinity is basically conspiracy theorizing. Things tend to balance on a macro scale, no matter how much shit people get into. On a somewhat smaller scale, greed and corruption happens to balance out what would otherwise be a perfect era of surplus and contentment. It's just a given feedback.

Even if one of the current world powers somehow find themselves in terrible situations, that means somewhere else in the world is doing better. It isn't going to go to hell overnight, and honestly, even if it did, someone would find a way to take advantage of it and stabilize the balance of power. That's how it's worked since even before medieval times, and if there's one concept of sociology I believe in, it's that natural progression.

>>416 if you read the end of my melodramatic rant, you'd see that I stated clearly that the world will be repaired. So many revolutions have happened in history. So many unforgivable things were done. Yet, here we all are. No grudges, no crying over spilt blood. We're all unified economically, socially and politically. There was no "edgy" side to it. It's an accurate representation of the world today. Reforms and revolutions mark the coming ages. That Is irrefutable fact.

As far as the U.S. goes there are some major problems with how the two party system has been working. When passing a bill in both the Senate and the House the bill has to achieve a majority vote and in some cases more than that. i.e.(2/3s vote etc.). Theoretically moderates and independent party voters are the most important people when deciding majority votes because obviously they have separate opinions from the majority of their party and can be swayed to vote for or against a bill. Whats happening now is that we are running out of moderate politicians.

For the past few years the parties have become incredible hard lining. Conservatives vote conservative because they are conservative. Without fail a Republican senator will follow the party orders and vote for the "Typical" Republican view no matter what he thinks personally or what the American people think. Of course this is the same for Democrats so don't think i'm biased.The worst part of it is that people with moderate or mixed views are victimized for it. An intelligent man with good ideas and strong support for those ideas who is a republican who also happens to believes in gay marriage will lose in an election to an idiot that has nothing to offer but agrees with everything the old hat GOP tells him to agree with.

This is also a good example of how money can control an election pretty easily. Say and i don't mean to offend anyone here but say two Democrats run for the primary Senate election in idk.... Pennsylvania. One guy (lets call him John) is really moderate and has both Conservative and Liberal economic ideas. He plans on voting for spending cuts as well as increases in Federal programs for the poor. He has Liberal social views like abortion and gay marriage. But he doesn't like ObamaCare and thinks the banks shouldn't be bailed out. The other candidate (lets call him Bob), is "typically" Liberal he believes gay marriage is awesome, abortion is cool, openly talks about how he loves ObamaCare, jumps in when they talk about FEMA, and plans on voting to shoot up government spending. I'd light $20,000 on fire if the Democratic party didn't back Bob and backed John instead.

Bob is a yes man. He'll vote for anything the Democratic National Convention says to vote for. And because of that he will receive several Anonymous Checks for his campaign fund with lots of zeros. Bob will win that election because he has a commercial on every channel in the state every twenty minutes. John will lose because he never got that random money and people had no idea who he was.

Until moderates start to reappear in the government, CONGRESS IS USELESS, everyone bashes the president but for the past few years Congress has killed any chance of change from the White House. Our big problem is lack of movement we need to pump in a few Moderate congressman and get the blood flowing. We need REAL DEBATE not
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Arguing like that does no one any good and yet thats how congress has been for nearly 10 years.

And thats all i've got to say about that.

Oh shit that was long my bad

well, i personally think that America is spiraling into the world of debt and i think that america wont ever be able to pay that back..and i kinda like john ^^ sorry if i chose wrong..

In this world we as a world not america or china or anyone else who would like to say america is the problem but heres what i see i agree a bit with sairams post people will always follow the popular person nomatter where you go in the world it happends but the world has a recourd of bad things happening on it one country doesnt controll the earth but all countrys kinda do to me i see is most people will proble look out for a 1 and dont lie and say you dont but isnt that the thing what ever happend to care for one another not as one f
orce but one community is it that hard to debait amongest eachother and let humanity grow but keep in mind every thing has a purpose same as every one i see that even if america doesnt inter fear badd things will still happen because its happend before i mean look at the jenoside in ruwanda or people be killed in the middle east if we can change how this is going even in america it happend we all are human why cant we find solutions to our problems and look up ward toward the future

>>420 Thats what i mean John is the better candidate but Bob still gets elected. The system blows

I decree this thread bump worthy!

As a non-American I object to a thread about the economic fate of the world being exclusively about America (because really, the international economic and political systems are much more complex and interconnected than that), but I'll play along.

Personally, I think that it will take a lot more than what is going on right now to bring America down. Even after the recession, the US still has the strongest and most innovative economy in the world. I think the biggest threat right now is that US companies could fall behind in emerging industries. The green industry in the US is suffering because of the political support for the oil and natural gas industry, artificially keeping that industry competitive and beating down alternatives is only allowing other, more forward thinking countries to support the development of such technologies. Hi-tech software and computer companies may also feel threatened due to the recent revelations about the US government intrusions into that industry and choose to go somewhere where they might be left alone. Altogether though, these aren't terribly severe threats, the US should be able to maintain its global economic domination for the foreseeable future, barring any major changes.

In terms of the debt ceiling and rising deficit, right now it is still working, honestly I'm not an expert on this topic, but my understanding is that the way the government is funding their debt is relatively sustainable. Really, the biggest danger there is for this is the debt ceiling not being raised, leading to a loss of faith in the dollar, and an economic downturn. (On a side note, allowing congress use the debt ceiling as a hostage to get their policy agenda some time in the spotlight is just a ridiculous system).

Militarily there is no real threat to the US, the US still has a defense budget greater than the next few countries combined, and is the definite world leader in military technology. China will be a threat, eventually, but right now they are still in the process of modernizing their military, and they haven't had a chance to field test it yet. It's possible there will be a limited conflict over the Senkaku/Daioyu (sp?) islands, but I doubt that will expand beyond an air and sea war with limited strikes against mainland military targets by both sides. Even if it is a conflict between Japan and China, US involvement is almost guaranteed, and it will be very interesting to see how the Chinese military compares to that of the US.

Politically, things are interesting. The US political system is fundamentally broken, electoral financing, gerrymandering, the primary system, the lobbyist system, not to mention partisan media would all need some sort of overhaul before the US can once again be considered a free and fair democracy. If trends continue, there will continue to be restrictions of civil liberties in the name of greater security (specifically protection against terrorism), but the extent to which these will be tolerated is hard to predict. Resistance to this is scattered and disunited, with groups that manage to get into the spotlight (such as Occupy Wallstreet) lacking any real leadership or set goals that can be pursued. Once again, no real changes should be expected for the immediate future.

This Bob fellow seems like a free thinking individual.. Don't criticize his opinions, John. Let him shoot up heroine if he wants to.

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"Bread and Circuses". It was something that went on in ancient Rome. Shows on the street and entertainment kept the population's mind off government issues. I believe this is currently going on. Entertainment is keeping most people's minds off what is happening to the government and economy. Taxes and gas prices are unstable... The money distribution is completely out of whack. Professional athletes and artists are paid so much compared to people who have actual important jobs that help people... Like construction workers... and so many jobs that most people don't know exist. Honestly I believe all this entertainment, reality shows and such are keeping the population's minds off issues coming from the government. And please, if some of my facts are off, let me know.

Can we just take the time to marvel at the fact that this debate will probably go on forever?

You're all going to call me a tinfoil hat lunatic for this prediction, but I'm going to say it anyways. This prediction is based on what would happen if we all allow politics to carry on as it currently happens and is subject to change given the actions of dedicated groups and political activists:

Politically: fears of terrorism and want of stopping illegal content on the Internet will cause significant increases in digital restrictions and loss of privacy. Corporations will try to use a combination of lobbying and products with flaws and digital locks to control your freedom with what you can do to your computer. Most people will not realize this, as it will be spun as a positive, and most people do not understand or care about the slow digital creep on freedom. Increasingly, computers will be replaced with appliances that don't do quite as much and may include malicious features (like spying on the user or containing deliberate backdoors). Again, the users won't understand that the iPhone 12 will be recording them and be illegal to jailbreak. Corporations will continue to try to gain the power to censor what you get to see and say if they think it will make them any money, and the government will probably go along with some of it.


Police and government organizations will gain more power to try to solve crimes, though this will go against the need to get a warrant. This will be both through digital means resembling the NSA prism program and through labeling people as terrorists so as to be able to arrest them and detain them against their constitutional rights. Most people will actually support this as the threats of criminals and terrorists will be played up to use fear as a motivator. Cases like Guantanamo bay will make the news once in a while, but fear will cause people to willingly surrender a worrying amount of their rights without thinking too hard over the possibility of an encroaching oppressive government, though the truly oppressive stuff is still decades away.


In economics, the corporations with enough lobbying power will do quite well for a while as they continue to lobby congress for more laws benefiting them at the cost of the workers. The government will cut benefits from unemployment to health-care programs to retirement funds. Depending on how bad it gets, they might even repeal laws against workplace discrimination in order to help the businesses that are still too big to fail. I also predict another economic meltdown coming within 12 years. The size is unclear, but there's no reason it couldn't rival the Great Depression. Also, with all of the deregulation, your food won't be too trustworthy. I recommend reading The Jungle by Upton Sinclair for the rest of the food prediction, though it won't get quite that bad.


Where will all of that money go? Much of it will continue to line the pockets of the 1%, however we will also continue to squander it on foreign conflicts in the Gulf states, the various *istans, and abroad in general. Even if we actually pull out of Iraq and Afghanistan, we will be drawn back in to try to protect the price of oil and to continue to fight terrorism. Gas prices will still suck anyways though.

The environment will continue to be trashed as we burn fossil fuels. Fracking will go very unregulated and will destroy many local environments, homes, and properties. Water will become scarce in many countries and the earth's temperature will continue to rise. You know about hurricanes Katrina and Sandy? More major storms are coming, due to climate change.


All in all, I predict dark times in our digital age. The environment is toast, a new SOPA will appear, dissidents will be labeled as terrorists, and we'll hit crippling economic times. Of course, there are political cycles too. Historically, recessions seem to occur in 10 year cycles, civil rights sway back and forth like a dance, and people die in the great war of ____insert_war_here____.


That being said, this assumes current rates of political trends and no disruptions to such (which are actually quite possible). The cycle can be thrown off, digital freedom is not dead yet, and it isn't too late to save the environment if we all work together. I just doubt that we are willing to resolve our crises until they get bad enough to put aside our differences of interest to all take the same side.


If this was tl;dr for you, then the short answer is that I predict things will get significantly worse, but it's not quite doomsday yet. People will die, the rich will get richer, and policymakers will still be working hard for the lobbyists rather than the people.

Seem like a realistic and very scary truth i see to the statement somewhere people in the usa have been more preocupide with well stupid stuff then our goverment they omly pay attention when things like what happend to day in colorodo and try to make that situation there benifit i fear our future it doesnt look good

It's only preparations to eliminate 2 very specific countries.

Guess so. hmph

Guess so. hmph

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If we're talking about the USA in particular, I think that their era is ending. Unless a complete miracle happens (which I doubt), at some point China is going to call in the debt and the USA won't be able to pay. That'll probably be the beginning of the end of their power in the world stage.

Your proble right but I doubt china is ready to do that because the usa is there biggest buyer and if it goes down then there economy goes down with it.At least thats what i think?

For the US:

massive losses of rights and freedoms across the next 100 years, resulting in totalitarianistic tendencies and human rights abuses mirroring China, stalinist russia, and North Korea in 50, unless there is a major political upset.

Additionally, a major economic collapse in 20 years or less, rivaling the great depression. This one, like the recent one, only recovers to stagnation and no decent new jobs.


For Powerful countries other than the US:

Most of the current US allies, particularly ones that follow similar policies (most of Europe, Australia, etc) will follow the US into the economic and opression trap.

Most of the current exploited countries and developing countries(technically allies, but screwed over), will continue to be screwed for a while until the powers lose the power to keep doing so effectively.


The current US competetor countries such as China, India, and the like will get better in both economy and political freedom, though they'll still probably be pretty bad at the second of the two.


Then in about 100-150 years, everyone will start running out of resources as global warming, and simple overuse come into play, thus turning evey country equally terrible.

Then a lot of people will die, probably many of starvation or lack of drinkable water.


Then the survivors will be able to form a managable sized country with strict but fair population limits to prevent the same disasters from ever happening again. But, due to human nature's dark side, it too will be corrupt, and will oppress people, assuming that they ever actually form it. They might instead end up breaking down into smaller tribes of less than 1000 people each at that point.


Long story short, the slow but total failure of society as we know it after a few turnovers and uphevals.

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Up we go.

GoodAfternoon Minna-san ^_^

I'm a grade schooler I just want to say that i think even if we have leaders in our country know a days we still have conflicts with each country....other country claiming territory, over using authority and power, poverty...leaders? we shouldn't be so dependent with them we should act on our own to unite this world and to stop its destruction...

oh i think it's not related with the topic

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Okay, way more than 85% of the top threads are saged. I had to bump a lvl 60 thread just because of all of the saged ones. I think it's closer to 95%.

Also, bumping this thread. First of all because divine has awesome threads always, second of all because this is a actual intelligent discussion

Just what the fuck am I talking about haha.


What I meant to say was.

This planet has a lot of resources and I think we should spread them more equally. Does anyone have any ideas on how we could better share our resources with those less fortunate?

increase manufacture increase trade flood the market that should drop prices making it more easy on those less fortunate but we know we were not going to do that it's all about the o mighty dollar good thing im fortunate lol

Bump! This is actually interesting!

We should realise why we born. For what reason we living right now.

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Honestly, I don't think anything will get done if the Democrats and Republicans don't figure out some sort of compromise with each other. But that could just be wishful thinking on my part.

It's about time some rules be changed. It shouldn't be 1 player playing both sides of the game.

I think that if we fix our elections (Campaign donations, STV voting or similar) then we could do a lot better than we are. Our tech sector and colleges are still fine, but our lower level education needs a start-from-scratch overhaul. I'm really worried about how the transition into an automated world will go, see this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Pq-S557XQU), but think that if we can work with the government and effective solution can be found.

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USA looks like it's still one of the most powerful countries, when I look at it from mine. I think your government does a pretty good jub covering your status from other countries (at least those less powerful) unlike ours.
i don't really have an opinion about economy and politics, since the country that I live in is really not giving any good example on it, but I think that it is time to change something. Well, I have only 15 years, I can't really do much, but maybe someone here could.
Anyways, fight! Verbally, not phisicaly! The countries should not invest money in stupid and dangerous things like new military weapons, but make peace with other countries!

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Well, India might become a large powerhouse in the near future.

I believe that the scenario in future years/decades is pretty clear. A dominant ideology creating more and more inequality and trying to take away population's critical and logical capacity by 'selling' moral and vital values through he media.

Most people nowadays have lost their abilty of reasoning by their own (even though some of then don't even know it), and political powers only make it worse by supporting the dominant idology. Not to say there's some others problems like resource shortage, racism and other kinds of discrimination, poor educational system (overall), violency and so on. All of them as a result of this social and economical system.

Quite frankly, I think we're more bound to end up in a dystopic world than in a decent world.

The world is being messed up for the generation that follows; all the problems of today will be dumped onto the up and coming. I think we should be scared, but also prepared.

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I predict a complete and total breakdown of society in the bear or distant future in which there will be no rule of law and only those with the guns, ammo, and food will be able to survive. Most people will die horrible deaths due to starvation. Disease, and the onslaught of riots.

Well aren't you a ray of sunshine?

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